This video shows how I deleted the oil injection system on my 2024 KTM 300 EXC TBI. Webshop: www.tokyooffroad.com/ TShirts: www.storefrontier.com/store/t... Facebook: / tokyooffroad
Love my 23 TX. I did a 13/50 sprocket combo and 11 oz flywheel weight. It's the perfect trail machine for me now. I don't mind the pre mix, piece of mind for me with no oil pump.
Half a kilo empty up high in the frame is quite significant. Especially if you consider another kilo or two for the oil it contains. Less headaches in the future and the ability of mix alteration in case of running in replaced engine parts. Win win.
Super great show! Now you can order a larger fuel tank without waiting for them to be designed and, it won't have the notch designed out of it in the front. These new TBI's go through a LOT of fuel. I go on super long destination rides and I got about 55 miles out of a tank, when I get 80 miles with my TPI bikes.
You did a nice clean job once again. Thank you for making the video. On my 2022 TPI I removed the little red Oil Level Warning LED bulb with its wires similar to what you did. And seal the wiring harness conection end similar again to what you did. I never had any codes occur. I did not remove the oil tank as it it attached to the black plastic tray that holds the crankcase & atmospheric pressure sensors.
Seems that the TBI is different from the TPI. When I was at my KTM dealer I tried connecting and disconnecting the oil level warning LED and verified that when it's disconnected it throws an engine blink code, which needs to be reset with the dealer tool.
Both options are good but I like premix if I'm going to use all the fuel in one day I don't like leaving the oil and petrol mixed for any more than a day because we all know what petrol does it's a good degreaser and weakens the oil .oil injected you always getting fresh oil but that is as long as the oil injector pump is still working ok ,but you'd think in 2023 we could have a reliable oil injector system.
My 2022 300 XC TPI has been working great since I deleted the TPI and converted it to a TBI (1 injector between the reeds and throttle body) & 100% premix fuel. I removed the oil injection pump, installed a dongle into teh harness so the ECU still thinks it has a pump. Capped off the hose nipple on the throtttle body and the botom of the oil tank which is empty now. I put a sticker next to the oil fill cap that says, "Premix." Also installed a Cobber ECU and a Slavens cylinder head. Turned the air bypass screw on the throttle body from 4 turns out to around approx. 1 turn out (which richens it) and it repsonds so much better at all throttle positions and loads.
Fuel injector FYI that might help... I'm doing some testing between my TBI moto engine and TBI XCW engine. The injectors for premix and gas are different. they have different model numbers and the injector screens have different hole patterns. The premix injectors have the generic green "premix" dots on the outside and the stock XCW gas injectors have the generic red "gasoline" dots. Just something to consider as you are testing. Thanks for your videos! Very helpful.
Yes, I do know the XC and EXC injector part numbers are different, but don't know the detail of what exactly is different. My assumption is that the XC injectors flow more (due to the higher peak power). The XC also has a different map tune, cylinder head and cylinder port timing. I'll see if I can find out the detail of the injector differences. Either way my bike runs great on premix with the stock EXC injectors. I recently changed to a TSP map tune which is significantly better than the stock tune, removed the over rich partial throttle burble with good linear responsive power making it even easier to ride off-road. Really happy with how the bike performs.
The only difference I could see from the outside of the injectors were the pattern and possibly size of the very tiny holes where the fuel is sprayed. I am using the SX injectors, but they are probably the same as the XC. My bikes are 250s, and just for fun I am swapping the cylinder (for the porting change), heads, ECUs, fuel pumps and injectors. Pistons appear to be the same part numbers. I had turned my SX bike into a hard enduro, and the engine did great at low speed. Really a great motor. @@TokyoOffroad
Great vid as usual… quick question, I’ve heard that the stock fuel filter may struggle with pre mix is there any benefit to changing the fuel screen insert for a larger micron option?
Is there any cons or problem of remove oil system without remap? I'm bit concern about that stock map designed with oil system but if exc/xc-w maps are same as sx/xc then no need to worry about.
Very good movie, Bravo After two months, does anyone know what resistor can be used instead of the oil pump? We use oil in fuel from the first TPI 2018 to 2023 in the amount of 50 ml / fuel tank together with oil injection. Tpi may not be sufficiently lubricated at high engine speeds. Additionally, if the oil pump or hose fails, the engine will not seize up immediately. Tested for many years. As for TBI, I pour 40 ml into the fuel tank and it is OK, but I want to protect it against a possible oil injection failure. My KTM EXC 300 TBI Is Awesome!!! Poland
Hi, I have a tm en 125 with exactly the same fuel and oil injection system. My concern with this method without increasing the fuel injection timing is that you are actually leaning the fuel mixture which will cause an increase the combustion temperature. If the premix you are using is 60:1, you are leaning the fuel mixture by 1/60 %. I know this is equivalent of reducing a jet size in a carb bike. I bought the dealer programming tool (for a tm is an emoticom ecu software) and I’m planning on using 55:1 premix, so when I do this mod, at the same time I will increase the fuel injection time map values by 1.5% through the whole range. Just wanted to ask is this is a concern to you and you are planning on increasing the injection time to make up for the decrease in fuel or you will run the bike with stock map as the fuel leaning is very little. What I’m trying to say is that without the ecu mapping adjustment, you’re gaining reliability if a oil pump failure would happen but you’re loosing reliability because you’re leaning the fuel mixture by adding oil as premix. Here’s a Spanish mechanical engineer very impressed with the quality videos that you share. Regards
Yes, running premix will lean the fueling slightly. As you mentioned, I'm running 60:1 premix, so the difference in not actually that great. My bike felt quite rich stock, so not a a concern for me and seems to be running slightly better after removing the oil injection. If however you feel your bike is running leaning this would be something to consider.
Great vid Mark! Very informative...If I do wind up getting a 24' XCW model I would most definitely delete the oil injection. I like dirt bikes being a simple as possible...It will be hard to move on from my 18' carb bike for one of these injected models. Simple gravity feed carb does the same thing (though admittedly doesn't run as well) requiring less weight and failure points. These injected bikes just seem uneccessariy complicated.
Yes, my bike runs better after switching to premix. Most notably the mid/high range. Not sure whether this is due to the change, or the motor became fully broken in. Running well though. I can recommend running premix if you want to make the change.
You do great vids.. Thanks.. I'm considering this delete on my 2024 TE250... Did you notice any performance difference on your first ride after deleting the oil injection?
Pleased to hear that you enjoy the videos. My bike seemed to run a little better after deleting the oil injection and starting to use premix. Note that using premix will make the fueling slightly leaner. My bike stock was running rich and felt a little better with premix, but still felt rich, particularly at partial throttle and fuel consumption was very high. I then installed a Two Stroke Performance ERM power kit with medium compression head and with the TSP map the bike is running very well with much improved fuel economy.
@@TokyoOffroad Fuel economy is the Elephant in the room with these bikes!. My TE uses so much fuel but it runs super rich. Hopefully get that sorted out. Then I'll remove the oil injection. Thanks for your reply. Enjoy your bike!
Have you considered installing 300 xc map to tbi ecu? This way there would be no problems with putting resistors for the oil pump and turning off the LED light. And 300 xc is 8 hp more powerful than 300 xcw.
There are several differences between the XC and XC-W/EXC which include: The ECU map; cylinder port timing & flywheel. Personally, for the riding I do, I'm not aiming for XC type power. My goal is strong bottom end power (for good lugging at low rpm), linear increase in power for easy control, no weird burbles, or bogging. I just installed a TSP ERM Power Kit (medium comp head and ECU tune) which I'm really liking and is a significant improvement over the stock EXC map. I've made several videos about this so please check them out if interested.
could you leave the oil tanks and have them full of oil and if you run out of premix on the trail you can find some regular gas and plug the oil pump back in and then have the oil injection to get you back to your truck?
Yamahas are still carb fed and premix for a very good reason,reliability! Oh and kick only again for reliability, thats why they are selling so well,imho my Yamahas are raw and exciting to ride unlike the euro bikes Shame you cant trust the oil injection on the new euro bikes,lots of oil injection issues at recent sea to sky races!
Could you replace the oil tank level sensor with a straight link wire to mimic the sensor action when the oil tank is full, in a similar way to the oil pump dongle? I'm assuming that the sensor is short circuit when full and open circuit when low. Or is it some CAN-BUS type unit that's more complex than that?
As highlighted in the video, the oil level sensor can be unplugged and will not cause an engine light blink code. As such no work around is required. However, unplugging the LED warning light will cause an engine blink code (left my LED connected).
@@TokyoOffroad I was thinking of adding the link wire to stop the low oil light being on all the time rather than to prevent blink codes being generated. Then you wouldn't need to touch the low oil light.
I'm not sure what the limit range is regarding the ECU current low/high triggers are. The actual oil pump DC resistance measured on my oil pump was 13 Ohms. The problem if you use this low a resistor is that you'd need a high power rated resistor to avoid it getting hot. Optimally you'd choose a resistor value which results in the lowest current which is still above the ecu under current oil pump limit. For specific advice I would recommend using the online KTM forums as I didn't make my own, or test the current limit.
I was thinking last night. What would happen if you just ran 60:1 premix in both the oil tank and the gas tank in a TPI bike? Theory being that it wouldn't matter if the oil pump failed because all the fuel is mixed. Obviously there might be concern of clogged injectors, but is that really a think with a 60:1 mix with high quality 2 stroke oil? Just a thought.
With TPI the fuel injectors are located after the crankcase, at the transfer ports. The majority of the fuel will only go to the top part of the cylinder (occupy the space between the top of the piston and cylinder/head). The oil is injected at the throttle body. Running premix through the oil pump would result in the crank bearings and lower part of the piston/cylinder not get much oil (as the oil pump only injects a small amount about 1/100 the volume injected through the fuel injectors). I wouldn't recommend doing so. If you want to use premix, relocate the injectors to the reed valve block and delete the oil injection. This way the full volume of premix will flow through the crankcases, just like a carb, or TBI bike.
Should have just bought a Beta racing? In my opinion KTM builds and tunes bikes mucking around with wont it hurt ? One youtuber with the TPI bikes, stated to add oil to the tank as well!
Beta bike are very expensive in Japan. Beta parts are difficult to get here too. I know a few people who have them and ridden a few. Really wasn’t impressed. Engine vibration was high. Really didn’t feel at home riding one…
:-O The guy next to me on the start line at a recent race did that to his TPI. For my 2024 TBI, it's staying TBI as I already have a carb 300 (which I'll probably never sell). If I was considering a 2024 conversion to carb one challenge would be how to control the electronic power valve...
Yes, the injectors work fine with premix. The 2023/24 model KTM 250/300 XC TBI bikes are premix (no oil injection). The oil injection on the EXC/XCW model is there for convenience and to reduce emissions...
So is it really worth doing? Or not? If I was to change the oil pump at 90 hours, as it shows in the manual, the bike would be safe still? Iv never owned a bike like this. Iv come straight over from a carb bike 2018 GasGas so I’m learning all the time
Lot's of people don't seem to like making premix, so for those people the oil injection system is convenient. Personally I don't mind mixing up premix at all, so I prefer the simplicity and reliability of running the bike on premix. Not having to worry about the the oil injection system failing, or having to maintain it is a benefit IMO.
Thank you very much. Iv always premixed so this is all new. A lot of my pals I ride with say to leave it. They’ve not seen or heard of a pump that’s failed. Not saying it won’t happen, but I think I’m gonna leave it. Loving the videos tho!!! So informative!!
It's actually not a bad design. If you look at the problems they've had before, both KTM and Beta, when you have one tank full of oil it becomes heavy and when hitting large obstacles and the bike is thrashing around it's tough on one large bottle. The bottles have split and cracked because of how much they have to endure. Breaking the system up into two smaller bottles keeps the weight proportionate and each bottle is lighter and less suspect to cracking due to less oil weight sloshing around. The new system also keeps things out of the way and more streamlined. Having said that, what Tokyo Offload did, is the best all around solution...just remove and then use premix. It's now set up just the same as the sister KTM XC racing bike.
If I just remove the tube that injects the oil and cancel it, making the premix directly from the gas tank, could there be any damage to the engine? I don't care about problems like the fault light coming on, it's just to use it while I fix the oil pump Thanks!
You could just unplug the oil pump electrical connector, fill the tank with premix and ride. You will get an ECU blink code though which will need to be reset
460 gr, not a great deal but you forgot about the oil in it. In total over a kilo you just removed. Plus the level sensor is in the upper tank so the warning light would be going off waaaayyyyy too soon even when riding on level ground so imagine how annoying that light would be in hard enduro.
The light is tucked back by the odometer readout and when it's on it doesn't blink, it just stays lit. I've had mine on when running the first tank out and you forget the light is there really. You can also just tuck a rag or glove over the light... or place a piece of black tape over it if it really does bother you. Also, the back portion of the light just pulls out of the stem, so you don't even need tools to pull it out of the dash and then you could let it hang below by the back of all the headlight wires with no issue.
The oil pump delete resistor dongle I used is a Two Storke Performance one, part number on the package is P.IRK.Delete and the description on the package is TSP IRK Oil-Pump Delete Kit
Do you think that the inectors will get cloged by premix duel bcs fuel will be a little denser (tihcker). The bike may not get enough fuel bcs of premix fuel? Do you think you should put in xc injectors they might be a little biger bics of the premix?
No, the injectors do not become clogged running premix. There is no need to change to XC injectors. Stock my bike was running too rich. When I switched to premix (I use 60:1 high octane pump gasoline and Motorex Crosspower 2T) it seemed to run slightly better, but still too rich. Now I’m using a Two Stroke Performance ERM power kit (medium comp head) and have the ability to adjust fuel, but currently it’s running great on the base TSP map.
@@TokyoOffroad When i bought my tbi husqvarna 250 my bike was stock runing too lean when i was riding mx track bike shut down itself... now i adjusted tps sensor to 400mV it was at 380mV do you think this might been a problem?
@@Motors4LifeOfficial Yes, the TPS setting is important and can make a significant difference. A 0.38V setting will run quite a bit leaner than the standard 0.4V setting.
@@TokyoOffroad do you think what might be the problem fuel pump? When i'm riding mx track on throotle the bike is shuting down... and starts runing lean today i had half tank and then i refiled it worked fine....
@@Motors4LifeOfficial Check the inline fuel filter. Change the filter if clogged. Make sure you have enough fuel in the tank to ensure it's not a fuel pick-up issue. If you can measure the fuel pressure that would be good to do: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-n9EVFgPZCKY.htmlsi=t9xbAZ0MiA_7ubzl
The ecu monitors the current going to the oil pump and has over and under current limits, which if exceeded will trigger an engine light blink code. If you shorted out the connector it would result in an over current fault. A resistor is required...
i feared that@@TokyoOffroad , thank you. just hard to get a delete dongle where i live :(. If anyone knows what resistor to use i could build it myself
Using premix will make the bike run very slightly leaner than using the oil injection. My bike was excessively rich on the stock map and ran slightly better with premix. However, if you feel that your bike is running lean you should be cautious about switching to premix and consider using a new tune if you want to switch. I currently use the TSP ERM which allows you to adjust the fuel map, ignition and power valve. I’m still using the baseline TSP map, haven’t tweaked anything and bike is running very well with premix.
@@TokyoOffroad Thanx, me also. A friend has a carbureted 2017 and her uses 60:1 and I recall that is what his manual says to use. I might consider 50:1 if I was racing it and running the poop out of it but that will never be in my future.
@@human1513 I use Motorex Crosspower 2T. 60:1 is what's recommended and what I've used, with good results with my carb bikes for the riding I do. If using a different oil the recommended ratio may be different...
Personally I've never had any problems with oil injection on my TPI bikes, but I have heard of some oil injection failures and the repair cost is very expensive if it happens. I prefer the simplicity of running premix. Regarding resale, I am keeping the tank and pump and I'll reinstall it when I sell the bike, unless the buyer doesn't want it fitted.
im quite new here around these topics.... so i have a few questions... respectfully :) and i hope they wont somehow offend u... 1. So u basically turn the bike from tbi to tpi and made it thinks that it still is tbi? 2. what is the advantage of running premix(TPI) instead of running it separately, with the help of oil pump(TBI)? 3. what is wrong with TBI? 4. if u wanted to convert it ? why not stay with the 2023 model?
1. No it’s still TBI. The fuel injectors are still mounted on the throttle body (Throttle Body Injection). The only change was to stop injecting oil into the reed valve and use premix instead. 2. The advantage of using premix is it’s more reliable than the oil injection system. 3. I like TBI. Note that the XC model TBI bikes do not have oil injection and require premix. 4. The 2023 is TPI with the injectors mounted on the cylinder. I prefer the TBI system (very good bottom end power) which easily allows you to use premix.
@@TokyoOffroad so u just basically switched from separating the two liquids into using premix, while still using TBI system? 1. how much more reliable? can u give some comparison? 2. is there nothing wrong with using oil pump? (asking, cause my closest dealership from KTM is like 4-5hours of drive... and i wouldnt want to spent it, just to get some lights off(that LED indicator error) ) 3. Wasnt the bike constructed to it will be using oil pump? what happend when u, just now, made some changes to the bike? will it have some consequences?
@@just0watch373 Yes, that's right. 1. The oil injection could fail for multiple different reasons, including oil pump failure, electrical wire/connector issue, oil hose failure/detachment, no oil in the tank. I do not have any data regarding the number of failure on TPI bikes. Occasionally see bikes failed on FB groups so not zero. 2. I think the KTM oil injection system is relatively reliable, but running premix is more reliable. 3. The fueling will run slightly leaner when using premix as there is less fuel injected by volume. I'm using 60:1 premix so the difference is quite small. If anything, my bike seems to run a bit better than when I was using the oil injection. Today's ride it was certainly the best it's performed so far.
Sir i want to put vforce4x on and use the bike with premix i dont want to delete the oil pump and sensors can i just buy the pulm dongle put it on and use the bike like that without problem?
Yes, install the VForce reed valve, unplug the oil pump connector, plug the oil pump resistor dongle into the oil pump cable connector and start using premix. Be sure not to disconnect the oil injection oil level warning light, or an ECU engine code will flash on the dash.
@@enduroid I'm using a resistor dongle from Two Stroke Performance which is shown here: www.twostrokeperformance.com.au/product/injector-relocation-kit-pre-mix-kit/
I don't get it. You delete the oil pump for reliability yet you are running a first year TBI system that relies on battery voltage, a tiny fuel injector, fuel pump and all the electronics to make it work. All that without the possibility to add a kick starter. I run a 2019 300XC and have no desire to dive into the world of complexity and failure points of the new models. My bike is tuned perfectly for me with a Smart Carb, clutch weight and V Force reeds. I can't imagine a TBI could run better especially at the cost of reliability. You are obviously aware that the fuel injected 2 strokes are available for emissions requirements and not performance. KTM would have stayed with carburators if they could have. The cost savings would be huge and they would sell the bikes for the same price.
If the fuel injectors, or battery fail, yes, the bike stops running, but no damage is caused. If the oil pump stops working the engine will seize, typically requiring the piston, rings, cylinder, and crank to be rebuilt. That’s why I think it’s advantageous to delete the oil injection if you value reliability over convenience
I didn't delete TBI. It's still throttle bodyfuel injection. All I did was delete the oil injection and run premix instead (just like the 2023/24 KTM 300 XC TBI).
I've only known two people here in Japan who owned a Sherco 300s and they both had problems getting spare parts for them. One is on a KTM now and the other a Husky. Similar story for Beta, which are very expensive here and parts difficult to get. KTMs certainly aren't perfect, but from all the current choices it's the bike I personally prefer.
I'm in Canada and have a 2021 beta 200rr as well as a 2022 sherco 300 factory and find the same issue exists here. I enjoy riding both bikes but like any other brand, they have issues and like in Japan, parts for these are both expensive and difficult to get. I plan to get the 2024 xcw next and will delete the oil injection. Thanks for posting this video. Very clear explanation. Unfortunate that you have to repeat answers to questions that were given in the video so often in the comments.
I rode some Beta bikes the end of last year at a test ride event. Just like any brand of bike they have plus and minus points. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1vwuXrOP6Lc.html
Disconnecting the oil level sensor is no problem and will not cause an ECU engine light blink code. But the oil level warning LED must be left connected. If the LED is disconnected and the engine runs an ECU blink code will occur which can only be cleared using the KTM dealer tool.
I discussed in the video why I chose to delete the oil injection system. I consider using premix more reliable than using an oil injection system. If the oil pump fails the top end (cylinder, piston, head), conrod and crankshaft will typically require replacement. It doesn't appear to be a common failure, but does happen occasionally.
Sorry that you don't like the video format. I usually talk about why I do mods as some people are new to these bikes and find this information helpful in deciding whether they want to do the same, or not.
