Today is all about primer testing with 125gr supersonic rounds in 300 AAC Blackout. UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RU-vid content policies. www.patreon.com/reloading
"That 41 primer is something else! It averaged 21,019 feet per second, the only thing close was CC1 400 at 2051 fps!" It must have had some kick to it!
It occurred to me as I was watching this video that this channel has become my go to for information. You do a Great job on these videos. I tried pulling up the patreon website, but for whatever reason it wouldn't fully load. Probably my phone and location. As soon as I get back to my PC I will definitely log on and support. Your videos have helped a newbie so much. Thanks and keep it up. Definitely have no problem supporting the content.
You're right that there are so many variables but a start at looking into it like you are is awesome! You do a great job interpreting the data and making sense of chaos haha. Very interested to see more man
Good information! In the future it would great to see a large rifle primer test as well. Truly enjoy your channel and appreciate the effort you put into it. Thanks
My guess is bump fire, no doubt to me. camera footage agrees based on the recoil. easy to do if you get in the groove with a light trigger finger. My Echo trigger in my 10.5" 300 blk will pretty much run itself after the first pull an release. great data even if tripod season is upon us. (sorry for your loss) I've only run subs across the chrony with that gun so i am pretty stoked to see what the supers do with all the primers. I think the 41s where a fluke but would be very interested if they truly do give an extra 100+/- fps. Thanks so much for all the vids you do.
I think the doubles are caused by bump firing, especially with the new leather bag. Those leather bags are supposed to allow the stock to recoil without grabbing the bag. Combine that with a light trigger with a short reset and it's easy to get a doubling. It's happened to me with two different rifles shot from the bench. I find holding the rifle tightly into my shoulder and holding the trigger back until recoil impulse is over help to avoid the problem.
Thanks for still sharing! Most would have scrapped this project. Keepin it real :-) On another note; ever test TAC (powder) in .223? Its been my standard powder in a 16" AR but I havent tested many others.
I returned my CMC trigger for warranty repair (after 2k rnds fired) because it started to fire 3 round bursts. I suspect the disconnector spring weakens over time/use.
Never a boring day! It would appear after many different components that the 300 Blackout is not a particularly accurate round relative to say the 223/5.56. Definitely good for it's designated use and also a solid 150 ish yard whitetail round.
I definitely don't agree with that. My 16" 300 Blackout was super accurate. Give me a 16" barrel from Ballistic Advantage or another very good barrel maker and I bet the accuracy would shock you.
Would of been cool of you could of been able to test Tula primers, but can't get this right now b/c of the sanctions. Loving these tests Johnny, thank you for all you do, have learned a lot from you and the rest of the reloading video channels!
Beautiful chaos so what did we learn? Johnny has a rigid finger the gun has a light trigger and the higher you go the looser you get. now on a more serious note I have never had good luck with Magnum primers . that's one reason why I use the 400 CCI they're more consistent you get a consistent shot with those primers if you look at your velocity charts you'll notice the CCI 400 primer is always in the middle it don't vary your speeds with whatever powder you're using
I experimented with N110 using cci41 and cci400 primers and had lower SDs with the cci41 primers. Tested it with the 110gr Vmax, 125gr SMK, and 110gr TAC-TX and all my tests showed that the CCI41 primers produced a lower SD and slightly smaller groups. Difference in group sizes were negligible so I don't think anything can be concluded from that. I was thinking that CCI 400 would be the way to go based on your testing but results were different for me. It makes me wander what variable caused us to have different test results. I guess it just goes to show that there are other variables that can affect results. Regardless, thanks for all the videos. I've really learned a lot from your channel.
Bet some / a lot of that velocity variation is due to that light trigger, which will have less hammer energy to the primer. Bet you'd see noticeably more consistent velocity w/ a standard milspec, or Geissele national match, that'll smack the primer much harder. I saw the same velocity weirdness when I swapped in a Timney 3 lb competition trigger, from a Geissele super dynamic combat trigger. Groups also opened up slightly with the lighter Timney trigger. Also, don't rule out a faulty trigger; if the disconnector is dragging on the hammer slightly as it's released, it'll effect hammer velocity / energy.
I've been having bump fire issues for the last month with my AR lower and 2.5# trigger. I'm on my second box of Fed AR Match primers but started happening about a month ago. It happens with both 5.56 and 300BLK uppers. I'm losing about 1 out of 5 rounds. I'm told the Fed primers are very soft so was planning to switch to CCI 41 primers. Ironically, I've been having great success with the Fed primers and so have you. I'm not sure if Win primers are soft also.
Hammer follow. I had a AK that did that with just the right amount of finger pressure and not quite a full trigger stroke. The trigger/sear geometry at just the right place can defeat the disconnector..
What I find in common on both charts is something I've seen replayed for decades consistently: low standard deviation does not translate to small groups and vice versa. Often, the tightest groups have the worst SD's. Seems like it shouldn't be that way but it is. Every now and then I'll stumble on a load that is both low SD and a consistently tight grouper but it doesn't seem to be the norm.
Rob, I can sure see how that would be important at that sorta range. Most of my interest over the years has been in handgun hunting and magnum revolvers and normal hunting distances. I'm only just now, in my 50's, starting to think about long range rifle shooting but haven't jumped into the pool yet:)
John Browning, I have tested this with multiple chronographs from low budget to professional grade with loads exhibiting this phenomena and the groups that are good with poor SD's are consistent from chronograph to chronograph. Also, there have been numerous tests of chronographs and their accuracy. They are accurate enough that you can trust the SD numbers without a doubt. Those who say otherwise are speculating and bloviating wanting to appear knowledgeable and are best simply ignored. Anyone who has any actual experience with them will realize how sensitive they are. You may get error readings from poor light or poor alignment of the instrument in the flight path, but when they read, it's accurate.
Hey JRB, get yourself a Trigger from Triggertech, the adjustable with either a curved or straight trigger and never look back. Best trigger I've used to date, even better than the Geissele triggers and half the cost, have over 25k rounds through my Triggertech with zero issues
If you increase your range to 200 yards, the variables become much more clearly defined. I have always said that your rifle isn't really tuned in until you find out what it looks like at 200 yards.
I'm looking into reloading and i find your channel helpful thank you for your knowledge, p.s 5.56 , 300 blk , 30/30 the 30/06 and 9mm are what i intend to load 4 so more on those would be great 😁
If your tigger isn't resetting I bet that was hammer follow. Next time the trigger doesn't reset inspect the primer on the chambered round. If there is a significant dent get a new trigger but if not you bump fired it.
Thanks, Oliver! I will have some merchandise coming soon (t-shirts and bench mats, probably). If you shop at Amazon, Natchez Shooters Supplies, or Brownells, come to a video description and use one of my affiliate links before you shop. You don't have to buy what I linked. As long as you got there with one of my links I will get a few cents on the dollar of whatever you buy. It adds up, especially on large purchases. I might also add a paypal option in the future.
As a non american, paypal could be a good option for me to support your channel. Any chance for 7,62x39 caliber tests ? I think it is the most underrated caliber about accuracy.
In the USA, it is usually sold, primarily to those who want very low cost shooting. We have other options for precision work. Thus there is not much market for quality projectiles, which means that people who care about accuracy tend to shoot other calibers. It's a negative feedback loop, and we probably don't have much more than 4-5 suitable projectiles that are made for precision. Someone in Norway or even Canada, like 314299 (A good youtube channel) might have a much better chance of giving what you want.
I got bump doubles after changing out my stock trigger for a 3.5# single stage. I discovered that I wasn't holding my stock against my should firmly enough. A firm grasp stopped the problem.
Nice info - but that bump fire and camera stuff was a bit of a test breaker though Looks like the two of us are putting out a lot of vids this month...I'm getting 'em out now because of vacation scehdules... testing all those primers is a real chore...but we can all benefit from your work...once you get it compiled OK...
Is the CCI 450 actually a hotter primer? I'm starting to wonder if it just has a harder shell to stop primers from blowing out on magnum loads. Edit: WTF, I found on CCI's web site: 450 Mag-Magnum primer for ball propellants. Safety Note: use Magnum primers only when specified in published load data. The 41's and 34's contain Magnum priming mix and should be treated as such. I'm so confused. I am seeing the same thing where the 41's work better with my Lapua CM brass than the 450.
Holy shit at all the info. I am just getting into reloading...this is another blackhole for my money. LOL. So many variables. Primers, Brass, Powder, Bullets...then the rifle...barrel length, calibers...what hat am I wearing...my brain is going to explode. Enjoy your vids.
He does have that Mosin and M39. That be a lot of fun b/c those are guns I shoot myself. I'd also love to see a 7.62x39 video with this similar scenario.
I'm still waiting to learn how I blow our faces off lol great video dude! Hope you do a shirt with that quote so I can wear it to work lol. Keep up the great work.
My AR Stoner barrel 300 BLK 16" group all under 1 inch with AR Stoner barrels. My Lil Gun likes AR Stoner Barrels. You had a very tough time. 2.070" COAL Speer TNT, LC, 18.2 Lil Gun, CCI 41. Lee Factory Crimp - Medium. Winchester primers giving under 1 inch @ 100yds. 2250fps average
I experimented with H110 and CCI Magnum Rifle Primers for about a year and finally decided to give up on it due to Copper Fouling issues. I'm currently playing with CFE BLACK and "standard" primers (CCI 400 and S&B Small Rifle) and liking it so far. As far as IMR 4227 goes, yeah it's been pretty consistent and is my fall back powder if I can't get CFE BLACK.
That's a lot of work. Thanks for that. Ever consider contacting powder/primer manufacturers for tips on starting points or maybe some things they can share with you. Doesn't seem fair that you are doing their R&D without getting at least some vendor cooperation. I hope they understand that people are buying their products because of your work on the channel. Thank you. I'm going to try to flip you some cash via Patreon.
it sounds like the timing is off on your disconnector ie there is either to much engagement or not enough engagement from your sear and the disconnector. you need to have a good gunsmith look at it. it could be something as dumb as you have a bad spring or crud making the spring not work properly also.
You should invest in a Codwell LED sled drift I have used it for a couple of years for doing testing it takes a lot of the human air out of testing rounds well worth the investment
I also had multiple failures like this from my CMC trigger. If you call them they will send you out a new one immediately and request that you return the old one in the package they provide. I did and sold the new one. Go with a Geissele and you won't want anything else.
I have three with several thousand rounds each. I like them a lot and they've been dependable, so it will take more than this one incident to sour my opinion. I haven't done any careful cleaning on any of them so it might be time to pop them all out and make sure they're not gunked up. I've always heard great things about Geissele, though!
Johnny's Reloading Bench I liked the CMC while I had it and was happy using the replacement but I found that the 2-stage ssa-e was easier to shoot accurately on paper. I like being able to take up the first stage and only have about a 1lb break on the 2nd. May be worth the try if you get the chance.
Hey jonny I'm about to leave and there's a bass pro on the way my dad is going to stop by what kind of primers should I get for my 9mm and what powder do you like the best?
Johnny's Reloading Bench I'm using a progressive press and have used titegroup for a while I ran out and was wondering what you liked if I have enough money I'll get a pound
Johnny's Reloading Bench well I got some hornady XTP Bullets (115 gr) a pound of tite group and 250 of berry's rn 115 grain bullets I was going to get some unique but wanted to try the XTP's and didn't have enough money soooooooo I don't know.
wesjwa andrews I've been reloading and shooting the titegroup 115gr. Berry's bullet. That's a good combo. They work well together. I've tried 4.0, 4.3, 4.5, and 4.8gr. In my gun the 4.0gr was the best, but they all shot good....
Norm Beauchamp I've got my Lee disk powder dispenser or whatever you call it set at 3.9-4.0 grains and loaded a whole 250 rounds the next morning it shoots perfect out of my G19.
Bottom line of your testing: It's not the primers. It's the powder. Double base ball powders just do not give as consistent velocity as single base extruded powder. BTW - I've been reloading and shooting different types of rifle and handgun cartridges for 30 years and experienced results similar to this test. SB powders usually give lower but more consistent velocity regardless of the type of primers. DB powder usually gives higher but very inconsistent velocity with standard primers but higher and less inconsistent velocity with magnum primers or military grade primers.
That is alright Johnny, the data was still good to see. I am impressed you are getting a video out a day. Planning on joining Patreon in the coming month.
