I was DEAD SET on a Civic Si. I've owned faster cars, including a C55 AMG with a protune, ceramic coated headers, cams, the whole shebang. But since childhood, I've wanted a high revvy Civic Si. It was the "everyman's sport compact" and the new one saw a return to what the Civics of yesteryear looked like. Plus, I have a Ninja for the speed now, so I didn't need my daily to be blistering anyway. The Civic had the perfect blend of high MPG, reliability, and that classic Honda zest that is present in all their sport oriented cars. ... That was until I contacted four separate dealerships. They either didn't have any or wanted a whopping $48,000 for one. Yes, FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND dollars. Not for a Type R, but just an Si. These stealerships actually thought I would be willing to cough up BMW money for a Honda sport compact economy car with slightly less power than a Camry Hybrid. I visited a Subaru dealership nearby; hated how the new car looked. I owned a 2019 WRX that I (sorta) enjoyed (I guess)... But it certainly wasn't even close to my favorite of the cars I've owned (Infiniti G37S, Focus ST, C55 AMG, 2019 WRX). Decided to give the test drive a shot anyway. ... BLOWN. AWAY. It drives like a Focus ST with AWD and less heat soak. Quick to flick around, rotates in corners, fantastic rigidity. There's finally a sense of solidity in this car unlike previous WRXs. I adored my Focus ST, but my gripes were traction and heat soak. This WRX fixed that, AND gave me an extra 20HP. Compared to the 2022, my '19 feels like an absolute alpha build prototype. The main difference, and arguably most crucial, is the way it builds power. The easiest way I can describe it is... The 2019 feels reluctant. The 2022 feels eager. When you floored the 2019, it would give you the beans, but in a, "But daaad, I don't WANNA!" sort of way. Zero gut punch or adrenaline. In the 2022, it's kind of like a German Shepherd, "WEEEEEEE AGAIN AGAIN LET'S GOOOOO." You finally feel the rise in your stomach the way a WRX should provide during acceleration. That was the character that I missed from my old Focus ST in the previous WRX. This new one has all of it and more. Premium pkg with STI Short Throw (mandatory, trust me). MSRP was something like $34,500. I bargained the dealer down to $32,XXX. ZERO regret. The thing drives like a B8.5 Audi S4 with slightly less pull and a widely available manual transmission.
Funny you mention the B8.5 Audi S4! I owned one for 2 years and then I hopped straight into a new 2022 WRX to get a car under a warranty. I do have to say that I was impressed with the 2022 WRX but I definitely miss the 0-60 and straight line speed of the Audi S4 with the DSG transmission. However, the 2022 WRX is no slouch for sure and it feels pretty nimble/more fun to drive overall. I missed a 6speed manual so I’m happy to have a manual again too. Pretty happy with my purchase!
@@Shortay1325 The funny thing about the new WRX is that apparently, it holds mods SUPER well. A stock B8.5 S4 makes roughly 305-310WHP. People with 22+ WRXs have been getting like 340WHP on 93 with just an intake, catback, intercooler, and a protune. If you're stuck in a 91ACN state, then you might make 320WHP with just those mods, which is similar to a stock B8.5.
@@BahhJustaLamb Yep I am aware! I would love to get a protune but I don’t want to void my warranty. I would be the unlucky dude that has a RTV issue and then get an engine failure after tuning, then my whole warranty is useless. The intermittent RTV definitely scares me a bit. The reason I bought my brand new VB WRX was to get a warranty. My B8.5 Audi S4 wasn’t under warranty and the miles were at 75K so I didn’t want to worry about anything failing. I have gotten an exhaust but I will have to wait on getting a tune until my warranty is up.
@@HeavyMetalWRX Yeah it’s insane! Really neat. However, I’m a little scared about the intermittent RTV issues. Knowing my luck with cars… I would have the RTV issue, tune my car and then something fails lol I would rather not have to fork out a lot of cash to replace an engine. So I’ll just wait until after my warranty is done to tune it.
I really wanted a 2022 Civic Si but the markups ruined it for me. It's not the fastest car but you get so much tech. To keep it short; bought a 2022 WRX at MSRP and I dont regret it. 😂
I just went through this decision. The Si was an appealing option with the fuel economy being as good as it is. In the end I bought a 2023 WRX in WRB. AWD and more power made the choice easy. I absolutely love my WRX, couldn't be happier with it. Love the content dude!
I considered an Elantra N, Civic Si, and a GTI before buying my WRX. The only Civic Si in my area was marked up $5000 by the dealer. The only Elantra N in my area was sold. There were no GTI's in my area. Ultimately, I wanted AWD as I am not a fan of FWD performance cars. The wheel spin (or aggressive traction control...especially on wet or slick surfaces) combined with the wheel hop on hard launches is just a turn off. I did not want all the "bells and whistles". I was THRILLED when I discovered the WRX didn't have them. I don't want safety nannies. I wanted the most old school analog car I could find. I also don't like digital gauges. What happens when that screen goes out? The WRX checked all the boxes for me. I wish it was even more old school than it is. I'd love it if it had no screens and just a standard DIN sized radio that could be easily replaced. I even like the old school key. With the $5000-$6000 I saved over buying the other cars, I have put on coilovers, tinted the car, got an AccessPort, bought an Drunkmann tune, upgraded the brake pads, rotors, and fluid, and upgraded the speakers. I'm still under what any of those other cars would have cost and I venture to guess I can out run any of them on a twisty road.
I purchased my 23' civic Si towards the end of December. The 2022 WRX was a very close second. What came down to it was what I valued. With the shifter, the auto rev matching, the adaptive cruise control were the main winners for me. Although the Si is significantly slower, it has more creature comforts that I valued that eventually won over the WRX. Maybe if I was at a different point in my life where I didn't need the adaptive cruise control or lane keep assist, I would definitely get the WRX. But, the value you get for the Civic was hard to beat, assuming you can find one at MSRP. The civic Si is not worth anything over MSRP. Love the videos man!
@Silas V I came from 20 years of honda's, several si's. I went with the wrx this time around, absolutely no regrets! On the streets, the wrx is way way better. Being able to mash the gas on any terrain and have instant traction is amazing. I will never go back to front wheel drive.
@@steve8803 Way better in some ways. The civic Si is way more comfortable as a daily driver and gets superior MPGs. I'm a honda fan too but I might want to give the WRX a try, seems like a good performance bargain with the AWD, turbo 4 with good displacement, and a manual... But it sacrifices everything else.
Hell if you get the WRX GT you get those other features. That's what I got. Best of Both Worlds in a WRX but the only way to have a lot of fun is to do paddle shifting cuz it's the spt auto transmission. I like it though.
I currently have both the Si and WRX. 2020 former, and 2020 then 22 latter. Here are my thoughts. (As well as thoughts on other options I have owned) 2020 Si… I am not a fan of the aesthetics of the newer most recent gen Si, but that is subjective. The overall power train is roughly the same in the latest model. I also had a 2015 Si. My thoughts…. If buying new or used. For a stock driving experience, the older 2.4L NA Si was great, the engine and transmission seemed a perfect pair. One of the smoothest combos I have driven. I really liked that car and how it drove. The newer turbo Si isn’t as smooth of an experience, but still pretty nice. A simple tune really wakes up the car, especially if you reduce the turbo ramp time. I am not sure how eliminating the turbo ramp time would affect the engine, but minimizing hasn’t seemed to do anything negative. Turbo lag is basically gone. (It can be eliminated using a tune, but I would not consider that good for road use, combined with no turbo ramp, likely would stress the motor a lot more) The car peps up and is very quick with a tube, especially when accelerating at highway speeds for passing. It was actually quicker than my 2020 WRX when passing at highway speeds. Off the line, it was slower, but not by too much. (Both cars stock but with a tune) I like the driving position and gear shift position better in the Si for what that matters. Overall the interior layout is more comfortable and feels more sports car like. Gas mileage… The Si is king here. It actually improved with a tune. Even with aggressive driving you get solid mid 30s mpg, cruising on the highway at 65mph, 40+ mpg. The Si has a “Sport” mode button that tightens up the steering and suspension which is nice for toning it down for in town for more comfort. Also, tunes can be set differently based on the Sports mode, so you do not have to drive around at full tune if you do not want. And you can even add options to the tunes that affect things like turbo ramp that can be changed on the fly, by basically imputing the Konomi code into the steering wheel controls. As I mentioned, my 2020 WRX vs the SI was pretty close, but I would suspect that the WRX will gain more from Mods than the SI. The 2022 WRX flips the script though, stock but with a tune, it is faster off the line and accelerating at highway speeds. I upgraded to the 22 because I was unable to get the options I wanted on the 20 at the time. I am glad I made the swap. The new model feels more refined when driving, and the engine eliminated any complaints I had for the older model. (Reminder, I am comparing stock with a basic tune only, and cannot make any statements about how the car will behave with mods) Overall the WRX is more simple in its tuning options, no options or on the fly changes, just tune and go. The WRX has the better handling without a doubt, though the Si isn’t a slouch. Until Subaru actually starts adding the advanced Eyesight features like adaptive cruise and lane assist, the Si is a superior road trip car. It practically drives itself with all the aids on, good for being a bit safer when you are zoned out after 8hrs on the road. I have also owned a 2015 Focus ST and ‘16 Fiesta ST… They are not currently in production, but for anyone looking at the used market, they are a good option. The Focus was genuinely quick, but the driving experience was a little muted due to the higher reliance on computer aiding, very comfortable ride though, more sporty feel in seating position and control location. The Fiesta was quick and light but not as fast as the Focus, the light weight and reduced electronic stability control authority meant it felt more fun to sling around in corners, very go cart like in its directness. The seating position was not sporty at all, with the shifter position and seating being very grocery getter in feel. Neither of the Fords had any tune, so I can not speak on how they behaved with one. The Subaru/Toyota BRZ/86… I had the initial year model when it was the Scion still… For pure driving enjoyment, it was a blast despite the reduced power and acceleration. I absolutely loved driving that thing on curvy backroads. It felt and rode like a proper sports car. It was kept stock, and it could be really nice with a bit of a bump in power. The interior was more basic and less integrated system wise, so swapping the radio for aftermarket would not be an issue at all, this may have changed in newer year models though. If aftermarket radios are your thing, the base model WRX looks like it still keeps the radio separate from things like climate control. And if the BRZ/86 do as well, they are the only choice. The Si has no option for a less integrated infotainment layout.
I enjoyed reading this response as I feel the 2015 civic si was the best civic si. the k24 and the 6 speed both wanted to climb and climb and the car had a soul. My 22 wrx is a blast and it really outperforms the 10th generation civic si's that I have driven and I even sold my GR86 despite it being a drivers car because the new wrx suited me needs better and was a faster car.
@@garboi8976 Yeah, the turbo Si feels different for sure. I enjoy the 2020 still though. Reducing the turbo ramp time really makes it feel more responsive. It looks pretty good as well, in my opinion. The newer gen… I hope they drop that “tablet” style screen soon. I hate the look of interiors with them. Sticking up off the dash like an afterthought. The exterior looks are ok. I may end up with a BRZ or 86 in the future… Probably be my choice when we decide to trade out the Si.
Don't even get me started on Ford Focus that crap was a smooth ride of a car but also stock just got boring. I had more fun in my Honda Civic and especially WRX.
@@InfuzeDcyphR I drove the CVT, and I didn’t like it personally, but it could have been my lack of knowing how to set up the systems for sport mode or whatnot. It just felt a bit gutless. I am inclined to think that is the case, as reviews seem to like the CVT. Personally I prefer a manual over paddles though.
I love both brands. We always had an outback, still do. Had my eye on WRX and GTI but ultimately went for a 23 Si. I have my toy already 15 Camaro SS2 so needed a daily. Soon as I sat in the Si I mentily made my choice. Had a great mix of new and old. Car is fun as hell as a daily.
I had a 10th gen Si and it had a lot of good features, but I ended up tuning mine and ended up with a domino effect of repairs and/or upgrades. The engine in the Si was strong, but not the stock head bolts, intercooler, or clutch. It ended up being too expensive in the end and I ended up with a '22 WRX Premium. I'm glad I made the switch. I was tired of blowing the front tires off whenever I wanted to launch the Civic. What I learned is, if you buy a car for its awesome gas mileage, don't try and make it fast. You will most likely spend more doing so than just getting the "fast version."
Started with S2000 for 9 years, got a used 13 Wrx kept it stock and non stop issues , test drove a 10th gen Si and fell in love. I enjoy Hondas precision feel and reliability
I had a crosstrek with eyesight. Main reason why i traded my trek for a wrx. Way too intrusive for me for sure. I actually love that the wrx does not have these safety features.
I have the WRX GT which has the eyesight technology. Sometimes I like it for road trips but other times I hate it when I want more control so depending on my mood I will turn off certain features depending on what I am doing. But yeah if you want the raw feeling of not having safety features trying to watch your back then go for the lower trim levels. I don't mind it that much but I do completely understand the desire to have a more raw feeling. Either way welcome to the WRX
I would be looking more into the Si because i live in California but two things kill it for me: 1. Aftermarket parts are going to net a large difference as opposed to the WRX with parts that’ll make huge visual and performance (especially). 2. Dealer markups, at least in California, are not avoidable. WRX on the other hand, were going for invoice when dealers tried moving 22’ stock recently.
Not anymore my friend. My brother literally just sold his vb and bought a brand new SI from San Jose for MSRP. They're not gouging as much anymore. Now that the type r and type s coming the SI big baller spenders are no longer interested especially with all the problems the 11th gen SI has had. Blown motors,blown turbos,fried power steering rack etc. The crappy annoying fake engine sound is stupid too.
@It's Ok You're wrong the 10th gens also had similar problems just like thhe 11th gen. Although I had a 10th gen civic that was fully modded and tuned (except bigger turbo) it felt like driving a ticking time bomb 😅 the 1.5t engines were not reliable once you start modifying them.
@@RJWebber honestly I'm probably gonna end up going back to an 11thgen if the middle refresh has fogs and a few differences. As far as the engine in the civic goes,k is always an option. The vb is best left stock.
@@RJWebber plus when it comes to reliability,no one,even Subaru fits the bill. Anything basically built around 0w-20 is gonna have problems. My 11thgen blew it's guts absolutely bone stock driving normal on the freeway at only 10k miles. So there goes the reliability argument. Against all odds,the 9th gen was the last of the greats and the only Honda big block civic ever. Plus no issues with mine at 240k miles
I appreciate the honesty in the comparison, since your a subaru channel its nice to know that your not just going to say "yea wrx is better, everything is better" cus then whats the point of watching lol kudos!!
I've owned a 8th gen civic si for 13 years. Fun car!! I'm on a 22 wrx premium now, it's a different kind of fun! I was thinking of getting a 11th gen si but wanted something different...plus the wrx's are more readily available. I hope to keep this car as long as I did with the si.
For me, it was simple, real handbrake vs. electric, real gauges vs. digital screen, and finally, NONE of that emergency braking take over the car crap. Went with a 23 Limited.
Picked up the 2022 SI recently . The WRX was not even on my list, not because it’s not a good car it’s because I did not feel like I needed that much power for a daily and the new styling did not do it for me I wanted something low key. The thing that shocked me with the SI was the gas mileage. On the highway I was getting 40 to 42 mpg. Currently averaging 37 mpg. My biggest complaint is the stock tires are a let down, but they are usually always are.
This is a completely valid point. I really do believe that both cars are great at doing different things. I am definitely jealous of the added creature comforts and Qol that the civic has. Plus the shifter always feels better in the Si. Honda knows how to make shifters.
Si's always limited have mark ups and accessories so $40k otd. So might as well get the integra a spec same price. Get all the things they stripped out and more. Si is slow but gets 40 mpg and damn fun around town
@HeavyMetalWRX Nope I got quote from Gillman Honda of all places $26k otd for 2020 beginning covid. Why did you leave Houston? I've been here all my life wanna move soon
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks BRO hahaha Gillman did that ?! I left because I met my wife on the internet. She lived in STL. Otherwise I'd still have been in Houston 🤣
The Civics shifter is amazing. Wish I didn't have to do 300$ in mods to still have my VB shifter feel like crap in comparison. Kind of apples to oranges. Civic is a better daily. WRX is more of a brute do everything car.
From a purely daily driver perspective I don’t think any car comes close to the value of the civic si. Wanted an 11th gen as well before I got my 22 wrx but I’m glad I went with the subie though 😁
The reason I bought this wrx is the manual handbrake. subaru makes another center console for the manual handbrake. you can see they know what we want. that is all about driving pleasure.
Drove both. Dealer had wrx for 2500 under MSRP. They had 41 of them… drove it, fun car, shifter sucked though and gas mileage was poor imo. Drove the si, had a 4K mark up, negotiated down to 32k, included alarm, all weather mats, and lifetime oil changes. I had a previous 2019 si before this new one so now I feel like if I had to do it again, I would probably go with the wrx just to try something different.
@@HeavyMetalWRX there’s a few 2022’s still around for 35k not even including much of a discount besides 2-3k. Easily 4-5k off at the end of this month if they need to meet quota
WRX because I live in the northeast. Yes you could do winters here with 2wd and snow tires. But with 2wd, I find myself stuck getting at the end of my driveway in big storms after the snow plow has been going by all day or night.
This is amazing. I saw that option existed and I kind of laughed. It's so normal now to assume no CD player in the car. I still have so many of my CDs that I bought and burned. At home with custom playlists. It would be fun to go through them...it's been so long 😂
When I was shopping for a new car, all the dealers were marking them up except Subaru. Plus where I live I need AWD or 4x4 so Honda was out of the question unless I wanted a SUV, and I won’t drive a VW or Ford.
@@HeavyMetalWRX I was reading the wrx needs a tune for an intake and exhaust and I'm not willing to tune it I think. I tuned my fiesta st after a few years and shops don't even want to look at it. I read the si u can kinda do whatever and not need a tune
@@Jambiswag The issue is usually when you have a turbocharged car the MAF needs to know the exact air that's going in or your car is going to run lean chances are the Civic sj I would probably also do the same. Now you can get away without getting a tune on an intake but the problem is you will be lean and going full throttle is when you will be the leanest which is when it's the least safest. Now there are intake options like the parent intake that only uses half of the intake piping so it's safer than let's say the ETS intake which would be really bad to run without a tune.
The Sis and Integras definitely have pretty interiors, but the rev hang bugged me, the weightless clutch pedal bugged me, the electronic parking brake bugged me, and of course, putting my foot to the floor on the throttle bugged me. The WRX was just too good to pass on, and i only tried the base model when I test drove it.
Ended up going from a VB to a 23 Civic SI. Don't get me wrong, the VB is amazing for what it is, but the SI is the more refined vehicle for daily driving
Looked at both ended up with accord 2.0t 10 speed . Couldn't find a manual for a good price. Its fun with a few mods but Im still wanting that raw wrx feeling.
Random question but I saw your comment on how you bought a used accessport and paid the reprogram fee. Did you buy the 15/21 wrx/sti ap and then reprogram? Was it difficult?
Actually I got one for a mustang/focus. I remember which one it was. I got it super cheap. So I had to pay the difference in cost between the Ford AP licence and the Subaru one which was like $100. Then I had to pay the $150. So in total it cost me $450($200 for the AP). They just needed me to send them the license file in an email. Then sent me a new one to load in through the AP manager. Easy peasy.
There’s some other stuff I’ve noticed our Aussie VB’s have or don’t have, like heated side mirrors. There’s only 1 very small part of Australia where they could be used. Edit. All model in Australia also come with the 11.3 inch screen. 👍
Great video but i feel like the SI should be compared to a higher trim since its just a higher trim civic. I was up in the air about both actually and tested them both alot. The markups were to crazy on the SI so i went with a 23 wrx limited for 6k below MSRP and i love the car!
I'm not sure if it's fair because of the price. I could compare the limited but then at almost 6k difference it's a no brainier if cost is your motivating factor.
If the Civic SI was like 2L or 2.5L it would win easy peasy for me. Even FWD. I live in NC I almost never need AWD. That 1.5L with a transmission that can't handle too much more power without starting to slip is a nope from me. The interior on the Honda is vastly superior IMO, infotainment, seats, shift feel, steering feel, tech, sound, all of it is better. Don't mention it gets double the MPG
I got a limited 22 vb wrx for 32k so.. there's no possible way a civic si was going to beat that deal. my only gripe is that im getting 19.4 mpg YIKES. But it is what it is. If I was buying a car for mpg and adaptive cruise control and more driver interference I wouldn't be getting a sports car unlike some others in the comments.
I don't particularly mind FF. I used to autocross in my GTi as well and it definitely wasn't bad but a different set of tricks to get it to rotate. GTi were notorious for lift off oversteer tho so there's that.
screw creature comforts, this is a driving experience thats why I traded off my corolla for a 2023 wrx premium. Last year the wife and I bought a 2022 Honda accord touring 2.0 thats whats comforts for.
Had both the brand new SI and the brand new integra 6 speed..... I sold the SI after the motor blew completely stock . The integra,well I traded in for the WRX because the integra is excessively expensive for what you're getting. The WRX is definitely a perfect daily driver drivers car even with the shit mileage I get,the smiles per gallon are higher than both the SI and integra. HOWEVER the only thing that I miss is the sound systems of either WRX offering are absolute shit. The Hondas are superior by light-years. Both the Bose and the Acura 3d els is superior by a fat margin than even the "upgraded" HK from the subbie. Other than that Im not missing much. Plus having a regular e brake handle is much better.
@@InfuzeDcyphR I have to say,in non biased opinion the Si beats the Subaru HK audio by a boat load. The base audio isn't even in the same century as the Si
@@InfuzeDcyphR i don't complain about the speakers anymore. A couple of 6.5 speakers off parts express with dampening and adaptors made on helluva difference. Still not SI/Bose quality but . Way better for sure
Si wins by knock out. Plus its cheaper. If you live in snow country, maybe you need all wheel. But SI is more value for money, assuming the greedy pigs at Honda dealerships dont charge above msrp stickers.
Well this is actually a comparison stock for stock. At this time it's true, we don't know the long term reliability but non tuned WRX's have made it to 100k miles and beyond. Of course tuned cars will definitely have a much shorter life.
@@HeavyMetalWRX well , actually WRXs blow up anyway, tuned or not. The other Subaru products are fine. The WRX just simply has a short life span, on average. Do you know ANYONE with a WRX with 200000 miles? 150000 miles? In the SI world, they commonly last that long and beyond. Un-tuned that is.
@@kevbiker3982 yea it's true SOME do. There is a whole forums based on this as NASIOC ( Subaru forums) showcasing what cars blow up and what don't over the course of 8 years and their tuned specifics. I'm not denying that. It's also a completely ok thing to enjoy a civic si over a WRX, in not debating that either. What I AM saying is both are good options for different reasons. Old STis blow stock or tuned, it's been well documented. There is still a massive amount of Subaru owners who actually do not tune their cars. Just last year a 2015 WRX hit 600k miles ( completely stock and original engine + transmission). The conversation isn't which car lasts longer as most people don't actually keep their car for 100-200k miles anyway. The conversation is what do you get for the price today stock for stock.