I would suggest that you look at my other videos because I am a Ford Master Tech I have already covered this and Ford has discontinued that reprogram because it's causing transmission problems
And it does not necessarily take care of the problem they hope that it does but they're not guaranteeing that it does but through the process of putting this program in people's Vehicles they are getting torque converter problem and transmission shudder problems now so Ford has said wait a second there's a problem stop doing the 21b 10 reprogram
So, Ijust bought a (new to me), 2011 F150 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost a day after I saw this video. The day before I saw it was when I checked out the truck at the used car dealers lot. The Phaser rattle scared the crap out of me not knowing what it was so, I walked away. That night I found this video after googling 'loud rattle on 3.5 ecoboost', here on you tube. Carfax showed that the truck had a timing job and water pump just 19K miles earlier so, I was a little perplexed. I went back the next day and tried the 'crank n prime' trick. DANG, It worked! After explaining to the dealership that I needed to pull the body and the front of the engine off to do a full timing job, I drove it off the lot for only $7,800 ! Got a gorgeous 'Pale Adobe' supercrew dream truck for under 8K cash! Thanks brother, you made my dream come true!
I was advised to do this on cold starts when I purchased my 2014 3.5 F150 new. Currently at 150,000+ miles, never had any rattling on startup. Ford could have made the ecoboost a 350,000 mile motor by adding a prelube pump.
Wow, I have been having this issue for about 3-4 months now. I went out to the driveway where my truck had been sitting overnight on a downhill slope and tried your solution. Works like a charm. Thank you very much.
I’m a heavy duty mechanic, most everything we work on has a Pre-Lube system . The external pump is mounted to a starter like motor and can run for well over a minute. Makes good sense here to pre-lube / prime the oil system. Great topic and awareness . Thanks
You were on the money again with this one. I have a '15 SHO that's already had the phasers, chains, chain guide and intake cams replacement in early 2020 for that rattle, not sure why they replaced the intake camshafts but I wasn't arguing because it was warranty work. Even with all the work done on my motor, that rattle is still there for about 2-3 seconds on a cold start, gonna mention based on one of your recent videos that I have a K&N oil filter. My car has been sitting for five days (I work from home) so I gave this a try, took my foot off the gas after about a three count of the engine cranking and voila! No cold start rattle. Great video once again and thank you.
I had a 2009 Jaguar XFS with this same problem on the 4.2L engine. Supposedly the cam gears had seals in them to keep the oil in, and when they failed, it would leak down the oil pressure, and cause that rattle on startup until pressure built up again. I'm not sure if it's related, but Ford owned Jaguar back in the late 00s, so maybe they used their variable timing tech in their own engines, and then ended up with the same problem.
I've always wondered why they didn't install a secondary electric primer pump for the oil. When you unlock or open the door, and the fuel pump kicks on, turn on the electric oil primer as well. After a few seconds, or upon starting, the electric pump would shut down and the mechanical pump would take over. The pumps would be isolated from one another by check valves, and use the same regulator for both. Eliminates startup wear and primes phasers.
Really appreciate the time you've taken to make this video. I'm going to try this first thing in the morning. Just had my oil changed and the initial start up was horrible
Thank you very much for the video. Not only Fords have this problem, other brands also. There are Hondas that have the same problem, in some cases it is solved by putting the oil of the specifications. Many think that as the car ages, the oil that has to get into it has to be thiker, and that is where the problems begin. It's so important to let the oíl get to the motor very fast, that's why they make it so thin.
A remember my uncle had a turbo Mustang from the eighties and he added a pre-luber/post shut down oil circulation pump. When you turned the key to run, the pump would prime the system to 40psi (took about 2-3 seconds til the green light came on) and after shut down it would run for 2 minutes to cool the turbo. I bet that'd do the trick also.
I feel like even for cars that don't have VCT/phasers, a pre-prime of the oil pump can't be bad since most of the wear in engines occurs right on startup
I have a 2019 F-150 3.5 ecoboost. Is started rattling at startup at 9000 miles. The repairs were completed at 12,300. I mean that’s when I took it in. My point is Ford has had this cam phaser problem going on for years. Every time the engineers came out with a new c/p it didn’t last. The service writer told me mine were replaced with the 3rd generation cam phasers. I can’t imagine the amount of money Ford spent trying to fix this, and you come up with a simple way to deal with the issue. Way to go man!
I had to have my timing chain on my 2014 F150 replaced (big money). Now I have this exact problem and Ford said they have no idea how to fix it. You're so smart and I 100% agree with you. Nice work and excellent idea!
Great content! My wife's 2016 Expedition with 88k miles has the same issue. Changing the oil to 5w40 Delo 400 XSP and changing it every 5k has removed 95% of the rattle. Every so often on very cold days does it happen, but it's extremely infrequent now. I only switched after a lot of research into their additive package and also figured if a diesel with new catalytic systems can go 10k plus, why not my turbo gas motor. My expy has never run better. Delo 400 XSP SAE 5W-40 with ISOSYN Advanced Technology is excellent for use in engines developed to meet 2010 emissions standards and in engines equipped with features like four-valve heads, supercharging, turbocharging, direct injection, shorter piston crowns, higher power density, intercooling, full electronic management of fuel and emissions systems, exhaust gas recirculation, and exhaust particulate filters.
@@mattwagner8965 well, I live in California where the temp hardly ever gets below 50*F so the added viscosity is not an issue. Been running this for 20k miles with nothing but an improvement and no start rattling. Also test my oil samples from black stone and show improved wear So YMMV 🤷🏽♂️
@@RobertMichaelPhotography nothing to do with weather it calls for thinner oil so it goes to the cams faster and lubes up bearing faster I mean if you ain't had a problem and you wanna do that go for it bro but I wouldn't
@@mattwagner8965 5w-40 is same viscosity on start as 5w-20. should oil just fine on start up. not sure about today but diesel oils used to have high zinc content which was banned in gas cars with cats since it ruins catalytic converters
great video. Consider doing a timing set on your Town Car. Upgrade to the metal tensioners. The gaskets on the rear of the plastic tensioners can blow out and the hydraulic tensioners get weak with heat cycles regardless. Up grade to the metal tensioners as they don't have a gasket and they have an oil squirter that cool and lubes the chains and the metal tensioners have a little ratcheting arm on them that holds the tensioner arms out tight against the chains at all times. It is the loose chains on start up that slap around and bust the chain guides. A slow crank PCM reprogram on the Town Car would help as well, say 2.5 seconds of crank before fuel turned on. Lots of great info. Great video.
I'd absolutely love if cars had remote start with a separate electric oil pump that doesn't filter and pre primes the engine before finally firing the engine up after a couple or few seconds. I'd always turn my engine on that way. Not cumbersome at all just to click click when walking towards it.
I remember seeing an invention originally for turbos that was basically a spring or gas pressure accumulator that held a quart or so of oil that would feed the turbo's bearings cool oil after shutting the engine off. With a few solenoid valves this could pressurize the oiling system before and after start-up and shut down. Sort of like a bladder tank on a well system.
Thank you so much for sharing this information, my 2012 150 3.5 ecoboost has been rattling for about 6 months now, an it has not been that bad at this time, but as you have shown us, im going to try this first thing in the morning 🌄, Thank you again for your video on this problem, have a great an blessed day 🙏.
Thanks , I have that issue and your solution works, the dealer told me it was the oil filter backflow preventer, but since they change the oil and filter, it still rattled if the truck sat for a while. Great tip.
Interesting solution, and pretty simple for Ford to implement. I was thinking another option would be an oil reservoir, that has a 1 way valve to fill/pressurize with oil while the engine is running. Then another valve that opens prior to engine start to pre-prime the oil system.
Whoa this is gold! My 94 Land Cruiser had this problem with its big tall 6cyl and as it’s my project vehicle I put a preluber on it which uses an electric agricultural pump. But my Honda S2000 makes a painful zipping sound when I start it after sitting for a month. I’m going to try this!
Delaying fuel injection until oil pressure is detected is a common practice for ensuring that the engine is properly lubricated before starting to run. Here are the steps to accomplish this on your Ecoboost 3.5 engine. 1. Locate the Oil Pressure Sensor: Start by locating the oil pressure sensor. It is typically located near the oil filter. The oil pressure sensor sends a signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM) indicating the oil pressure level. 2. Review the Wiring: Review the wiring diagram for your vehicle to understand how the oil pressure sensor is wired. You will need to splice the fuel injection circuit into the oil pressure sensor circuit. The goal is to only enable the fuel injection circuit once the oil pressure sensor indicates that oil pressure has been established. 3. Install a Pressure Switch: Install a pressure switch in the oil pressure line after the oil pressure sensor and before the fuel injection system. The pressure switch should be normally closed (NC) and open when oil pressure is detected. 4. Connect the Wiring: Run a wire from the pressure switch to the fuel injection system. This wire should be connected to the fuel injection circuit so that when the pressure switch is open, the fuel injection circuit is enabled. 5. Test the System: Before starting the engine, test the system by disconnecting the oil pressure sensor wire. The fuel injection circuit should not be enabled because the oil pressure sensor is not detecting oil pressure. Reconnect the oil pressure sensor wire and verify that the system enables fuel injection once oil pressure is detected. It is crucial to ensure that the system is properly installed to prevent damage to the engine. It is also recommended to consult with a professional mechanic or automotive engineer if you are unfamiliar with modifying vehicle systems.
Here's some additional information on entering 'flood mode' with a key-start ignition system: there is no need to hold the key in the 'crank' position once the engine begins to turn over. Just fully depress the brake (for safety) and the accelerator pedals, turn the key to get the engine spinning, and take your hand off the key. The engine will continue to spin until your release the accelerator pedal, at which time the engine will start. Not everyone can walk (twist the key), chew gum (depress the accelerator pedal), and scratch their ass (depress the brake pedal) at the same time. Carry on.
I've literally been explaining this for years and I've been one of the only sources if not the only source for a long time I don't need anything else added to my information I've been perfectly 100% explaining it and not a single person has had an issue of not following it
@@FordBossMe Kid, I've been using 'flood mode' after oil changes since the day I bought my '84 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, new. I was merely pointing out that it is not necessary to hold the key in the' start' position once the engine begins to spin. If you knew that, you wouldn't have done it in your video. Relax.
Gonna show this one to my mechanic. Currently driving a 2012 3.5 that's going to need a second timing job. You might have just saved me $3,800 bucks. Thanks!
@ford boss me Unplugging the variable oil pump defaults the pressure to 72 psi full time. Holding down the gas pedal does work. I've done this for a while now. The ECM variable oil pump cranking time can be increased. I see that table in the tune.
"Clear flood", I have been doing this to get cars into my bay. Agreed that 150 cranking rpm is way better than 7-800 idle rpm, while building oil pressure.
Thanks for the video .. I have a Holden (chevy)commodore in Australia rattling on start up. Timing chain just renewed after several $k .. still rattling... your method was perfect.. rattling gone! Your a genius
I agree with everything said here although my rattle sometimes started up to 15 - 25 seconds after the engine was started, at times just after it came off the high idle and when the rattle started it hammered like a 71 series Detroit diesel up to 20 seconds then sometimes "click" and go silent. Not sure if the prime would help although I'll give it a try. We've used primers on other performance vehicles in the past and they make perfect sense of raising the oil pressure prior to starting. My phasers were replaced and the rattle may be back at about 18,389 KM's later. For the record this rattle had nothing to do with the injectors or sloppy clips on the wastegate levers which would be a blessing in comparison.
@@FordBossMe Hopefully will find out soon. The oil was always changed with full synthetic every 5000KM's so contamination shouldn't be an issue. Possibly sticking pins that lock the phasers into position when cold gone. Guessing at this point.
@@FordBossMe thanks I’ve been going out at night to start my truck to keep it from doing this, let it sit about 12 hours when out this morning Crank the engine for about three seconds then took my foot off the gas and no Randle I have a 2014 F150 eco-boost thanks very much progress I was afraid I was I was damaging something by letting it sit too long I appreciate it keep up the good work
I changed the oil other day. And used this method it works. Because you can not really Prime the oil filter. This method works all the way round. Thanks keep up the great work.
My dads 2018 f150 3.5 does this as well. Does it cause damage if he doesn’t have it looked at or does this startup method? I’ve told him I’ve heard a noise but he doesn’t hear it
@@kyleyoung7341 Take it to the dealer and have them replace it. They issued a recall for it and they even pro rate the replacement of them if you're out of warranty. It will gradually get worse and eventually start having a constant knocking after the engine is fully warmed up. It will also start having issues where you'll press the throttle down and the truck will just fall flat on its face for a second or two. Get it fixed before it gets any more miles on it! I had my 19 F-150 done in March. It only had 32k Miles on it and was getting progressively worse.
Literally just solved my problem that was debating on going back to a Tacoma about lol. My truck sounded nasty after sitting for a few days, did this truck and it’s brand new again 😎
I get the feeling master techs such as yourself could design phasers that would last as long as the motor itself. The other observation I have is phasers come into play at high RPM. Most people never exceed 4,000 rpm especially with automatics having many close ratio gears. Ford should delete phasers. HP rating would suffer but motor would be bullet proof like the 2V 4.6.
Just wondered, I’m taking my 2018 Ford F-150 in next week to have the cam phasers replaced. Judging by the 3 page parts list it’s quite an extensive job. My question is after the truck is fixed would it be a good idea to used the gas pedal to the floor method on start ups after the fix to prevent it from happening again?
@@jaygallegos7728 did you ever find a answer to this question? I have a 2018 eco that rattled on cold start with 40k under power train I’m setting a appointment
I experimented with this for a whole month and posted a video of my findings on my '18 with 27K miles. In this video your total cranking time was about 11 seconds. Yesterday I managed to hear no rattle at all after cranking for a total of about 8 seconds, but I did it in 3 crank sessions for about 3 seconds each. To be sure I didn't hear anything I filmed from the outside, not inside. Will this excessive cranking cause premature starter wear? And what happens if owners decide not to fix this? Will the rattle eventually lead to other things that will destroy the engine?
I wouldn't worry about starter longevity. Starters are made much better than the 80-90's. and Todays cars get running faster with less cranking than back then.
worthy considerations. The starter is going to be working at 4-6X more than usual, as most start ups are nearly instantaneous in normal circumstances. And I had always been under the impression that cold start up rattle was a function of bled off timing chain tensioners, not the phaser assembly. This is what I have learned about the 5.4 triton. If the tensioners are leaking that has been claimed to lead to oil starvation in the heads along with the cold start up rattle. So oil priming may well lead to elimination of the rattle, but is there unheard, unseen damage going on due to oil starvation? Seems that based on what I have learned form other RU-vid posts this rattle is an indication of component failure, any solution like this priming is just putting off the inevitable and perhaps allowing some serious engine damage.
Thank you for this solution. My 2010 F150 just started the tapping upon start up. I imagine it doesn’t help that it sits all week while I’m at work but this worked fantastically.
Thank you, my 2017 Eco Boost F 150 has been to the dealer many times due to this problem, the Cam Assy rebuilt twice but the problem still exists. . I t sure seemed to me that it was a lubrication problem your explanation helps
Interesting Rich. Makes perfect sense. I would love to see close up pictures of those eco boost cast iron tensioners. I bought some billet aluminum ratcheting chain tensioners from mmr to try out on one of my modulars.
Thank you man ! I knew it !! I'm a mechanic . and I knew this would happend one day on my 2011 it only has 130 nice kilometers . I been giving it bit of key ro build preassure too . but in getting worse . and replacing the chain is crazy work and it shouldnt happen so soon at 120 k started . no codes . is all good that is the problem no pressure and only one tensioner on the old models . yes ford should put a new mapping on this 3.5 eco . at least fix one problem of the many that has . in very surprised ford screw up so bad . for the sake of a bit of power and fuel economy . no enough time testing . yes ford help your customers .
Thank you - thank you!!! my 2018 f150 EB finally started to get that noise regularly now. This past weekend in Vegas was a loud one that startled me. I thought my truck was broken and I needed to stay a few more days 😉 ! I was skeptic to bring the truck in for 21B10, as I didn't think it will solve 100%. Will give this procedure a try and report back.
Ive been doing this on my 13 eco with 225k for the last year now, doing the long crank for the first cold start of the day with good results. IMO though, if Ford programmed the ecu to long crank after 8 hours for example, people would complain that the vehicle isn't starting, or its "going to wear out the starter" they would need some kind of secondary electric oil pump to prime the same way the fuel pump primes as soon as the key is turned on then delay start for n seconds after key on.
Takes about 10 seconds to build pressure in my 2013 F150. I imagine the life of the starter will be reduced quite a bit with the long cranks on first start up of the day or after 4-6 hours of sitting. Either way, no rattle after pressure builds. Thank you!
This is awesome it works perfectly on mine! You have to hold the gas and brake while pressing the start button for about 3-5 seconds to allow the oil to make its rounds and then release your foot off the gas and you get a good clean, smooth, no phaser rattle start :)
I just caught on this problem with my 2018 F150 90k on to odo. We don’t always get a lot of cold weather here in TX but I’m definitely going to give it a try
Awesome video. I have figured the same thing out. I have never replaced a cam phaser and I have owned a few 3 valves. The 3.5 I own now is at 235,000 miles and still running fine. I do use additive’s on mine and I use the combination in everything. 1oz per quart of oil of Lucas stabilizer and the same ration of hotshots stiction eliminator.
My truck is a 2020 3.5L and I bought it with 50k miles. On start up at the dealership I started the truck and heard that weird rattle got out of the truck went to listen to the engine and no longer heard it. I turned the truck off started it again, no rattle. Thought I was hearing things. Bought the truck next morning started it up and heard it. Lol. Truck now has 97k miles but the rattle has gotten far worse and louder over time. It’s a great truck but knowing the phasers are junk is a hard pill to swallow. I will do this every time I start it now. They should recall but the amount of cars coming in would back them up for numerous months
Man I had one due the same thing and took it Ford several times it did this since day 3 of ownership brand new truck drove it off the lot with 55 miles they changed the flywheel and all Kinds of stuff eventually traded the truck for a GMC
I have a 2013 F150 3.5 engine since 6 years Never had any big problems with the engine or other things besides normal maintenance But since a year ago I did the oil change at 5,000 miles I always change it before that at 3,000 miles and never had any issues before But since the 5,000 miles oil change it actually started doing a Rattle noise even so I been changing the oil with full good synthetic oil from time to time the problem Started to getting worse to the point that the Rattling and ticking noise was so loud Hired a mechanic to check it and he told us that something was broken inside on top of the engine Which he said that it would be a Camphaser He took it to the shop and they opened which he was right Also the engine was very dirty probably because the first owner didn’t take good care of it I bought it with 55,000 miles on it. The mechanic did the timing change job and clean the oil pickup filter in the bottom because the oil pump was not working at 100% but probably at 50% since it was dirty He did the job alright Charge us $4,500 The truck work really good since 2 months Until now that a Rattle started again in the mornings when the truck is settled down and not warm The Rattle stays for at least 3 minutes then it goes alway After that won’t do that Rattle all day on every startups But it does next day every mornings. Any advice on what to do will be appreciated Thanks Like your videos.
My understanding is that direct injection engines tend to have fuel dilution problems, oil change intervals are stretched and the chains wear, past the point of the tensioners ability to deal with the wear.
Just purchased a 2013 ford f150 xlt and noticed this a couple days after I purchased it. I’m trying this in the morning on a cold start. Hope it works! But you have a subscriber out of me!
i think that all the manufacturers should think that way i have a town and country that has a lifter rattle for the first few seconds after startup and i have done that procedure before and never gave it a thought i will now thanks boss
Ive always done this ever since ive been wrenching , over 32 yrs now, always disable starting somehow whether its pulling coil wire or smacking the inertial shutoff switch in the older ford vehicles, then cranking for several seconds, it has never caused me any grief yet, quite the contrary...a few extra seconds every few months pays dividends over the life of the vehicle by keeping it on the road instead of in the shop or worse....
My 2015 f150 3.5 EcoBoost developed a rattle. instead of bringing it in I did some troubleshooting. Thankfully In my case it was failed clamps on the muffler heat shield. Easy fix!
I have a 2019 F150 3.5 eco-boost and this has been a problem most of the time I've had this truck. Ford has already replaced the cams once and of course it's been back at it for a while now. But, I can't afford to fix it on my dollar right now. Ford actually just gave me an estimate of about $4500 to fix it again. I'm going to try this the next time I let it sit for a while. Great info
So this should work stop the noise on Startup but it doesn't mean that it has fixed any problems, Ford went through three generations of cam phasers before they got a generation that would work long term and a lot of people got the second generation instead of the Third and now the third generation is out
This is why huge diesels like locomotives have a prelube system. Ford really should update the pcm to crank longer for early oil pressure. It would solve noise and wear issues.
Thanks for the video, I have a 2019 Lariat Coyote 5.0 that “clatters” or rattles between 5th and 6th gear IF I don’t let it warm up for several minutes prior to driving. It also has that oil consumption issue ... very annoying.
Honda and Toyota engines have this problem too. Hondas do not have a flood mode for the vast majority. You can mitigate the rattle by installing a fuel pump kill switch to crank the engine and prime the oil pressure. That’s separate from exploring spring replacement or entire actuator replacement.
Thank you. I have a 2013 F150 (164k) that for over 1 year has been doing the the start rattle. This is the 1st video I found about it. Thank you!!! I tried this and it quieted it down greatly!!! 😁Hubby has 2017 F150 (53k) and his started doing it. 1st time extended warranty paid for its self and Ford fixed the problem ($5k). Now if I can find my coolant leak...
Typically these like to leak at the actual coolant reservoir itself and the plastic Connections in the front that the cooling system have in the rubber lines
The older F-150 like yours the 2013 yours is probably never going to completely go away because yours is more of a timing chain issue on the older ones the chains stretched more than the VCT phaser acted up but when you go to get yours done you're going to want to have new phasers and chain and guides/water pump everything put on
Dude, I just tried this, on my 2019 3.5. That has been rattling for about a year now. And I just did this method this morning, And it doesn’t rattle upon giving it a few more seconds to crank.
Awesome stuff! Gets me thinking they will be warranting a gigillion starters in short order tho, I have a great idea- engineer an electric assist oil pump that is activated at key on while foot is on brake pedal. Even if you try to crank it in key start position, the engine won't crank fire until the oil pressure is up to an adiquite spec.
