Did you also mess up learning Jazz songs in the beginning, and what is a good tip? 50 Jazz Standards you want to know: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UC5n_UuYHLo.html 3 reasons your comping sucks: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XeAwnA66MCQ.html
Great story, resonates with me too. I also found it difficult to learn standards as I was seeing them as chord progressions, not songs. So what I do now is find a vocal version that I like (often Ella Fitzgerald in my case. Sinatra would work too but I'm not mad about him in general). Repeatedly listening to a vocal version means you are actually internalising the song, it's melody, meaning and emotion. And chord melody and improvisation can fan out from there.
@@frankvaleron I listen to Ella And Frank too but I am indebted to Nat King Cole, June Christy, Julie London, and I get the melody down in my head crystal clear. Sometimes Billy Holiday's WONDERFUL embellishments really do the trick... Etta Jones, Anita O'day and Dinah Shore of course all helped me with melodies.
@@frankvaleron WOW thanks for that. I cant believe that i havent heard of her. Just heard her "Satin Doll".. she is awesome.. and the bonus was that the guitarist is "Ray Crawford" who has a very unique style (great comper) and played for Ahmad Jamal. Thank you.
When it comes to standards, learning the melody and to play it as it was played in historical context are the crucial steps in my opinion. I feel good solos highlight the changes and motifs present in the song.
I have already a reason: Learning exercices through the standard (coltrane patterns, different shapes arpeggio), but not improvising with the concept of it... it happened to me with Autumn Leaves last month, now that I know the problem, I have set for myself new goals for the new jazz standard I'm going to learn (fly me to the moon) and I'm going to learn Autumn Leaves AGAIN. I already tried it with only playing the triads on Fly Me To The Moon and I saw improvement INSTANTLY. For you Jens watchers, go watch: This solo exercice changed everything.
I think a lot the old jazz guys would come up with cool ides that would would fit them in with standards. ( Dexter Gordon would plug in quotes and his licks. ) In the 1970's when I was in music school, the push was outlining the chords or playing patterns. To be honest, I wish I had never gone to music school. I love Autumn Leaves. Easy to find great counter melodies.
I find a lot of my own past experiences in what you’re telling here. Made all these mistakes myself, but - alas - haven't really yet summoned the time and energy to proceed successfully on the right path... Guess I do need honest guys like you to remember me and rekindle my ambition. Thank you so much!
Thank you, this is probably the best advice everyone can have about jazz improvisation especially for those who are just starting and just getting in to playing jazz, a lot of musicians nowadays don't know this, everyone just seem to improvise and jump in the solos not singing the melody in their head
Nice Episode - this will help anyone who needs a solid formula for efficient and productive learning of standards, jazz song form in general. I was fortunate to have an early introduction to classical, blues, jazz and other genres through my family's musical tastes and a savvy first classical guitar teacher, he was also an art teacher later at my high school. This teacher gave me William Leavitt's MMFG volumes 1-3 as a present for a high classical exam pass. Little did I know what I had been gifted. Soon I got a new-real-book and started playing the melodies and chords in every position and key I could. I played with a pick, fingers, or hybrid and started learning to create solo arrangements. The methods of Don Mock, Joe Pass and many others were also invaluable in helping me learn more about Jazz guitar specifically. Learning to read from the commencement of my musical journey was a great help. Amassing a library of records and books became a passion. This was decades before what we now have with gems like yourself on RU-vid and so many electronic resources for learning and sharing too. I love your work. Even if it's nothing new entirely, there is always well thought out perspective within. 🙏🏼😃
Jens.... this lesson and the "confessions of a wannabe" video that precedes it are, in my view, some of your best work. Close to cringe honesty, instantly recognisable problems - then in the 2nd video "3 steps to sort it out". I have watched years of your material - as you have likely seen. Its all very good of course.... but your little recipe here - the two part story is a true gem. You might consider editing some of the bits etc so that you have one full single "Here's the path" lesson. This material is very valuable, very authentic and presents all you have to offer here (vast amounts) in its very best light. I can only say "thank you".
A great post. It summarizes things I did not understand and the wrong paths I also took. There was no music in our house and had no idea of a 'jazz standard'. Then I wondered why my blazing one minor rock pentatonic box did not sound jazzy or work over the whole tune. Eventually I learned I first needed to listen to a good version. Then, learn how to memorize and play both the chords and the melody by yourself before considering real soloing. I remember my first jazz lesson and all I wanted to do was solo. The teacher suggested how about 'All The Things You Are'... I said great, what's that?
The part about learning to improvise and landing at jazz is very recognizable. It’s the idea that if you can figure out soloing over jazz you unlocked the secret of improvising over everything … which is something different from learning the jazz language.
I was lucky in two ways as a guitarist, first I started as a horn player. Why is that important? Well the very nature of playing a wind instrument requires that you come to understand phrasing...... because you have to breath. And being a horn player introduced me to Jazz and the idea of improvisation.... because where else besides Jazz are you going to hear horn players heavily showcased. In addition I learned to read..... not an absolute necessity, but definitely helpful. In fact, as a kid as was in so much of a Jazz fog that when I first started playing guitar and listening to other forms of music I was astounded, and disappointed, that most of the great guitar solos that I loved were not improvised. The other lucky thing was that, as a guitarist, my first gigs were pickup gigs with Country bands. Now before everyone goes off on Country music, realize this..... playing pickup gigs with a Country band is not that much different from playing pickup gigs with, say, a Blues band. You're expected to have some knowledge of the basic chord patterns of the music, have a decent ear to pick up the changes, as well as have some basic improvisational skills. Granted it's not like playing Giant Steps, but it allows newer players to step into the ocean of improvisation without drowning. And as much as Country tends to be looked down upon, I knew far more Country players who could navigate the Jazz world, than Rock players.
I've heard the same reasons to really learn the head well on tunes from several of my instructors and peers-and while I do learn my heads thoroughly and try to utilize them in "hearing" the harmony, the problem lies in how I don't have an inner monologue. I don't hear notes or even my own voice/thoughts in my head. While I try to vocalize out loud, it's super hard to sing a melody line AND play a solo alongside it.
jens, this video made my day dude. brought back so many fun and fond memories as well as being a great reminder of some important things that I tend to forget about during the course of life. your production skills have really gone off the charts man. Love The incredible hulk insert. very descriptive. and the bit about crashing and burning wow how many times a day do I do that after 60 years, but you still just get up brush yourself off and get back at it and have fun for you frustrated and crash and burn again. for some of us it's what makes the world go round as we hope to improve. keep the videos coming. really enjoy your playing, your approach and your humor.
Hi Jens. I had a total flashback when you talked about how difficult i was earlier with no internet and the local library as the best source to get some jazz records and trying to grasp a bit here and there and the resulting confusion. You have just made it a lot easier for beginners. Thanks for all.
When I was younger, I started by learning standards from the real book, but I realize now, I would have been better off learning the meolody and chord changes by ear. Even if it takes longer, it makes you a better player in the long run. You can always check the chart afterwards. Often the real book is wrong or is only one version. I also think you retain the knowledge gained better. If you can remember the sound, you can find it on the guitar eventually. I'm not against reading. But neglecting the ear is a stumbling block.
the more you do it the better your ears will get and its ok to check the chart. sometimes the famous versions dont completely match the chart because they all had their own changes for tunes. like sonny rollins and miles davis usually had at least slightly different changes for the same song. if the chord you use works to your ear and is different then the chart then you have discovered alternate changes and that can be really great.
I first heard Count Basie Orchestra in high school and was hooked. When I joined the band, an older kid showed me drop 2 voicings. I still can't play like bird tho.
Maestro, It sure sounds like you were shoveling it against the incoming tide. I suppose I am going about it all wrong. Some tunes I recognize from over the eons and I’m like ‘oh’ I didn’t know that was that. I became interested in jazz, to help, or what I thought would help more with blues playing. Absolutely love that too. What started it all was a version of ‘Cold Duck Time’ here on YT. Just the backing track and the dive into what chord tones to play over it. Still struggling but still loving it. What was the video that you recommended in the your video. It just showed a box with chase lights going round. Great video though Jens.
Love your videos and find them a valuable tool for students! But bumbling around randomly is a natural part of learning and discovering your path. It’s a drought area for players and teachers like myself who never landed on a genre but sit in that ethereal fusion space.
@@JensLarsen Just a comment on the idea of helping people not make the mistakes you made - but perhaps sometimes those mistakes have benefits even if they derail you for a time.
@@anthonygarciaguitar But isn't this getting very close to saying to a beginner: "Don't learn the pentatonic scale, it will limit your options"? I am pretty sure that a few simple pieces of advice and suggestions would have saved me months in this process. It is not that I think there is no place for experimentation in the learning process, but it does have to make sense. We also don't tell our kids not to go to shcool and learn to read on their own.
@@JensLarsen no I respect your teaching. I wouldn't be watching and studying the videos otherwise. I have a similar approach. There seems to be an inherent desire - at least in many students I come across - to arse around and make the same mistakes we all made... theres a push a pull there somehow that I don't mind. Sometime interesting different ideas emerge there.
Really love your videos and ways of demonstrating everything! I've learned alot from them and will always keep practicing. What's your take on ollie halsall?, since you had mentioned other guitarists, I wasn't sure if you knew about him.
@@JensLarsen you're very welcome, he's definitely worth a listen in my opinion, on top of your videos I've been listening to patto/timebox alot along with herb ellis, barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery and Charlie Byrd, trying to absorb as much as I can musically and creatively :)
Hi Jens, First listen to several versions of the song you say. OK: On Green Dolphin Street. The first version that caught my eye was Barney Kessel's with Ray Brown and Shelly Manne. Brilliant version. I'll have to live and study until I am 150 to play half as good as Barney. So I'll go back to Blue Bossa and Autumn Leaves for now......
Great video! Dolphin St is also one of my favs because it swings in the middle. 😋Knowing the melody never really hit me until you said it and it makes perfect sense! Also is it ok to turn some tunes into ballad form until learned or is this a bad habit I have? I love Jazz now because of the beautiful chord colorings and chord improv...maybe once I get better at soloing I will enjoy that...and yeh,what a drag to pay big bucks for e.j. live ticket to hear him play what I couldve stayed home and heard him play on the cd! But I still enjoy soloing over rock chords,diffferent solos every time.People seem to really enjoy that flashy technique stuff and I like making people happy with music! Thanks many many times,Mr Larsen!!! Oh and I do have that Sandborn Cd and I saw Spyro Gyra 5 times growing up and walked out overwhelmed every time! I just dont like negative or political music of any kind!
Great video. Avoiding the pitfalls is soooo helpful. Thanks. However I still have issues with modal tunes. How do you avoid counting while soloing in 'so what'?
I'll never forget thinking that I was a good guitarist because I could sweep pick and improvise over simple blues. When I was in college I joined a small jazz combo, and a larger Jazz Ensemble and I got my ass handed to me. I had one really good solo, then everything went downhill from there. Eventually I just quit and focused on violin and sometimes classical guitar. Maybe someday I will go back and learn relearn my standards again...
Ive been "clueless and fumbling around in the dark" for nearly 50 years as a guitar player! 😂 But...I actually LIKE to stumble across new things when playing. Once I'd got "the basics", around 1973, ever since then Ive just gone on a journey of discovery with guitar, and Ive loved every minute of it. I know that if I'd studied theory and modes etc much harder, I could have learned much quicker, but I'm a great believer that life is about the JOURNEY...not the DESTINATION. Having said that... I always really enjoy your videos Jens. They give me "just enough" info...to go "exploring" the fretboard once more, and inspire me to play.
Lars great advice.. and its also nice to hear that you went through all this LOL but looks like your hard work played off. You are an amazing guitarist and your videos are a treat. BTW was it Herbie Hancock who stuck his head in and Jeered at you when you were talking about your bumpy ride through green Dolphin Street many years ago :-)
Before watching your video - here's my #1 mistake people make when learning a jazz standard: Assuming that the chart is accurate. (I'm looking at you Real Book.) In your case, it's even worse. Isn't that a E flat version of the Real Book? At least that gives you the added benefit of learning to transpose on the fly.
OGDS should be recommended more for people that start with jazz - it is a great source of ideas - soloing over maj7 with different scales e.g. Lydian and all the 251s you get - incl. short ones in last part.
John Abercrombie in his masterclass: "In standard changes, play lines through the circling chords. When modal play a circle through the line of chords".
Interesting insights as always, thank you :-) Given your rock to jazz quest, your yearning for improvisation skills, and some of your early reference points, I'm surprised that Jan Akkerman and Focus didn't enter the story at some point. I guess you were too young, and your move to the Netherlands came too late, to fall under Jan's spell. Shame though, because he was an ideal bridge between the worlds of rock and jazz, and rarely played the same solo twice.
Didn't REALLY come here to do shameless self promotion, but I do improvise all my solos. Sometimes while improvising I find bits that I really like and try to incorporate into the song's solo time and again, but basically all my solos are improvised blues solos. Always thought people preferred the ones that were all "pre-figured out" though, so it was nice to hear appreciation (to such an extent as stopping to listen to soloists like Vai because they DIDN'T improvise!) for it
Hey! Thanks for the wonderful tips! I think I am now where you were a while back 😄 I'm still in the majors and minors, eg: A->D->E Starting with anything other than that, and I'm lost. :( For example at 8:27 you start with EbMaj7 and in the 4th and 5th bar even though you are hitting just one note it is written as Dmi7(b5) and G7... completely lost 🤕 Can you link me to one of your tutorials (or anywhere else) that can educate me? Thanks in advance!🤗
It is difficult to give too specific advice because everybody is different and at different levels, but maybe check out this post: jenslarsen.nl/how-to-learn-jazz-guitar-suggestions-to-begin-studying/
Just one question: what's the name of the Book you showed where appears all the discography? Maybe you can type it down pls? 😊 Great vid as always btw!
Great video, as always! Question: As a beginner coming from rock/pop music, should I try to develop some proficiency with scales, theory and improvisation before I try learning a standard?
Thank you! No, you probably should not do that. It is difficult to give too specific advice because everybody is different and at different levels, but maybe check out this post: jenslarsen.nl/how-to-learn-jazz-guitar-suggestions-to-begin-studying/
Exellent I really like what you do! I have a question :, do you prefer the Ibanez PM200 or the Ibanez AF2000 ? Who has more The so-called "mellow tone"? Thanks 🙏
Jens for the most part I agree with you, but it seems a bit of a blanket statement to shrug all fusion as "instrumental pop music with chorus". I've been a huge Pat Metheny fan since the late '70s, he hates chorus pedals and his music is definitely far better composed than regular "pop music". He and Lyle Mays' musical knowledge and great taste in chord progressions and melody was very impressive, especially considering how young they were in their early albums. Of course Pat is only one example, but I can point out other great fusion musicians and bands who have just as impressive songwriting skills and do not use chorus. Bryan Hughes, Allen Hinds, Allan Holdsworth, SpyroGyra, etc.... ;-)
Well, it is not a blanket statement in any way. I am just telling you how I reacted to the music that was played for me. He didn't play me any Pat Metheny and I had never heard any Pat Metheny at that point. The music I heard sounds like the fragment I used in the video. Does that make more sense?
I never saw Metheney as a "Fusion" player. He just had his own voice from day one. And when he plays straight through an amp with a simple trio,it's Bebop City all day long . Truly the last big name Jazz player on guitar to come down the pike with something new to say.
2:15 - I remember seeing Dire Straits Live and enjoyed but was surprised when Mark Knopfler played the extended solo on Sultans of Swing from the album, Alchemy, note for note. I think it would be hard to improve that solo in any way, but I really thought he was going to improvise an amazing ending to that song, and admit I was a little disappointed.
Something that is little discussed is the fact that if you can play what you pre-hear in your mind's ear, simply playing the melody as written is a good place to start. This is not about "learning licks". If you ask even non musicians to sing a few bars of popular music tunes, you appreciate how the human voice and communications are possible. Even untrained musicians unless tone deaf can approximate the melody of a popular song they know. So, many musicians can reproduce their recorded solos "note by note" because they pre-hear the melody. But remember that no one pays to hear you reproduce Wes Montgomery's solo. Find your own path.
Wow man you play mean rock music too huh? And also know Mathematics... And your editing skills are awesome and of course you're an amazing jazz musician and teacher. You're a very gifted individual.
@@JensLarsen Possibly the greatest gift of all. How'd you learn how to play fast and improvise fast over that? And just curious but do you still remember the math you learnt at Uni?
@@JensLarsen ah sorry. What i really meant is "thinking in phrases" instead of static chords. Seems like it'd be more logical to practice individual chord-scales in the beginning (to know where the notes are) then switch to "phrase" thinking as we become able to modify the licks to our tastes.
Jens if you dont mind me asking what is the action on your guitars .. i know you use pretty fat strings 🙂(forgot the gauge but I remember you telling us at one point).
@@JensLarsen I don't think you can really say that categorically. Tell me Vai isn't improvising in this song. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WJxoV5O8HUU.html
@@JensLarsen My nails are really fragile. They break all the time. I started taking a supplement of Choline and Inositol about a month ago. It’s supposed to strengthen them. I’m hoping it works.
Learning perspectives; Italian music, that Jewish thing with the chromatic phrase, Russian and German Classical music, and of course the Jazz standards for example, anything is going to help with being a better composer. Note, (I said composer not improviser) Assuming you have that creative type of mindset to begin with. If you do your mind should be able to mutate any part of any song many times over. Alas, you still must build a strong foundation. There are no shortcuts. For example: If you want to hear where you are at in your composition and more importantly be able to relate it to other people who actually know what they are doing and are really serious about it, (Note, I'm talking about knowing the sheet music score) More importantly, you must be able to have swing, harmony, and melody. Because if you don't, you will lose all interest in the daunting task of performing such a function. The poor guy with the guitar all alone is going to win that one every time. Picture the caterpillar in Allison and Wonderland. Other than that: three things that will ruin your ability to learn a complete Jazz standard, "Be yourself dummy." I don't mean what I'm about to say personally, your contribution here on RU-vid is greatly appreciated, "Take a menstrual cycle pill and bug off."
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