No manufacturer can make a manual that fast. The Nissan Z just recently arrived. There is no way they could have done it this quick and yet many applaud it for being this goof since it's a custom BMW transmission that no other BMW is using ( I think)
@@arhamkhakwani5851 It’s a BMW ZF unit that Toyota “modified”. You can get a manual B58-powered car (previous-gen M240i in the US, probably a 340i in Europe too) so there is obviously a BMW gearbox that fits the engine.
@Saintham Designer It’s an existing BMW ZF transmission. Toyota said there would be a manual Supra when they released the first underpowered model because BMW wouldn’t let them use the full output B58.
@Saintham Designer Are you from Jupiter? Car makers are worse at lying than small children. Everyone knew there would be a manual Supra within 2-3 years. Again, look at M240i to see what hardware BMW has available.
Porsche acknowledged the desire for manuals when they produced the manual 911r, they had removed the manuals from all gt cars and turbos. then they made the 911r into a gt3 touring with a manual. It is great that someone at manufacturers understands enthousiasts. We dont all want the quickest 0-60, many accept to conceed the 2-3 tenths to the auto just for the pleasure of shifting. My 2 cars are manuals , and i find myself often shifting for nothing, just to blip the throttle myself, hear my engine. AND there is nothing like a well executed launch in a manual.
@@100M2B Don’t ever vote for a free market politician then. Plus likely all that would happen is MSRP would go away and every deal would be on a what they could get for it basis.
@@ATH_Berkshire Naver taken Economics 101 huh? "Price controls are normally mandated by the government in the free market. They are usually implemented as a means of direct economic intervention to manage the affordability of certain goods and services."
From what I heard, the BMW sourced engine can be tuned for much higher hp. This Supra is still polarizing to me but I always look at them whenever I see one on the road especially in yellow so I guess the the Toyota design has succeeded.
Alex: Great review! Love the car. But From a fun & feel/dynamics standpoint , is this car notably ‘better’ than a GR86? (obv. it’s faster in a straight line ) What about the shifter feel compared to the one in the GR?
Also, i imagine the auto in launch control does have internal slippage of clutches to execute the launches too. If you fit your manual with sticky tires, and dump the clutch, it is the tires you roast, which is fast and fun. Cheers
I believe the auto Supra uses ZF 8HP transmission which uses torque converter, so there's no clutch to wear if you launch it. DCT and AMT auto transmissions fit your description.
I finally saw a Supra in person recently and I have no idea how people get in and out of them. It's so small and low to the ground and the roofline looks like I'll crack my head on it each time.
I've driven the supra for two years. I am 6.4. It was a little uncomfortable but not too bad. I even fit with a helmet on. It's bigger on the inside than it looks on the outside. Do remember that Germans are pretty tall on average.
Another excellent review, and appreciate the pointed statements in defense of the seemingly impressive and successful BMW-Toyota venture here. But, Alex - do you really find this more attractive than the LC500?
Not even close to the LC500. That car is beautiful. I love the Supra for its engine and transmission options, sweet BMW interior and sports car proportions. But the exterior styling detail is definitely not that attractive to my eyes.
@@naveenthemachine That is true. I can like the Supra interior but the LC500 is in another league. As for the exterior, I hope that Toyota refreshes the Supra exterior in a few years.
I have a friend who owns a 2021. My only complaints are the low roof line which for my 6'1" frame makes for a difficult ingress and egress. The other is the wind buffeting when the windows are down. Other than that its a really good and very fast car.
I know Toyota wants you to repeat their PR talking points. But. This is a BMW with BMW dictating what components Toyota can have and how they are tuned. The manual transmission is a BMW ZF unit, supposedly with Toyota mods, the same way you let a 2-year-old “help”.
@@CACressida If Toyota is such a boss, how come Supra still has previous-generation iDrive software and was launched with the low-output version of B58 while Z4 and M240i had the high-output version (and if you watch Cammisa's latest video, the new M240 still makes more power than the Supra despite identical paper specs)? Sounds like the kind of boss who drives a Corolla S with a spoiler...
@@Ficon you're asking about dumb idrive? Toyota hasn't even given its own home brewed cars its latest infotainment. You do know BMW came to Toyota for a collaboration in hydrogen technology and Toyota got the Supra out of the deal. Do you really think Toyota wanted the Supra so bad they begged bimmer? You're delusional. Do you even know Toyota sent BMW back to the drawing board over parts to be redesigned to meet Toyota reliability standards? Thats what a boss does in this industry. And they did it from the driver seat of their 2003 Corolla S.
@@CACressida Oh yeah, hydrogen, the fuel that converts 1000 hp electricity into less efficient 150 hp electricity that drips water on your driveway. So, boss, how about them low-output B58 engines and screwing over customers who bought first-year cars by releasing second-year cars with a ton more power when Daddy BMW said you could?
@@Ficon dude its been proven over and over on the dyno. 2020 B58s were putting down a shit more power than as advertised. Articles have been written about this and RU-vid videos are all over.
“ neither company had enough money” is such bs. Toyota is one of the biggest car companies in the world. It’s the same company who lost money on every lfa made. They picked the easy route
It's slightly bigger cousin the M240i is my choice for it's added practicality and it's mysteriously "faster" times despite being bigger, heavier and having the same engine. No manual on that one though.
I thought a critique of the Supra was that under spirited driving, the tail liked to break away when cornering. Is that still the case in this model year?
Great preview Beautiful interior color. Exterior color isn’t my favorite at least on camera. I have bought several new BMWs and never had major problems, so a Toyota vetted BMW collaboration doesn’t scare me.. too much.
You list the MPG for the automatic Supra. I don’t believe Toyota has published the MPG for the manual but it is sure to be lower especially the Highway number.
Glad I am too tall to fit as I might have to have one. Wonder what the "market adjustment" will be on these in today's market? Getting one by the end of the year probably optimistic.
It's great having a manual in the Supra now for people that want it. Personally I'd still buy the automatic, mainly for more street use and the performance gains for what I'd use the car for. Little annoying they still haven't corrected that windows buffeting problem, I understand that the mirrors are the same as the Z4, but surely they'd be able to work around design hardpoints by manufacturing maybe a little deflector to fill the air gap?
I guessing the metal flake is very light in that paint as it’s picking up and reflecting the amber sunlight very well and probably the blue sky to your eyes Alex. 🤔
The problem with the Supra can not be fixed with a manual transmission. JDM loyal don’t want a BMW period! It’s not a real Supra or even a Toyota. It’s lackluster sales since 2019 is a direct reflection of its biggest problem. The new Z will be the end of the internal combustion sports car for Japan. Toyota has already announced the confused Supra is dead in 2024 so it’s days are numbered. Shame on Toyota for shoots the FT1 and then giving the world a BMW.
@@pmayo7894 Toyota wanted to sell 2000 cars a month in 2019 and called it a low volume car. They have sold on average about 400-500 per month since 2019. I would not call that a success. Some may say lackluster!
@@MrDa89soup - I heard that NA sales exceeded the A80 given how many crises we are experiencing. The aforementioned A80 was sold at a time Japan's economy was sh*t.
We had so little time with the car that’s all we could do. Toyota gave us ~4 hours to drive both this and the Corolla on and off-track and film them both. Eeek .
I don't care for the paint. The different painted exterior components reflected light and color independently from the adjacent pieces (in the video). Giving it an odd look. I'm happy for the manual! However, I'm 6'-3" and from what I have read and watched, the Z might fit me better. And the base Z with the manual might fit my wallet better too. Great video.
Its very well documented that this has a ZF source manual transmission. Essentially identical to the BMW M3 manual. Nothing special or Toyota specific other than the shift nob weight
I don't understand. If you're already at Miller, why not let (qualifed) journalists, bloggers, and youtubers run at the actual track? It's right there! Instead, we get the perimeter.
You know something? I bet you a lot of people would NOT have minded if Toyota used their twin turbo V6 in this car. I'm also willing to bet that no-one would have minded that 2GR-FKS engine in the BMW Z4 either.
They want the widest possible coverage. But they can’t cost effectively support all the press at an event on the same day. Without an embargo everyone on day one would get all the viewership and the rest would get nothing so wouldn’t bother to addend. Embargoes have been a fact of auto PR for ever it’s just now with instant blogging we all know about it.
@@naveenthemachine It's all the stuff that is attached to it, that will certainly break. BMW will give Range Rover a run for it's money for lack of reliability.
Sofyan / Redline released his video earlier this morning and it seems that it is ZF manual transmission. Not sure how sure that is nor did I know ZF makes manuals.
The 3.0 inline six engine isn't a twin turbo engine. It's a twin scroll, single turbo engine. Twin turbos would get you almost 500HP, about the same as the M3 and M4. That might be possible with the Supra if BMW decides to bring a Z4M to market.
Alex, It is about time the Magna Steyr Supra® offered a manual transmission. Who ever said I love performance driving but hate to shift my own gears? If we did not care about details 4:25 we would not have subscribed to the most detailed and thorough car reviewer on RU-vid . Speaking of details, are you willing to reveal who broke the GR Corolla we see stranded at 10:05 ? 😉
Well, most customers say that to be honest. Only cars with truly terrible autos sell better with the manual. Every M car for instance sells better with the automatic
If only this had a Toyota engine. I don't trust BMW engines further than I can throw them. At least with the manual, you don't have to worry about the reliability of a BMW made auto gearbox.
The “not enough money to do it in their own” line is such BS that Toyota has been touting for years. They made the gr corolla without help. And Mazda, a significantly smaller company, is making their own straight six. Toyota just needs excuses to make people believe they did everything they could to bring back the supra. But they didn’t. The Toyota badge is a bmw part number.
The Corolla already existed, making the GR easier. Mazda’s in-line 6 is years late and we don’t know how it will compete. The fact of the matter is that the Supra still cost Toyota over 500 million all told.
Toyota is the largest automaker in the world. They have a lot of money. I mean a LOT of it. And yet they say they don’t have enough money to do it on their own? 😂😂 Just a pathetic excuse Not to mention this has bmw reliability. The whole bs of “detuning the engine for Toyota reliability” is BS. The power is the exact same as the BMW Z4 and the transmissions are exactly identical. There’s zero Toyota reliability. So Lexus has enough money to do the LS sedan that nobody’s gonna buy but Toyota can’t afford to do the Supra on their own?
@@AAutoBuyersGuide and Toyota already had the IS/RC platform. Toyota was already developing a TTV6 too. As a sports car, I agree the current supra is great. But Toyota has had a lot of excuses for it being 99% a bmw. The other commenters are right, I shouldn’t care what a marketing department says. I just wish they would talk about something else instead of how it’s definitely not a bmw
can i fix it at bmw dealer for the engine stuff? I just don't trust toyota dealer on engine related stuff. those pesky VANOS and things that tend to malfunction
People who buy Toyota don't cross shop with BMW. Specially for Toyota icon cars like the Supra. The Supra has gained something since becoming a BMW but it has lost its originality and genuineness
the b58 was reliable as it is. nevermind the fact toyota took the engine and tore it down to every last screw and built it back up with forged internals and to hold 1000hp from factory. true story. theres a video on youtube explaining it
About the Z vs Supra it's important to remember that Toyota is the most profitable car company Nissan isn't in the top ten.... Meanwhile Ford a company that makes much less money in a year then Toyota pumps out unique enthusiast vehicles like no one else with out partnering with any other car company... Besides Toyota fans want a Toyota built drive train because they want that Toyota reliability. The B-zax, 86 and the Supra don't have that so why should a Toyota fan car about them? Edit: Phrasing
You'd have to be a pretty shitty driver to have a car with almost 400hp and Torque, and only get a 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. My 270hp 91 Acura does that. This car is definitely hitting a mid 4 sec 0-60 with the average driver.
So how many of the people that are happy this car has a manual now will actually buy it? So many people just want manufacturers to offer it but they quickly realize it slows the car down and gets old quickly.
Toyota didn't have enough money to bring back the Supra? Yet always on the brink of bankruptcy Nissan brought back the Z without any German help. Toyota took the cheap and easy way out. And it shows.
The nissan isn't new, just a reskined 370. Right out of the gate it lost to the supra in every single test. And it costs only 2k less than the supra. So, yeah, I'll take the bmw supra over the 14 year old nissan any day.
After having to wait 11 months to get a GR86, I became very educated on Toyotas production system. The fact that I can’t order what I want and just have to roll the dice with whatever they decide to make is infuriating. I really want the new blue color with the manual on the Supra, but I don’t want to play the games I had to to get the GR over this last year. Toyota dealers and their allocation system absolutely suck.
Absolutely love the review, but that line at the beginning about Toyota not having enough money to build a supra from the ground up is total bllscchit. Toyota is one of the largest companies in the world with one of the largest and most successful racing teams in the world. I know good and well that they had enough money to build a brand new Toyota Supra from a clean sheet of paper.
Toyota, the largest car company in the world could not afford to build it's own car-seriously? Comparing this to a Porsche is just silly. This is a boy racer with fake vents.. It's miserable to get in and out of, has fake engine noise being pumped into the cabin etc. I have owned several Porsche's and they are expensive to purchase, but unlike BMW they have all been very reliable. I would suggest leasing one of these things, because at around 60k miles it will start to fall apart from the oil pan up. Take my word for it, I supply parts to the local dealers and independent shops.
It is still just a Z4 coupe, with extra ugly. It has terrible visibility. If you think this is attractive, I’m sorry, Alex, but you need to get your eyes checked. It is horrifically ugly.
