@@codycooper2261 Joe West actually was fined by the MLB for what he did in this game! Should've been suspended, but at least there was some accountability here
Two guys that couldn't find their own ass with both hands and a flashlight. I tend to think Angel Hernandez is the worst but Jaba West maybe a close second.
They were both balks. He brought his knee back across the pitching rubber on both moves. And both ejections were mandatory. Arguing a balk and throwing equipment are automatic ejections per the rule book.
@@Rowgue51 those were not balks. He brought his leg toward first base. He also turned his body. You can tell he pivoted because his move to home has him move forward with a full body motion. He clearly didn't move toward home. He used that exact pick off move his entire career.
@@nickk6501 They're balks because when he raised his leg he brought it back over the pitching rubber. Once that happens it's a balk if you don't deliver a pitch.
He certainly did when Mark Wagner ejected Jose Quintina which caused Hawk to furiously lash out which led to him being reprimanded by then commissioner Bud Selig
+CHilla415 Can't tell the first one (not a good camera angle shown), but the second was definitely a balk. He didn't step towards first base, but more towards the dugout (between home & first).
The first balk is very tough to tell because of the camera angle. The second balk shows Buehrle from behind (3B angle). His R leg does NOT go directly (or anywhere close to directly) towards 1B.
Notice Angel Hernandez AND Joe West on the same umpiring crew. You walk out on that field and see those two and you know someone's getting tossed....like gravity.
Both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. Best.
Please, explanation: why were those two called a balk? I know balks are something not many people can spot, and I can spot quite a few...but this time I'm lost. My bad, so perhaps someone could please help me out here?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a balk is when a pitcher, during mid-wind up of a pitch, suddenly changes to throw at a base runner. And, correct me if I'm wrong, both times Buehrle was in the process of winding up, leg up. I understand the rule of "must step to the plate" but there are literally hundreds of pitchers who do not go through a nice big wind-up and then just turn to "pitch" at the bases.
I have been an umpire for 30 years at all levels and have known Joe West for a long time. Something has come loose in his head because Joe is doing things that he used to teach us younger guys not to do! I've been to two of his clinics in Cocoa Beach at Joe Brinkmans school about 20 years ago and Joe was calm, cool and copacetic most of the time. He clearly baited both the pitcher and the manager. As for the balk, I didn't see it either and I have been known to be pretty picky about balks. On the first one, the runner was clearly caught off guard and that one could have been a balk. I really didn't get the angle that Joe had, but the second one, with the replay from behind him CLEARLY shows it should not have been called a balk!! He stepped just slightly to his right and that was okay. There is an "imaginary line" that runs from the pitchers plate to the halfway point of the baseline and the left hander can't swing that right foot over that line and then step to first base. That is a balk. I didn't see him come close to crossing that line. I really don't know what has become of Joe because of the past few years, he is getting less respect from the players and fans alike. Now, having said that, I do understand the the White Sox commentators calling the game are going to be rooting for the home team, but they do go overboard with their criticism of Joe. I would tell them to "just announce the game guys, just announce the game."
+The Lowmein I know what you are saying, but it would be hard to draw a chalk line on grass. It's still judgment and, since the review rule was put in place a couple of years ago, the games are getting a little longer. Baseball is a pretty slow game as it is without having more possible reviews.
Sorry, the only time you use paint is on artificial surfaces. About 99% of baseball fields in this country are on natural surfaces, so they would use chalk. Paint wouldn't last any time on clay.
Yep, the foul line on the grass past first and third base is painted to the foul pole. But, in the infield, nothing is painted, the basepaths are chalked.
Jim Joyce is one of the best umpires in MLB. Even as a RedSox fan and RedSox Nation member since 99, I can admit that the obstruction call during the World Series was a good call. Sadly, even though he's been voted by players as the best umpire 4 or 5 years in a row, all fans are going to remember is the Gallaraga call.
Greg B Yeah, Jim joyce is a class act and a great umpire. Yeah, he made one really bad call to prevent a perfect game, but unlike most umpires, he owned up to it and apologized and was very upset afterwards about it.
The first one was tough to see from the camera angle but the second was not even close - BALK! And Guillen got tossed because you can't argue a balk and he was sheltering his pitcher.
You're partially right. Motion toward the plate or any motion associated with throwing toward home that is used to deceive the runner is a balk. There is no "45 degree rule" in any rule code other than NCAA... and it is only a comment in the NCAA book.
because both WERE balks, if you bring your foot past the knee you MUST come home(1st balk) when you go to 1st you MUST step towards 1st, halfway between IS a balk
@@davidrooks3274 you're correct that both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. Best.
@@brady13001 i agree that both were balks, as I stated, the angle was wrong on the first one, but as to the 2nd one, it was a balk due to where his right foot landed, there is a line at 45 degrees, the foot lands less than 45 degrees it is a valid move, it lands more than 45 degrees it is a balk
David Rooks I know about the 45 degree line I’m an umpire. One of those balks was due to his shoulder. That came straight from Jim Evans a few years ago an umpiring camp that those trying to get into college ball go too.
Both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. .
@@brady13001 Although I do not agree, that was the next explanation of this incident that I have ever read. Kudos to you. Also, I'm just a fan, and you've umped as high up as the minors, so I admit that you obviously have more knowledge than I do in this case.
When I slowed it down, I do think the 2nd one was a balk. Looks like he did cross his back leg with his front and start forward towards home. It's close but I do think it was a balk.
The only possible way I can see a balk is if his front foot crosses the 45° line, meaning he stepped more toward home plate than first base. Other than that I don’t see anything. And he’s the only one with that view and can call that particular infraction if that’s what it was.
the fuck was the last commentator, "lucky he wasnt tossed last inning" WHAT! Look up controversial baseball calls and Joe West will have his name in all of them
I know the angle of the camera may not be the best, but you cross your leg, you have to go toward the plate with the pitch. I think that maybe what the ump was seeing. There was another pitcher that had a similar move (Randy Johnson?) that I remember hearing a commentator making that statement.
There should be some sort of "citizens arrest" thing. Where if the umpires are being like this, the players/managers can eject him. At the *very* least the other umpires can step in and do something lol I mean, come on... "(wave, wave) No no, go away. I dont want to talk about what I might have done wrong. Youre not going back to the dugout? (ejects the manager)"
Biggles McBumflap seriously? you people have no clue on the rules and think you do better job here my question if you can why aren't you out there doing it!
I don't know about the first one because of the angle of the replay. The second one is a balk all the way he was going towards the plate and then his throw went to first.
Both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. Best.
Both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. Best.
Mike Hawk I wonder how Joe west got past 2nd grade if he can't read. A balk is when a pitcher starts their motion and stops it to throw out there runner. All Beurhle did was stick his hand into his glove. If I was Beuhrle I would have punched west's ugly face to disgraceville
I thought it was a balk, he never comes completely set. He's still fidgeting up until the point where he decides to toss to first base. Coming set and the pickoff/ pitch attempt have to be 2 separate motions
@@wantahappymeal I did state why they were balks, when you break the plane of your knee with your foot(this means you bring the foot back past the knee) you MUST come home, and when you go to first you MUST step TOWARD first base, the first balk he brought his foot past his knee then threw to first, that's a balk, on the second when he went to first he stepped halfway between first and home, this is also a balk, I suggest you go back and watch the video again
David Rooks the first one wasn’t a balk. Even the announcers and literally everyone else knew it wasn’t. His motion was towards first base. Complete legit pitch
@@ogbobbyjohnson175 sigh, the move towards first wasn't why it was called a balk, try to keep up, when the pitcher starts his windup, if he brings his foot past his knee he MUST go home, that was why it was a balk
Announcers are correct. Joe West is a joke! He is like the old man that lives on the street and tells everyone that you can't park in front of his house. The league should kick him to the curb ASAP!
@@durielroberts360 Hawk Harrelson sounds like a drunk they pulled out of the stands, and he seems to have about the same level of baseball knowledge as well. Just because it's not balked consistently doesn't mean it's not a balk. After West balked him once, Buehrle should have been more careful.
Both were balks but for different reasons. The second one was a balk because his leg came back. the first one was a balk because of his front shoulder. Nothing to do with his leg. The 1B & HP umpire are both looking at the leg and the front shoulder. The moment the front shoulder starts coming towards the plate he also has to pitch. A lot of fans think that for lefties the front leg is the only thing umpires look at. It is a huge point of emphasis but it's not the only one. The front shoulder which (I'm not being a smartass here) most fans can't see and dont pay attention too is just as relevant. Again I dont mean this to be a smartass just in response. It's not an obvious balk to a lot of fans (even those who are lifelong fans) but to Umpires because of the way they're trained they were both obvious balks. PS - I've been an umpire for 15 years. 2 years in the minor leagues, and since than I've done high school, adult and independent league ball. Hope that helps. Best.
People are saying this is a balk. Its not. 1. He did not cross his foot over the rubber. 2. He steped to first he never went home. Thats just an awful call on both of them.
1st one I sure can't tell, nothing about it looks like a balk in the video we see (but I suspect he crossed over given the reaction of the runner). 2nd pretty clearly is a balk - he crosses over, and gains ground towards the plate so you could get him for either one.
