Capaldi cemented himself as the Doctor for me in the penultimate episode of season 8, "Dark Water", when he tells Clara "Do you think I care about you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
Capaldi may have had a divisive era. But my god he was so damn good as The Doctor. Love that they finally attempted that kind of Doctor's story-arc. Colin Baker is incredible as The Doctor in the Big Finish audios, it's a shame when they tried to do the whole "the doctor has changed, and now he's angry and we're questioning if he's a good man or not" with him in the 80s didn't work. (and some people do argue it didn't work with Capaldi either, but i love it. His season with Bill Potts is so underrated.)
@@TomGallagherSuperboyBeyond Honestly, Capaldi's era was only really divisive at first because they were writing Matt Smith scripts (Robinhood anyone) and were learning how to write Capaldi scripts (they have much more divergent acting styles than Smith had with Tennant). Then of course add the ever more-progressively inconsistent writing of Clara, and the killing of Bill just when we'd finally started getting really attached to her as a companion.
Capaldi and his era sadly never worked for me. To be honest, I was already unhappy with the direction the show had been taking for much of Smith's era, so I was really needing Capaldi to turn things around for me, and I just didn't find his Doctor to be that engaging. I respect them for going for an older actor, rather than sticking with younger nerd-crush types, but while NuWho had done a bang-up job casting the previous 3 Doctors, Capaldi's just fell a bit flat with me. It didn't help that he was somewhat overshadowed by Clara, who I find similarly uninteresting (not that there isn't potential there, mind you). Anyway, early on in Capaldi's second season, I decided the show wasn't working for me and stepped away from Doctor Who for the second time in my life (the first time being in the classic show, during the 7th Doctor's run--after the show went in a direction I didn't care for during the previous Doctor, resembling what happened during Capaldi--with the exact moment I noped out of there being "The Happiness Patrol" when he glued the Candyman's feet to the floor with lemonade). Then I jumped back in with Whittaker, when the show was definitely different, even if I still had issues with it. I hung in there for two seasons, hoping they'd find their feet, but they didn't, and after "The Timeless Children", I stepped away again, and at this point, I'm wondering if the show is ever going to be for me again. Some of the things I'd be looking for them to change have existed, to some degree, from the beginning of NuWho, even if they later got worse, or at least became tiresome after being run into the ground. I'm tired of too much focus on relationship drama within the TARDIS, between the Doctor and his companions. I'm not saying there isn't anything to explore there, but the universe outside the TARDIS is much larger, and while classic Who could sometimes be overly dispassionate when it came to the Doctor, I kind of liked the more distant, avuncular take, where the Doctor was interesting and clever, but the stories were more about exploring interesting new worlds and concepts with the Doctor as a vessel to facilitate that. But more important than that is that I prefer science fiction to space magic. Doctor Who has always had fantastical elements, but it's increasingly felt like it doesn't care about science fiction, and has fully embraced magic (albeit using some sci-fi terminology), and I hate that. I want the show to feel a bit more grounded, at least relative to where it is now. And I'd like the settings to feel more real and less like just a springboard to more TARDIS drama or whatnot. The show just feels like it's become entranced by its own cleverness, and caught up in ideas and twists without laying the proper foundations to give them weight, and make them feel real. A lot of it just feels unconvincing and unearned. And for love of god, can we please stop having companions from modern day Earth? That's so incredibly boring, and it's been done to death. Give me a Leela, a Romana, a Zoe, or a Jamie... somebody from the future, or past, or some other world entirely. With all the possibilities of Doctor Who, it's bizarre that they've almost entirely been trapped in the same modern day Earth box when it comes to companions. People are savvy to science fiction these days, and aren't going to be unable to identify with a show if the companion is from a space station or something.
I hated Peter Capaldi in that episode. The volcano confrontation is one of my favourite moments in Doctor Who but Peter Capaldi ruined the scene that came directly after it. His hypocritical and self-righteous performance, on top of saying "I was curious to see how far you would go" which confirms that he intentionally prolonged Clara's pain as a sick test, emphasised the sociopathy and staggering lack of self-awareness that his "Doctor" had been showing for the entire season. The scene was supposed to emphasise Peter Capaldi's softer side but ended up emphasising that he was accidentally playing the Valeyard. If the Valeyard had a redemption arc, it would be exactly like what Peter Capaldi was portraying which would be fine if not for one huge problem. It was completely unintentional. Peter Capaldi had been pushing Clara to her breaking point ever since Deep Breath and to be fair, that part was a story decision. However, ranting and raving in the most self-righteous way possible after Clara finally snapped because her boyfriend had just died was an acting decision. The Doctor knew this was going to happen - he was prepared for it - so Peter Capaldi's acting made him look like an outright villain who was just looking for an excuse to flex his moral superiority. And just to rub salt in the wound, he outright gaslit Clara by claiming that she was the one whining after she spent the entire scene letting him vent without complaint. It's one of those scenes that made me wish Peter Capaldi would just shut the hell up and regenerate. He could have delivered the whole thing with quiet disappointment, acknowledging the betrayal but trying not to make Clara feel even worse than she already did. He could have even salvaged "Cut out the whining" by saying it to himself instead of to her. The performance that Peter Capaldi actually delivered made me despise him even more than I already did. Where's John Hurt when you need him? It wasn't until The Zygon Inversion that I believed Peter Capaldi could play the Doctor correctly. And even that was only in the "Sit down and talk!" scene. After that, he went back to being uninspiring at best and insufferable at worst until Heaven Sent, which finally showed that he could carry an episode but only if a script is specifically written to play to his strengths. Peter Capaldi's an actor with a very specific set of skills. Being focussed, angry and miserable worked for Heaven Sent because it's all the episode required from him. However, the "Am I a good man?" character arc needed an actor with more range. Whenever Peter Capaldi tried to be eccentric, he came across as so scared of hamming it up, something David Tennant, Matt Smith and even Christopher Ecclestone were never afraid to do, that he held back. It took all the spontaneity out of this supposedly alien creature. Hell, even when Peter Capaldi was crying whilst saying goodbye to Clara in Face The Raven, his thin lipped smile as he said "Stay with me" made him look like a crocodile. I half expected him to reveal that her death was part of some twisted "greater good" plan. It's very easy to convince me that somebody is actually crying, so if Peter Capaldi can't do it, that says a lot about how much his reputation has been exaggerated.
I honestly wouldn’t mind if the master turned out to be the timeless child. Obviously I want it retconned entirely but if anyone made the decision to make it so the master was the timeless child then I wouldn’t be too mad.
What does retconning it from Doctor to Master do? I mean, we’ve seen prior incarnations of the Doctor, Doctor still appears to have been a part of the Division…so just changes the Doctor from the only being of his species known in our universe, so some genetically modified agent given unlimited lives and treated like crap by his people. I’m completely fine with this twist. I think it fixes a lot of issues, especially going forward, but at its core, doesn’t change who we know the Doctor is. Life lesson from this retcon: your past doesn’t have to define who you are.
I'd be fine with with a soft fix like the cracks in time, or even just forgetting. Honestly, moving on is more important. Bring old fans back with Tennant. Keep new fans with new Doctor. Forget the bs and have a new arc. Also I hope Russell T actually has a good successor. I don't care if a story is 'woke'. I don't care if the doctor is black, female, gay or whatever. I only care it's a good story, and the doctor has the same core personality.
I think a soft reboot is the most likely way forward. The problem with it is I think too much of the core audience, quite fairly, want the Timeless Children retconned. I'll be giving the new Doctor a go, but a lot of people have been done with the show for a long time now as a result of it. As I said in the video I agree with the woke point, they just need to be making good stories again. Fingers crossed!
I think much of the criticism of Jodi Whittaker’s Doctor is displaced misogyny. Rosa was the single scariest piece of fiction i’ve ever experienced. The Advanced Scout Dalek was the most innovative addition to a classic mobster. As far as the Timeless Child crap, i’ve long said we don’t take the villain’s word for the hero’s exposition. The bad guy lies. For instance, does anyone believe that The Doctor would be so stupid as to believe he would survive if his previous incarnation was pt to death? If the Master is to be believed, then that’s exactly what happened with The Valeyard. Of course The Master is lying.
@@jesseszymcik3026 I dont think misogyny is required when there is no much valid to complain about. Rosa for example I thought was a terrible piece of writing. If its meant to be historical its not, its wildly inaccurate. It unfairly portrays white people of the time as all being horrible racists instead of many being supporters of equality which is what allowed for change to occur as if white America didnt change nothing else would. The 'villain' is paper thin and lacks a real motivation and has no character he is just a space racists with no interesting features or personality. The plot makes no sense - why does the Doctor let bad guy walk away to wreck chaos after pointing out he cant physically harm anyone including her when she could just have had everyone grab him and take him away in the TARDIS there and then? Why do they risk arrest going to plan what to do next in a hotel they arent legally allowed and not in the perfectly safe and secure TARDIS parked down the road? Why does anyone thinking stopping Rosa doing her protest that night would change anything long term when she was just symptimatic of a mass wide spread growing organisation and movement that would have happened anyway? And probably worse of all the Doctors new companion Ryan effectively murders someone and in a story supposedly about compassion, empathy and caring for others our new Doctor doesnt care a jot, its so unDoctor like it breaks the character and undermines and contradicts all the other themes of the episode - the message here is be kind to be people you politically agree with but if you think the person is a racist then be as immoral, cruel, heartless as you please its fine, in fact celebrate it say by an uplifitng whooping in the street after you murder them like Ryan did, after all why not there are no consequences here. Especially not moral ones as all the morality is broken in this era. What does this Doctor stand for, after her entire run I still dont know. And then the whole mess ends on the Doctor just reading out Rosa Parks wiki entry in yet another stupifing exposition dump. Its a horrible mess of an episode around a worthy ideal at its core and worthy subject matter - but all handled like amateur childrens my first story writing hour. The problem isnt that there is a woman in the lead role, the problem is no one of any gender could make the appalling writing sound or seem good. Its fundamentally flawed and broken at the most basic of creative levels.
@@jesseszymcik3026 There's definitely elements of criticism that are influenced by misogyny and/or politics. But there's also a lot to legitimately criticise in the era unfortunately. Personally I really like a lot of what the era was going for, and I agree that it had some really great ideas - it just tended to deliver fairly shallow episodes that didn't really capitalise on the strength of those ideas. You can't really just handwave away TTC with 'the Master was lying'. You also have to explain Ruth, the fob watch, and why Tecteun, Swarm, Azure and Karvanista all recognise the Doctor as the Timeless Child. It's not impossible to retcon it if you really want to, but honestly at this point it'd take so much effort that just letting it be quietly forgotten is the better option. EDIT: P.S. I figure the Valeyard knew a way to survive the death of his previous self. Although it's possible that he didn't and he was just so desperate he took the chance anyway.
I agree the Timeless Children at a minimum has to be retconned. Ideally retcon the entire Chibnall era. I always considered the weakest era of Who writing to be Pip and Jane Baker but the Chibnall era makes those episode feel like Citizen Kane. The writing was awful and the characters both shallow and unlikeable.
I love the idea of having the Fugitive Doctor be an alternate universe Doctor. As far as the Timeless Children thing, I think just making it out to be a lie by The Master would suffice. But why would he have made up that particular lie? Lord, I could just throttle Chibnall for what he did to Doctor Who.
An interresting twist could be that it is the Master who is the Timeless child, and not the doctor, it would explain his hate and anger towards the other timelords abit extra
@@blackult Esspecially if he is only subconsciously aware of it and something he and the Doctor did on a mission before getting their titles caused them to regenerate and took each other's names to protect the eventual Master, all the while finding out about the Timeless Child... That information of course then being wiped from their memories and the Timelord records still showing that the name The Doctor came back claiming to be, was the Timeless Child.
Why would the Master choose this particular lie? In story to break the Doctor. In real life to break the Fans ELEPHANT in the room: regeneration is just a tack on. They are called Time Lords, not Regeneration Lords. Discovering Time-travel is the big deal and Chibnal has never heard of it
Could go a step further, instead of him telling an outright lie, make it that he misinterpreted the information he gathered from the Matrix - by all accounts the data was sketchy recovered information. He didn't lie, but was simply wrong. Fugitive Doctor can then be explained as being an alternative universe or Season 6b version. As we luckily didn't see any other incarnations that could still cover her as a potential story.
Totally agree. The Timeless Children has to be retconned somehow. Just having the Master lying would do it. I really like the Ruth Doctor and I hope she can return but in a better way.
@@DarthNerdus1 The only thing I dislike in series 10 is they set up Bill having a strained relation with her foster-mum, but there’s never any resolution to it. Although the same could be said about Clara’s parents. They also show that Clara has a strained relationship with her mum in time of the doctor, but never follow up on it. I think this was because Moffat isn’t as interested in secondary characters, but then why set up the companions having troubled relationships with their families at all? Also, it didn’t make sense how in episode 1 the pilot seemed to be effecting Heather, whereas in the doctor falls Heather goes back to acting normal again.
I tend to agree. S10 didn't necessarily have the strongest stories but Capaldi is totally in his groove as the Doctor and his friendly professor-student relationship with Bill is so refreshing after the intensity of the Clara one. And having Nardole to bounce off works great too (quick point at that for the people who keep insisting that the show works best with only one companion). @@benjaminwilson2945 Once Amy's family was restored we never saw them again either. Seems to be a Moffat quirk. I think we can reasonably assume that Heather and the alien space fuel came to an understanding during all the time they travelled together, and her initial appearance was mostly down to teething issues.
I think you could make it that someone fooled the Master into believing that the Doctor was the source of the Timelords. There aren't many that could create that information for the Master to find, possibly Davros getting the Master to destroy the Timelords for him after what happened on Skaro, or possibly even another Timelord with a grudge, like Rassillon for being exiled by the Doctor?
This makes me wonder if RTD is going to go for something similar to what you suggested. Because it's pretty obvious that Neil Patrick Harris is going to be playing The Celestial Toymaker, who definitely likes to mess with both The Doctor and The Master. I think it was mentioned in Classic Who or something.
I always thought the Fugitive Doctor fit better with the Season 6B theory than anything else. Having a missing regeneration between Troughton and Pertwee also retcons Moffat's throwaway line of "Ten regenerated and kept the same face" as it made no sense.
"Ten regenerated and kept the same face" wasn't a throwaway line, we saw it happen in _Journey's End._ And it was vital to the plot - Tennant regenerating into himself and channeling all the excess regeneration energy into his severed hand is how the DoctorDonna and the Metacrisis Doctor were created.
As one of the fan's who left during Jodie's first season, all of what you've said is spot on. I don't blame Jody, nor do I think that a female doctor is a bad idea, after all Missy was a fantastic Master.
Chris Chibnall left such a mess that a simple alternate reality story could put the Doctor back to where Steven Moffat left him and reset the universe. RTD is always talking about the multiverse and Tennant's return seems to show something has gone wrong with time and space.
I like to think the Whittaker Doctor never existed in the same universe as the other Doctors. Something happened when Capaldi regenerated and every second of what followed took place in a different reality. I have never rewatched a single episode of the Chibnall disaster and I never will. I was browsing ItvX the other day and I realised I couldn't bring myself to watch anything with Whittaker in because her annoying voice would bring back too many bad memories.
I am not sure that addressing the Timeless Child too early is necessary. I think that if it was ignored and not referenced (EVER), it would be a better start. Perhaps future stories could clarify an alternative history. I will never forget seeing the Promos for Jody Whittaker as the Doctor.. I was quite excited as I felt she looked perfect for the role of the new 'female' Doctor. It's a shame her time on the show was sabotaged by terrible/weak stories and bad dialogue. Really looking forward to RTD's return and the fresh take that Gatwa will hopefully bring.
That's certainly an option, I'm not sure it'll get a lot of those that feel the show is dead to them back though. I was looking forward to Whittaker too, especially given how good Missy was, so the idea of a gender change wasn't an issue at all. Got everything crossed for Gatwa, if he doesn't work out I'm not sure the show has much of a shelf life left.
Yeah, it's like other things from DW history that they just ignore, like being half-human or Seven being more than just another Time Lord. I'm happy if they just get on with some fun and engaging stories.
@@DarthNerdus1 Personally, I just want Chibnall's era wiped from history and replaced with mine - you get four different Doctors with much better story ideas (though the Sixteenth Doctor's first series is currently being worked on)
@@DarthNerdus1 My guess is, as long as the relaunch brings good, interesting stories with likeable, interesting characters the fans will come back once word gets around about that. Honestly, Timeless Child or no Timeless Child I suspect most fans wouldn't feel the show is dead to them if Chibnall's era had mostly felt like good quality Doctor Who. Long term Who fans are pretty good at going "That's kind of dumb but sure, whatever, moving on...". But we need them to throw us a bone every so often. S2 and S3 contained quite a bit of crap, but we forgave them because they gave us _Girl in the Fireplace_ and _School Reunion_ and _Blink_ and _Human Nature._ The highest Chibnall's era ever hit was "quite good" (I'm quite fond of _Demons of the Punjab_ and _Spyfall Part 1_ personally). But it never gave us a _Blink_ or a _Midnight_ or a _Turn Left_ with enough wow to offset all the drek. A fair bit of it came frustratingly close. There are quite a few episodes in S11 in particular that feel like they could've been pretty amazing if they'd just been given one more decent editing pass.
Nah it needs to be addressed tbh cause the doctor having unlimited regenerations literally takes every bit of tension away from the show. “Ahh.. I’ll die to save this human but it’s alright I got unlimited regenerations anyway xxx”
Honestly, I have every hope in Davies taking the show and running with it again. Look at his incredible writing credits in any genre! He alone was responsible for the 2005 reboot being the phenomena that it was. It's in his blood! Plus he's been away from the project for so many years, betcha socks he's been brimming with ideas in that time 😅 Only thing that could make things even more perfect is to have Steven Moffat along to help out! 🤗🤞 (* edit, can you tell I'm excited? 🤔🤣)
I don’t like the timeless children either but I think retconning it is unlikely for the near future as I feel Russel would rather ignore the baggage of the previous era. The timeless children didn’t get great ratings either, so is there much point retconning something the general public doesn’t know about and might cause confusion among new and returning viewers? I think it’s more likely the show will just ignore it, like it did with the idea of the doctor being half human (although hellbent also made reference to the doctor being half human) I think the timeless children may be retconned one day, but I don’t know if now is the time to do it. It would be a shame if people couldn’t enjoy the new era just because the timeless children isn’t explicitly retconned. Imagine if people didn’t watch series 1 in 2005 just because the doctor being half-human wasn’t explicitly retconned? As long as the stories are good, I’m fine. (Just my opinion, not telling others how go watch the show).
I suppose the main difference there is that the vast majority of the core audience was going to watch the 2005 reboot regardless, whereas a lot of the core audience has now turned it's back on the show. I would hope they'll give 15 a go, but I understand if they don't want to watch. You hear so many people say the show is dead to them that at least some form of retcon might entice them to come back, and it's that core audience the show badly needs to return, as the general audience will always flit in and out. It's such a thorny issue though, as the internet proves! We'll see what happens, but what we all want above all else is good Doctor Who.
I'd just have the 15th doctor have an episode or scene on Gallifrey talking to timelords for a mission or something just retconning all of Chibnall with one scene.
For sure you are right that the characters in the Chibnall era were not as fully developed as they have been in the past. It hurt the show because they often didn't generate emotional attachment. The few that did like John Bishop's Scouser are far more watchable than the main cast, even Annabel Scholey as Claire Brown got a better deal than the companions. The Doctor obviously suffered from this quite often but the specials were much better to her and you got some of what could have been if Jody had been given the material to work with. As for the sonic being used to fix everything, that's been a problem for years and when the writing is not as good it is always the crutch used to resolve things (see Sylvester McCoy as the Doctor for reference). Now the leaves the Timeless Child and the one thing I don't agree with at all. The Doctor was always unique, no other Time Lord could be called on to push the button and end the time war. No other time lord is out there helping people, fixing the many problems alone the way. No other time lord could look in to the time stream and see that it needed to be fixed, no not fixed, nurtured and helped back to fitness. It needed a Doctor.
The show doesn't even have to explicitly reference the Timeless Child in order to fix the damage it's done to the character. Literally all that needs to happen is for there to be a throwaway line where someone says "the matrix can be unreliable", with a maybe a quick justification of that manufactured memories can be implanted into the matrix or alternatively that the matrix has some kind of security feature that gives false information as a way to trick people with unauthorised access without revealing real secrets. BOOM, fixed. Efficient and uncomplicated. No need for an entire episode or season to be dedocated to addressing it, just a short bit of dialogue thst lasts for like 5 seconds, 10 seconds maximum, to plug the hole that retcon caused, and then the show can just focus on new adventures with the 15th Doctor and onwards. Something as small as that is at least enough to make it open to personal fan interpretation whether what the matrix showed 13 was accurate or not, so us who didn't like it can brush it off as just a fake memory either manufactured by the Master or by the matrix itself as a protection measure, but without pissing off the fans who did like it (they do exist). Leaving it subjective like that is the perfect way to satisfy everyone and unite the fanbase.
I don't disagree in part. I'd certainly take something like that over nothing, but I feel that for a large portion of the fanbase that wouldn't be far enough. I think, once you start down that road, you might as well do something more substantial, get it over with, and move on. Certainly not a season or entire episode though. That being said, given the new RTD era is being branded as 'Season 1' etc, seemingly rebooting the show, I don't feel that anything will be done now, and they'll just create distance that way through time and branding. But we'll see!
having the master as the timeless child would have been so much more interesting, the fact that part of the master is in the doctor is far more interesting than the other way around
An easy retcon of the Timeless Child is simple... The Master was correct from what he could put together. However, the Timelords were unaware of as it was only between The Doctor and The Master, BEFORE they chose their titles (though this does keep the Division aspect). On an initial mission similar to a Quarian Pilgrimage, the two individuals we will call A and B ended up being the real reason Omega was stuck in the Antimatter universe, but not before Omega injures them both enough to regenerate and revealed to both of them that A is the timeless child. A cannot accept this fact, is completely disturbed, has a near-psychotic break. However, since they regenerated, no one else knows their identities. So, B offers to trade names with A so that his secret will remain, pointing out that they'd be trading in their names soon anyway. When they return, they are awarded full commendations and take on their monikers that they chose themselves. The FORMER B going by A takes on the moniker of The Doctor, while FORMER A going by B takes on the moniker of The Master.
Thank you for your video. While I was not a fan of the timeless child, the idea that the doctor was more than just another time lord has been around for a very long time. The obvious connection is rhe morbius doctors , but that can be written off fairly easily. In the latter part of the original series, there was the Cartmel Master plan, which suggested the doctor was a founder of gallifrey alongside Omega and Rasilon, but, like all time lords we was put back into the loom and came out again later as the doctor. He was known as the other. This is alluded to in silver nemesis as well as other 7th doctor stories. There are also connections in the deadly assassin which was many years earlier. The virgin new adventure books and the bbc books dig into this pretty handily (of course you might not consider these as cannon) but these books have been used as references and inspiration for the new series over and over again. I’m not making a case for this being good or bad, I’m simply saying that this is not a new concept and was put in place in the classic series - and the mystery of the doctor, and the doctor”s name (which is referenced a lot in new who) is an important part of the series … All that said - Terrence dicks would have agree with you as he was on the record as saying, “the doctor is a time lord from gallifrey and that’s it”
I would say we have to make the fugitive Doctor a season 6B. The idea goes that right begore 2nd regenerates into 3rd, the Celestial Intervention Agency plucked him out of his time stream, making him a splinter in time. They did that because he had, shall we say "limitless potential", wanting to make him into their Agent, the Doctor gives in. That's one of the reasons in some multi-Doctor stories with Patrick Troughton had grey hair, that was the splinter in time 2nd Doctor. Somewhere in "Agent Troughton's" life, he was attacked, possibly by Swarm, and regenerated into the Fugitive Doctor. She runs away from the CIA (or Division, which i would say is the same group, but in different name). They caught her, might have stored her memories in the fob watch for... Idk... Examination... And reverse her to put the Doctor back into their time stream, right back into the moment Troughton regenerates into Pertwee.
To quote film director Alfred Hitchcock, "There are 'three things' that are essential for making a good movie. The script...the script...and the script." Needless to say, actors can only play what is written on the page.
For fans, I believe bringing 10 back is going to be like leaving the radiator fluid out, and the dog getting into it. Super sweet, we'll lap it all up and beg for more, but then when he leaves and 15 comes in, it will be a show killer, and a thousand times harder for 15 to follow a 10 we just got back and don't want to give up again, then it would have been to follow Jodi directly.
I think the Docotor never got out of the Matrix at the end of "Trial of a Time Lord" and has still been on trial since. That would give RTD a blank slate to dowhat he wants!
I liked the scene in the first Whitaker episode where the Doctor is in a workshop, bodging some future tech from bits of junk. My sort of doctor. Sadly, that aspect promptly disappeared. Doctor Ruth uses a police-box TARDIS, implying that she is post-Hartnell or other-dimensional. The child being discovered abandoned and having regeneration ability could work if the child was a Time Lord child from the future who waited for the parents' TARDIS to return after they popped off somewhere dangerous but they never came back. So you have a time loop where the Time Lords discover infinite regenerations from their future selves, then come up with a mechanism to artificially restrict the number of regenerations. The restriction breaks down when the Time Lords are destroyed. Or perhaps the limit was psychosomatic anyway. Either way, the Doctor being the timeless child doesn't make the Doctor any more special than any other Time Lord. I agree that the Chibnall era had too much "telling" and not enough "showing".
Timeless children will 100% not be retconed. Russel already used it during the lockdown animation, the novice hame one...he stated that the doctor has used hundredss of faces, forms...the men, women and animals. That is cannon. He wont erase it.
FINALLY! Someone else who realizes that Jo Martin would make a fantastic *parallel universe* Doctor! One who uses guns and resorts to fighting more often than running. Maybe the Division, and even this most recent incarnation of the Master (who mysteriously turned up with no explanation still), could both have originated in the Martin Doctor Universe. Then, just bled into ours.
That's totally where I thought (hoped) Series 12 was going, especially with what was revealed about the Kasaavin in _Spyfall._ Sadly, I was mistaken... ☹
i think the last era was different but i think id be hard pressed to call it bad personally. quite liked the timeless child idea as well. after 50 years was nobody asking why there never seems to be another decent timelord?! well we got our answer there are hardly any because it was built on the pure exploitation of an alien they even restricted the limit of regeneration and even then it was only given to the elite. as the 7th doctor said he is "far more then just another time lord"
I'm honestly glad you were able to enjoy it. I know some people did and fair play to them. Personally, I've always been happy with the Doctor just being a renegade Time Lord, he didn't need to anything more than that.
@@DarthNerdus1an attempt to make the doctor more important character was made in the 1989 season called the cartmel masterplan that never got fully executed due to the cancellation in 1989 Chris just fully executed the cartmel masterplan and it’s ok that people don’t like the timeless child but it opens up the story telling to not have to worry about a limit to regeneration that doesn’t the doctor is going to all of a sudden be more reckless or anything the show is good for not addressing things like how the master was able to return in season 12 after dying in season 10 for example
This, exactly, my thoughts exactly. I have no problem with the timeless child storyline. The other time lords throughout the history of DW have shown thenceforward to be impotent bastards. This story actually puts the Doctor in context!
Having seen how NuWho constantly relies on the sonic screwdriver to solve everything (magic wand is a great term for it), I can see why, in Classic Who, JNT got rid of it
I don't think RTD can pull the whole "it was a lie" with the timeless child. No matter how bad it was, that's quite the professional kick in the teeth to do so soon after the original story. It would need to be handled with a lot more subtly. My guess is that it will be ignored for a while or RTD does something to turn the idea on its head without a full retcon.
2 other issues that need resolving. 1) They also need to sort out the numbering of the Doctor's. Canon numbering after Paul McGann (8th Doctor): 9th Doctor (John Hurt) - called himself the Doctor twice. "Also the Doctor" & "For this moment, I am the Doctor again", he's the canon 9th incarnation. 10th Doctor (Christopher Eccleston) 11th Doctor (David Tennant) 12th Doctor (David Tennant) - regenerated but kept the same fact due to "vanity issues". 13th Doctor (Matt Smith) - told Clara he'd used up all his regenerations. 14th Doctor (Peter Capaldi) - first of a new regeneration cycle. 15th Doctor (Jodie Whittaker) 16th Doctor (David Tennant) 17th Doctor (Schuti Gatwa) - only 9 more Doctor's until the writers need to find a way give the character more regenerations. NB: David Tennant has now played 4 Doctor's (11, 12, Meta-Crisis, & 16). 2) Regenerations and Time Lords: During the 4th Doctor's era, Romana explained regenerations, and that the Doctor had long ago chosen who HE was, and that now not even Doctor or the Time Lord's could change this. This was the writers putting it on screen (and into canon) that the Doctor could never change gender. Later it was explained that there were Time Lords and Time Lady's, male and female genders as on Earth, and that Time Lady's have a better control over their regenerations then the men, shown when Romana regenerated and she showed off several potential new female forms to the 4th Doctor. Time Lord is used a general identifying term, like how huMANity, huMAN, MANkind are used on Earth. So having Time Lord's changing gender screws up the well established background of the species (the Master would no doubt find a way). Also, not all Gallifreyans can regenerate, only those who have been selected have this ability.
Ncuti is a great actor, a great emotional actor. Millie is a very good actor and she’s gorgeous. RTD is a great emotional writer and Ncuti is soooo charismatic…Doctor Who’s future’s so bright, we gotte wear shades!
All good points they also have to address the fact that it was hardly ever on, and didn't have that many episodes as it progressed, it all got a bit sad in the end, and people just switched off
I was also thinking most modern successful shows these days have at least 18 episodes and are on at the same time each week. The BBC has to move with the times as it's not just completing with ITV ,but with the likes of Netflix and Amazon for viewership. DR WHO, the Doctor him/herself and proper story telling in the established cannon of the show deserve better. Considering how much the compulsory licence fee is, they can well afford it.
I agree the Timeless child definitely needs retconned. I think to make it work. Have the Doctor discover he wasn't and never was the timeless child. But the Master actually is. This could explain the Masters madness. He was basically experimented on all those years. Then later in life the put the sound of the drums in his head driving him even further into madness.
0:36 _"transforming him from a man wandering from the universe, helping where he can to a chosen one"._ Not really though? He was "a man wandering the universe" with hyper-intelligence and sufficiently advanced technology that lets him run rings around the universe's greatest armies. Being the only active Time Lord in the universe (other than the Master) makes him basically a god (the show literally *calls* him "the lonely god"). And the show repeatedly tells and shows us that the Doctor is the only one who can save the day. The "Chosen one" train left the station looooong ago. I don't know why people keep thinking the Doctor was some sort of everyman character before this when he's a superhero in all but name since NuWho started. P.S. _"The sole reason for the power of the Time Lords and the power of regeneration"_ Not really. Rassilon and Omega were the primary architects and the mysterious 'the Other' who was hinted at is revealed to be Tecteun. The Timeless Child was mostly a victim and convenient lab rat. And the Time Lords still would've gotten the ability to regenerate from the Time Vortex - being able to copy from the Child just gave them a convenient jumpstart.
@DarthNerdus1 The whole loom thing is the Timelords aren't born but are "Loomed" and the Doctor was loomed from the Other. Instead of being born, they're weaved into existence.
I actually like the idea of the Fugitive Doctor but i agree that RTD have to fix some aspects of timeless child but the idea of the Doctor having infinite regenerations is very interesting for me...
The Doctor doesn't have infinite regenerations. The Timeless Child did, but the Timeless Child was chameleon arched into an infant Gallifreyan. They only have the standard set of regenerations, plus the extra cycle they were given in _Time of the Doctor._
Yes, I love the Fugitive Doctor, she hooked me in the 1st 5 minutes. I do hope they can keep her within the story somehow and not her be forgotten about and left to rot
I wouldn't mind seeing Karvanista again either, he was pretty cool. And I enjoyed Dhawan's take on the Master, too. I'd also like to see Tecteun return somehow and RTD do something more interesting with her. IMO one of the things Chibnall did right was introducing a new Time Lord antagonist who isn't just the Master again. @Darth Nedus there's already an upcoming Fugitive Doctor series on Big Finish. :)
Why would we all rather forget the future 'Ruth' Doctor? I dont want to forget it, Id love to see more of her. You do not speak for me. Please remember that!
I've actually been rewatching the Whittaker era over the last couple of days and, funnily enough, the first series isn't as bad as I remember on the rewatch (though maybe that's because it's not as bad as what came later) And, as much as I hate the Timeless Child bullshit, I feel like we're in kinda too deep for RTD to just quickly write it off and retcon it. Honestly the thing that bothers me the most is Gallifrey just being destroyed again. The first 4 series had the underlying mystery of Gallifrey being lost in the Time War and the Doctor being the last Time Lord left, then the Moffatt era reintroduced it with the 50th culminating in the 12th Doctor making his way back there and bringing potential for Time Lord related stories to come back into the series but nope! Chibnall was just like fuck you it's gone again and now the Time Lords are all Cybermen.
The first series of hers is superbly 'meh'. Destroying Gallifrey was so annoying, it's kind of lost in the Timeless Children but yeah, as you say, the whole point of the 50th was also undone too. RTD is a huge fan of using the Time Lords though, so I don't know if that'll be something that'd be 'fixed' any time soon.
@@DarthNerdus1 Oh yeah, series 11 isn't good in any sense of the word. I just found myself hating it less than when I first watched it. (I think there's only like 2 episodes I actually watched more than once before this week)
I think the Chibnall era actually had a few redeeming qualities. For example I think the staple monsters, like daleks and sontarans were better written than previously. Also it was nice to see other regions of the uk besides London. My main issue with his era was it seemed like nearly every episode had at least one major plot hole. Also the 13th doctor character is inconsistent. Sometimes she’s characterised as being oversharing, while other times she’s the opposite and is characterised as being very withdrawn. This isn’t Jodie’s fault of course though.
I did like the Dalek creating its own shell out of spare parts I have to say, Chibnall does sometimes have good ideas, it's generally the execution that's the problem.
Actually I think the major problem was time, or lack of. He cut the series too short, compared to Capaldi and Smith's runs, meaning it was impossible to get any traction for his ideas. Twit. Him, not you.
Totally agree about the Reconnaissance Daleks. Chibnall did a decent job of doing something new, interesting, and sometimes genuinely scary with an enemy that had become a bit tired. Though I do also have to agree that their new weapons systems in _Resolution_ clearly had terrible targeting, and they'll hopefully retire them (or at least relegate them to niche roles). EDIT: Oh, and regain the ability to easily cut through thin sheet metal doors. :P
I’m glad that although Jodie Whittaker’s three years playing the Doctor is pretty-much universally deplored, Jodie Whittaker herself has received almost none of the blame.
I think that is because people recognized that she had horrific writing to work with and that she could only do so much....if any of the other doctors had the same type of writing they would have had the same problem and type of results.
Can we get someone to plaster Jodie Whittaker‘s face on to David Tennant in his intro in the Christmas invasion? Specifically that bit where he’s shouting “I DON’T KNOW! you see that’s the thing, I’m the doctor, but beyond that I just don’t know.“
It's nice to see people actually acknowledge how terrible her seasons were without the nutcases screaming "NO ITS THE BEST THING EVERRR!!!!" Like rampaging toddlers
I think another way they can retcon the Timeless Children is to have it, in it's entirety, be something along the lines of a Reality Bending Illusion created by whoever the Villian is for the 60th Anniversary Specials. That way the actual good things from the 13th Doctor Era (don't know if there's any since I stopped watching completely at the beginning of Series 12) can be kept while everything else can be written off as an Illusion.
My brother a cool idea of making the fugitive Dr a version of the doctor that never happen. A version of the Dr that was erased from the timeline because of a time travel incident. However she survived not being erased from existence. And perhaps she doesn't remember being erased out of existence and that's what's in the watch. Maybe the time Lords saved her from a eased or potential timeline of the doctor that never happen so that she can work for em but in Dr fashion she ran away but memories of hers have already been erased
Interesting idea, I like it! And that's the thing, if you remove the TC, you can do something very intriguing with the Fugitive Doctor, and you really can choose almost anything.
The biggest one RTD should change is retcon the timeless child. For people saying he should not he already did retcon changed to The Doctor's origin. In the 1996 movie the 8th doctor says he is half human and then when RTD brought the show back he retconned that saying The Doctor is 100% time lord
When did RTD indicate on the show that the Doctor was 100% Time Lord? Did he explain how the Doctor was able to open the Eye of Harmony in the film when it was indicated that you had to be human to do so? (It's also weird that you needed to be human to open a Time Lord device, but that's a separate quibble). IIRC there wasn't a retcon, RTD just quietly forgot about the half-human thing. Which IMO is what he should do here, rather than delving back into a previous showrunner's era. IMO it can't be unexplained in any way that doesn't add more messiness than it resolves. Just let RTD move forward.
i feel like the best ending of the timeless child is a ouroboros where somehow the dr has to go back in time to create the timelords again in order to save them
The last Doctor run was a perfect example of why we say 'show, don't tell.' They kept trying to TELL us how great people were instead of showing us. JW's biggest issue was the writing. She never had the really good scripts to work with.
She really didn't, which is a shame. And yeah, definitely. It's the Martha etc point. Characters doing things that are their qualities, rather than Graham just showering Yaz with unearned praise.
No, there are more of us.... Whilst I thought much of Chibnall's era suffered from poor character development, I thought Jodie did her best with what she was given and that the Timeless Child explained a hell of a lot!!
I think that the secret is going to be the tardis frowning her out in" the woman who fell to earth" was when the toymaker started to mess with the doctors life and changing the memories are his way of starting his revenge. That can fix "the time child" mess.
It'd be an interesting way to do it, but it would be going quite a long way back to retcon. RTD has said recently he doesn't want to write out the Chibnall era. I guess we'll see soon!
0:50 _"It gives us the Doctor's full backstory"_ We already *had* (what was until this reveal) the Doctor's full backstory - raised from a child on Gallifrey, joined the Time Lord academy, stole a TARDIS and ran away to see the universe. We even know that he's so skittish because Clara scared him as a young boy. What important questions are left to be filled in? There's a reason Chibnall had to look before the First Doctor's infancy to create an unexplored Doctor's history - everything else was already mapped out. And that new period is almost completely unexplored, adding some mystery back into the character. The Doctor now has numerous past incarnations that we've never even seen or heard of before. P.S. Which is the point of the reveal. Not to give the Doctor 'heroic origins', but to open up an explored area of the character's history where we don't know who they were or what they were doing, so the character's past can have some surprises left.
Plus the whole point of the backstory is that the Doctor was no one special! Just a misfit kid who ran away from home, after nearly flunking out of the Academy. And after running away he met true evil, and discovered he couldn't just turn away, and in time became a hero. The who concept of Doctor Who rests on an "everyman" becoming a great man, and inspiring his companions to do the same. This is entirely lost with the Chibnal retcon.
@@pjmorley5785 I disagree. Everyone takes TTC to an extreme. The Doctor is still just that. The Doctor is who we know the Doctor as. The Doctor only has the memories of Hartnell to Jodie currently. Yes, the Doctor knows there is a past before then now, but still has had all the experiences that made the Doctor the misfit and want to run away. The Doctor still had those facing evil moments to make the Doctor into who we know today. Were you upset at the retcon of Day of the Doctor where we learned that there was a War Doctor who didn’t actually commit genocide on two species at once?
@@pjmorley5785 I honestly don't understand why people keep painting the Doctor as some sort of an everyman. Have they _watched_ the show (and especially NuWho)? That show about the guy with hyper-intelligence and sufficiently advanced technology that no-one else can come close to? The one about "the lonely god" who, due to his birthright as a Time Lord single-handly vanquishes the most dangerous armies in the universe? Who is shown time and time again to be the only one who can save the day due to his special gifts? Where on Earth are you getting "everyman" from?
Mostly agreed but I did like Ruth though, if the last series had handed over the reins to her for a few episodes I wouldn’t have been disappointed. She was a good Doctor.
Did anyone else notice that Whitaker's Doctor never wore a skirt or a dress and why did the crystal columns around the console stop moveing. I fact I have verry little idea what her Tardis lookes like inside.
Capaldi undergoing his transformation from his doctor to whoever is next as a transformation nightmare that was wittakers doctor and that was all her time was a transformation fever nightmare
You have said many of the things I have been thinking in this. Doctor Who is a resilient format, and it will hopefully bounce back. The Beeb can pretend 13 was a hit and groundbreaking, and that everyone who didn't enjoy her era is a mysogynist but the truth is in the viewing figures and in the way the kids (the real audience for this show, and it's future) have drifted away. I experienced this myself, I was still watching, but not enjoying the show, just to keep up story wise, but my daughter, a then 16 year old manga, anime and sci-fi fantasy fan just lost interest, just as the show was aiming at her, giving her a Doctor to 'identify with', she drifted away because the writing was bad, and the Doctor was boring. You can do anything with Dr Who, but you can't make it boring. The Timeless Child is about Chibnalls ego, him making a mark on the mythos, rather than a good idea, or a compelling story. I don't think they'll recon it, the BBC will refuse to admit openly that anything to do with the female era was unsuccessful as if them backing the money truck up to the doors of RTD and Tennant doesn't scream that... I'm open to the next phase, that tiny little bit of 14 made me giddy with anticipation of the show I love being good again. I hope I'm right
At the end of the day, it always comes down to the writing above all else, and the Chibnall era failed that test repeatedly. What you say about your daughter is a sad indicator of that. I too wasn't enjoying any of it, but I kept going in that vain hope that, eventually, it would change for the better. The BBC moving the timeslot from prime Saturday to Sunday night was a giveaway from the beginning of the decline in the show, though that isn't Chibnall specific in fairness. However, he then torpedoed that boat. Regarding 14, I'm sort of holding those Tennant specials in isolation just for the moment, I think we'll truly see where we're at a few episodes into 15s run. Fingers crossed we all end up back watching the show we used to love.
As an aside the viewing figures aren't a reliable measure. They're trending down in general because people spend are watching less TV in general and because they're watching it in different ways (ie. later over streaming). They're somewhat useful for comparing current shows with other current shows, but not very helpful for comparing to earlier points in time. The environment has changed too much.
@@irrevenant3 That's certainly true to an extent, but Ten averaging around ten million and 13 getting around 3 is more than viewing trends. Also, if your point was a viable option, then I think it is likely the Beeb et al would have used it, rather than the 60% of Who fans are sexist line they took.
@@verngriffiths5933 Can you point me at the Beeb saying 60% of Who fans are sexist? I know they handled the initial backlash fairly poorly - although I also think they were probably fairly correct at that point: When basically all that was known was "the next Doctor is going to be a woman" and people were loudly protesting? It's pretty hard to see that as being down to anything *but* her gender. AFAICT, since Thirteen's run actually debuted, discussion mostly moved past that to discussing the actual problems with that era, and the Beeb changed tack accordingly. Ten's era was peak popularity for the show, and is approaching 20 years ago at this point. The TV landscape was very different in 2006 than it is now. Judging by the figures at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_episodes_(2005%E2%80%93present) there's been a dip since Series 10 (the last non-Chibnall season) but not a huge one. S10 polled around 5.5 million or a little higher. S11 is pretty strong at ~7 million on average, and S12 starts at around 6-7 million then nose-dives down around 5 million - still not far below S10. _Flux_ continues to poll at around 5 million. The post-Flux specials vary a lot. _Legend of the Sea Devils_ polled particularly poorly (and deservedly so) but for the most part _Flux_ polled around 5 million and _The Power of the Doctor_ polled 5.3 million which is pretty much exactly the same as _The Doctor Falls_ (though *much* lower than _Twice Upon a Time)._ Overall Thirteen's era has been pretty comparable to S10. Which is no mean feat in itself. The ratings drop significantly when Tennant leaves, then drop again after Smith leaves (though with a bigger lag). For Thirteen's era to basically retain the same ratings as it inherited from the previous Doctor is a pretty decent outcome, honestly. I can only imagine how well it would've rated if it had made a stronger showing.
@@irrevenant3 sorry, I forgot I was on the internet, of course (as you know because you're not a complete plum) the BBC did not literally say the 60% line, I was just using that colloquially, and I did also say 'et al' inferring to the internet as a whole, or more specifically the bit of the net that felt they had to defend the Whittaker era because of her gender rather than on the quality of the show. I also took a stab at general figures that I remembered off the top of my head, if I remember rightly Tennant high point was around 14m and Jodies' low was 3.4m but I'm sure your numbers are correct. Also, no-one is denying the slide started before Chibnall, the writing was shonky from the end of the Smith era and, for me at least pretty much all the way through the Capaldi (My liver is the wrong colour! is one of the all time terrible lines) and obviously that is where the rot set in. I think, taking the numbers you quote, the best we can say for 13s ratings is that they sort of carried on being as shitty as they had been, that, coupled with the slagging off of the fanbase and refusal to accept that the show needed to improve the quality of writing, has led us to the damp squibs that were the last few specials and the need for Auntie to fork out a ton of dough to RTD and Tennant to try and save what was once their cash cow. And, believe me, I whole-heartedly hope they do.
Sometimes it's better just to ignore things. As long as the new stories are good fans will be fine with leaving it alone. An example would be the 1996 Movie revelation that The Doctor was half human. It was never mentioned again (at least in primary canon) and presumably retconned.
U can infer that the hybrid from the end of season 9 was moffat bringing it back up again but he left the hybrid open to interpretation so he wouldn’t have to technically bring that up we could choose to make the doctor the hybrid cause of his half human side
I just don’t understand why so many people hate the Timeless Child. It solves a lot of problems (including not ever having to worry about somehow getting the Time Lords on Gallifrey to gift him a new “set” of regenerations). It makes the Time Lords more evil species (they’ve always been bad - see Rasilon in The End of Time). But they took a lost being, the only one of its kind known in the universe, and tested and poked and prodded it, to find out how to technically live forever, but didn’t even share it with all people on their planet, only select people. It explains how they’ve treated the doctor thru the generations we’ve already seen (including War). And nothing about Timeless Child makes the Doctor more “heroic”. He’s still The Doctor we know and love at the core, it doesn’t change who the Doctor is, it’s The Fugitive Doctor ran, trying to do the right thing when she figured out about The Division. Very Doctor-y. So we know the core character of the Doctor seems to run thru the memory wipes, so it isn’t changing who the Doctor is, the Doctor just has a larger past. It also doesn’t change ANYTHING from Doctors we know. The Doctor still had all those adventures and character traits and companions. So what if there is a larger past we don’t know about? There’s plenty of time to learn and expand on if it they want to. It also opens up spin offs. I’d LOVE to have a whole series of one off episodes bringing in various known and unknown actors to play The Doctor and companions for single stories. Get more fun insight into Doctors larger newly discovered past. It’s just a fun thing everyone bashes on, and seems more of a “it changed things..waaaa I don’t like it” criticism.
@beef business but WHY do you think it’s an awful plot and poorly executed. I thought it was good, it’s fun, it adds more mystery to the Doctor, gives a lot of backstory, lot of wiggle room. Everything can be improved, even the best Ep has flaws.
@@drewteague4238 Because it needlessly offered an answer to a mystery that didn't need an answer, and the answer it gave you shat in the face of the legacy of the show and William Hartnell in particular.
@@ianbanks3016 I just don’t understand why it “shat” on anything. This is a show to go into the wildness of time and space and aliens. So what if your understanding of how the time lords became time lords changed? That’s like saying killing off the rest of the time lords and making the Doctor “the last of his kind” was pointless and “shat” on the lore of William Hartnell and him “running away” from the Time Lords/Gallifrey. I like knowing more about the backstory of the time lords, where the Doctor came from, why the time lords are the buttheads they are in general. It’s not that they naturally evolved as a species to become time lords with regeneration abilities…they stole the “dna” and rewrote their own and became cocky and have a larger self inflated ego of their status in the Universe. All at the expense of the Doctor. It explains why they have treated him as they did. Is any storyline perfect? No. Is this one? No, but I just don’t think it’s as “horrible” as people claim it is, especially when most seem to just whine that it changes the general lore and they don’t like change.
@@ianbanks3016 and you’re calling the doctor’s backstory a “mystery”…so you like not knowing, so it seems that you knowing is what makes you hate it, because there is no more mystery. But there’s a TON of mystery left, that remains unanswered and will likely remain unanswered under RTD’s second tenure. We have mystery of The Division, of How many incarnations the Doctor has truly had since Tecteun found the Doctor, what the Doctor’s species and location of origin is, what the Doctor was like as the Fugitive Doctor and other surrounding incarnations that realized the bad nature of the Division. It covers there having to be a crazy explanation of how Doctor gets new set of regenerations after we get to 26th Doctor (granted that’s a long time away). It gives opportunities for spin off series with prior incarnations pre-Hartnell exploring the Division. Introducing new actors as the Doctor and the Companion to do mini series or one off episode series, which cover the height of the Time Lords. It opens the Whoiverse to a ton of possibilities and creative new plots and everything. Especially with RTD creating spin-offs, if they stick, could really grow the Whoiverse.
Timeless child 100% needs to just be retconned. Can’t just be forgotten about. There’s zero tension otherwise. The doctor sacrifices himself for his friend and there’s no real stakes. “Ah it’s ok, I’ll sacrifice this body for you. I got unlimited regenerations anyway xx”
I totally want them to recon the Timeless Child. It messes up our idea of a certain amount of doctors. Also, doesn't it say that the doctor wasn't only humanoid, but animals, too?
I have literally 0 opinion of Ncuti because I haven't watched anything with him in it, however I actually hope he surprises me and knocks it out of the park and shows that he IS the doctor within that first episode like 9,10,11 & 12 did
Been looking forward to RTD's return to action, but also Mr. Tennant's. Didn't know they'd tapped someone else to replace him already. Now, I'm conflicted. He and the new companion will have to be extra-good after teasing me with DT or I'm going to be quite put out.
Perhaps the Ruth Doctor is kind of the equal and opposite reaction to The Valeyard. An amalgamation of the purer and nobler aspects of The Doctor who somehow came about somewhere between #1 and #2.
The main thing for me is making The Doctor feel like The Doctor again. I love Jodie Whittaker, but the scripts Chibnall wrote for her gave her absolutely nothing - no authority, waving the sonic about for every little thing, you'd have no idea she was the same character who has lived for hundreds of years. Compare Capaldi in Zygon Inversion or Heaven Sent to Whittaker.
I certainly found her a more convincing Doctor in the short time we spent with her. Though in fairness we've only seen her in 'key stories' so to speak, rather than say, Kerblam!
@@DarthNerdus1 Yeah, exactly. Within a few seconds, she showed she had the kind of gravitas that Jodie tragically lacks or never got the chance to show. Alas we only saw her too briefly. I would like the whole thing to be a lie, and the master brainwashed her into believing that crap with the Timeless Child actually existed. I don't care about the Doctor's backstory. Lets just leave it at that.
I left somewhere in the middle of Capaldi's era when DW left Netflix. Probably just going to pretend that Capaldi regenerated into Tennet if all else fails. To fix it, an alternative may be that the Renegade Doctor/ Ruth Doctor was another Master working with the Spy Master (I think I'm right on characters incarnations, like i said i didn't see chibnall's drivel). They conned the Doctor to gain something.
Something I will stand by at least until a real canon explanation is made is that the Timeless Child should, rather than being retconned entirely, should be explained as being the Other, the third founder of Time Lord civilization, as the Doctor is explained in some expanded media to have been the reincarnated form of the Other
It was such a stupid decision by Chibnall to annihilate Gallifrey when we'd only just got it back again, but yeah, at least in that scenario there'd a stronger purpose behind it.
As a lifelong fan as old as the show, the Timeless Child fixed a lot of problems with other canon. The regeneration limit was a problem. How the Doctor always got away from Gallifreyan justice. We get it, you didn't like a female Doctor.
Except we knew timelords could bestow more regenerations (5 doctors from memory) hence why Matt Smith could regenerate. The timeless Child story felt like it diminished William Hartnells Doctor. He had a life a granddaughter and wasn't the 'good guy' yet. Nice false equivalency though. Don't like story =/= not liking female doctor Thats like saying oh you didn't like the Time War arc I get it, you don't like a male Doctor.
Chis tried something intresting.... to allow the PTSD time-wared doctor era to end. this took a few layers off of the character, the one we all grew to love. they were meant to have finally allowed themselves to go on with their life. no longer questioning about the war and just accepting themselves as well "an idiot" - (deep waters). no longer with that being a driving force and strong motivator that we see from great episodes like the 50th, what now gives them a deeper motive? which left a hole... a Strange part of their part, we the audence had yet to learn. now the timeless child is basically there to fill that gap. a new redefining aspect of the doctor. it could have been supported more with well them having a group of freinds to be around. this idea was tried but exicuted poorly. they became stick figure yes men. whilst agrument and differing judgment should have been present a more intressting direction would have been well the nardol direction. a side character to support them. whilst sorta a minor severnt relationship, you can see how the supporting relationship like that but with a few people, could have caused in-character arguing and tardis team arguments and debates. it could have redirected the team to more of a for lack of better term traditional edcuational approch. "you really think its ok? well then *activates tardis, lets find out"..... This you can tell was a direction they could have gone in, the Episode rosa shows this. (though they should have deleated that side line and make it a fixed event they needed to be there for. ) The ideas were there, the ground work also. but it kept getting convoluted and suffered the same issue that StarTrek: voyger had... too much gargon, too wordy TLDR: Alot of their ideas were good and fantastic ideas. just badly played out. TBH i think Chris needed a person to bounce ideas off of and a person to tell them "no".
The companions are maybe the most important thing for me. It went down after Claras dead for me, since i really loved Clara, and Bill for me was already quite underwhelming. And then of course the 3 we had with Jodie, yeah none really left any impact on me. Hell, even Kylie Minogue, who only played in one special episode, is more memorable to me than these 3 after 3 seasons.
@@DarthNerdus1 I liked everything with Clara, would really like to know how she would have been with David Tennant. And her death for me was just the worst moment ever in Doctor Who, so heartbreaking 😥😥😭😭 I was also really confused when i read later more and more on the internet that so many people seem to hate her, can't understand that, for me she could have even played the next Doctor since, like i said, she was great with every Doctor (but so was also Rose) so you could give her maybe any companion and its great. But i think that was the problem many had with her that she was already sometime more Doctor than the Doctor himself 😄
40 seconds in and that's all that needs to be said for me. The last new episode of the show I watched WAS the Timeless Children, it is something that kills the series going forward for me, and unless I hear that it is written out or revamped, I will not watch anything new. Still have the previous half century of material to rewatch though, loving the blu ray sets of the classic seasons.
I think David's brief stint might do more than be a distraction. He might just help heal the bleeding wound and pave the way for the fifteenth doctor. But yes, the fifteenth doctor cannot just be a passive doctor that things happen to, the way Jodie Whitaker's doctor was.
Well recreating it would be fine, its basically a locked room story where characters 'true natures' surface. The fear is from mob mentality not so much the creature in Mrs. Silvestry.
I think that the timelords regeneration came from the vortex that's how River has it other wise how do you explain her regenerations because 1 way is that the doctor is her father some how or that the vortex is the source of regeneration. I hope that RTD does deal with the timeless child well. He isn't retconning it but I think he could make it work out. I think he would do better to make the Other be the doctor & use the looms or something that way he can weave the story of that into it that way he can not insult his friend but fix the story up by making it more organic to the doctor & adding to his mystery. Edit: I want to add that I do like some of Chibnall's episodes from the first series of his their are none but the second has the lone cyberman story which was good until they decided to just ruin his story after it in the 3rd part & the 2nd part is alright. In the flux series I liked the majority of it but I didn't like the angel one but the rest are pretty good. The specials are alright the worst being probably the sea devil thing.
I completely agree that The Timeless Child should go. I like Doctor Ruth a lot, but since I don't think they are bringing her anymore, The Doctor dismissing the story as an elaborated lie from The Master would suffice (if ever mentioned again). It should not be considered canon. I think the only thing Chibnall did good, was showing that the hybrid was a Cybermen-Time Lord hybrid standing over the ruins of Gallifrey. Jody was trying to act her best, but with the scripts they gave her, Chibnall set her up for failure. The introduction episode was a good first episode, but then my hopes vanish quickly. I can't believe for instance, that in the two most emotional episodes of her introductory series (Rosa and The Demos of the Punjab), instead of saving the day The Doctor was reduced to a simple witness of history, leaving the main performance to the music. I felt some of the stories that Chibnall wrote were specifically designed to annoy Doctor Who fans.
Doctor Who should consider something entirely different for Doctor Who, not unlike other franchises. It may be time to do what is done with other media, i.e. have past Doctors and Companions regularly reprising their roles, and not just anniversary specials, but use a multiverse approach. Also, why can't the Doctor visit past companions, especially fan favourites? I am looking forward to RTD's scripts, but a mix of single episodes with some multi-episode arks too. Also, please bring back past Masters. Some have been brilliant, like John Simms, Michelle Gomez and Derek Jacobi, although at 84, he may be a bit too old. Lastly, how about repairing the Tardis and its chameleon circuit? That could be fun, even if it only worked sometimes. But definitely consider another female Doctor and one who isn't British for once. I still love Doctor Who and have done since William Hartnell. Please don't let it die. Maybe even a crossover with the new owners' universes, such as Star Wars etc.
I do like some of these ideas. Definitely freshening up the show by bringing back an old Doctor once a year perhaps, that could be interesting. No integrated story, just a story from that Doctor's run. Can do the same to older Masters too. Not necessarily even a multiverse, it's just going back in time. The only issue with it is would it overshadow the contemporary Doctor? I wouldn't want this show anywhere near Star Wars (my other love) though, as that's a disaster too!
"The Timeless Children" (The worst episode ever) could have destroyed Doctor Who for good and resulted in its cancellation. I agree that Russell T. Davies must get rid of The Timeless Children.
Ok did expect this to just be another basing video but to be fair you did put your opinions across quite well. But lets just note that they are opinions. Ok, retconning the Timeless Child. The thing is Doctor Who doesn't need to do this. If anything RTD will likely just move on and so will new viewers. Expanded media will probably explore the idea at some point. Personally I'd have loved to see what RTD did with the concept but as I said he'll want to move on to doing his own thing much like Moffett and Chibnall did, while being respectful of what came before. Stories and characters. Here we can agree on some things. As much as I loved 13s era I was disappointed that there wasn't more development in both. It just felt at times that another final draft was needed to tighten things up. The finale of series 12 was the first time since mid series 6 where I couldn't wait to get to the next series. But sadly Flux, although I enjoyed it, didn't give us any more answers and seemingly swept it all under the carpet by the end. True covid had an effect on this as well as developments behind the scenes with series 13 getting cut back form first 10 episodes to 8 and then 6 again leading to a series that felt crammed, rushed and not properly tied up. Weather things might had been better with maybe a couple of normal series instead of Flux in that time frame we'll never know. The statement of the Ruth Doctor as a reminder of something we'd all rather forget. Again this is your opinion, and not something that can be said that we'd all rather forget. Also the opinion that none of Jodie's stories will be remembered. Demon of the Panjab for example is a fantastic story and beautifully shot (although granted that is my opinion) The Doctor. Having been a fan of the classic era I started watching modern Who from the first episode and while I liked the show in general I didn't really get hooked on it and to Eccleston until the Dalek episode. Yes both Tennant and Smith had me from their first story but with Capaldi it took until episode EIGHT before he became the Doctor for me. With hindsight I can see what they were trying to do with his Doctor and his development over his three series is the best development a Doctor has had it still made the original watch of series 8 difficult and it still remains my least favourite series of modern Who. I liked Jodie's Doctor right away. She's one of my favourite Doctors along side 5, 7 & 11 with parts of her character reminding me of parts of 5 & 11. And just one final note as you point to it in your video. Clara. Because yeah although not pointed out on screen it's likely some time as passed between Name and Day of the Doctor but she's goes from being a baby sitter to working school teacher out of the blue, and I'm not going to touch on the whole beginning of The Magician's apprentice. Sorry a little side rant there.
One thing that the timeless child gave us was a means of keeping the show going beyond a (second) set of regenerations. The biggest problem with modern who has become the series long story arc. Three things to fix Doctor Who would be 1) actual time and space travel, put that back into the TARDIS name. 2) companions who are from the future, past or other worlds. We need a Jaime, Zoe or Nyssa. 3) have the Doctor moving from one adventure to the next without any interludes on present day earth to pick up the companion. Where stories are told over multi-episodes with a cliff hanger. I enjoyed Jodies run, even if there were some hit and miss episodes. Her first series felt like the classic, with multi companions and no series long plot. The issues with modern Who aren't solely issues that have cropped up with Chibnall's run. Moffat's run needed the plot slowed down and I would say the new series seem unable to do a decent timelord storyline.
Hi, thanks for the comment. 😀 Personally I like a series story arc, it gives a series momentum and direction when it's well executed. I'd completely agree with you about the travel and companions though. I'd love to see more episodes set in the past, exploring history as very early Who did. Some extra focus on space travel would be very much appreciated. And it'd be so nice to get some modern companions that weren't from contemporary Earth! We don't need to keep popping back home every five minutes, let's keep exploring the endless sandbox we have!🙂
@@DarthNerdus1 I don't mind one, personally feel its been overused in the modern series, especially Moffat's run with the 11th Doctor. Good to hear someone else feels similar way on that. I read somewhere that the companion needs to be from the present day as to make it relatable for the viewer. I also read something on Screen Rant (I believe) saying we'd never get companions from the past or future, or other worlds as they'd need everything explained to them and that it takes up too much time. Which completely misses the point of having a companion from a different world or time, provide a different perspective and challenge our thinking. Besides, one of the reasons for the companion is so that the Doctor explains things, what he's thinking and what is happening. It's a Sherlock/Watson relationship at the very basic level for the Doctor and companion.
Agreed, the timeless child needs to be revealed to actually be False, as for the Ruth Doctor, it can be revealed that she actually came from a parallel Universe, that way she could possibly reappear in the future but not as the Doctor of the regular Whoniverse but of another timeline or Universe. The timeless child story has ruined the Doctors heritage and undermined his identity, it needs to go, and the sooner the better.
Finding a way to keep the Ruth Doctor in existence for potential future use would be good, because she was actually not bad in fairness. You could have an interesting storyline with her one day.
An impressive grasp of the series's developments, thank you. A female Dr can certainly work. I do hope that Dr Who continues, although the previous break allowed it to return to a multitude of excited people.
Thank you! I don't see why a female Doctor couldn't work in theory, Missy certainly did for the Master, but I think it'll be a while before they revisit the idea given the association with Chibnall's era.
I don't think The Master should return. Missy should have finished his story. It was a good satisfactory redeeming end for an otherwise increasingly pantomime villain. Replace The Master with an all new but intriguing and challenging returning threat.
Like the Daleks and the Cybermen, the Master has been around since the Third Doctor. The Master is the Moriarty to The Doctor's Sherlock, his equal. You can't get rid of him he's a Classic Who villain, he'll always find a way back.
I don't MIND the general idea of the Timeless Children. The execution wasn't great. The general idea could have been pulled off much better, though. Without making The Doctor a singular "chosen one", but maintaining that they had previous frogtten regenerations. Including The Fugitive Doctor.
One reason i think Jodi never got her footing is that, along with her, EVERYTHING changed: companions, Tardis interior, sonic, even opening theme & credits. That never happened before (except for actual reboots of 8 & 9), and i think it was too much, and left the audience too disconnected, putting the series in the hole before it even started. (That said, I think your variety of criticism is pretty darn accurate.)
I think you can definitely say it's a contributing factor, there's an element of it feeling like a totally new show. Matt Smith had a pretty similar situation, but he had the Eleventh Hour, and Whittaker never got anything close to that quality of writing.
I gave up on the chibnall era in the "Amazon" episode where the Doctor backs the giant faceless company exploiting the populace of a nearby planet for cheap labour.
