@@volatilememory9338 it does! This test was so disingenuous. If you hold the traction control button on Rav4's it disables traction control and vehicle stability control allowing more tire spin and allowing the brake activated limited slip (or in this case, torque vectoring to work).
@@Sheepleton I am surprised he didn't try it with traction control disabled. I understand going through all the normal mode of operations first but usually disabling traction control as an attempt makes sense. This is a pretty common off-road scenario.
Disingenuous? He tried it in multiple off-road modes, and the second mode he tried that allows wheel spin is the equivalent of turning off traction control.
@@FlRiAfCeTLE no its not, we have a 2020 rav4 and I promise you mud and sand mode cuts power just like you saw in the video. Disabling traction control and vsc allows unlimited wheel spin. Don't tell me what I know.
I have a 2020 Rav4 adventure and this test exactly mirrors my results with that system. Frustrating that it cuts power to the point that you can not progress in off-camber situations.
@@matthewdonovan8346 yeah you have to hold for like 6 seconds or something to actually disengage. I’ve been stuck a few times and after taking traction off (which is pointless just cuts power) I’ve been able to get out.
@@uwhusky112 yes, but it’s typically a difference in tire compound, not the entire tread. The entire tread design is different, and it lacks the three peak rating.
I've owned a lot of Toyota, and Subaru, AWD systems. Both systems were "okay" for on-road situations, but the Subarus were always better in tougher, uphill snowy roads/driveways. The Toyota systems were always too eager to intervene, and cut power completely. The Subarus allowed me to disable the nannies, and use my own judgement as to how much throttle I needed.
The newer Subarus cut power pretty bad because of the cvt. I still love mine, but I wish Subaru would give up cvt’s in favor of an 8-speed traditional automatic.
Are you talking about old toyotas? Because the new ones are actually pretty good. Still Subaru would've been so much better if it doesn't have the cvt.
Toyota has changed its AWD system a great deal. My new Sienna is a monster once you turn off traction control, and even with it on, I’ve had no issues in up to a foot of snow with the OEM all seasons.
@@rivercitymetaldetecting9854 Yes. Unfortunately, Subaru has been forced by the EPA and less-performance-oriented buyers to prioritize MPG over performance (and transmission longevity). That the new WRX will have a specially-modified CVT indicates Subaru recognizes the performance weaknesses inherent in the CVT (but is still stuck with it).
I bought a 2020 rav4 xle premium awd in lunar rock in may of 2020 before all the crazy covid supply line craziness. Got it for 30k (which sound like a total steal now in 2022) that trim in the best value in the line in my opinion. comes with sunroof, windshield wiper heater, heated steering wheel, heated seats, leather wrapped steering wheel, fog lights, 8.7 inches of ground clearance, all weather floor mats, auto wipers, auto high beams, keyless entry and push button start, all the safety stuff is standard, but that’s every model. The only thing it’s missing from this trd trim is the bigger screen, wireless charger, cooled seats, parking sensors, trick rear diff, the different bumpers, the screen in the center gauge cluster, and the underbody protection, and other little bits here and there that don’t really cost Toyota any money like the different color trim. I’ve really enjoyed it. Put on some Bridgestone blizzak on steel wheels and it’s a snow beast. I don’t mind the smaller screen because I just use CarPlay anyways, and the bigger center screen on the higher trims really doesn’t give you anything. The smaller screen on my model works exactly the same and displays all the same options and graphics. Parking sensors and 360 cameras are not required on the rav 4 it’s super easy to tell where the corners are on the front of the vehicle, the mirrors are huge, and the backup camera has the whole rear bumper in view so you can see exactly how close you are to hitting. I parallel park the thing every day and it’s no issue. Really the main problem with the car is that some of the switch gear is not backlit at night which is a huge turn off. I hadn’t seen it mentioned in any reviews at the time I was looking at purchase and it wasn’t apparent on the dealer lot because it was day time. The switches that are not lit are most of the window switches, the lock and unlock buttons, the mirror controls, and the the buttons for the dome lights. All of these should have been lit up from the factory they are high traffic and most of them are ones that you need to be easily visible in the dark. Apparently Toyota has rectified the issue and current models have backlighting in these areas, but earlier model years do not so be aware of this when buying used. Such a simple thing, I don’t know how Toyota managed to overlook it. Otherwise xle premium trim is great value and I would definitely short list it if you are looking for a rav 4. Spring for the trd if you really want the rear dif, underbody protection, and cooler front fascia. It’s a pretty nice vehicle overall it has been great for the 25k miles I’ve put on it.
I own a rav4 in Canada and have tested it in all environments. All the modes and stuff are bull. It works best by taking off traction control and letting all four wheels rip it and should be pretty capable.
I do the same with my 2017 Tucson. Sport mode on for more torque, traction control off, lock in the central diff. If my ground clearance is ok I can get through anything.
My decision to buy the xle premium awd for 30k is only confirmed by this vid. I don’t take my car into situations off road like this. If I did I’d buy a body on frame vehicle. Rav4 xle premium has just as much ground clearance, pretty much all the same interior touches and works great in snow with winter tires. The stuff it is missing is not a deal breaker, and for most people they would come to the same conclusion. The sales speak for themselves. Most people see the value in the xle trim of the rav 4.
He did not disable traction control, or the Rav4 TRD would have easily made it up this. There are video's showing the Rav4 TRD as quite capable, more capable than any other vehicle in this segment.
I’m waiting on Toyota to catch back up on producing the adventure model. You get the upgraded AWD and up to 3500lbs towing which may come in handy if you have a small trailer or teardrop you pull camping.
Thank you for the honest off-road showing. I'm relieved that this car won't work well enough off road for me because the reliability is the only thing I like, and if it had performed well off-road I'd have been preparing to maturely buy a vehicle I didn't want and would have begrudgingly driven it for 15 years
Excellent choice. I wouldn’t touch the rav or crv. If you can check out the Forester wilderness, really sent Toyota and Honda back to the drawing board
@John Doe LOL. Your comments are hysterical. I love it. You are quite the entertainer! Are you a comedian?? 😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. Oh and thanks for trolling me. Looks like I must’ve right on things for so many comments you provide elsewhere. Thanks! Every rock star has a groupie 🏆🏆 thanks groupie
These off-road appearance packages(on cars in general, not just this RAV4) are for people to look cool at the Target, Trader Joe's, or trailhead. No one is actually taking this shit off-road.
@@mrjjthor Well in Canada at least, the pricing is set so that if you want to pay for a limited (boring granpa look IMO) you can have this ''TRD'' trim with all the same options but better looks. so it's a decent choice if you wan't a rav4 AND all the options.
And this is EXACTLY why I think putting that badging on it is an insult to the true TRD trims. Outside of badging and underbody protection, it is pathetic! Spend the money on the hybrid and you will find it will tromp that obstacle with ease. You don't get the same gears, underbody protection, badges, etc. BUT the EV portion gives the torque you need to over come off camber and up hill situations like you were just in. IF you have not tried that spot with the Hybrid, go back and give it a whirl. ;)
I own 2019 Rav4 hybrid XSE with same tires in this review (Falken Wildpeak AT Trails) and go camping all the time in mountains (1100lb trailer) with lots of mild offroading. Rav4 rear EAWD surpassed my expectations (better then my 2007 Rav4 regular AWD). Falken Wildpeaks also far surpassed expectations for off-road traction (excellent on gravel). As a bonus they're not much worse then my Michelin Xice winter tires here in Canada (good year round tires for people without long winters).
Great review Ryan. Had considered the RAV4 TRD to be the ultimate SUV; but, you have now proved differently. Appreciate the fact that you are 6'-1" legs/torso proportionate...and, so am I (LOL) Used to paying about 10% below MSRP for my new vehicles and waiting for those financial conditions to return. In no hurry to buy with the current chip and inventory shortages.
I seldom comment on videos, but I just wanted to drop you a note and say how much I've been enjoying your channel. I especially ESPECIALLY appreciate that you're local (I live in Edmonds, WA), and so are testing things on the same roads that I drive on. I've even recognized some of your testing locations from my own mountain driving, which is pretty cool! Now if I good just get you to do some tests of the Nokian Outpost AT and Outpost APT before I need to decide which one to buy… *hint* *hint* 😉
If you want to do off road don't buy a Rav4. It will be good on slightly rough dirt roads and in snow. I always turn of T/C when going slow in slippery stuff or the vehicle will come to a stop. This goes for any vehicle. Rav4 is an excellent transportation appliance that is safe, reliable and looks nice. That is why it sells a ton every year.
It’s truly a Toyota product that’s worthy of the TRD Off-road tag and the lower 40k price. It performs almost as well as a lifted Toyota Prius off-road, if not better! What it lacks is good fuel economy. Can’t blame it, it’s got 200 something horsepower. You sacrifice the fuel economy for loud noises and similar performance. I mean, listen to that beast roar when it’s stuck. It’s definitely worth it if you have the cash to spare. I really do love this car. But due to budget reasons, I think I will have to go with the 25k Toyota Prius. What a disappointment!
Now you gotta take a Toyota Highlander up this please Ryan! I would love to see if it’s the same torque vectoring diff as the Rav4 and if it has the same issues. Also I wonder if the 3.5L V6 could provide enough power up that first obstacle to be able to force it up.
Here I was considering this over the 2022 Subaru Crosstrek due to the Subaru CVT limiting power output when off road. Ummmm, looks like Ill be sticking with the Subaru! THANK YOU greatly for showing us this vehicles limitations.
@John Doe I actually love CVTs and Subaru's lineartronic is super reliable. I changed my mind from Crosstrek to Outback and just special ordered the Wilderness Edition. It has a lower gear ratio (4.44) and X-Mode does NOT shut off when tires slip over 25 mph (only with the OB Wilderness, Forester Wilderness does cut at 25mph) . The CVTs off road limits have been greatly improved.
I've been teetering between this Rav4 and the Forester Wilderness....This video sold me on the Subaru (even though it lacks power). I hope they put an XT motor in the forester soon
I have a trail on order after I sold my 2021 outdoor crosstrek. After watching this video I canceled my order. Two many issues with these Ravs. Was not even able to go up thus mild trail. Thanks for making thud video!
Or a set of agressive tires on the RAV4 if you insist on having a Toyota. It’ll never be as good as a Subie, don’t get me wrong. But having a Woodland edition myself, it does just fine 95% of the time. If you want an off-road machine, no question; a Cherokee or a Subie.
Wow that ending was quite surprising. Really begs the question on if it's worth it to get that system versus the standard brake torque vectoring or Hybrid.
My neighbor has a 2015 Subaru Outback. He has to disable the traction assist to drive up his snow covered driveway. The traction assist cuts engine power to prevent wheelspin. By disabling the traction assist, he is able to drive up the inclined driveway with full engine power. Maybe you should have turned off any traction assist that cuts engine power. Some systems are more aggressive at reducing engine output.
If you want a solid platform for overlanding that ISN'T Land Cruiser type vehicle or a Wrangler Unlimited. The KL Cherokee Trailhawk is honestly the most capable offroader in its size class; that isn't something already twenty years old. They have a full belly of skidplates, rear locker, a real low range, front & rear tow points, and they can tow 4,500lbs. Not to mention with a 2" spacer lift, you can fit 32" tires as well as being able to fit an 8,000lb winch. Plus, you can pick up a set of rock sliders from Rocky Road Outfitters, and if you get a roof rack, they can hold a roof top tent. If you fully kit it out with the MFC Offroad 2" kit and 32" tires, you can hit a 13.7" ground clearance. I had mine set up almost exactly like that, except for the winch and roof rack. I later traded it for a JL 2dr Rubicon. F.y.i if you intend on towing with it, just know that the 2015-2018 model Trailhawks NEED the factory tow package to pull 4,500lbs. 2019 and later Trailhawk models don't need to have the tow package from the factory and only need to receiver installed. V6 models have the 4,500lb capacity, and I4 models have a 4,000lb capacity. All other Cherokee trims are limited to 2,000lbs
Overlanding in this? Jesus you need to do 20 years of research if you even thought this piece of junk was capable of anything other than getting groceries.
Subaru has more experience and development in their awd systems. that's why it usually outperforms in awd when compared to majority of auto makers. even bmw xdrive/merc 4matic is underwhelming
@@octoslut Subaru has been doing AWD/4WD forever! Excellent however I prefer Hondas SH-AWD with predictive torque vectoring and can send 70% power to the back for even better dynamics/offroading
Subarus are great in just about anything Nature throws out and off road. I used to drive a CRV, traded that in for a Subaru, funny thing is I thought I was pulling into a Honda dealership, the amount of other CRV’s was quite a bit. It was pretty funny
Dear Toyota, hope this video help you to learn your lesson if a vehicle can't go Offroad do to give trim names like TRD Off-Road / Trail etc...!! Imagine a customer buy a Rav4 TRD Off-Road and can't take it on a little obstacle where Ryan took the Corolla cross what a disappointment would be remembering the extra price paid for the RAV4 TRD Off-Road? I get the point that this is by far reliable than a Subaru but my point is don't give names like TRD Off-Road when you can't go offroad.
My Subaru Forester Wilderness is four days old. I bought did after (mostly) watching Ryan's reviews. As Ken Miles's would say "It's all about pushing it to it's limits, but you have to have a sense of where those limits are". I love my new SUV, Subaru...You did it!! Thanks Ryan. The dealer offered me a deal on the black, I said "Not a chance mate, it's the green or nothing" LOL. I am now a subscriber 💪
I was looking at getting a fully optioned RAV4 TRD, but after being given the runaround by one dealer, my salesman at Toyota Bellevue looked into it and the only available package from toyota is the weather package and as far as he can tell toyota has no plans to make the technology and premium audio package available for the 2022 MY. Very disappointing since they are available to add on the website.
Rav4 Prime is excellent! Only reason I got Rav4 hybrid XSE instead was price tag here in Canada for Prime (after all taxes and government rebates) over $13,000 CAD ($10,000 USD) more then Prime XSE. Wasn't worth it for me, been very happy with the hybrid 😊
Being an old Jeep driver, the best off-road vehicle I ever had was a 1987 Toyota 4Runner. But that was after adding lockers front and rear, a duel transfer-case transmission set up, replacing the front independent suspension with a 1985 Toyota front straight axel, and adding a 5-inch suspension lift.
Can you please tell us how the car feels on the road? Is it smooth, soft ride, confortable, soak up bumps, quiet? Is it effortless driving or do you feel tired after a long drive? Can you pass cars without making the engine sound like its going to blow up? Is it better to get a v6 or 4 cylinder?
For the love of mercy. Turn-off the VSC. That's what's cutting the power. Even on the GX460 when you are in 4low, it automatically turns off VSC so ATRAC can work. Turn off the VSC. Do it again.
I compared the features and the prices of RAV4 TRD off-road and subaru outback wilderness. Absolutely, OBW is the better choice. After watching your video, I know I am right.
I don't know if it matters but on "SUV Battle" channel they showed that the traction control on Toyota can stop working as it should if the wheels are turned to one side (like you were at 18:35)
The look at 20:08 says it all...🤣 Appreciate the test. Just took this off my list for future vehicles. Dealers around me have these at almost 50k...for a system that doesn't work, no thanks. All the fancy stuff is useless if it doesn't perform when you need it to. Think I'll wait to see what the Mazda CX-50 has to offer, that or maybe the Passport.
just goes to prove although its a in theory "superior" system to Subaru's brake torque, subaru have it totally dialed and are still the king of AWD, although i totally believe Hondas IVTM4 is on par with symmetrical AWD
The twin clutch system in the Rav4 isn’t a real twin clutch system. It’s not like GKN or VTM4/iVTM4. TFL spoke to a toyota chief engineer and they concluded that even though toyota called it a twin clutch system, it’s simply isn’t. In a Subaru handbook, they will call their brake vectoring a “E-LSD”, which is also false terminology. iVTM4 Hondas have a true rear E-LSD and truck like brake vectoring on all 4 wheels. The GKN twin clutch equipped Bronco Sport badlands has a similar setup to iVTM4 equipped Hondas, and it was able to make it up Hells Gate in Moab (albeit with a professional driver), I was able to drive through all 9 miles of Fins N things in Moab (not a professional driver), REAL twin clutch systems are just REALLY different.
Ffs if he just tapped the traction control button it would've been fine. Our base le Rav4 on stock tires has yet to get stuck. I high centered it once and just choose a different line and it was fine.
really appreciate the video! it's so hard to find real world tests like this for the rav4 "torque vectoring" system. I am wondering if a software update from toyota may fix this on future models? it seems like the product is mechanically similar to the GKN twinster found the bronco sport or ivtm4 found in the honda pilot and passport? or is that not true? if so, hypothetically some improved software could get this vehicle up to similar capabilities of the badlands or the hondas, which i assume would have no problem walking up this obstacle. (i acknowledge badlands still has significantly better off road angles but otherwise would be mechanically similar right?)
I just test drive a Toyota RAV4 Limited in NY area and it was nice, but they want almost 50k!!!!! I was floored. For that, I can get an Acura RDX. I will save myself some money and buyout my Subaru Forester Limited 2019. It doesn't have all the whistles of this new Rav4 but is still a great vehicle. Thank you for your review.
Another excellent review video :). Your test proved that Subaru AWD system is king despite of the Toyota RAV4 has this fancy torque vectoring technology! Love watching your review and the way you do your off road testing. BTW, it would be great to add one more thing to your review... how loud or how quiet the car is at 55mph (normal high way speed) in decibel.
@John Doe I couldn't have agreed with you more. I owned three Toyota and all are very reliable. But we were talking about just one feature here, "AWD" system, of which Subaru beats the Toyota "AWD" system even with its fancy torque vectoring technology.
Prime should be better with more low down electric torque. My 2019 Rav4 hybrid XSE does mild offroading surprisingly well. EAWD works extremely well here in Canada winters too.
Very much enjoyed your review, must say my observations of Subaru is how the entire package of how it works all together is better than other systems, Subaru boxer motor sits lower in the frame for a low center of gravity putting the weight down over the tires, and CVT keeps the power in rev range in a constant flow of power across the range, I really believe Subaru has gotten the formula down for applying what it has and uses it more effectively, all the very best sir, I want to say as far as speed is concerned, in the winter I'm passing most vehicles due to so many off the side of the road in snow storms here in New England. Sir in all honesty the very best 4x4 are the dedicated trucks, they plow our parking lots and businesses throughout New England, the only ones that are better are those from DOT that plow our highways and byways.
Almost 41k puts it in the same price range as a well equipped 2022 Parhfinder SV and that is larger, and equipped with a v6 and the zf transmission. Toyota needs to do better at pricing the Rav4 so it's not competing against the mid-size competition.
Honestly, if you're gonna do light to moderate off-roading the TRD RAV 4 will disappoint, Forester wilderness and Jeep Cherokee trailhawk are way better choices. In my opinion, the RAV4 hybrid is the way to go, with faster acceleration and way better fuel economy.
Based off some other videos I’ve watched, the Adventure seems like the better deal mostly because you don’t get any additional ground clearance with the TRD, just trim specific suspension and tires and a few other bits. I feel like you could add your own suspension kit and the all weather liners for cheaper
Once again thank you for a fair and balanced vehicle review. I am very sorry to claim here, but Toyota T.R.D. design TEAM disappoints me, once again. NO BACK AXLE LOCKING MODE....REALLY....TOYOTA.....REALLY !!!
I thought that the torque vectoring system would just lock the wheels together but apparently no! Why not just give it an LSD?? It would be interesting to hear Toyota's response to this performance, but I guess it is hard to get them to comment.....
Wow I spent a lot of that video building up excitement hoping that Toyota had finally upgraded the rav4 to compete well with others in its class once the pavement ends. And then I was immediately disappointed once the pavement ended
Great video. I too thought for that price it should be able to go up a hill. Guess Toyota is saving that option for the new model that will only add it as another 5k option, lol.
Thanks for another great video. I have a quick question. I am just wondering how the new Pathfinder video is coming along? I am really looking forward to this video. Thanks again for continuing to bring great content.
@@drivingsports the TRD variant seems to have a hybrid option in some markets like Australia. I wonder if TRD hybrid will also be available in North America 🤔
You know your audience. Thanks for laying in there for a fit test. I would imagine getting a spare set of smaller rims and off road tires for goinf out to camping spots. Would full spare fit the top? I don't want to invest in a rear tire mount if I don't need to.
the torque distribution system seems very lazy on rav 4. the badge on there saying it's torque vector capable is like advertising the 7hp motor on their pruis awd models. in comparison the traction control on 4 runners are much better even it's break base. Toyota is just conserving their off-roading goods for their more premium product.
In what ways are the TRD seats different? At 9’ 43” mark you said “These are probably the best seats across the whole RAV4 lineup.” the seats in the RAV4 aren’t comfortable for me. I’d love to hear how these are different. Thanks!
It seems that all Toyotas in the US have this same "Options Issue". Different packages are only available in certain areas of the country, and not all options are openly available, either. I think Toyota has the dealers telling them what the people want in each region without actually getting input from drivers.
I like this especially reliability & durability of Toyota but the RAV4 appears more wobbly with a lot more swerve & sway compared to Subaru Outback which is really planted. But if you really just keep this for home city driving, it doesn’t matter.
You are always the best. I would like to see how Mazda CX-5 turbo would do in that trail where TRD RAV4 failed but Subaru cross track passes with flying colors. I do remember CX-5 with upgraded programming passed at the snow covered trial road. I am not sure if Mazda CX-5 turbo, cheaper price than RAV4 trd, will pass this muddy trail?
Those tires are customly done by toyota probably to get more gas mileage, and slight offroad. Rav4 are very capable units, but they will never cross 4 runner territory. As he said in the video, they are not your traditional falkens. It failed the test because they are probably more hybrid tire for low resistance, and better fuel economy
Funny thing is 10yrs ago(disclaimer I have a 12’ 4wd sport w/locking ctr diff) the Rav4 was more basic, but was/is a better looking vehicle inside & out, and it drives better(much more connected feel to road). The new ones, I’ve driven several, are just fugly and have very numb/vague handling. And, at 41k almost you’re into 4Runner territory. Makes no sense from marketing stand point.
Toyota is just trying to get the "adventure" crowd. This isn't a real offroader and I cannot see paying that much money when there are so many other options out there that can actually handle that kind of terrain. Purpose built
@@leootp22 I mean looking at a Car and Driver article about 2020 numbers they sold 145000 4runners and 408000 RAV4s in the US, there's clearly room for both models even with the absurd prices they're charging.
I TOTALLY agree with you…I had a 99 RAV4 for 14 yrs and was super excited to buy a new SUV. Test drove a 2017 RAV and man was I disappointed! Like you said, nothing was exceptional -not the looks (inside and out) not the driving experience either. In subsequent years, we’ve rented 2 RAV’S and I was left extremely underwhelmed to be honest. I guess they’re just reliable, utilitarian boxes and that’s good enough!
I've owned brand new 2006 Rav4 V6 and used 2007 Rav4 sport V6 for over 300,000 miles. Bought 2019 Rav4 hybrid XSE brand new and find it far better then Gen 3 Rav4s which handled far worse (Gen 5 TNGA platform far stiffer chassis) and were much rougher on rough pavement & potholes. Gen 3 Rav4s only 6" ground clearance compared to 8.3" on new Rav4s much worse on curbs/offroading/winter. 3rd Gen Rav4s did have more interior room + electric steering on new Rav4 is more vague then 3rd Gen power steering (all new SUVs typically have vague electric steering). 3rd Gen Rav4s look very soft and dated with a big butt 😂 New Rav4s much more masculine (look like baby 4runner) 👍
I really wish they would off an engine that was a little more inspired. Having rented these, the lack of acceleration make me hate them after a little while.
Hybrid much more satisfying drive and quieter. I was super disappointed in gas model acceleration and especially engine noise (no hood blanket in gas models, hybrids come standard which all should IMO)
This really breaks my heart to see! I was planning on getting one of these so that I can do a little off-road hunting but still have a good vehicle for around town. Are there any chips or systems that you can use that will disable the power cut off?
I love how the AWD Toyota RAV4, Honda CRV, and Subaru Forester all match up so nicely in features and price. Which Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, and Mitsubishi models fight in this segment?
Same reason people think it's important to be able to full stop in the middle of a climb and start again. I have a 2020 AWD XLE rav and passed over much worse rock crawl and I was loaded with over 2000LBS of stock for my cabin 300 KM in the woods. Those reviews are informative and nice but the ''off road'' part is dumb. Most people will buy this car for looks and never hit a trail in their life anyways.
