After 15 months, 12k miles and 9 track days, I've decided to keep my BRZ a while longer. But it wasn't an immediately obvious decision. Follow me on IG: / zygrene Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com
Yup. That's nice he came around. Everyone has different tastes but I def prefer the 86 to the S2000 (a car I don't enjoy, the steering is numb but sharp and I don't like the sensation of sitting on or near the rear axle with a long hood). The S2000s I have driven feel snappy and the exhaust sound isn't pleasant to my ears (sacrilege I know)
@rybhugo this is an extreme example to make a point. When you sit in a long hood car with the seat near the rear axle, the axis of rotation is ahead of you (unlike a C8 Corvette or even a Type R). You face a lot more movement sideways and G loading for a given speed. It's like sitting towards the edge of a merry go round vs the center. It's why those kinds of cars feel snappy (the rear tires have to deal with higher G load for a given speed around a turn). Worse, it feels like the front end of the car is in a different zip code compared you where you sit (as an extreme imagine the folks who steer a fire engine from the back). This would be obvious if you drove a Supra and a C8 side by side. They compensate for this feeling but making the steering ratio unnaturally quick. In that regard, the 86, Fl5 and GR Corolla would feel much better as there is gap between rear axle and driver to accommodate rear seats and in case of C8 engine.
this is 100% how I feel with my BRZ. I feel it is the perfect car that you can push yourself as a driver but also get A LOT of daily driven miles as it doesn't feel fatiguing to drive it as a daily. I really enjoy driving this car and it always makes me feel alive anytime I get in it and take it places.
I wanted so bad to try something new after owning a first gen BRZ, but after looking into 981s, s2000s, BMW m240is etc, put down a deposit for a 2023 BRZ. Nothing else comes close as a proper dual purpose "drivers" car.
I was all over the place looking for a fun sports car. Came to the same conclusion. Porsche you cant get anything new at all. let alone taking into consideration cost factor. so I settled on a 23 BRZ Premium in black 6MT. loving it so far. a ton of car for $30k.
Managed to find myself a zero-mile base GR86 at sticker price and shipped it from Idaho to California. My M2C has been on a battery tender for a few weeks while the GR86 is getting its break-in miles. The GR86/BRZ is arguably the most car for the money in the fun, usable, track-worthy category. Few contenders under $60K. The GR86 replaced an Evora 400 in my garage. Big shoes to fill, but gosh this GR is a real gem! Didn’t think I’d buy one, but I missed my ND2 Miata track build and wanted something a tad more substantial (albeit with a less favorable suspension architecture). Big smiles for the twins!
Hey man I’m a salesman for Subaru and own a BRZ limited manual as well and you have a 5 year or 60k mile power train warranty, the 3 year or 36k one you’re referring to is the “bumper to bumper” one. So I hope you can be more happy knowing you have 5 years or 60k miles, whichever comes first, on the engine :) I also am happy knowing I have a warranty despite the rtv issues. I was gonna get a tech to drop my pan and do it for me but changed my mind since the warranty is in place. Love the vids! Nice to see someone mature owning the car and not just slamming it and putting 25mm spacers.
@@VidNibs short answer no, I haven’t seen any official recall or service bulletin but if you do have an issue and the service department at the local dealership is giving you push back, id just not waste your time and take it straight to Subaru of America and make a fuss about it. I can’t speak for Toyota but as far as Subaru goes they’re really concerned about the customer experience and ownership and tend to bend over backwards rather easily for their customers.
Great analogy and advice. I did my first track day in my 23' BRZ with an Oil Cooler, Motul Break Fluid, Motul Oil, and Project Mu pads. I'm coming from tracking an STi, this is my first FR car. I'm glad I didn't modify the suspension or tires as you're spot on about finding the limits. I almost spun out 4 times but was able to save it as the car is controllable even for someone new to FR. I'm going to install coilovers, wheels and tires. The car needs negative camber for sure to really showcase its capabilities. This car in my opinion is by far the best sub $50k performance car. For me, it's engaging and way more fun than AWD or FF. Don't get me wrong, I love my STi but there's something special about a lightweight FR car. Regarding the cars power. Yes, it's not the fastest car out there and it's a momentum car. However, it's still fast on the track and has a ton of long term potential. I still remember drooling over the idea of owning an integra Type R back in the day and that car had around 200hp. I'm not a phenomenal driver but I was pulling faster lap times than cars with way more HP than me.
Appreciate listing the mods for beginners. This is my first RWD car and been following your ownership of this car. You’re one of the few that convinced me to purchase one. Love the videos and keep it up 💪
I have a 2023 GR86 Base 6MT. Previously had ND2 and don’t miss it. As a daily driver it is fantastic. Fun, nimble, able to get some joy just street driving. I have the AWE exhaust too which greatly improves the experience. I don’t have plans to track it now. I have a 2021 Mach 1 that I’m tracking instead. If I didn’t have the Mach, I probably would go the route of making the GR86 a dual duty too. Pads, fluid, oil, apex wheels, 200TW tires.
Thanks for all of your videos. I've missed very few. Will be trying my hand on the track this summer in my BRZ, and have all of the stuff I need for the initial mods.
9:55 Been following this channel and you're one of the people to convince me to get my 23' Premium GR86. This timestamp specifically follows the same route I'm going with the car now. I'm waiting on my Remark Axleback to come in next week, and then I'm focused on getting better pads and rotors with a fluid flush and putting DOT 4 in. So my use cases sorta follow yours (80% daily driver, 20% cruising/track days). Thanks for uploading this informative video!
Great video. Perfectly matches my ownership style of my BRZ. And thanks for clearing up the GRC situation. Im thinking if maybe GR Yaris was originally the hoon vehicle for rally, but once carried over to Corolla chassis it became less fun and more numb due to longer wheelbase and heavier structure.
Lets put acceleration and speed aside. I'll one up the 50k price and go to 70k. What new car south of the C8 and Cayman in price has better steering and handling (both 7/10 and 10/10ths). Not talking about raw grip, practicality or lap times but refering to a drivers car. I think the number is 0. I've driven and owned performance cars for 25 years and the 86 I rented goes to the top along with a Lotus Evora GT and an E46 M3 CSL as cars I enjoyed the most. Infact, the C8s steering is a lot worse (but the car is absolutely amazing handling and hustles like nothing else). The SS1LE is a performance beast but heavy, steering is not as good, limits are high to enjoy on streets and feels very enclosed. I'd personally buy the GRC though coz I need 4 doors for my kid and the AWD for the rainy, snowy hilly area I live in. The Corolla is also a lot stronger/robust car (it's based on the Toyota TNGA architecture), matters if you have a little one.
M2 or F80 M3? I think you'd have to be partial to the BRZ to chose it at 50k. Ive driven a e46 M3 also and not sure how you could possibly mention a lowly 86 in the same sentence. Yes the 86 handles well but that's about it. A Miata also handles well. Power to weight and engine sounds does come into it, and at least on sound the 86 and GR86 is pretty meh.
Granted these reviews are weighted toward subjective experience, but that's what make the Zygrene channel great to watch. It's fantastic when you discover your auto purchase exceeds your expectations, but 10 fold when you got it for less than equivalent. Thanks Fenton.
I drove a first gen brz and it reminded me of a blend between my first gen Miata and my 86 rx7. It drove really nice, wasn’t violent at all, and easy to get the performance out of it without killing you. Awesome Video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Fenton! Perfect wrap up and really helpful for those getting into the platform! Still gotta get my BRZ prepped for the track soon! Also for anyone considering PPF… I experienced rock chips on the front bumper within the first 750 miles 😔 , so do it ASAP
Honestly I really appreciate this man, I have been having very similar thoughts especially with the supra manual, but I love my BRZ and how fun it is to drive, and can't beat the price point of it vs replacing it. I appreciate the mod info too, have been wondering what to do since I got the car
Great video, thanks for sharing your experience. Been driving and enjoying my ‘22 BRZ in China, Dongguan, now at about 4’000 km and just started to explore all the fun and potential. Agreed it is the unbeatable daily for driving enthusiast ;)
I'm at a little over 1 1/2 years on my 2022 BRZ Limited 6MT w/ just under 10K miles - still obsessed. There's literally no competitors in a new car for 30K with passable cargo space and RWD, it has one of the lowest CoG of any production car, it has the Toyota D4S intake plus many modern, but not over the top, nice interior functionality. As for mods I've done what you've laid out minus the oil cooler, I might go that route eventually but I'm not sure I can afford tracking my daily driver...already had one mishap - made me think twice about taking on the added risk! want to try autox tho!
Appreciate you sticking with the GR86/BRZ platform! Coming from a '17 Elantra Sport 6MT which was good fun daily (basically a budget Civic Si), it never had the playfulness of the RWD BRZ. Was considering Elantra N/GR Corolla/Type R and other more "practical" options but the dealer markup was ridiculous. After months of searching found a '23 Limited 6MT BRZ for MSRP that someone had ordered and bailed on. A new car for the warranty and known service history would be better then searching for a used one to track later on. Curious if the dealer would void your engine warranty for doing your own oil changes putting in 5W-30 vs 0W-20. Look forward to more ownership updates!! Side note on MPGs: I'm convinced that bigger displacement 2.4L engines just aren't as fuel efficient as smaller 1.5-2.0L ones. My 2.5L Mazda CX-5 doesn't get the best gas mileage for it's class. And my 1.6T Elantra would easily get 30+ MPG on the highway doing 70-80MPH. So if I wanted to conserve fuel in the BRZ/CX-5 keeping it 65-70MPH will help. Any higher spirited driving, it's a small price to pay for smiles per gallon 😊
The bigger displacement does play a part with the lower mpg ratings, along with it being an NA engine which aren't the best optimised for EPA test cycles like modern turbo engines are. Another factor that hurts the BRZ/GR86 on EPA mpg ratings is the short gearing (which also makes it a lot of fun to drive). I've been averaging around 26 mpg in mixed suburban driving on my 2023 GR86 6MT.
Great piece. I really appreciate your honest insights on the various cars and tips for modifying your BRZ for track use. Great points on being able to enjoy the car on the street without being insane. We always have to remember we're sharing the road with people of a vast range of driving capabilities. I had to cringe watching you following those dump trucks though. Fortunately your car made it out unscathed!
Great 12k update and I couldn’t agree more. I daily 19’ golf wagon 4motion manual live in nyc. Have gr86 for weekends. In the list for fl5 type r at msrp. Will be getting g87 m2 manual most likely last model year since bmw always bring the best specs after lci. Planning to keep all 4 cars. Was also in the list gr Corolla core at msrp but most likely will go with the type r
Nice review.. Been following you for a bit now. We have similar tastes it seems lol.. People, if you can do more than one car, do it. Don't compromise and you'll be happier and less prone to switching it up so often.. I'm guilty of that myself.. Have your fun/track car and DD.. and the DD doesn't have to be pricey.. mine will be around 10-15k..figure $30k for your fun/track car and you're under $50k total..
You made the right choice keeping the BRZ. GR Corolla will likely come alive in the aftermarket or with future upgrades from Toyota. No reason to be an early adopter if you are underwhelmed with the current state of that platform.
Was looking forward to this, just started but as always I'm sure you will go in depth. Oh, and FYI, keep the car and I'd love to see an adventure on extracting the most NA performance from it and tuning with ECUTEK.
I know you probably want to wait a bit longer to be outside that engine warranty, but I just think there is so much more BRZ content you can deliver and we all trust you'll do it right!
I was wondering if you had any experience in the 230i? A used 230i is actually around the same price as a new GR86 which im cross-shopping and feel like it could be a strong competitor value wise. One of the things that makes me lean towards a 86 however is the reliability and maintenance costs being lower. Seems like the twins would hold up and hold their value for a much longer time. Thanks for the vid 👍
Great mods recommendation! I will say oil cooler is recommended but not required if you have oil temp monitoring when tracking. But it does depends on the climate your track time is, especially if in cooler climate, the oil cooler can be a PITA in the winter to get the oil temp up when just driving on the street. Also oil cooler bring risks of oil leaks
The color fittings oil cooler deletes the factory oil warmer so it takes longer to get to operating temp, but the Jackson Racing oil cooler keeps it, so it doesn't take longer to get to operating temp
Can you please tell us what kind if fuel economy you're getting post break in? What is your mix of city / hwy driving, and overall MPG? Would be really appreciated!
Hey Fenton! If the Mx5 ND2 (hypothetically) have the same practicality as the BRZ, would you go for the mazda or still the twins are more fun to slide?😌
I’ve only had my BRZ for two weeks as of right now and I’m guilty of babying this car. I waited four months for this car to arrive and my purpose was to not take it out and push the car to its limits. It has everything I could possibly want out of a daily driver. Power when I need it, and looks, this thing is absolutely beautiful. I’m in no means a car enthusiast. I do want to install an axel back exhaust and an air induction system so that it sounds as good as it looks. 😁
My short list at the moment: BRZ, ND2, and WRX. Have you had much seat time in the new VB chassis WRX? I've heard very good things (looks notwithstanding) about their handling and performance potential. Thanks for all your great, in depth content. As a former S2000 owner (2004 AP2 in NFR), I've really appreciated all of your comparisons and insight.
If it's a weekend toy, get the miata. The engine and transmission in the nd2 is far superior to the twins (gr86 owner here). Wrx is nowhere near as special with the sedan set up.
Someone's brand new GR corolla caught fire at our winter HPDE in the rain, on the first session! Hopefully a one off situation. Anyway I know you had issues with the 987 Cayman S on track, but how does this car compare to that? I just love the 6 cylinder sounds, although I know it's not gonna be as reliable in the long run.
Wait why is the brand MX-5 Miata not on your list of current manual, RWD, driver oriented cars below $50k? I know you mentioned the NB but I am thinking about the new 2017 and up models I guess.
Im still stomp between getting GR86 or BRZ. I've somewhat test drove the GR86, but not long enough to enjoy it due to dealership being greedy about me putting miles. Ive been asking for BRZs but each time i get a handle in one, a deal either been pending and sold. What to do? GR Corolla, Z, Type-R, GR Supra are way overpriced for me to afford. Thoughts? I want thay old school rrar-wheeel drove feel again.
I know it’s not a good comparison but would you consider trading in your brz for new ctr if you can get it for close to msrp? I wanted to buy the brz and I drove it few times but I just feel that it still needs little more power. Additional 30hp might be nice. The steering felt too light/numb and throttle was not very responsive. I recently drove a 22 si and brz back to back. The tactical feeling of shifts and the feed back from steering was very good on the si. The throttle response was much better. Brz is a faster car but I felt more lively and faster on the si. Of course it’s fwd vs rwd but si was a pleasure to drive and still fun. Just wanted to get your thoughts and maybe you can do a comparison in the future since they are very similar in price. Thank you
My 2012 gt86 didn't have much understeer in fact it had loads of un wanted oversteer. Can anyone who had an early frs/86 comment on if the GR86 is similar or more understeery?
this & the engine or lack of common/practical swaps is what’s keeping me from the 86 platform. Realistically, no practical lift back coupes in the current market at all has me feeling very lost for options.
Another great video. But isn't the M2 available for well below 50k US especially used? As 30k new car I can see the appeal of the GR86 but not so much at 40k or more. My jaw dropped when you said you didn't miss your s2000 anymore after driving the GR86. High praise but I can't believe it until I drive a GR86 myself.
I think if that 30k range is your ultimate budget, the twins are hard to beat. But in my case two characteristics of the car are very much pushing me towards the supra: 1) around town the car doesn't have enough lowend torque. So you're left with no choice but to rev out the engine in first gear every time, which wouldn't be so bad if the engine didn't sound so unrefined. 2) After a year of ownership, the economy roots of the car are really showing themselves. This car was always too loud inside, which I could always forgive it given its purpose. But now I have a new rattle popping up every few weeks, making the car feel incredibly cheap. I do have to say that despite these faults, I don't think any car will ever feel as good the 2% of the time I'm on a backroad. Too bad the car doesn't fully deliver the other 98% of the time.
The only thing missing from this car is a sound system, and maybe a sunroof. I wonder how much it would cost to replace eight speakers and if possible the amplifier, does anyone have a guess?
Yesterday I drove a S65/DCT swapped 135i BMW that my buddy just picked up. Recommend that you try to get some wheel time in one of those. He paid about $35k for it and it’s incredible as you can imagine.
I feel you re: GR Corolla. Equally disappointed with early reviews as it turns out not to be the homologation champion that is the brother GR Yaris. Toyota prob wanted to capitalize on the GR hype for US market gearheads in their 30s looking for a more connected driving experience while appeasing the spouse and wallet alike. Could have been the Lancia Integrale of the 2020’s but no… Other options? Golf R or S3 (w/ drift mode) and stage 1 tune? F87 M2 comp or RS3 for a bit more $$? Low miles Focus RS? Still, the new BRZ is more smiles for 15-20k less, with which you can support the add’l vehicle for heavy lifting (family, Costco runs, etc), say a mk7 gti. Yes, the mk8 R and Focus RS are touge surgeons that retain daily practicality, the M2 such a solid all rounder (and FR with more useable back seats). I sure wrestled with these things but ultimately opting for the ‘22 BRZ and now having lived with it for a year was most validating. It’s like owning an older gen cayman (987) with none of the worries that come with that. Would I have loved 2 more cyl and an extra 50hp? Sure but at the end of the day (and with the subtle mods you mentioned) the BRZ is bar none. And as very likely it will be the last of its kind, I’m keeping it for the long haul!
I have been cross shopping all the cars at this price point and use-case for the past month. I have to say, the Civic Si is really speaking to me. I do not plan to track any of the cars I buy. I just want something sporty for the road that is fun to drive yet still practical in the way a family sedan would be. I think it is shameful the GR86/BRZ do not offer adaptive cruise yet they do with Auto, that really turns me off about the brand. The Civic Si has those features including lane keep assist and is a manual. Another thing is the fuel economy how did they make it so bad in the BRZ? I don't understand! Now yes if you plan to track the car (which I think is actually a pipe dream for most people) the BRZ/GR86 are the no brainer options.
@@drivingpsyche if you are trying to get more grip for street driving you are probably going to fast on legal roads. You are also not getting actually grippy tires unless you get semi slicks or full slicks. More grip = more noise more wear more paint chips. Zygrene is right in chosing a tyre that is right for the road, which is very different than a track tyre.
IMO sensible daily/beater, then a more specialized/raw weekend/track car. Any dual purpose will be a compromise. Going with a 2 car solution opens up a massive world of possibilities for your fun car.
@@OVER5TEER Everyone has a different take here. While a beater and specialized car is a great combo for many - the alternative says: Drive a car you enjoy everyday (however you can afford that). I know I for one have no desire to drive a Prius or Corolla ever just for the purpose of having a beater/daily.
@@On2thakneppz1 I don't think i would necessarily go to the extreme of driving a prius or corolla lol. There's a lot of middle ground between a track tuned sports car and a prius.
It’s a good car no question, but when you start going 40-50k you can get a Camaro SS, or Mustang GT with a performance pack, both have back seats, warranty, and way more power/performance
Biggest problem with those cars is that they are heavy and fast, meaning they'll burn through tires and brakes way faster than a BRZ if you're tracking them regularly.
Fully agree though I am still dealing with ticks, rattle, however they like to describe it and of coz dealership doesn’t know how to fix or diagnose. Wish I can give it back to gunma Japan and have them fix it. My only obstacle is dealership-SOA. Already argued that I also had the first gen and has to do with the body, inner panels and readjusting the glass. I might end up just go to respected body shop or auto repair to do it since my new car is just rotting at the Subaru dealerships. Yes I am talking about you Subaru of America. You guys are useless and Subaru Japan as I understand is different how they operate.
I have a weird creak/rattle coming from the clutch every once in a while. Once I push in the clutch, it goes away. Other than that, the car has been rock solid. I hope you get your issues figured out.
@@Barbwire710 mine is on the passenger side like several other brz/gr86 between dash, headliner, door, a pillar, glass and etc so yes it travels. I see many posts of some techs or diy’s where people really had to go deep to fix these which proves SOA guides and policies for their techs useless. It already answers that they don’t know what their doing or searching for. They won’t even take out door panels and etc to search for manufacture defects. Again is a new car and this is how Subaru treats their customers. Anyways don’t want to keep ranting on this for over a month but glad yours is not doing that.
Is the Elantra N not the superior dual purpose car under $50k? It has huge back seats + 4 doors, and a massive trunk. I've also heard many reviewers say that it's also more fun. The extreme customization of things like suspension, exhaust, engine modes helps it have multiple personalities too.
Yup. Elantra N has way more than the BRZ for similar price. You can easily track it out of the box. You go to the BRZs tracking and they all have to have oil cooler etc. him saying there’s no car under 50k better. He’s smoking. He just hasn’t driven enough cars. 100% buyers bias. BRZ is an amazing little car but def not the best everything car.
230i M sport: so you just going to act like I don’t exist? 4 piston brakes, ELSD, 295 tq, usable back seats, RWD. Nothing? Don’t even mention my name? Screw you man! 😂
GR Corolla is a just a Corolla with a turbo. I don't get what the fuss is about, that car literally does nothing for me as a 2023 BRZ owner. The twins vs. GRC is such a wacky "comparison".
This just isn't true. People cross shop them because of the price brackets and relative lack of (JAPANESE) competition in a roughly similar price range. The GRC is NOT just a corolla with a turbo. Very impressive AWD system, with fun usabilit, a so-far bulletproof 3-cylinder with a lot more power, and still better fuel economy. Manual transmission with rev matching, and on top of all that, more creature comforts and general usability/practicality.
@@sshah2545 It isn’t a sports car. You can already get a regular Corolla with AWD, that isn’t new. And who cares about fuel economy when im taking the shit to redline. GRC is a just Corolla with a turbo, and honestly if people didn’t keep shoving this comparison in my face I wouldn’t have even taken a second look at them at all. I don’t even think I would notice a GRC on the road from regular traffic…
@moldyrefrigerator ok.. if you're going to say that the AWD in the corolla cross compares to the GRC we may need to lower your dosage buddy. The GRC is just a corolla with a turbo. The STI is just an impreza with diffs. The Veloster N is just a crapbox hatch with turbos and a DCT. You're right I suppose. The BRZ is the only purpose built sports car, but I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you. There's a line where vehicles crossover from being "just an economy car with a" to being a full on performance model in their own right, and the GRC is wayyyy past that line, whether you can see it or not. I understand why you don't like the comparison. And yet I understand why people compare it. I know that as a buyer, without a car, approaching the market with money in my pocket and no biases, the GRC would've been hands down my first choice. I couldn't find one. I ended up ordering a BRZ. On paper there is no direct comparability of these models in terms of application, but I'm just one real world example of someone who directly cross shopped them. Idk why it bothers you so much, but you might be at more peace if you consider that their timing to market, and overall objectives are similar, so people end up cross shopping. Or don't, lol Edit: btw, literally everyone on earth cares about fuel economy, unless you recline shift every shift, I'll say it again. If you do Redline shift every shift. Pre order your next 4 blocks. It'll save waiting for them.
My list of mods: none. You still can race those soccer moms in minivan and win with it stock and and you don’t need to annoy people with rev bombing people with your stupid aftermarket exhaust system
