2 Thessalonians 2 - The Apostasia or a Departure? 

Folks, we need to fast and ask God for his Armor and also for THE GIFTS OF HEALINGS🙏

Another gem from God's ascension gifts. Les Feldick is a great teacher!

Nope! The "rebellion" (Gk. ἀποστασία, apostasia) means: a departure from the TRUTH, from true doctrine, a departure from the faith. It does NOT mean: a departure from the earth, as in a Pre-Trib. Rapture. The word "caught up" in 1 Thes. 4:17 is a totally different word and means a totally different thing. You're equating the two words, and making them synonyms; they are not. Apostasy means: a falling away from the faith.

You and me both pal. God bless.

Most Independent Baptists teach this.

You are very welcome and God Bless.

I'm a little confused about this because I thought Paul said the Ressurection of the dead happens first, and then those who remain alive at the time.of this resurrection will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air? The only place in Scripture where I see anything pertaining to a resurrection of the righteous dead is Revalation 20:4-6. The people sitting on thrones and souls under the altar and it says this is the "first resurrection". We know the second resurrection is for the damned after the 1,000 years and they go to the lake of fire, with this said, where is the resurrection at the rapture he speaks of if the "first ressurection" happens during the tribulation and actually its the tearing of the 6th seal. Is there another different 1st ressurection at the tearing of the first seal as this kicks off the 7 year tribulation and the rapture suppose to happen here? I'm not seeing a ressurection here...I hear of a rapture being taught, but no ressurection that precedes this.

Me too.

Thank you I love you big brother. Will we remember our earthly family who rejected Our Father's Gift of Grace? When the Holy Spirit convicts a person of sin and they reject Him does He stop?I know the Holy Spirit gives godly sorrow, true repentance.

Thanks for the sub and keep watching. I think it's near.

Thank you and God bless

You are very welcome and God Bless you too.

Thank you! Excellent teaching

Thank you Ron. It's amazing what a little grammar and staying in context will do for one's understanding of the Bible. 🙂

Thank you and God Bless

Which means the apostasy and man of sin will be revealed first, then the day of Christ will happen and the rapture!

I believe they are the same event, but from different perspectives. The two perspectives are the two contexts; speaking about the world and speaking about the church. For it is the blessed hope for the church. But not blessed for the world. Cheers

“The church fathers” are unreliable for anything. Paul tells you in his own words that even while the apostles still lived that the church was in apostasy. This is also shown in the letters to the churches of Revelation. Basing an argument on any writings subsequent to scripture is a fools errand.

Amen, and God bless.

@Candy Clews Isa. 26:19 is the raising of the dead. Isa. 26:20 we come to HIM, hidden for a little while in the many mansions while the indignation aka tribulation passes. Isa. 26:21 HE leaves HIS place to punish the inhabitants of the earth aka Day of the LORD.

@@rickhuntling7338 I have come to believe that Is. 26:20 refers to the Jewish catching away, also seen in Rev. 22:5.

Sorry but we will know who the man of sin will be. Forget the gibberish. Revelation and even the words of Jesus, peter, paul, and John agree.

@@AmandathePandaBooks. You will know who the man of sin is, after 1st Thessalonians 4:17 has occurred.

My pleasure and God Bless

Kind of like the descriptions of Jesus himself.

except that there is nothing in that chapter to suggest that, what is Paul referencing in this chapter if you keep it in context? the rapture! there is nothing in this chapter to suggest Paul is reverencing leaving the church or faith

That’s where he lost me… An attack on the perfect word of God KJV.

@@EzequielAdames I also love the KJV and I think "falling away" is correct from a different point of view. When we are caught up and receive our spiritual bodies the earth will fall away from us!

The KJV is speaking the truth. This passage is addressing the fact that the day of Christ hasn't happened and they haven't missed it. The falling away is spoken of by Jesus and Paul to Timothy. This man is wrong.

You are so welcome, God Bless

Michael., I changed "day of Christ" to "day of the Lord" based on the context as that is what the believers believed hence the request for confirmation from Paul. Also, the phrase "falling away" is found only in the King James Bible as all previous English Bibles used the word "departing." I did not change "words in the Bible to align with a doctrinal position" as the Rapture is not dependent upon 2 Thess 2:1-3. You might be better served asking why the King James translators changed "departing" to "falling away"?

@@rightlydividingthewordoftr9434 apostasia the greek word means a departure from one's previous standing. Defector. Yeah? It has more in the meaning than simply departure.

Amen brother!

You are very welcome

Amen. This redefining of what is obviously meant as foresake is the absolute worst example of manipulation of the word for a desired outcome.

Thanks, and God bless

Thanks brother and God Bless

Today we have the 27. of december 2021.

@@bernhardbauer5301 Im praying for you and your family! The new macaroni virus is spreading at an increasing rate and lock down's have already across the world, a sister had a dream that we leave (Rapture/event) when the 2nd lock down happens. I am watching and expecting for the rapture/event to happen on Thursday December 30th/Friday December 31st on the last day's of the year 2021, Jesus said he would raise us up on the last day: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40 A few brothers and sisters have had dreams and confirmations from God that the rapture will happen on a Thursday! And some have had dreams of the rapture happening during new years eve when there are fireworks! December 29th/30th/31st is: - 222 weeks and 5 days since the Revelation 12 constellation sign on September 23rd 2017 - 221 weeks from when former U.S president said "this is the calm before the storm" on October 5th 2017 - 990 days from the Notre dam cathedral fire/collapse on April 15th 2018 - 707 days (101 weeks/23 months and 7 days) from when they moved the Doomsday clock to "100 seconds to midnight" on January 23rd 2020 - 702 days (100 weeks and 2 days/23 months and 2 days) from when they first announced the Abraham Accord peace deal on January 28th 2020 - 471 days (15 months and 15 days) from when they signed the Abraham Accord peace deal on September 15th 2020 - 345 days (11 months and 11 days) from when U.S president Joe Biden was sworn into office on January 20th 2021 - 231 days (33 weeks/7 months and 17 days) from Ascension day on May 13th 2021 - 222 days from when they signed the unilateral truce deal between Israel and Palestine on May 21st 2021 - 202 days from when the man was swallowed by a whale (sign of Jonah) on June 11th 2021 - 200 days from when the new Israel prime minister and government was sworn into office on June 13th 2021 - 189 days (27 weeks/6 month and 6 days) from the Miami condo collapse on June 24th 2021 - 147 days (21 weeks) from former U.S president Barack Obama's birthday dinner on August 6th 2021 - 108 days (15 weeks and 3 days) from the 1 year anniversary of the Abraham Accord peace deal signing on September 14th 2021 - 102 days (3 months and 11 days) from when La Palma volcano began erupting on September 19th 2021 - 91 days (13 weeks) from when U.S president said "6 minutes, 6 days or 6 weeks" on October 1st 2021 - 41 days (1 month and 11 days) from the longest blood moon eclipse of the century on November 19th 2021 - 19 days (456 hours) from the mid-feast of Hannukah on the Essene calendar (Calendar that Jesus followed) on December 11th 2021 (A sister from "Holly2moons" YT channel had a dream that "time was off by 456" - 13 days UNTIL the 4 year anniversary of the false missile alert in Hawaii on January 13th 2022 - 134 days (4 months and 14 days) UNTIL Israel's 74th birthday on May 14th 2022 I believe that 2021 is the year of the rapture because on my channel there WAS a video of a sister that had a very detailed vision of the rapture/event and she said that it will happen before 2022 (RU-vid deleted it), I believe God is waiting until the very last possible day of 2021. She says that the rapture/event will be a bright white light lasting a few minutes and we will be transformed into our heavenly glorified bodies and brought up to heaven. I give full glory to God/Jesus for this comment because I have been praying everyday for God/Jesus to reveal this information to me so that I can share it with everyone. "If God/Jesus is everything, then we must be inside God/Jesus, and God/Jesus must be inside us" We will not experience any pain during the rapture/event. See you in heaven! Pray and repent of your sins to God/Jesus, not to be saved, but to show respect to God/Jesus and strengthen your relationship. God/Jesus loves everyone of you like as if you were the only person in the entire universe! Please share this message with your family and friends! God bless you and your family!

@@Moto4Christ what do say now when nothing happened and the dates past us by? Only the FATHER knows the day and hour. Just be happy with knowing the season brother.

Amen, I can't wait!

By departure it is not concerning the rapture to meet the Lord in the sky, but a falling away from the faith on a global scale first that allows the antichrist to come out of the midst of where he is into being to then reveal himself. In studying the greek through the Holy Spirit concerning this passage, it has come to my attention that a part of the passage in particular vs7 of the line: until he be " Taken" out of the "Way"is mistranslated, confusing greatly the meaning of 2 thess2:1-8 causing a plethora of false interpretations. Although I would say for many out of ignorance because every english version i have come across has universally used the mistranslation either deliberately out of there own presuppositional agenda and or in lacking wisdom ,copy and pasted the previous work of others without investigating in the greek. the Great apostasy of the Faith must occur first before the antichrist comes out and reveals himself so the climax of the fallen away of the faith is what keeps the antichrist from revealing himself. but the focus of Paul is not who or what is restraining the antichrist but what and specifically who is restraining the 2nd return of Messiah Yeshua. sense the letter concerns the parousia of Yeshua and our gathering to Him while reminding the thessalonians of that appointed time because many were sending written reports that the day of YAHVH had already occurred. A.T. Robertson explains that an idiomatic use of the neuter singular may appear when an abstract expression is used to sum up a whole mass of ideas or expressions. (A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, Nashville: Broadman, 1934, p.409 So Paul was reminding them what restrains(neuter) as a whole concerning both awaiting events and who restrains(masculine) in particular is restraining Yeshua's return. which is the mystery of lawlessness already at work and will not come to its climax until the masculine restrainer comes out of the midst of where he is(not taken out of the way) to then reveal himself. then Yeshua is no longer restrained to return to then destroy the antichrist. Which will be as a thief in the night during the 6th vial to catch the unforgiven off guard. How 2 thess 2:1-8 should be understood with the correct translation is: 1.Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the Day of the Lord is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that Day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as god sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what restrains(neuter vs.3) that He(Messiah Yeshua) might be revealed in His time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he(the antichrist) who now restrains(masculine) will do so until he comes out of the midst(of where he is). 8 And then shall he be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

@@josephkuzara2609 a falling away from the faith will never reveal the man of sin.

@@normmcinnis4102 According to 2 thess 2 it does, as the climax of the falling away of the faith and not a secret invisible rapture. must come first to then reveal the antichrist according to Paul. This passage is concerning the coming of the Lord as The Day of the Lord and our gathering to Him and what awaiting events must be fulfilled before His appointed time to return. Paul addressed the the restraining events as the neuter katechon and in particular the masculine katechon to which changes focus upon who is the climax of the works of lawlessness, who will not come out into being to reveal himself until at first the apostasy of the faith. Which will be a great global apostasy that is linked to the satan appointed antichrist being giving his power and throne to wage war against those who hold to the true testimony of Yeshua(Gospel) that is not explained through PSA . called the great tribulation. Which is the wrath of satan through his appointed instrument against the saints of God who remain on earth even during the events of Gods wrath yet protected because we are not appointed to Gods wrath to come.

@@normmcinnis4102 according to Paul it does, you go against Paul who said specifically and plainly that the falling away must come first then the reveal of the antichrist. The falling away is of the faith but of a greater and global scale that is linked to the antichrist. The antichrist would already be existing but wont be active proclaiming to be God until that global apostasy. These two events restrain the 2nd return of Messiah Yeshua. You being most likely pre-trib are confused by Paul thus re-interpret his plain teachings.

@@normmcinnis4102 according to Paul the Apostle it does. As the greek says a falling away occurs first, then the reveal of the antichrist. So stop believing falsely. The fallen away is a portion of the climax of the works of lawlessness that is already at work. But wont be fully fulfilled until the reveal of the antichrist specifically appointed by satan, giving his power and throne to him to wage war globally upon the saints.

I think it a toss-up as to who departs or falls away, and where they go. In Eccl. 8:1⁰, it says of apostates that they came and went from the place of the holy. In I Jn. 2, it says the same, that they went out from us because they were not of us. But I will look more at this tomorrow, Lord willing.

Ecll. 8:10.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UOa8m7hOaXs.html

I posted Dr. Andy Woods video about apostasy (falling away/departure)

Yes, I have see Andy Woods video and agree with his premise that apostasia means departure and the passage supports the Pre-Trib Rapture.

@THE FORM OF SOUND WORDS MINISTRIES its a translation from Greek to English. The KJV is probably the best one IMO. The Falling Away translation of apostasy was 1st put into the KJV. Previously translated versions prior to the KJV had this translated as "departure".

@@Im-so-ronery Read this and you'll see the influence on the KJV's translation en. wikipedia. org/wiki/King_James_Version

@Lusie Toumi the "mystery" is the church. We are busy working against iniquity as we speak as long as the FATHER "letteth" this work is what withholdeth the son of perdition and the principalities under him. when the day and hour arrive the FATHER will say SON go get your bride and we will be taken out of the way.

The man is very wrong. This is a false hope. The falling away must come. The context of this passage is about whether they missed th Rapture. Paul is assuring them that they in Thessaloniki at that time didn't miss it, because first must come the falling away and the man of sin. At that time the church was still in it's infancy!

@@messagesforourtime9306 Yup it's a false hope to dupe the church in the critical hour we are heading into. Many will fall away under the persecution.

You are welcome Gayle and God Bless.

Yes Gayle, that is why we are blessed to have people like Dr Paul to explain The Bible simply and correctly :)

Amen to you.

If the church is gone the Antichrist has no enemy to exalt himself against. This man is wrong.

I appreciate your comment, Ro. God Bless.

#BlackSwanRevelations I'm with you on that (despite what others want to think). Falling away, I believe, refers to people being decieved and start believing a doctrine that's not what the Bible teaches. Plus, if you look at the wording in 2 Thess. 2, it says that 'the day shall not come except there be A falling away first, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.' If the 'falling away' there refers to the Rapture, why does it say "a" falling away instead of "the" falling away? That's why I kind of like how the NIV puts it, saying "rebellion".

Yes I agree. God forbid that I would change the meaning to fit my doctrine. If falling away doesnt mean falling away than what do I have when I open my Bible? Do I need Greek to correct my Bible or do I need Greek to prove my point if I can't prove my point in English? Lets let the Bible say what it says until it says something that doesnt support what I believe. Having said that , I am not against this brothers teachings. In fact this is the only thing I've been in disagreement with so far. But when you start saying the Bible doesn't mean what it says you can make people doubt their Bibles. Lets remove this clause from Gods word so we can understand Gods word. Really? Thats the first time I've heard that from a Bible believer.

@@ReligiousG You are correct and so is the KJV. My 1828 Websters defines falling away. So what is the point of this video? That if my KJV is wrong here it may also be wrong in other places.

Your view clearly suggests that the 8 previous Bible translations starting in the year of 382 are wrong when translating “apostasía” as “departynge”; I’d rather trust the much older translations.

Thanks and God bless

The falling away is due to the apostasy of the sacrifices beginning again which the ac will eventually cause to cease. At the midpoint the desolate abomination by the ac happens. Grace & Peace

Paul uses the term "last days" for the church also in "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come." - 2 Timothy 3:1 KJV. As the world scene grows darker in preparation for the Tribulation, that darkness will spill over into the church as Paul warned Timothy. God Bless

Robert Breaker also wrongly teaches about Day of Christ

Even if you go with the "falling away" translation, nothing in the word "apostasia" tells you what is being fallen away from. Mr. Breaker is only guessing or assuming it is a different point of view on the timing of the Rapture. That might be his opinion but without scriptural support. Yes, the confirmation of the covenant begins the 7-year Tribulation and the Antichrist proclaiming himself in the Temple is 3.5 years later. Don't read verses 2 and 3 into the same day. They must be understood with the text in Daniel chapter 9. Taking a single verse and trying to make a doctrine from it is very dangerous and will lead you to error. The day of Christ is the Tribulation as it is Jesus Christ who opens the 7 seals unleashing His wrath upon Israel and a Christ rejecting world. You make several good points for the interpretation of "apostasia" as "departing" instead of falling away. You said "Being caught up and falling away are 2 different things." You are correct. But being caught up and departing are synonymous. Here again you are assigning a meaning to the phrase "Day of the Lord" apart from the context in which it is used. If you don't stay in context, you will be confused. Here are some addional passages on the Day of the Lord which support it referring to the Tribulation. "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty." - Isaiah 13:6 KJV "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." - Joel 1:15 KJV "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." - Joel 2:31 KJV "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?" - Amos 5:20 KJV God Bless.

In the video, you mentioned that if the Day of Christ was referring to the rapture, than they would've been happy and excited about it instead of worrying. I do agree with that. However, I started thinking about it earlier today. In the King James, it has the day of Christ 'is at hand', though in the New King James, it has the day of Christ 'had come.' (had come being past tense, whereas has come would be present tense) That made me think that, if the day of Christ does refer to the rapture and the Tribulation was happening already, they were worried that they were left behind and missed the rapture. Which is why Paul assured them that the day wouldn't come unless a falling away happened first and the man of sin was revealed. Not entirely sure how relevant that is, if it is, but it's a thought I had.

@@ReligiousG I agree with the grieving being left behind. Paul said remember what I preached last time being the Rapture and the day of CHRIST that follows. Isa. 26:19,21 is in perfect harmony. You and the Doc. need to stop preaching from the "Late Great Planet Earth" Dan. 9:27 error. You call Messiah anti-Christ and some contrived peace treaty with Israel allowing them to build a 3rd Temple. It's nothing but dung that Hal Lindsey invented out of his money grubbing head. Go to the Hebrew text and try to find the definite article for people or prince, it's not there. Hebrew grammar and English both require a definite article or a proper name to be the antecedent to "HE" in 9:27. The antecedent is Messiah not the anti-Christ prince. It's irrefutable when you apply the rules of Hebrew or English grammar to "a prince". Dan. 9:27 reads like this. And HE (Messiah) shall make a covenant (Isa. 55:1-3) with the many (people, tongues, nations and kings) for one week (Passion week) and in the midst of the week (Wednesday\Thursday Passover) HE (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (IT IS FINISHED) and for overspreading the abominations (40 years continued sacrifices) HE shall make it (Holy City) desolate (void of sacrificing Jews) even until the consummation (70th week) and that determined (Gap) shall be poured upon the desolate (1967 Jews pour back into the Holy City). With eyes to see you can even identify the trigger for the 70th week in Dan. 9:27 "s". The abominations are plural in 9:27 but JESUS says abomination singular. HE is pointing to Dan. 12:11 which KJV in error adds "sacrifice" when it was already in the verse sitting there "abomination". There will be no Temple built, no peace treaty and no anti-christ sitting as god on the Temple Mt. Ezek. 28 the Prince of Tyre did everything the son of perdition will do without a Temple and the same satan was the culprit. Ezra 3 sacrifices were preformed with just an altar built.

@Tiger Lee Revelation 5:10 says " And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth", so this can not be the Body of Christ singing since we are not a nation of priests nor will we reign on the earth. Revelation was written before the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul, so we can not be mentioned in Revelation.

@Tiger Lee I believe the scattered Jews are singing that God has taken them out of every tribe, nation and tongue and made them priests and kings over the earth. The problem is that does not happen until the 2nd coming, so it is a bit confusing to me why they are singing so early in the text. Perhaps Revelation is not as linear in chronology as one might expect. It should be noted as well that it is the four beasts and the 24 elders singing, so if the 24 elders are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles, then it makes perfect sense since they represent and are members of Israel. However, the patriarchs and apostles are not taken out of every tribe/nation, so perhaps they are singing on behalf of Israel.

Hello Shawn, Please be careful not to take an isolated verse out of context and try to assign a meaning apart from its context. Read verses 3 through 10 and you will see the context. Resting with Paul and the other saints is the comfort and assurance that when Jesus returns with His mighty angels at the second coming He will take vengeance on those that persecuted the saints. Payback will come, so rest and be patient. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" - 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 KJV God Bless.

I think rest with us means that at the catching away, the body will no longer be corruptible and vile, but finally at rest . Also compare Is. 26:20.

It doesn't...This Is deception

Tried this with claude 3 and apparrently "apostasia" can be used to mean departure from a physical location but claude is an LLM, it can and has given me flat out incorrect, outdated or contradictory responses. But in any case Apostasia primarily means falling away from previously held belief, or rebelling and cannot mean departing in the given context of that scripture.

That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition,

Hello Marion. Yes, it's a shame what has been done to the word over the recent years. It's difficult to get the idea of falling away from the faith out of peoples heads to look at the true and historical meaning. Thanks and God Bless.

The born again cannot backslide. That is almost exclusively an Old Testiment term. But Pentecostals who insist on free will use it much.

​​@@rightlydividingthewordoftr9434 could it be that many of the church doctrines taught today have very little to do with what the scriptures actually offer.... just as in the case of yourself, here you are trying to correct all these false beliefs and teachings that are flowing from the pulpit almost every Sunday and taught in mid week bible studies.... Few believers have real biblical understanding today the teaching is so far from biblical... "Christians" flock to churches that tickle the ears... They will not tolerate sound Doctrine... Maybe this is another reason why Jesus will say to some "i never knew you" The fundamentals of Faith have an order but when talking with a so called "believer" they render each verse as they personally feel it should be, omitting God's order. We have a multitude of Bible versions and church leadership encourage those in the congregation to choose the one they like. I was listening to a young woman a few days back and she was explaining why Eve ate, her statement was: because Eve "knew better" than God and decided it was right for her to eat. How could she possibly come to this kind of conclusion??

The Holy Spirit is taken out of the way and His restraining of evil stopped. He steps aside so to speak for the Antichrist to rule. God bless

@Simeon Wellbeck Amen. 100% correct. The "mystery" is the code name for CHRIST Church. The Church is what withholdeth the son of perdition and our war with his principalities. The Doc. misunderstands verse 2nd Thess. 2:7. The mystery aka church is already at work on iniquity by spreading the Gospel. Only YHWH letteth us continue our work until HIS will be done at HIS day and hour. "HE" is a code name for the Body of CHRIST. "until he "mystery" be taken out of the way.

That’s right, Thanks

Yep

He would be teaching against what Jesus said in Mathew 24 about His coming (after) the tribulation.

@@sandrakruger2547 How so?

If there was something like the rapture before the tribulation and Paul taught this he would be teaching oposite what Jesus taught in Mat 24. Jesus answered the Disciples question about His coming that He comes after the tribulation.

@@sandrakruger2547 Do we know when the 7th Trumpet sounds in relation to the 70th week of Daniel?