I can’t fathom how Marc manages to keep himself from saying “Let’s hit the road Jack” (instead of “Let’s get this car on the road, Jack” or so) every time. The willpower! Probably takes ice baths every morning and sleeps on a bamboo mat on a tiled floor or so.
It always kills me when reviewers talk about how the car needs to be more refined (i.e. needs to ride smoother because it’s too jarring) and so the manufacturer refines it to make it smoother and then the reviewer says it lacks soul because it’s too refined. I love Savagegeese but all reviewers do it.
I hate refinement in a car, the most amount of luxary I need is a couple of occasional use back seats, the option to put the roof up, and able to stay below 3.5krpm at 80mph. Beyond that I don't give a shit, it's a car not a living room. Now all these modern cars are heavy and fat and mostly ride too high and are boring as shit to drive, eugh.
This perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of car ownership and expectations in 2021, Everyone wants their car to be do everything, but also expect it to be completely unique and the “ultimate driving machine”. It’s unreal, if BMW gave it more “soul” then people would start complaining about how they’re spending this kind of money on a car where you can feel bumpsteer.
Cant believe I’m saying this, but this thing “only” weighs about 200lbs heavier than the e39 M5, and the CS is supposed to be about 300lbs lighter than the M5 Competition. Pretty impressive for this giant ass car.
I agree. With how heavy modern cars have become, this thing is relatively svelte, especially considering the addition of AWD. I have a tuned S6 that is fun but is ~4,500lbs 🐽
I don’t want drama or a car that beats me up on a daily commute or 500 mile family trip, But I guarantee that when driven the way the M5 is capable of being driven, it WILL put a smile on your face. It will also put a smile on your face just to look at it in your garage every night, knowing that you own it.
@@TheNondiscriminatory as is the case with many modern cars in general, to be honest. Computer systems, synthetic oils, adaptive dampers, LED lighting, etc are increasing the long term cost of ownership for even the more reliable brands and models these days.
1:27 I wouldn't know if to first dial Richard Business, but I'm guessing that's after Chad Merger had figured out the Max Transactions. You guys are clowns! :D
@@DiscoFang Does he have a little clip with his business cards with him at all times? Even at his daughter's birthday he has to drive to because he's been divorced twice?
Sometimes at the end of a hard day you just want your car to pick you up and carry you down the road effortlessly and other times you want to smash everything across the intersection as you eventually make your way to a challenging mountain back road. The " soul " thing can be a little over rated in real day to day driving. This seems like a very very nice, do it all, executive daily.
"Sports car" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this cant be any further from a sports car, search up what a sports car is, this is barely a gt car. A boat cant be a sports car there nothing sporty about it, the older m5s were sporty, but this thing is a rolls royce sports edition
@@Sideways_Singh What are you talking about :D its around 100kg heavier than the E39 M5.. thats basically a passenger (+his/her baggage) difference which isnt a lot for whats still a ROAD car. Its a lot in race car, but since this is just supposed to be a fast road car that you can take to the track from time to time and do some amateur fast laps - its fast and light enough to be a sports car. F1 cars got extremely huge and heavy (for what theyre supposed to be) and theyre not any less "race cars" than they were ever before :D And sports car is just that, its not something youre going to really take racing..hell most of these wont see their top speed and a good percentage of them will only sit in the garage until they get to their 3rd-4th owner who is finally going to trash it around like its supposed to (with all the interior thrown out :D)
I think there's no more overall "BMW guy". You're either an old school (2000s and older) BMW person or a new school (2010s and newer) person. I don't care at all about this car because I know it has no soul even before you guys reviewed it. Hopefully they will build a nice car again one day, but I will say at least this doesn't have that disgusting new grille.
Agreed, but I’d say you could categorize old BMW as 2013 and older, and new BMW after that. 2013 was the last year of the E92 and the E82. These cars still had great steering, standard inline 6 motor in the US, and were compact. For the 5 series, I’d say the E60 was the last to fit that focused on the driving experience feel. Doesn’t matter which E60 you drive, they all will have that connection to the road that’s totally lacking in the F10. It was very comfortable, yet it still was rewarding to drive. That’s what characterized the 5 series.
Agreed! I am in the camp that says BMW lost their way in 2002 with the e65/66 7 series. My household has had or has an e39 M5, two e38 740iLs, an e36 328is and an e36 M3. We primarily love the styling followed by how incredibly the cars drive with the great character in their execution. I've driven a lot of the newer ones. Most notably I've found the turbo models are impressive, but they aren't fun as there is accessible power everywhere in the rev range that you never have to work for. There is no difference in driving it at low rpm or high rpm as there isn't a reward. The raw unrefined feeling is what makes cars exciting to drive. I chose a used 2013 Mini over a new 2016 Mini at one point primarily because it was more raw and the older ones turbo lag provided way more character. Right now I daily drive a 99 M3 coupe, and don't have in mind a car that I aspire to own more. It excites me ever time I drive it.
I think this applies to previous M5s, but of course what was once comfortable and masked speed is now borderline visceral. IMO the goal of every M5 has been to go as fast as possible, as effortlessly as possible, so that the driver is not fatigued. You're tired after driving a sportscar fast for an hour. You can do multiple hours at triple digit speeds in one of these and feel good afterwards, without falling asleep like you would on an S class or a 7 series.
@@kenim Jakub is the most annoying. Yuri is cool. But Jakub is so pedantic, can't ever be wrong, takes things really personally. I don't think they would EVER have the dynamic that throttle house does.
This review is so spot on! I actually get all of your criticism.. And actually understand all the people that really get this. The statement with the supercar performance but no time for a racetrack was so accurate. Keep the good work. This channel is amazing!
"Mechanical perfection" in my mind means a car that doesn't break down and is just getting started 10 years or 150K miles in its lifecycle. A car I can pass down to my son or daughter with full confidence that it will give them at least another 10 trouble free years. Especially if I paid $134K for it. That just ain't the case with BMW's. For friends family and coworkers that own BMW's, taking in their cars for constant repairs is part of their normal routine. Nope. Not if I have to pay $134K...
I've learned that if a car looks plain and conservative when new it will age well in the future. Examples (at least for me): '90-'94 Lexus LS 400 '86-'94 W124 Mercedes E-Class '91-'98 W140 Mercedes S-Class '91-'01 Acura/Honda NSX '04-'08 Jaguar XJ Every Porsche 911 '00-'05 Bentley Arnage/Azure/Continental R '92-98 BMW E36 3-Series (I personally didn't like it when released; thought it looked plain and hated the enclosed headlights instead of 4 individual round headlights of almost every BMW before it. Funny thing is I STILL hate the new enclosed headlights found on modern BMW's today. What's with the "trapezoidal" headlights? To me a BMW should have 4 round headlights, a classic kidney grill, a distinct cutline front to rear along the side, a relatively upright greenhouse, a nose down stance and a Hofmeister kink. These are essential and non-negotiable. Abandon these and you lose what makes a BMW look like a BMW. I'm not too sure this BMW M5 falls under this category though. It's styling looks derivative and doesn't really say "BMW". Front and rear facias have the feeling of the Japanese or South Korean makes BEFORE they developed their own distinct styling (especially Hyundai/KIA pre 2011-ish).
It’s strange how the M5 has become a vehicle of seeming contradictions; it’s wildly fast and capable, but borders on soulless.I spoke to a colleague who has one of these on order, and his comments align perfectly with the analysis in the video: he works a lot, has a decent (30 mile/day commute), wants something elegant but fast when he wants it to be, views manual boxes as inconveniences, and has two kids to move around, so a 911 isn’t viable.
Lol I have been shopping exactly the same 2 vehicles and just made a decision which ended up taking 2 years with ordering cars these days. I’ve had the M5 for exactly 1 week now. The brand new Porsches are hard to come by the way I want - there is 1 locally that is $245,700 and the dealer is only accepting offers that are almost $100,000 over MSRP. I’m not interested in spending $245k much less the market adjustments. The M5 seems like a bargain in comparison. Im happy enough with it for now but I won’t drive it daily around Miami. I have an suv for that. Are you considering one?
I drove a previous version of the M5 competition and it was quite frankly just an amazing car for its size and power. I did not find uncomfortable on the substandard roads I found which I drove it. I did find the M2C a little too abrupt on those same roads and something I would probably not own is an everyday driver. I find the breath of its performance envelope the most remarkable thing. Well one might say that it is still laser focused on one end or the other of the spectrum, it's still encompasses a wide variety everyday real world road traffic situations and it's performance envelope. I did also drive and m340i with everything on at the same day. For half the price it had about 90% of the performance. But for interior room and luxury and upgraded materials, the M5 competition stood alone. It will be interesting when I get a chance to drive the current M3 competition and see how it matches up. Thank you for the Bowers and Wilkins graph. You're the only guys who think audio performance is something worth measuring when one spend thousands of dollars on a car audio system.
I've had a '19 M5 Competition for about 4 months now and I agree with you. Could the ride be smoother over rough roads? Sure. But I definitely don't find it jarring or that it "beats you up" in Comfort mode. Sport Plus it does and should. And I just have the base Harmon Kardon stereo which is ok, but I do wish this one had the Bowers and Wilkins upgraded stereo. Oh well, just means the car does 99% of what I want out of a single do-everything car instead of 100% lol.
Was Jack supposed to talk about the Bowers and Wilkins stereo and then just didn't? Or was it edited out? Because the charts were up there but Jack didn't mention the stereo. It's been covered in other BMW reviews so I can see not mentioning it.
Wait, my math says that 135-86=49. You paid 49k for a new 530 M Sport when there is a shortage of cars because of the chip issues? You need to redefine greatness because you have been inducted into car shopping Hall of Fame.
@@KC-bv9kf Just because there’s a chip shortage doesn’t mean you can’t get a deal on a car. I paid about 6k off sticker for my MAZDA3 turbo just because it was “used”. Though with only 1200 miles, it might as well have come off the showroom. Companies still need to sell cars which means there will always be discounts.
So, what I gather from the final thoughts is that the car is so well sorted that there isn't enough drama in it for these guys. I own one and I don't disagree honestly. It's an excellent car but it isn't "an event to drive" like some others are. Personally, I'm so happy with it at my current stage in life and there isn't anything else in the segment I'd rather have. I think this review is nitpick, but accurate. Love the content!
Fully agree. My F82 M4 comp was more fun to drive (louder, scarier) but I needed something more versatile and the M5 has that given me that in spades whilst giving up nothing in terms of outright performance. It’s a brilliant brilliant car.
I leased my first M5 last Monday - I’ve had it a week and already put 329 miles on it! Washed it and back in the garage it goes to stay clean for the week. I pulled the Mazda back out lol. I’m pretty happy thus far. Waited a year for it to arrive at my dealership in north Oklahoma City.
I never feel that it's too stiff on highway driving. I'm not super impressed about the lane keep assist. It works places it should not, and does not work where it seems to be a no-brainer. I still have it enabled, but feel it's 55/45. The safety when useful is worth the annoyance of trying to override your input. Main complain is the weight under braking, it handles way better than you feel comfortable (granted you keep the 4S * (BMW) tires. Amazing mileage for such a car (seen a high of 600 miles / tank (all highway / flat driving). The real life noise outside is so much better than most people have impression off from videos. Second is the size of it (which you can't really blame the car for ...), it's just too large for narrow roads when driving active (some road it just stresses me out even at reasonable speed, where my 911 shines and make me want to drive faster). Yes, the M3 E92 have way WAY nicer steering feel, but right now the M5 F90 with 4S(*) take corners faster than the M3 E92 with 4S (non-star) tires.
Sure I would. I came from BMW 335i and cross shopped AMG GTS, F-Type, C8, and C63. I ended up back in M4, though. Just because you have a preference, doesn't mean you don't give other brands a chance. I can see this being a consideration for many (or rather select few) that shop at this price point.
@@leok7193 I shop at this price point and have owned several BMWs including an M3. For a bit more money you can move up to a much better German car of which I’m lucky enough to own several currently. I would bite on this if it were under 100 but not where it sits given potential maintenance issues.
Yea....and more importantly it's depreciation curve. There's Porsches that just don't at all depreciate this much. Of course if all this is penny change, including the depreciation for someone, then who cares?! Someone need to REALLY care about cars to be shopping at this segment even if it was at great financial cost to them.
@@aboudiardate True, but I was hoping for a bit more apples to apples. For example, does an Audi S6/RS6 or the AMG E53/63, or some Panamera variant, suffer from the same problem? Was the Lexus GS-F the one that got away? Are there some super sedans with character and fun? What are they?
i sat in tuned m5 where all the people in radius 500m where looking like crazy ..it sounded like crazy demon with ak-47 ..i bet this guy deffo change his mind that car has soul
@@salalajko1 there is a tuned m5 in my parking garage. It definitely sounds like a demon with an AK. I don’t know if soul is the right name for something that demonic but it definitely is the anti tesla
Another great review as always! Would like to see you review the Porsche Panamera turbo for a reference to the Bmw M5 and compare the cars to see if the Porsche ups the ante?
@@ascott2168 I think that's Jack's influence. He's much more into Bimmers than Porsches (not that he doesn't respect them, too). There are also just a lot more BMW models made.
The mix of subtlety and brutal performance was what made this car so good at the cannonball. If not for a hostage situation that closed down I-15 for 5 hours in the Cajon Pass in California: this was going to be the first car to drive coast to coast in under 24 hours. Sadly, they ended up at 25 hours, 57 mins.
Super editing job! Great discussion of what the M5 C is, and isn't. On another note, at about 50K cheaper, the surprise and joy on your faces was more pronounced with the Red Eye.
What's with the "trapezoidal" headlights? To me a BMW should have 4 round headlights, a tastefully modern interpretation of the classic kidney grill, a distinct cutline from front to rear along the side, a relatively upright greenhouse, a nose down stance and a Hofmeister kink. These are essential and non-negotiable. Abandon these and you lose what makes a BMW look like a BMW. Hell if they could somehow bring back the forward leaning nose (aka shark nose found on the E24, E21, E28 etc) I would be ecstatic.
The M5 kicks ass, and takes names. There were some hiccups along the way, but the F90 and G30 are VERY good. In the realm of twin-turbo V8 super sedans, you'd struggle to find one as well developed, consistent, and yes I will say "reliable". Not to mention it is absolutely timeless, just like every M5. That's the biggest selling point for AMG and BMW M for me, and it's something audi in particular has not figured out.
An absolute brute of a machine. But with such overly busy roads 24 hours a day, I'm not really sure if these cars serve much purpose unless you take them to the track. A BMW with a straight 6 is always the best option.
Mark kind of expected the German Engineer to be familiar with hellcat and jump around in praise. Comes to show the middle american center of the universe mindset. Its not bad, just gives unique perspective in the reviews. That bias makes the channel good I guess. However, 9 out of 10 car people would choose M5 vs the Hellcat. The M5 can raise your heartrate in plenty ways. Any day.
15mpg city out of a 617hp car really isn't too bad. And it easily gets over 20 in highway driving. Lots of other V8s with way less power get the same or worse fuel economy. But no it's not going to get anywhere near the mpg of the 4 cylinder 5 series counterparts.
The perfect all around car and the best new super saloon performance wise and design wise. Imagine removing the limiter and going 210 mph in this almost 2k kg beast...
I had a G80 M3 and now this. I love the M5, but I felt more connected to the M3 with the steering. In the M5 tho, you feel like the Master of Earth. It just depends on where you're at with your driving life.
136K!??!?! Who the hell is buying these things? Dogecoin millionaires? "Entrepreneurs" who couldn't tell you a lick about their business but can flex online on social media all day? Hmmm......
Because when you start a family and fitting baby seats in a 911 Carrera gets stupid this is way more comfortable and practical; including something to write off against your "registered business."
@@hugostiglitz8465 Because it's...also a mid sized 4 door sedan? My comments aren't anecdotal. A lot of 911 guys are not going from a 911 to an SUV. Getting a SUV because of a kid is the epitome of sheep stupid. LOL
The base price for this is 204k USD (converted from euro) if you live in Austria. What are you even complaining about - you can get this one and 2 Civic Type R for good measure :D
The M5 appeals to people who look at cars the same way "audiophiles" look at speaker systems: Specifications, design perfection, flawless execution. But in the quest for this, as Mark said, you can lose all of the enjoyability of actually listening to music, or in this case, driving.
@C J B Fair point and definitely one way of looking at it. In my opinion, being an audiophile tends to revolve around enjoying the equipment, more than it is about enjoying the music (my initial presumption from my comment).
this m5 is probally the most reliable modern m5 to date think about its paired with zf8hp and those are bullet proof the engine on the other hand might not be the most reliable but bmw have develop and improve this power unit since the f series.
I dont know why people expect an M5 to have the driver engagement of a miata or a 911 for that matter, the M5, the extreme version of the 5 series is exactly a super sedan, a family car that can turn into a compete hooligan when you want it to. Since the e39, included, M5's are extremely fast family sedans. For driver engagement look elsewhere.
Hard to love or justify at this price for sure, but they get cheaper quickly. So while it may never be lovable, it may be justifiable - in a couple of years !
2019 Competitions with Carbon Ceramics (128k+ new) are going for low 90s, upper 80s where I live which is still a lot but much more accessible than 136k.
Yes I remember years ago asking a BMW M engineer in seville Spain what he thought about a Nissan GTR & he acted/ asked “what is this” meanwhile it was breaking records 🤣🤣
Like Jack I truly respect and enjoy BMW but like Mark I wouldn't buy one again. A 2008 N54 with plastic coolant hose connections ruined the brand for me.
Strangely BMW make one of the most characterful and simple current day motorcycles in the rninet, IMHO. Would be great to see them take some of that retro design ethos over to their car division.
soulless - you could see it in your faces when you guys were flooring it like silverbacks. mark cracked a slight smile and jack was straight faced the entire time.
I don’t often agree with Mark. But having owned the M5, the lowly base model, with only 600 hp, there is one word that describes it other than straight line acceleration, and that word is boring. I traded a Porsche 911 for it and it was a mistake.
It is, you won’t get the aesthetics, handling, or prestige of the M5, but for the price difference and in terms of price to value .. the M550i might actually be the better car in that respect
Why I love my 5 series. It is understated yet beautiful, it is comfortable after very long trips, and it has all of the capabilities I love if and when they are needed. To be clear, mine is not a competition, and it is my office - the most effective yet fun one I’ve owned.
The $/excitement ratio of “modern” BMW’s is low. This is coming from a long time and current BMW owner. Driven a fair amount of M cars, friends owned them, but never bought one because the cost. Can buy 2 great cars for the same money.
I think people really don't understand how electronics and computers have made vehicles dramatically safer, not to mention how much pressure drove political concerns into development of these systems. If you want a product that is unrefined and raw you're welcome to find something like a Viper gts, etc. Why you would buy a new car anyways is beyond me, everything actually exciting has already been made.