The problem is that this race showed me that you can’t pass on the outside anymore because the driver on the inside just sees you coming and pushes you wide knowing the other driver will get a penalty. I mean how many times did that happen in this race! Was so frustrating to watch.
Unfortunately that has been the case for a while now. No shot they actually fix it either. Most F1 fans don't realize it kills the racing because the driver on the outside is practically always forced to yield.
@@eddieyakin5528 That's what I am saying. If there was more issues with the outside driver purposefully being pushed off the track everyone would love it. What's better than a pass around the outside or a corner!?!?!
That’s racing 🤷 if it’s on a track with gravel it would be the same thing, no one would try it. It’s why the golden rule for the last 100 years of racing has always been inside line has the advantage
It happens EVERY time someone tries to pass crashstappen on the outside. He threatens the crash. They avoid and pass him. They get penalized. Its bullshit.
Can’t believe I met Matt, predicted a Charles win, witnessed a Ferrari 1-2 all in my first GP in person. (Im a diehard Ferrari fan). I genuinely had such an amazing time!!
Yeah and the pundits on sky still make out it's just lando and max in the fight for the championship. Does my head in. Lando is just as far away as Charles etc im a Brit but I can't stand the coverage, so biased..
@@hippy420Charles is another 22 points back. Charles needs 2-3 Max DNF's to have a shot. It's also done for Norris btw, 12 points per weekend isnt gonna happen. Edit: I do think Charles/Ferrari will rue the post Monaco disaster. In those 4 races + 1 sprint he scored only 12 out of a possible 108 points. Had he just scored consistent P4-P5's on average he'd have been ahead of Lando and on like 40-50 points from Max.
This "first to the apex" argument needs clarification. Max will always make sure he is first to the apex and ensure that he stays on track. BUT, by doing so, he forces another driver off the track and does not get penalized. Being first at the apex should not void other rules. The only option the other driver has is to leave the track or cause a collision. The second incident is also a grey area as Max left the track also to ensure Lando had no space to overtake on the outside. I think that if the defending driver also leaves the track that the overtake should stand as Lando had no choice but to leave the track and Max made the error of going off it.
@@mexicanopdb Yeah Lando is consistently top 5. One DNF can ruin Max's free run. And now Ferrari is threatening 2nd in constructors so Max with more pressure and safety cars back, it could be bad
My problem is, that if you deliberately let your car leave the track, to completely eliminate the optioins of your competitor, that is not racing. Any outside overtaking attempt can be totally nullified by slowing down and driving off the track and forcing your competitor off with you. This is not racing.
@@anitabiswas8779 Max should have at least stayed on the track himself the only reason he was ahead at the apex was because not in a million years would he have got through the corner ON the track
@@anitabiswas8779 actually in this case every other player gets penalized, case in point George Russell in the same fucking race. So yeah it's just FIA protecting their boy. This isn't racing.
Exactly. The only thing hitting the apex first is supposed to do is give you the right to the racing line, which in no circumstances goes off track. It doesn't allow you to exceed track limits. If the FIA wants to set the precedent that a racing line can go off track then they can't say the driver on the outside doesn't get to continue to race as well. They're basically saying that the inside car can take the race off track with no penalty and the outside car neither has control of that or is allowed to respond. It just creates sloppy racing with divebombs from halfway down the straight with no incentive to make the corner
they talked about it in the race that its not really an option due to the track being used for other categories. gravel trap there would send motorbikes flying
@@kaly3877 but surely with the amount of money f1 makes it doesn't cost that much to put a gravel trap there for the race and remove it after. would be a much better way for the FIA to spend money!
I'm good with the Lando penalty but they had to give Max a forcing a driver off the track. He got the apex only because he divebombed and couldn't keep it on track
@pvstar1323 why would that be? Max getting a penalty or not would not determine Norris getting a strike or not since he got one anyways. If anything a driver forcing another off the track penalty could (still undecided on if it should) mean the car pushed off doesn't get a strike counted against them
Max did not divebomb he was on the inside when Lando attempted the overtake, Max isn’t simply going to let his championship rival around the outside so easily. Thinking he would let that happen is stupid given his history of racing. Plus all the successful overtakes on that corner aren’t on the outside for a reason the guy defending will take the inside line and on exit will drive as wide as possible to shut the door so thinking you’re going to get any space to overtake on that tight corner is a bit optimistic.
@joebro7280 max outbraked himself to the point he couldn't keep it on track when he knows there is a car on the outside. that's a divebomb. He didn't lock up or have understeer, he outbraked himself when Lando had his nose ahead into the braking zone
Norris went on the throttle as soon as he noticed he would go off track. He shot past because of that. In otherwords: hevused the of track part ti overtake.....
Impressive racing from Colapinto and Lawson. Yes, championship battle is probably off but still there a lot things to enjoy. And 2025 looks very promising
I think it also says something about the current formula that you can take kids straight out of F2, or a guy who hasn't raced a car in a year, and slam them into the car with little to no testing and have them be immediately competitive. Not to take anything away from the lads, they both did a great job. I'm a fan of Danny Ric but he'd had his day so it's good to see Lawson get his time in the sun.
Tommy’s rant at the end about the absurd $$ you have to pay nowadays is spot on. Thanks Netflix! I’m a Dutch guy that’s been living in the US for +20 years and Austin used to be cheap and I loved going there, but no one in the US liked or even knew F1. When F1 announced Miami I was like great, I have family there so free stay, but then I saw the ticket prices 😢
The consistency from the FIA was incredible this week. On one corner: 5 people got forced off wide and the FIA ignored the situation. 2 drivers got forced off, which resulted in the car that stayed on the track to get a penalty. 2 drivers got forced off, which resulted in the car that was forced off to get a penalty. What was the difference between these situations? The outcome. But you know, we don't judge incidents based on outcome. What frustrates me the most is that 100% of the instances where the car that was forced off and the FIA just ignored the instance because they yielded, would actually be a penalty for the car that did the forcing, if the car that was forced off DIDN'T yield and there was contact. This forces the cars being pushed out to risk damage just to get the right to the space. It's ridiculous. Avoiding contact should never change the outcome of an incident as far as penalties are concerned.
@@gregorypachis795 Reminds me of the race where Lewis kept going outside the track for 27 or so laps and when Max overtook him using same amount of space, they were like give the position back
The difference is in whether or not the overtaking car has the right to the corner (and be alongside the defending car) or not. Unlike video games, cars cannot pass through each-other. So the inside car could just place there car in front of another in the corner car and block their way. Both sides of the battle can do this. To solve this problem and allow overtaking on the outside (because that makes for better racing). You can earn the right to be alongside. If you do, the other car is not allowed to block you and leave space enough for you to make the corner on track. If not the other car does not have to leave room and can take the widest possible corner. Which is the real issue, was the overtaking driver alongside at the apex or not. This decides if you can or cant be pushed of the track. In the verstappen/Norris for example: The FIA decision said Norris was not ahead at the apex and thus had no right to room in the corner. So max didn't push him off because he had no right there in the first place. This also means Norris being there was not max's fault and therefor the overtake was considered as an overtake off the track. At which it makes no difference if max himself was on or off the track at that time. If he was alongside, he had the right for the space on the track. Which would have meant max pushed him off. Which means max would have most likely gotten a penalty and since they both went off would not have needed to give the place back.
Its nice to hear tommy speak about how expensive the event is. Saturdays action was the first formula 1 event ive been to and the prices of everything is unbelievable. My 23$ korean corn dog keeps me up at night from guilt.
Imo both Lando and Max deserved a penalty. I'm so tired of seeing Max intentionally run people off-track and also himself so that any overtake would be deemed illegal, it's happened time and time again. Whilst Lando's move is illegal and i don't get why McLaren didn't tell him to give it back, it's a frustrating watch for a fan as I don't think Lando letting himself not be bullied is a bad thing- he took the risk and paid for it. I also want to clarify Max is exploiting the rulebook such as the legends before him, and credit to him for that: It's what the best do. For a fan however it does make for a bad sporting experience, I'm no Max-fan (I'm not against him either) but surely fans out there would have to agree that the rules should reward cleaner racing as opposed to what Max has displayed here.
Please don't Interpret this as me making some comment about the skill or talent of either driver. I'm not even saying they shouldn't be doing these things. I'm just saying the rules as they stand are begging for these situations to occur. Obviously Max will also have figured as any rational human that if they crash it's very good for him. I do not in any way think Max would do this intentionally, but I think it plays part in Max doing more moves in the gray area, again as any driver on the grid would do in his position.
I think that if max stayed on track then none of these conversations would be discussed. It’s just doesn’t seem like racing. Eventually someone is going to get tired of that move and just hold the line they need to take and start causing crashes if max tries to push them wide.
💯 agree even if Lando was a also a reg penalty Max literally pushed him off as he on purpose web to the edge or they would have crashed out…the video are clear on this one
Lando should have gotten a penalty for illegally overtaking. The problem is Max should also have had a penalty as he didn’t even try and make the corner... How is that not forcing another driver off the track? You can defend using an out of control dive but not overtake? The “Rules of Engagement” on overtaking needs a look at.
Yea but for the inside driver who was ahead at the apex, they have the right to be like: I’m not going to give you any space so you’re either going off the track or you’re backing off. If the outside driver goes off the track, then that’s bc he didn’t back off.
Max did the same thing as Lando did. On lap 1 when Carlos overtook him on the same bend, both drivers were off track and Max accelerated hard to keep the position. That is not a lap 1 justified call by the FIA. Turn 1 is debatable, but not a few corners after. Tommy doesnt bring this thing up when talking about the penalty that Norris got for it.
If it was a penalty, it should have been for both of them: one for overtaking outside the limits, one for forcing the other guy out. Other drivers got a penalty for doing it, Max didn’t, and he did it twice. Because let’s face it: he often brakes too late to take the corner himself, forcing himself and the other guy out, and ends up in front without a penalty. That’s nonsense! And to make things clear, I don’t support either of them.
I think it's because Lando went very wide offtrack if only he stuck himself closer to max and did not pull away as much as he did. Maybe Max would've also gotten a penalty.
I think after this long every driver knows Max is gonna brake late so It is kind of psychological, but still lando could have closed the doors on Max on turn 1. It would have been better for him but ok, and to be honest I still cannot decide how is one driver getting penalty but other is not, you are totally right, they both would have gotten penalties aur maybe a warning first
He can brake as late as he wants and defend how he likes as long as he’s ahead on the apex, its his corner and the trailing driver has to yield and try another way of overtaking, either by beating Max to the inside line or brake earlier and getting him on exit. You keep trying to go around he will continue doing this as its the easiest way to defend that corner and theres nothing illegal about it. The Ferraris showed you how to attack that corner the day before.
As someone who thinks it shouldn't be a penalty, Max didn't keep any of his wheels within the track. I have the same opinion of this corner as Brazil 21
Edit* I disagree. Because Lando continued to accelerate to gain an advantage when he was off the track. End of story. If he would have stayed equal to max or slowed down to allow Max to get the position back things might have been different. -Removed my thought of Max staying in track limits. I rewatched and he was off.
@@makkert I think that's the right take: the rules are clear, but inadequate/flawed. There is so much more to a corner/overtake than "at the apex". FIA is applying a grossly oversimplified test to complex situations and getting inconsistent outcomes, in terms of what's fair.
And why doesn't Tommy talk about the lap 1 overtake atempt by Carlos on Max? Exactly the same scenario as with Norris. Both drivers were off track when Carlos went on the inside and Max just drove super wide and keeping his throttle on for him to be able to stay in front. Such BS all in all
If the defending driver is ahead at the apex because they brake too late to make the corner, pushing the attacking driver off the track in the process, it makes no sense to me to give the attacker a penalty for holding on to the position
the attacking driver should know you’re not getting round the outside on Max. This isn’t Maxs 1st year in F1 theres a history of how you don’t attack him without coming worse off. Lando already knew Max was on the inside and wouldn’t just let him by so his best option was to get him on exit by braking earlier.
I mean Hamilton also did it in Abu Dhabi, he didn't get penalized tho, it's just FIA is inconsistent most of the times. I'd like to think that even tho there were no more team radio the pressure sometimes get to the FIA and then they will be confused what to do because they are thinking about the fans opinion, Or maybe not and they're just silly old people 😅
I mean Hamilton also did it in Abu Dhabi, he didn't get penalized tho, it's just FIA is inconsistent most of the times. I'd like to think that even tho there were no more team radio the pressure sometimes get to the FIA and then they will be confused what to do because they are thinking about the fans opinion, Or maybe not and they're just silly old people 😅
@@joebro7280 Why dose it change the rules just because max is always doing it. Fernando Alonso: All the time you have to leave the space You can not brake as late as you want and go of track to defend. Everybody can defend this way there is no telent needet in driving strigth. Max is often on the line and that is what i like him for but the rules should applay for everybody.
The big issue is that max, who was behind at that point, just decided to brake so late that he was never going to make the corner just to be able to push Lando wide. He did it twice. If in the current regulations, pushing a driver off the track to overtake or defend after they got past is okay, they need to fix the regulations. McLaren was right to have Lando keep the position, even if lando got 5s for „overtaking off track“, it should have cancelled out by max getting 5s for pushing a driver off track. It’s the inconsistent ruling that is frustrating. George and Oscar got a penalty for that, but when it’s max, they let it slide twice. The fact that we all predicted that was going to be what max does shows how it can’t be ignored as a lap 1 „incident“, and incident is not something you planned and executed knowing they will let you get away with it
Penalty for Lando should have been 10s, according to the rules. But they gave him 5 because he was pushed off. Would have been the same. It's what they explained anyway.
George and Oscar weren't ahead. That's the difference and it's in the rules. The drivers who fought them made sure they were alongside. Lando could've done the same, or do the switchback if Max won't make the corner. Also: Lando should've gotten 10 seconds according to the rules, AND it was his fourth track limit which is another 5 seconds. They didn't do those because Max didn't make the corner... But he could've had a lot more penalties
Lando should've covered the inside or he should've braked earlier and switched back. If Max then goes off then he'll have to concede the position. Lando should've done better
Yeah, Lando overtaking outside the track shall be a penalised, but Max pushing him should be a penalty too. It's not that Lando decided to overtake there, Max was the inside car and he was also outside of the track after all
The fact that the official policy is that you can blatantly disregard the rules on lap 1 turn 1 is ridiculous. Contact in the chaos is one thing but completely pushing a driver off the track is another in my mind.
its a turn 1 incident and honestly Lando left the door open when in the same position Max eliminates the chance that happens to him by completely shutting the door on anyone trying to get on the inside of him.
@joebro7280 his point is that it being a turn 1 lap 1 incident shouldn’t be a valid excuse. Forcing another driver off of the track shouldn’t be allowed.
Exactly. If there was a wall or gravel instead of asphalt run off then both would be out of the race. Or way way down the order. That is how these incidents should be policed
@@joelallen8425 don’t allow another driver to beat you inside then, shut the door and eliminate the possibility you get pushed wide because you’re on the outside. If you don’t defend well you open yourself to attack which will place you at a disadvantage
@@joebro7280he wasn’t beaten inside, Max just decided that turning in the first corner was optional so of fucking course he’d be ahead going Mach 1 into the corner
Lando didn't accelerate to overtake him over the track, Max didn't bother making a corner because he knew he lost that exchange so he did what he knows works and pushed him off so it would be deemed "off the track". I would agree with Tommy if Max made the corner, not even leave enough space for him, just make the corner but he didn't, he went way out as well.
I mean I agree with Tommy on how you can't just get ahead at the apex and then send it wide on the outside off the track and overtake, but Max basicly did the same thing only on the inside line... He went into the corner with such a speed he had no way of making the corner and went off track himself.
No the problem is that you CAN do that, it’s within the rules and max played that to his advantage. Should the rules be changed, yes. Was it a penalty by the rules, yes. Morally was it right for max to do, no, but was it legal, yes
@@sammoore3687Yep. Summed up perfectly. Max plays the rules, as they currently stand, like a maestro. No point whatsoever in whinging about it. It is what it is.
The fact Max ALSO left the track shows he definitely guided Lando off of the track, HOWEVER, that wasn't what the argument was, it was did he overtake Max off the track and the answer was a clear YES. Now you can argue Max should've gotten a penalty for forcing Norris off the track, perhaps but there's no debate about Norris overtaking off of the track.
I think this is true and why people are up in arms about it. They should have penalised both or neither. And it’s shifty from Max again / FIA letting him get away with one (again).
What are you talking about in what world should a driver be rewarded for make non-competetive moves like that. The context that is necessary is that Verstappen did that TWICE in the race screwing over Norris in the process. So in reality it should be Norris with a 5 second time penalty and Verstappen with a 10 second time penalty not neutral. At turn 1 lap 1 he knew he was not going to make the corner and still chose to divebomb Norris because he knew that at the very least both of them would get overtaken and when Norris only shot at the world title is the outscore him significantly and win races its clear to why he did that. And later in the race Norris had the pace and he defended by forcing him off the track once again not even attempting to leave any space. Genuinely frustrating to the point I will not watch any more F1 until next season genuinely shocking.
@@pmor4272 That wouldn't work unfortunately, Max move is up for debate because there's some discretion there, he was ahead, they can argue he was defending his position or he just ran too wide (although I think the fact he ran off says enough) but just from an objective standpoint, they can make that argument. No argument can be made in Landos scenario, the rules are very clear. Sure, guys may get away with it on the opening lap but after that, there's no room for discretion. It's clear cut that if you gain a position while going off the track you either have to give up the position or you'll receive a penalty. I think Max should've gotten a penalty which would've cancelled each other out but again, there's room for discretion in his situation vs no room in Landos.
@@aqua_still_useless4384 Again, too many of you are too emotional and don't understand incidents are exclusive/separate. Lando getting a penalty has nothing to do with "context" it's in the rulebook. It's the same reason why we've seen guys get "forced" off the track and still gotten track limits. Why? Because the driver chose to take that risk. That doesn't mean the driver that forced him off the track was in the right either. Two things can be true at once but you're talking about rules that allows the stewards to have a little discretion vs rules that are not up for debate like speeding in the pit lane, leaving the track, gaining an advantage while leaving the track etc... You only really get some leeway on the opening lap. That's how it's been for a long time. Again, there's no debate whether Lando should've gotten a penalty. That is a slam dunk penalty. Nobody should be debating that. What everyone should be asking is why Max wasn't under review for forcing Lando off the track at the end.
8:57 saying that the Russell penalty made no sense when he broke the rules you say gave Max the right to force lando off and not even make the corner himself makes absolutely no sense. People seem to think that just because you’re on the inside, you’re entitled to everything. Currently drivers can just out-brake themselves, not even make the corner and as long as they make it to the apex first they’re fine
Its so disappointing to hear Tommy justify the penalty on Lando (which is correct by the rules) but completely gloss over the fact that Max didnt get a penalty for force Lando off the track in the same manoeuvre. The rules state that you must leave a cars width if a car is either side. Max 100% should have received a penalty for the same incident that Lando did. You cant flat out agree with one rule but then forget that another rule exists. Max deliberately drove off the track knowing that Lando couldnt turn in until he did. Max's driving was amazing, he knew just where to place the car and how to deploy his battery, almost perfect driving, but it doesnt change the rules.
And the other rule of leaving the track and gaining an advantage. If Max had stayed on the track it's possible he could have lost the position, preventing the loss of position by going off track means you either get a penalty or hand over the position. Either way, Max should receive a penalty.
It’s not divebombing if you are in front Added later: sorry, I thought this was about the overtake of Lando at the end of the race. Clearly it’s about turn 1 after the start. But nevertheless, others are not punished for these things at the start/lap1…like Lando in spain pushing Max in to the grass…so it is right not to penalise Max.
Max was objectively in front of Norris. The issue was that with the line he took, did he stay on the track at the end of the turn? FIA said he did but it is pretty close.
@@SafakYokolma If I took T1 at 150mph I'd also temporarily be in front. Does that mean the car that sideswiped me moments before I careened into the wall is at fault cause they should've seen my divebomb coming?
Here's my argument on the max/lando situation. Max did not get penalized in austria for keeping his foot in off the track at turn 3 to get back past lando after out braking himself. The fact that Lando was penalized for doing the exact same thing Max got away with prior is absurd. The argument last time was that max felt he was being forced off the track, despite lando making the corner in Austria. Max couldn't even make the corner in cota. It's an absurd ruling.
The closer Matt and Tommy get with F1, the more they ignore the obvious bias within it. They never discussed whether VER should have got a penalty at the end. That's a joke to overlook that,
Max did it twice which just makes it more frustrating when they were handing out 5 second time penalties for everyone else. We just want consistency on the penalties but Max just seems to get the decisions every time.
This is poor analysis from Tommy. It makes zero sense for a driver to be allowed to deliberately outbreak themselves to defend. Norris was getting close to max at 0.7s behind coming into the DRS zone. Nearly overtook him from 0.5s. This time we were at 0.3s. Lando was ahead so far before the corner. Max’s solution? Hug the inside and refuse to break. I do wonder if there was any smoking coming out of Max’s wheels the stewards and Tommy would view this differently.
Lando should have anticipated, maybe try a switch back. But he just tried the same thing over and over. I don't get why he couldn't even overtake him on the straight with that speed advantage. Or when Max locked up, that happened twice too. Sure Max defended hard, but fair in my opinion. A better, or just more calm driver in that McLaren would have overtaken him. This one is on Lando.
Verstappen vs Norris: In my opinion it was "legal" in a sense that both left the track and gained an advantage. So giving both a 5s penalty or neither of them
These are the best of the best drivers. They know how to drive. If you force someone off the track and you yourself go off the track, there should be no penalties if someone overtakes. That shows you are deliberately trying to take someone out. If you do the same on the inside and cut over, you create a crash or get a penalty. It’s not racing if you’re literally not driving within the track limits
That race showed that even if Max is driving a F2 car, he will force you off track, himself included and still gonna give him the position back. It's a shame.
Then both leclerc ans sainz should have gotten 5 sec yesterday for "dive bombing" and ofrcing a driver of track yesterday, but they didnt. Norris pitwall was just slow should have given the position back and tried again with a clearly faster car
Max has proven so many times over the years that he will just run you wide and not be penalised. Think back to 2021 with Lewis, he proved it there and he knows he won't get a penalty for pushing someone wide.
As a RACE fan tho, i would have actually rather see them running each other wide offtrack unpenalized in silverstone and monza, than what actually happened to be honest. Would have resulted in 2 way better races BY FAR
If Max crashes with Lando (both first lap and final laps) dive-bombing or defending outside the track limits, because of Lando not giving space and not caring for a possible dnf, Tommy would be saying different things about penalties and stuff.
It's either double 5 second penalties or racing incident. I hate how much open discussion there is about when we apply the rules and when we don't. Let's also not forget what Max did to Sainz on the first lap. If Lando gets a penalty for his passing off the track then Max deserved one on lap 1 as well
Sainz caused Max to go offtrack but Max was ahead when that happened and when he rejoined he was in the same position he was when Sainz attempted the overtake therefore he didn’t gain an advantage unlike Norris who overtook offtrack when Max was ahead at the apex. The fact Sainz didnt make a fuss about it should tell you Sainz knew he had nothing to complain about and didnt get on the radio to have the stewards look at that action on track.
Ahead when? cause on the replay, Sainz is ahead on the apex just like max, and both go outside and Sainz has to pull back because he pushed max off but no penalty for either of them
You need to ask.. George went 2 wheels off against Bottas and got a penalty... Max went 4 wheels off at turn 1 with no penalty. Then the end of the race Norris was ahead coming into the corner, then Max on the inside STILL went all 4 wheels off. Max being the car behind must leave a cars width on the outside. So Max twice should get a penalty. 5 seconds for the lap 1. Then 10 second stop and go for the second
And why doesn't anyone talk about the pass Carlos tried on Max? That went exactly like with Max and Norris at the final laps. Both were off track and Max accelerated hard on the outside to keep the position. Lap 1 rules don't apply anymore at T12.
Max Went off twice just in lap 1, to overtake Norris and to overtake Saiz . Wirh Saiz happened what happened to Max and Norris. Where Sainz had the insid line, Max overtook outside the track and kept position and no penalty
The difference is that Russel atttacked and Max defended. It is total BS, but Rule wise this is the dividing factor. Apparently you can do these things when defending and you were at the apex first and when you look at Max, he is a master in abusing this rule to his advantage.
@@Andrea-vl6mf No, in lap 1 Verstappen was ahead of Sainz before they went off track. Sainz was the one overtaking off track and lifted afterwards to give the position back. In both cases Verstappen is the one being overtaken off track
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Max also keep his position to Carlos in lap 1 turn 12 by going way off track? You could also argue there that Carlos was ahead at the apex. Similar situation, both cars went off track but Max kept his position by accelerating off track.
@@oudloek But if Max was behind at the apex, that technically means he overtook Sainz off the track... According to FIA their own rules it should be a 5 second penalty then. Or give sainz a penalty for pushing Max off track. But in that scenario they'd have to give Max a penalty for pushing Lando off track too. Either way they are inconsistent. (imo both incidents should have been no penalty, but the FIA is, as always, super inconsisent.)
Any debate is pretty much moot with Lando's radio. He KNEW he incurred a penalty. After the race, he clearly knew he had a penalty and didn't even protest it. He then suggests he should have been told to give it back. (After he gets out of the car, yeah, he turns on PR mode to play innocent) That clearly showed that Lando knew what he did and that he deserved a penalty. Even the beloved Brundle said it was a penalty and he absolutely hates Max and RB. The rules are clear. People just don't like it, understand it, or they just don't like Max. That's the common theme between the objectors.
Tommy talking about how he hates “ahead at the apex” when that’s literally what Max does every time He’s “ahead at the apex” but doesn’t make the corner
Colapinto is just 7 points behind Albon and the Williams has been looking very good recently. If he somehow manages to pull it off, Vowles is going to have some very hard decisions to make during the winter. The way Colapinto has absolutely crushed it every single race so far. Singapore was an absolutely jaw dropping performance every single session. He was pushing the car as close to the wall and driving with the confidence of someone who had driven around Singapore for many years when it was only his 3rd race. I think we're going to see Albon alongside Sainz before any decisions about Colapinto are made. If Sainz knocks it out of the park against Albon in the opening races, Vowles might make the decision to prioritize his own junior driver.
Also, to your point at 15:16 Lando has already tried being aggressive with Max and got wrecked for it. I don’t blame him for being hesitant. Max has shown over and over and over, even if he takes himself out, he would rather crash than let anyone challenging him get passed.
This, I was thinking the same watching it. Lando was probs worried about dnfing after a collision with Max and then that’s also Leclerc right behind him in the championship. I think people are being too harsh about Lando this race, especially considering how he outperformed the car this weekend compared to Piastri.
Tommy : Lando overtaking outside of the track is 100 illegal Also, Tommy : Max pushing off Lando is "annoying" Tell me you are biased without telling me you are biased 😂
26:12 With the consistency that Lawson has showed from when he did his 6 race stint in 2023 and him already getting points with being back for 1 race, I think it's a great shout. Tsunoda has been amazing when it comes to getting points but with him also making a mistake like spinning in T1, Red Bull need consistency and not minor mistakes.
I went to my first gp this year, Montreal, and yes absolutely the fan experience is so scuffed and absurd. I paid for an experiences package and couldn't have been more disappointed. Thanks for speaking about this topic
I get it, you can't pass off track, however, Max was late on the brakes, missed the corner, pushed Lando wide and they were both fully off the track, yet Lando gets the penalty, sets a bad precedent for dirty defending imo. But, as Lando was saying, should have just given it back and had another crack at it if it felt iffy rather than leaving it to the chance of the Stewards. Like, Brundle was saying, slam dunk, Max was ahead at the Apex, well, yeah because he came off the breaks and missed the corner completely.
Max should get a 5-second penalty for forcing another driver off the track AND Lando should get a 5-second penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. They would basically be offsetting penalties. If Max stays on the track, then only Lando is penalized.
2:17 If you are allowed to keep your position by going off-track, than in that situation you should be allowed to gain a position by going off-track as well…Max had 0 intention of making a corner neither at the start neither in lap 52…
My problem is max went off the track so there qas no possible way lando could of stayed on the track so in my opinion both should of been penalised as max didn't leave a cars width which lando was entitled to and lando gained by going off the track and overtaking
Max has a cheer code that he uses in these situations at this point. He does the same things and says the same things every time !! And he does it both ways, he forces people off and complains, then he gets forced off and overtakes and complains they forced him off!! He can’t have it both ways?!
Hey guys! Been a fan of you for years! After watching the podcast I will definately say my opinion of Lando V Verstappen has changed slightly, I'm not a youngster either but Me and my Dad watch F1 together and (as a British fan) was genuinely fine with turn 1, lap 1. Starts are different, the thing that bothered me was that so many incidents were looked at during the race, you would think it would at least be looked at (turn 1 lap 1), especially the circumstances of the championship. Cmon, I got good general knowledge and when you guys said about what happened later in the race Lando accelerating on the outside that did change my mind a little on that.. But when you're on the inside, the corner is tighter, you need to break earlier to turn.. I haven't seen the telemetry but assuming Lando breaked normal on the racing line.. There's no way Verstappen should be braking later on the inside.. Logic.. Which is the only reason why he was ahead at the apex.. Clever and bending the rul3es maybe.. I don't agree it's right. Also, the track limit penalities need to be looked at differently if an overtake or defense is involved and penalities should applied for that, not track limits, tracvk limits should be more if gain an advanatage pushing. Other than that, track limit penalities or illegal overtakes should be 10 second penalities in my opinion, if you can make a gap it is not a penality in my opinion.
Lando wouldn’t have overtaken off track if Max hadn’t left the braking and ran off track himself knowing Lando was on the outside… racing incident was the proper call
What about Max on outside of Sainz at the same corner, there is literally no difference between what Max did then & what Lando did, so what Tommy is saying by ignoring this is that what is good for Max, isn’t for anybody else. My issue is consistency, those 2 incidents prove the lack of it.
Max did the same thing in Austria that Lando did today and got nothing he did the same thing to Sainz today as well and the FIA has yet to look at him overtaking off the track twice this season and gaining an advantage. It's not a good look for the FIA when theres a theme of 1 driver not even being investigated in races where other drivers are getting time penalties for the same moves/decisions
Max is just clearly the better driver. I began the weekend still thinking that Lando had a shot at the championship, this race has completely eliminated that possibility for me. Lando just does not have what it takes to win a championship. I don't really think Charles does either, tbh. They both lack consistency, unfortunately
You say (or the comment said) that Ferrari haven't had the pace but you look at the last 7 races and they have had 2 wins, a 2nd, 2x 3rds, a 4th and a 5th for Leclerc and 2 wins, 2x 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th for Sainz, with not the best car on the grid. While McLaren, with supposedly the best and fastest car on the grid have had: Norris: 2 wins, a 2nd, a 3rd, 2x 4th and a 5th. Piastri: 2 wins, 2x 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th. Norris has simply not done good enough in the most dominant car on the grid.
Tommy doesn't for a second try to understand why so many people see this as a double standard. If Lando received a penalty Max should have received one as well.
The idea of Lewis seeing Charles take the lead lap 1 on the timing tower and just saying "screw it, I am not driving this anymore 5 more races and I will be in that car!", then proceeds to put it in the gravel. oh no I am stuck, guess I have to not race. It would be funny if he kept doing it over the next 5 races.
@@Stormanborman he won 3 races this season, your comment was saying if Charles has won a race other than Monaco that wasn’t overshadowed by McLaren drama, meaning your comment was not including Monaco, and assuming we are already talking about this one, the logical conclusion would be that I was talking about the other race he won, which was Monza…
2:51 So you cant pass on the inside because you'll run someone wide and get penalized but you cant take on the outside cause you'll get run wide and get a penalty. Hmmm.
I am not sure that Norris would be better if he tries to be aggressive like Verstappen is. Just look at Hamilton and Perez when they try to be aggressive, they end up going slower or crashing and DNFing. I do think there is a art to it, and knowing when and how to do it. Verstappen can dive down the inside and do a block move and come out in the lead and no damage 99% of the time. How often have we seen Perez try it and end up with a damaged car or crashing? Also there is a bit to say about reputation. People like Senna, Schumacher and Verstappen others drivers know or knew that they would force their way through so they always gave them extra room because they weren't scared of crashing their own cars (Senna did it several times). Even Hamilton says he drives against Verstappen differently because of his aggressiveness.
Of course it wasnt fair, but it wasnt against the rules, when a driver has no intention of making the corner and places his car to run the other driver off the track even leaving the track themselves then there is something smelly in paradise because it forces the other driver into a rule breaking situation
I think it is wrong to say ‘well max will be max. So you should expect that’ because he shouldn’t be able to do/push things to the limit where other can’t just because of his reputation and skill. Surely it should be an even level for all drivers? Seems wrong that he can get away with small things/ push the line so many times (like in Austria where he didn’t get a penalty for driving off track and staying ahead) whilst others are hit with penalties just because that level of driving is not expected from them
No one needs to accept it. Lando is welcome to try the same thing. He did that in Austria and Max got the penalty. But Lando can't take the risk because he risks taking himself out. Maybe things can change if Leclerc gets ahead of Lando And for all the talk about Max leaving the track, show me a screenshot with max off the track. Since the stewards are monitoring that corner, I believe they have access to more footage, the people stationed on that corner etc. and since there is no mention of that by the stewards I will assume Max kept himself ontrack
@@riteshrohan4871 Max didn’t get a penalty at Austria for keeping an advantage off track, he got it for causing contact in another incident a few laps later. So that’s why I’m saying it should be constant either it is or isn’t. And will gladly send you a screenshot as we can all see from the footage he when past the blue line what was the track limits this weekend. Let me know where to send it
heres a rule: the car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner, whilst remaining within the limits of the track if only the stewards knew the rules?
@@claudiaamengualmateo6989 It's also a rule you can't overtake offtrack. The rule doesn't say you can't overtake offtrack unless the car overtaken is crossing tracklimits. Lots of cars had tracklimits violation, Lando did as well. You could get away with a warning 3 times. Max put his allotment to good use.
The other biggest downside of cota (was there for all three days) was the lack of infrastructure around the track. Trying to leave on Sunday it took us longer to get out of traffic than how long the actual race lasted
Yeah, clear L take from Tommy here. The only reason Lando even went off when he passed is because Max pushed him so far off the track, that even Max was completely off the track. It was Brazil 2021 all over again
34:13 The lack of really being able to know what's going on is a big part of the reason I stopped going to F1 at COTA. Ironically as I've become a bigger and bigger F1 fan, I've become less likely to actually go to the race as I really want to be able to pay attention to everything that's happening. Sorry I missed the live show, I got sick :( I bet Matt was going bonkers with how Charles performed today!
The Norris overtake was a clear "leaving the track and gaining an advantage" penalty that had been given multiple times already during the race to other drivers.
My two cents: I don't think Lando was making that corner. Obviously I am not an F1 driver or a racing driver at all, so my opinion is void, but Lando's steering angle never changed. He never opened his steering to avoid Max. So I don't think Max forced him off.
No ways max was making the corner either hence why this is bullshit and I'm a neutral fan..it was more max pushing him off rather than lando going past off track
@@bradleyrobinson2358 Playing devil's advocate, I guess it's about semantics, assuming I am correct, which I most likely am not. Max isn't making the corner. He didn't keep his position by going off, and because Lando wasn't making the corner regardless, Max didn't force him off, so technically, it's just a track limits infringement. In the case of Lando, he accelerated mid corner, therefor didn't make it, and gained a position off the track. The FIA have the telemetry, so I'll assume they came to this conclusion, but again, devil's advocate, and I completely understand the other side of the argument.
@@cattywampuswiddershins fair play, you are quite right.we aren't the stewards and don't have access to the data they have and again as a neutral or fan of the sport this needs to be governed consistently and accurately towards all teams and drivers..it actually takes the great fight they had and tarnishes it with unnecessary drama that causes the stewards to be at the point of attention instead of the drivers,a shame really
So if a I am being overtaken, and know that I have lost the position. I can divebomb my opponent and force him to overtake me of track. Resulting in me being given the position back. Effective !
The rules need to be changed. The race has proven that it doesn't actually matter how you defend or overtake, as far as you're first into the corner. It means inside divebombs are subject to no penalties if the driver you're fighting doesn't turn into you and crash. Stupid decision as Verstappens divebomb at turn 1 lap 1 should've had the exact same penalty.
There is a crowding and erratic driving penalty that can be applied according to the sporting regs. They are just scared of using it because Derek Warwick is mates with Jos Verstappen.
The issue with trackside commentary was present for us in GA at Budapest too. Despite all of the drama happening on track with the McLarens, we had absolutely no idea what was going on. There were no screens nearby, and no tannoys. All you had were cars going past lap by lap and intermittent mobile data to try and keep up using the app coverage. It wasn't until we rewatched the race on Sky Sports later that we realised how interesting it was.
Lando's mistake was not passing Max off the track 3 laps earlier then build a 5 second gap. Max shows time after time he'll force a crash rather than being overtaken.
If they want to give lando a 5 second penalty they should give two a 5 second penalties to verstappen for forcing lando off in their battle and another 5 second for the turn 1 incident
So many frustrated british fans. Max just uses the rules to their full extend. Be mad at the FIA and their (admittedly ridiculous) rules. He has that absolute winner mentality that some other drivers lack. Also, Lando was so much faster than Max, gained between .5 and 1 second a lap. He should have passed Max faster. Norris screwed up both the start and the end of the race. I loved seeing Ferrari get that 1-2, I am kinda hoping they can get the constructors. The gap is not that big, and they are so good now. How good would it be if they won the driver championship next year. I do hope it will be Leclerc if that happens, he deserves it for putting up with all the Ferrari crap for so many years.
Tommy’s argument is immediately invalidated by his own statement, Max also went wide and was behind going into the corner so he was attempting the overtake back from Lando’s on the strait. He went too fast into the apex so was maybe marginally ahead but was unable to control his car and went wide. Which as Tommy says “has never been allowed”. FIA is too inconsistent🥲
@@carltese1267 max was literally penalized for the same thing Lando did years ago in 2016. The rules have not changed despite how everyone wants to cry and whine that max gets preferential treatment- they can’t accept that max knows the rules to a T and knows just how far he can push them. This is what makes him such a great champion.
All you can do is cry without stating facts. 1st incident was T1, its obviously no penalty. The incident in the last part was completely Landos fault. Max was in front, he can dictate the line, Lando was awarded penalty not only because he went off the track, but he accelerated too and then overtook outside the track. @@carltese1267
That's a fair point Tommy, I attended this year's IMSA race at Laguna Seca and it was a really cool experience, but I had no clue what was happening during the race because there is no broadcasted commentary around the track, or screens, etc.
