Redsox or Yankees, Stallone or Schwarzenegger, 308 Winchester or 6.5 Creedmoor? For two cartridges that are so similar, there shouldn't be so much debate right....right? #BergaraRifles #6.5CMvs308Win #308Winvs6.5CM
Yup! It kills. Not only that but the recoil is entirely tolerable and any place that will have ammo will have some. I have both. 6.5 is fine for white tails and pigs.
I want to add a .284 to my collection and that’s on the short list. I don’t see it in stores too much where I live though. 6.5 CM and PRC is more common. I see 7mm Rem Mag more often, but hear it hits the shoulder pretty hard. I don’t really need to make a 500 yard shot and it is overkill where I live. I can hit past 300 yards with .308, but like 6.5 CM’s recoil more. If it weren’t so darned expensive! I like the concept of 7mm-08. Sounds like it does a lot well. Love my .308. But don’t think I’d want to shoot 7mm mag as much as I shoot .308. (I have more than one.) You get past 2 boxes of .308 and I don’t notice while shooting because I love to shoot, but the next day my shoulder’s feeling it. I’ve been thinking about a .243 for that reason. I see that all the time and the ammo is easy to find, but it is all expensive hunting ammo not fmj and I don’t like wasting hunting ammo. I shoot .223 a lot.
I agree, out to 400 yds the 7-08 will do just as well if not better than the 6.5. And compared to the 308 it has better BC and less felt recoil. NOT that there is anything wrong with any of them.
Hands down better than both inside 400 yds (my ethical limit) Im thinking of a 308 bushgun and brass feeder to be converted to 7mm08 but trimming and resizing - and then uses same 7mm bullets as the 7mmPRC Very underrated and should have replaced the 5.56 instead of the .277 as a "do all" IMO
Great advice, and as a Hunter do not forget bigger hole better blood trails and usually faster blood loss. Most ethical shots on game occur inside 300 yards and my effective range in all field positions shooting with my sling are under 300 yards, so I choose .308.
Really appreciate the simple no nonsense approach, no pun intended, to this video. There are so many that try to break it down in so many ways but this gets right to the point. Awesome work!
6.5- small/ medium game and target round. Low recoil and requires a longer barrel 308- medium/large game and can run heavier bullets for more energy at 300 yards and in. Also can run a shorter barrel. They’re both good, pick which one fits your needs. They were designed for 2 different things.
Literally the best explanation between these two Giants that I have heard yet today! One is great here and the other is great there! Everyone wants to compare them both at the same time. Thank you.
They both have their uses. If you want to punch paper (or ring steel) at 1000+ yards, get the Creedmoor. If you hunt at 600 yards or less, get the 308.
Good points, BUT... 1. I just took my 2nd elk with my 6.5 cm, at 500 yards. 143 grain Hornady eldx performed flawlessly. The elk didn't seem to mind the lighter weight. 2. In Scandinavia they have been hunting moose with the 6.5 x 55 for over 100 years, and they continue to do so to the present day. It's all about shot placement and as good as the 308 is, and it's really really good, there's nothing it can kill that the 6.5 cm can't.
Excellent comparison and thank you for the info. I have been trying to consider which rifle I will get for hunting I was looking at the bolt action AXIS II Precision. Just wasn't sure which caliber yet. All my info talks very negatively about the .308 when comparing it to the 6.5 creedmoor. I like the .308 but everyone including some friends are saying 6.5 is better. This vid is an excellent comparison. I shot it a lot in the military. I still think it is a better round and it has proven itself as the (battle rifle caliber). Keep the videos coming and we appreciate your work.
If you have a shot at a mule deer at 500 yards, your best bet for an ethical kill isn't the 308. At 500 yards a 178gr ELDX is down to just 1,860 fps and may not expand. However, the 6.5 CM with a 143gr ELDX is still going 2,030 fps and will expand properly. As for power, the 308 is at 1,377 ft-lbs of energy and the 6.5 CM is at 1,308 ft-lbs. Both still have more than enough energy to make a good kill at that range. The only limiting factor is whether or not the bullet expands. Drop and drift for both rifles at that range is close enough it's not really an issue at that range. The 308 definitely has the advantage in power under 400 yards, but that's about the extent of it's useful hunting range for large game.
For light game, the 6.5 Creed is an excellent cartridge. For long range target-shooting, it is one of the best. For large or tough game, it is seriously outclassed by the .308. Compare the best Hornady hunting cartridge, 143 gn PH at 2700 fps and a BC of .623 with the 165 gn Nosler Accubond or Ballistic Tip at 2800 fps, with a BC of .475. At sea level, the .308 exceeds the 6.5 in energy out to 500 yards, retaining 1500 lb/ft (minimum for elk) out to 400, while the 6.5 drops off the scale after 350. Take that to 6000 feet, 45 degrees, 35% humidity and 10 mph crosswind and the .308 carries 1728 lb/ft. to 500 yards, vs 1569 for the 6.5, and the difference in drop is negligible. The 6.5 will drift a bit less, but it will not hit as hard at any range. It was designed by Hornady to be a long-range competition round with the minimum recoil and best ballistics. All this assumes a barrel length of 24", since that is what the factories test with.
Yes and those numbers say one thing. Real life, cow elk at 400 yards 4 shots with 6.5 to bring it down. bull elk at 360 yards one shot 308 150 gn. will never use the 6.5 for elk again
@@MrStaybrown Its an internet thing I think. I come to youtube to learn knowledge, and a lot of it seems to be people saying they “dropped an elk” at 500 yards with a creedmor. I don’t buy it, and its physics. A larger projectile, weighing more, going faster is gonna smack wild game a lot harder. The 6.5 is skinnier, lighter, and slower. They both work well for what they were intended for.
Are you better off getting a B14 HMR in 6.5 creedmoor or 308 IF you wanted to rebarrel the rifle later on and change calibers to try something new/get bored with the original caliber/etc.?? Is it good/acceptable normal wear and tear for the rifles receiver to change barrels/calibers every 6 months or so for the duration of the rifles life? I could see here you may want to work long range target matches in the Spring and Summer and be in 6.5 creedmoor and then go over to 308 in the same receiver for Fall and Winter hunting season.
@@123tl I like to head shot at 300m and it's the same cartridge just necked down infact you can put a 6.5 in a 308 and fire in and then reload it as 308. I keep my Tikka 308 for night shoots. But on foot and tracking the animals I yours my sako carbonlight
For me the difference is game size. Deer, 6.5 Creed. Elk, .308. *That said* would I hut elk (or moose) with a 6.5 Creed? Yes, yes I would...but I'd be mindful and pick my shots a bit more carefully.
The most meaningful measure for NRA High Power Competitor is MOA wind constant. The MOA constant of 6.5 Creedmoor is about 16-18 at 600 yards, while the .308 is about 12, meaning the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet is less deflected by wind. A 1 mph full value wind will displace 6.5 Creedmoor bullet about .375 MOA, or 2.25 inches at 600 yards. A 1 mph full value wind will displace .308 bullet about .5 MOA, or 3 inches. This contrast does not seem meaningful but since the X-Ring of the 600-yard target is only about 3 inches in diameter, more X-Ring hits are assured from 6.5 Creedmoor. And, at the High Master level it's X-Count that determines winners, since perfect scores are common. Now, considering the 6.5 Creedmoor can be shot from a detachable mag semi-auto having less recoil than .308 from similar platform, a shooter can better manage his 200- and 300-yard rapid fire positions. That's to say, there's time to dress up a sight picture, having greater resistance to recoil. At any rate, the only downside to the 6.5 Creedmoor compared to .308 is in context to barrel life and Marksmanship development. Shooters just getting into Long Range would be smart to compete with a .308 which necessitates learning how to appraise and counter wind.
In NRA High power utilizes Palma rules which negate 308 best bullets. The max grain bullets allowed by Palma are 156gr which takes away the 308's 168 and 175's.
Using CFE223 for both .308 and 6.5 CM, I developed loads and the results have me looking closer at .308. The .308 load with 155 grain bullet is averaging 2959fps, while my fastest 6.5CM 140gr bullet is averaging, 2781fps. The .308 rifle I tested does have a 2" longer barrel (24") but, I still wonder why the significant difference in speed. I should mention, the CFE223 in 6.5 CM has given me the highest fps out of numerous different powders tested. Scratching my head as I look at buying a Bergara and cant decide on Caliber. However, the 20" barrel on Bergara .308 just isnt long enough...
depends on what you need it for. I have a Bergara Wilderness Terrain in 308. The short fat barrel is deadly accurate. 2 inches don't matter for hunting. 308 is better for hunting that 6.5. anyways.
Josh, it’s internal ballistics versus external ballistics. Internally, inside the barrel, the 308 can generate a higher velocity using similar weight projectiles than the 6.5 because there’s more surface area on the back of a 308 for the expanding gas to push against. Aside from the fact that you can put a few extra grains of powder in the cartridge, That’s why you can run the 155 grain in 308 so fast while you struggle to get similar velocities from the 6.5 Creedmoor. But the same thing that makes the 308 faster at the muzzle is what makes it lose all that velocity a lot faster as well. I know a couple of old-timers who have shot more elk and moose with a 25-06 using 120 grain projectiles then you have probably ever even seen in your life. I say hunt with what you got and understand the characteristics of your chosen projectile and what it’s gonna do at different ranges and then make a decision about how far you are comfortable shooting at game. And enjoy hunting and don’t let everyone else bring you down because you choose to hunt with this rather than that.
For me it's the .308 Winchester hands down. I live in Virginia at the foot of the Southern Appalachians, if I can get a 500 yard shot I'll be doing good. Besides, the only one I'll be competing against is my son, myself and maybe a couple friends. I wanted to get a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor or .300 Win Mag until I found out the life of the barrels are only about 3000 - 4000 rounds. I changed my mind to the .308 with a barrel life of somewhere between 10,000 - 12,000 rounds before a barrel change.
The 6.5 cm is a great target round. Using the 6.5 cm for hunting is the same as the 6.5×55 using 140 gr. bullets. The 7.62x 51 is more flexible than the 6.5 because of all those heavier bullets to choose from.
gun owners love traditions. however, it's the wildcats that help the industry a lot more than those continually using grandpa's hand me down. tradition prevents innovation.
Bigger hole the more they leak. I own both. Trophy buck within a couple hundred yards give me the .308. Meat in the freezer less recoil give me the 6.5 Creedmoor. Big bucks will run even with good shot placement sometimes. I hate having to trail a deer in the woods and then have to retrieve it from a bad situation of trees, brush and the like. Prefer dead in their tracks on big bucks. But hey I love my .270 as well as either of the other two. You just can't have enough rifles even though it does get confusing which one to hunt with when you have so many. I get confused every year, but I make sure to harvest deer with all of them. One has to have a reason to have a new rifle, right? Not if you're not married but it does help to have a cover story when you have a wife to convince you need another one.
"147 is the biggest weight you can get because that's what Hornady offers..." Um.... #1... Hornady also has 153 grain A-Tips, #2... there are MORE ammo and bullet companies than just Hornady that produce 6.5mm bullets... greater than 147 grains in weight.... just saying.
@@bcjdwbiernfjherwfbowfib There is a 180. BTSniper. Berger makes 156 grain. Of course you would know it is not strictly bullet weight but rather energy if we are talking hunting which of course is a combination of velocity and bullet weight. Of course once again, it is stupid to shoot something THAT heavy to simply be subsonic... as there are better calibers for it. In either case, past 300 yards or so, 6.5 CM starts walking it very quickly....But if you are hunting only, there are other considerations.
@@bcjdwbiernfjherwfbowfib I never said too many use them... why? because it's stupid. =) (just like subsonic 308 vs a proper subsonic cartridge). With 6.5 CM I actually prefer 130s. My issue with this video is that it was rather poorly researched/planned and just rushed. =) 308 is a cool caliber and I have a few bolt guns in it, but as you pointed out in a different comment, there is a place for both. Industry data however suggests most gun owners have made their choice. (data I have from large gun companies, NSSF and retailers).
I live in northern Canada and use a 308 for everything. There has never been a wounded animal run away when I shot at it with the 308. I reload and use 155 to 168 bullets, Varget, IMR4895, BL-C2, and IMR4064. Magnum primers.
You basically just stated a very clear advantage of the 308. All the powders you just mentioned shoot good out of my bolt action and my AR-10. Creedmoor powders prefer 4350 slower powders which do not shoot well in gas guns.
Own both and unless you can make shots at 1000 yards or more consistently, I'll take .308 all day. Most 6.5 barrels burn out at 1500-2000 rounds vs 6000-10,000 with the. 308
@@jaxbeach09 I am a high master long range competitor. I used to shoot a 6.5/284. At 1000 yards I typically could hold about 1 to 2 MOA in prevailing wind. But after about 500 rounds it was very difficult to get 2 MOA cleans because of throat erosion. This was problematic for me since I shot about 50 rounds each weekend, meaning the expense of a new barrel about every 3 months. At any rate, I could not afford to replace barrels at 500 rounds so I switched to Service Rifle Division of long range competition which allows me to shoot my .223 match conditioned AR-15. With this rifle I can expect the barrel to last from about 1800 to 3000 rounds depending on whether it’s a button or cut rifled barrel. The cut rifled barrels last longer but typically are not as accurate as buttoned barrels. BTW, I also have put a lot of .308 rounds down range to 1000 yards and I can’t say how many rounds a 308 barrel can typically go. I have one 308 with a cut stainless barrel that has about 5000 rounds through it from 4 seasons of long range shooting and it’s still a half MOA gun with M118LR like it was from the beginning
I hunt the thick Woods of south Louisiana most shots under 100 yards in the brush. Have both calibers hoping they'll soon make a 65 cm in a round nose. Brush bullet. 308 has every bullet type under the sun . Wonderful comparison of calibers , unlike the bias" paid " people promoting 6.5cm. Your vid made me sub
It's funny how awesome the 308 Winchester was until the 6.5 creedmoor came out and now it's no good anymore so some people say The military loves the 308 for a good reason.
Nothing wrong with the 308 but outside of training it’s being replaced by 6.5. But that’s how things work. Newer designs with better technology usually do surpass older designs.
the military is looking to replace the .308 with 6.5 creed for designated marksman. more accurate, less recoil, able to engage and kill targets at 800 yards. thats the largest role the .308 has at this time. "its funny how awsome the .30-06 was until the .308 winchester came out" sounds pretty stupid when you apply that logic like our grandfathers, eh.
It's funny how awesome math and physics are until a guy on RU-vid comes up with a comment to dismiss them. The military is replacing .308 with 6.5 Creedmoor for a good reason.
Actually… 156gr bullet in a 6.5 Creedmoor S&B makes it Same bullet they use for the 6.5x55 Which I took a 425 lb Black bear with in a sporterized Swedish Mauser in 6.5X55 at 75 yards it punched a hole straight through its shoulders breaking both shoulders The 6.5 Creedmoor kills better than its weight .. as the 6.5x55 has taken polar bears , Moose & Kudu & Elk The 6.5 Creedmoor can do the same .. only better But .. I hunt with a 308win Just is a incredible round
Coming from high end air guns as my go to for shooting for years over my powder burners. Its interesting to see what is considered effective in terms of FPE on the side of powder burners. Where in the case of air guns those requirements are far different in terms of hunting. An air gun capable of producing 100fpe at the muzzle easily gets the job done at a good distance, with deer and even black bear. Sure its not near that of a firearm distance wise but still my point is that it would seem that the recommended FPE is drastically different between the two. Now dont go knocking air guns. They are very capable tools for hunting. Many, and I mean many states allow it. Even with the taking of the largest beasts that they have. I have recently started to bring out the firearms and purchased a 6.5 creed. Just a ramble I guess.
I don't see why there would be a battle between .308 and 6.5C, but the 6.5C should be continually trying to prove why it has a right to exist against the .260 Remington.
As a matter of fact I do own Bergara rifles in both 308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't see this as an either/or proposition. I like them both so I own them both. But I confess to being a little more partial to the 308 Win just because of the flexibility it affords.
@@mustangdemon87 Cheaper and more readily available ammunition, higher energy down range by virtue of being able to shoot heavier bullets. In all the metrics that are important to me the 308 Win beats the 6.5 Creedmor.
@@caseroj6020 funny it has been easier to find 6.5 creed in multiple southern an western states this past 3 years. As well as 6.5 has been cheaper per round. 308 180g vs 6.5 creed 172g didn't different that much ballistically. So what else you got? 😏
6.5 creed at 1000yards had 319 inches of drop. 308 had 372 inches at 1280fps while creedmoor held 1490fps. 6.5 creed won't come out of supersonic for atleast another 200 to 300 yards pushing effective range out to around 1300yards. Because USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) found that, as compared to flat-footed .308 (specifically M118LR, the military’s best long-range .308 load), 6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, and has at least 30% less recoil, they begin converting their .308 Win MK110A1 and Mk20 rifles to 6.5 CM in 2018.
@@mustangdemon87 Like I said I own both type of rifles and during the "great ammo shortage of 2020-21" I was able to find 308 Win ammo throughout the year. I was not able to find 6.5 Creedmor ammo until about 3 months ago. I did manage to score three cases of it a few months ago but I had to scramble and quickly place my orders. The inventory was all gone two hours later. As far as pricing goes unless it's Nosler ammunition loaded with an accubond the 308 Win ammo has been consistently cheaper for me than the 6.5 Creedmor. I attribute all these observations to the fact that too many people have bought into the 6.5 Creedmor-mania and caused a spike in demand. Yes it is a good round but it is not the best round.
I don't own a 6.5 rifle yet, so I can't speak to it, however I am reading that 6.5 eats barrels at more than twice the rate of a 308. Roughly 2500 rounds of 6.5 and you need a barrel swap vs 5000-6000 rounds for a 308. Has anyone experienced that?
Yeah, those number sound about right, but you have to remember there are many hunting cartridges which have much shorter barrel life than either of them. Even if you said it's just 2,000 rounds on the Creedmoor, not many hunters would fire that many rounds in their life. Competition shooters can fire more than this in a season, but they're not using .308. Actually most aren't even using the 6.5 anymore either, rather smaller 6mm rounds with even shorter barrel life.
The larger diameter makes the 308 much more deadly than the 6.5. I like the175 grain terminal ascent. The 6.5 CM is a target cartridge, OK for pronghorns.
Wife loves her 308, but we don’t shoot paper we shoot things In brushy cover and I don’t want them running off .. 308 for the heavier bullets or I’d be using my 243 Winchester ... no a hater of the Creedmoor, just not a fan
One of these has been used to kill everything on the face of the earth. Numerous times. The other has been used to hit steel at a mile. 65c is a cool little round. I bought my Bergara in 65c. But the 65 is extremely over-rated and just cannot do a lot of the things people claim EDIT: I forgot to mention that 175gr is getting damn heavy for a 308. Anything bigger and you need your head examined.
@@mr.nobody68 your point was that the 6.5 Creed can kill anything the 308 kills, as in "anything on Earth" AND hit steel at 1 mile? Not seeing how that is "extremely overrated".
I own both calibers. I have found that Berger bullets are fantastic for My applications. The best load I found for the 6.5 is their 156 grain EOL Hunter line of bullets. However my 150 say’s I load for .308 out shoot the 6.5 hands down.
I agree the 308 is a great cartridge but not all the facts in this video are correct One of the most important things is that the Creedmoor holds its energy at long distance much better than the 308 does after 400 yards the 6.5 was a better choice up close the 308 wins every time this is why the military is switching over We have a lot of cartridges to pick from there’s a lot of good ones out there we shouldn’t just say one is the greatest
308 all day. If you want longer range get a bigger cartridge like 300prc or even 6.5prc ect. Ammo price and availability. Plus a proven round and subsonic rounds is nice without having to buy a 300 blackout
I own both the 6.5 is a good round don’t get me wrong I w shot many deer with it through the neck body shots the deer tend to run away and I can’t find a blood trail they bleed more on inside of body cavity with the 6.5 but the 308 leave little more punch .
So 200 years ago the swedes were using 6.5's? Sweden is heavily forested the shooters are required to meet stringent marksmen skills for shots under 300 yards!!!
I have shot a 240 grain bullet for a 308 but it works better from the 7.62x54r . I think it's because my Mosin nagant has a longer barrel it's heavy too.
That's kind of out there on the edge of reality. It is true that once you get to the bullets that weigh more than 150 grains, That's where the 3006 six picks up and gives it a run for its money and leaves it in distant dust. The 300 Winchester magnum beat that by a couple of hundred yards, but then again when you're shooting it beyond 200 yards, you're shooting, you're not hunting. If you want to go hunting take a pistol or a bow, THATS HUNTING.
308 would be more effective inside 250 yards by transferring energy into the target. 6.5 could zip right through because it's moving too fast inside 250 yards. I think for hunting, 308 wins.
What I don't get is if the Creedmoor is so awesome, why wasn't the 6.5 swede or any of the .264s as popular. This is not a new idea. BYW, as a western elk hunter, I just don't think bullets under 165gr are a great idea, just me. I know probably thousands of elk are shot every year with less.
