For me it has been a wonderful experience. No one ever forced me to do anything and always encouraged me to read my Bible and have praying time. No one ever said anything about having "natural" friends. And even If it's true that we are encouraged to "date" when you are considering marriage to "date" with someone that has the same vision that you do... there's no rule. Even if you date someone from the world, even then we don't get involved. We are encouraged to read WL but no one forbids to read other things, actually if you read other things of respected authors you realizs how much Lee took from other people. Only if you really study other people you know this. Even God became man etc etc can be drawn from early church Father. Even more, now as a grown up in leadership we don't do the things you experienced here... Im not saying it didn't happen. Its a shame they made you feel like that....
What you're describing is nothing like my experience at all. To each one of your points, I was single when I starting meeting with this church and I am now engaged to be married to someone I met outside of the church; the church is loving and supportive and excited for me as they have been since I started dating him. - I have never heard the term "natural friends," everyone in the church has friends who are not in the church as do I; they just encourage me to love them with the love of Christ. - I LOVE that our church reads the same material so that when we meet its not just some pastor on a stage preaching at us but instead it's everyone sharing what Christ has done for them during the week. The readings are just to facilitate that. We are literally all on the same page, a unified body of believers and not stray sheep. It is by no means expected of a member to read it and I have shared many times at the Sunday meetings things from outside of the morning revival and it has never been an issue. - It is categorically not true that everyone is expected to go to the full time training; in fact, some are specifically encouraged not to go based on their financial situations, work, family, etc. It's really only for people who really want to take a break from the world to just focus on Christ. Everyone I know who has gone speaks highly of it. - About full timers being poor or tricked into it... I live with a married couple; the husband is a retired speech pathologist and works as a full-timer and the wife is retired. We live comfortably in Del Mar, California; we are doing just fine. If someone decides to give up their career to serve in the church, isn't that a testament to how rich and full the life of a servant is? Isn't that emblematic of the life Christ called us to live? This church has always made me feel free to come and go as I please. I have never, not once, ever felt any kind of pressure to accept invitations to go to meetings, let alone join the full time training, let alone leave my career to serve full-time. - To the point about only being able to read Watchman Nee or Witness Lee, that is also false. I have even said there are things I disagree with about Nee and Lee and I was met with total respect and acceptance. This group is not beyond reproach; they are reasonable, and they never treated me differently after I voiced my opinion. - It's very disingenuous to say that they add to the Bible or that they claim the recovery version is the only acceptable one. Again, I read from my NIV or NKJV version around them with no issue and there are many Bibles that include footnotes with explanations; it's helpful! That is not adding to the Bible, it is expounding on it. I have compared versions and noticed little differences. - The thing about courting... it seems to me that you were hurt by your experience and I'm sorry for that. But this church has its primary focus on living as the Bible instructs us to live. You keep referring to the world's standards as if that is a good thing. If you're a Christian, you should clearly be able to recognize how degraded things are, especially when it comes to marriage and relationships. The reason they want the courting/dating period to be private (not secretive) is in case you guys don't work out and want to break up. That way neither one of you are embarrassed and you can continue on in the church as normal. That's really sweet to me. Again, I didn't do it like that, I had a boyfriend after I met with this group for a few months and we were publicly dating and they had nothing but joy for me. But honestly keeping it private keeps it precious. We live in a society that needs to post and promote everything about themselves and It's really refreshing to share something so sweet with only people who I know have my best interest at heart. - What you're saying about people's doctors/lawyers/etc. all being in the group... what? Everyone is in your business? That is not the case at all; in fact, I have had the opposite experience where saints have told me to be careful about oversharing at meetings to protect myself and not open the opportunity for gossip or misunderstanding: only share what the Spirit leads me to share. If that's true in conversations, how much more so in my health/finances/etc. - And to your point about being lovebombed and then abandoned... that is really sad you've become so hard-hearted to see it that way. My church is full of families who did not do the full time training and are still loved and cared for. Yes, we feed each other. The Bible tells us to. Yes, we welcome people into our homes for meals and Bible study. The Bible tells us to. Yes, we try to make sure people who are alone know that they aren't alone and that Christ loves them. The Bible tells us to. - And to your last point about the flesh/self: if you don't understand that the Bible tells you that your flesh is where Satan has dominion in you then you won't understand why you need to pick up your cross and follow Christ. They heavily emphasize that who we are should reflect Jesus and that is what the Bible says. If that isn't attractive to you then don't be a Christian. that is the life Jesus called us to live. "It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in me." That's scripture; not Watchman Nee or Witness Lee. Your self is your ego, the root of pride, it has no place in the Kingdom of God. Christ told you to deny yourself, not Nee or Lee, they just agree with the Bible.
Just some questions for you, since you’ve clearly put a lot of time and effort into commenting on my video. Have you tried convincing your fiancée to be in the group? Or have you spoken to other members in private about how you wish he could “see the truth”? Or have you accepted him and his beliefs as he is and you don’t care if he ever joins? How would you feel if he saw this video? If you’ve tried to make him come into the group, or have schemed with other “saints” about how to get him to “see”, then you MAY be in a cult. Just sayin 🤷🏻♀️
@@Standing4TheTruth it seems to me like you have a strict mental dichotomy that says someone is either “in the group” or “not in the group” and that isn’t really reflective of the experience I have. As you know there are many meetings throughout the week, not just on Sundays, and I have invited my fiancée to come along to the ones that work with my schedule for that week; sometimes he says yes, sometimes no, and either way is always fine! He is a very independent person and doesn’t like going along with anything just because everyone else is doing it so it would be impossible to pressure him even if I wanted to. He chooses to come or stay home as he wants to and there’s no problem. He has even gone by himself without me before. When he does come, he has told me he thinks the saints are cool people and he enjoys what we read. We have even talked about some of the points that Nee/Lee makes that we don’t agree with but that has never made us not want to continue meeting with the saints in the future. He and I are both free to come and go as we please. I’m really sorry that it doesn’t seem to have been that way for you. That is the love of God: to love unconditionally, whether I come to a meeting or not. And I’m curious, you have said repeatedly the phrase “see the truth” or “see…” can you explicitly state what you think the church is trying to get people to see, other than the love of God and His intention for our lives as the church? I’m also wondering if you’ve since left the faith or if you’re still a believer. I hope your bad experience with that locality hasn’t turned you away from the love of Jesus which makes us sisters in Him. Just to share a little about myself, I was a hardcore atheist most of my life, I hated God and religious people. I had a dynamic encounter with Jesus three years ago and I privately followed Him for about a year or two because I didn’t trust church people. I found a church in my hometown (not LSM) that I was comfortable in but I was always at arms length because of my trust issues with churches and organized religion. I had a very special relationship with Jesus that I didn’t want tainted by religion. Then I moved to San Diego to attend university and after searching for community, I came across the LSM campus group and the biggest thing I felt from them was total freedom and total love. Anytime I said no to an event or Bible study the love was the same as when I said yes. It took a while before I settled into any kind of routine with them and I’ve really enjoyed this community more than the traditional church style. I’m not at all trying to say what you experienced isn’t real and it sounds like it really disturbed your peace which breaks my heart. I’m sorry sister. I just worry that the way you gave your testimony is absolutist and not reflective of the heart of this body of believers, and it could lead lost sheep astray. I am grateful to God every day that I wandered into this flock and I hope others find the treasure I found here. But ultimately God is the Shepherd and He will lead others where they are meant to be; that’s how the saints in my locality feel, that’s why they don’t care whether someone comes to the Lord’s table or a home meeting, they just want people built up in Christ.
@@la_palomita I know you may think I’m the only one who’s experienced this.. but you may want to read the hundreds of comments on these videos of people that agree with what I’m saying. That speaks volumes.
@@Love_Cruelty your comment is really ignorant and assumptive; you have no idea how familiar I am with the satanic or the false religiosity of doctrine. I have tasted and seen what is of God and what is not, and as a sister or brother in Christ your words should be for the building up of those who hear them. Your condescension is ungodly and I pray you turn to the Lord for purification. All saints are sinners, you should know that well. We are always in a constant battle between putting forth God or putting forth Satan. Don’t think that just because you gave your life to Christ it doesn’t mean you can’t be used by Satan. He came to kill, steal and destroy; Christ came to have life and have it more abundantly. Your words reek of death. God bless you and keep you, and I mean that.
Really? You've met sinners like, Joseph's brothers, or Job's friends, or Laban, Jacob's father-in-law, or Saul, King David's predecessor, or Amnon, Tamar's brother, or in Queen Esther's situation, or Lot, struggling at the border of Sodom, etc.?
37 years in the church life, and I am too a church kid. I have been in every situation that you mentioned in your video but i never felt or experienced you said in the video. It sounds like all is your personal feeling in that you are very negative toward the church life, which saddens me because I still want everyone that I know that I grew up with who no longer meet find peace and grace in their journey as a christian but please just know there are many many church kids like me who are truly grateful of the church life they grew up with.
Mi padre fue "hermano responsable" de esa secta y por 10 años yo nada quise saber de Dios a causa de la vida que llevábamos, mi hermano terminó volviéndose ateo.
The cultish practices may not have affected your life in ways that you’re able to see right now, and perhaps you escaped suffering. Still, when hundreds and thousands of people talk about the harmful practices and how they have been hurt by them it’s good to look into what those practices are. We know how to identify problematic groups. Look up the BITE model, Steve Hassan. The practices fall under “destructive undue influence.” It’s a big deal bc these practices have proven to be harmful in all high-control groups. I’m glad you haven’t had negative experiences…but the pee is in the pool even if you can’t see it. People have gotten sick and if anyone feels sad, it’s not just you. We are saying this bc life is on the other side of that control. I’ve talked to so many people like you, and many eventually saw. What are you afraid of? Being poisoned? Who told you to be afraid? Why would they use fear to control you? Shouldn’t truth be able to stand up to scrutiny? Yes or no? Also, if you have kids you’re raising in this group- chances are high they will confront you about this one day. We know what makes a group a cult or high control group- it’s not beliefs. It’s the practices. Don’t want to be in a group that’s labeled high-control/cult? Then demand the unhealthy practices stop. Except you can’t, can you? You can make zero changes bc it’s a high control group. There is a systemic and strategic plan they’re living. They won’t change- even when cult experts list out cult criteria. What does that tell you?
I've watched your video and I've read all the comments... I've been in the Lord's recovery since I was 18 years old shortly after I came to the Lord. The church life is the miniature new Jerusalem and it is what the Lord Jesus desires to have as His bride. As the bride of Christ we must reject all things that's not of Christ and fully devoted to Him as our Husband/Head of the church. The local churches do not shut it's door to unbelievers nor do they shun believers from other denominations. We hope that the Lord will recover more dear ones into His recovery. So many truths has been lost and the proper church life is non existent. We don't care for how small our numbers are in our localities. We only care for the Lord's heart desire. Instead of speaking against the local churches which you don't feel comfortable being a part of because it exposes you and your natural self. Speak against the false preachers and the prosperity gospel preachers who call themselves gods and deceive so many dear ones who genuinely want to be in the proper church life. I'm now 32 years old, a husband and father of 2 children. Still I consider the church my first home because the Lord heart's desires comes first in my household. He has been faithful in His mercy with much grace. The Lord's preferences are my family's preferences. You cannot bring your own natural/fleshy preferences into the body/church of Christ. This is why we have divisions in Christianity which causes different denominations to arise. A great shame indeed. There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. May the Father fully recover His people into His Son, that we may all be mingled with Him, He in us and us in Him. Hating the world and everything in it as we love Him alone while eagerly awaiting His return. The bride say, "come Lord Jesus, come!" Amen!
@SavageFrnd_LoveCruel When I exercise my spirit Christ is the head, The King. But when I'm in the flesh I'm the head. This has been my experience and I'm in need of much grace. My hope is to eventually gain Christ that He may have the preeminence in all aspects and decisions for both myself and my household. That He will remain King and have absolute authority!
@@dontqwit I used to attend LSM services. I read your entire comment, my friend. Literally everything you said is typical of someone wholly immersed within their sub-culture. It's probably quite useless picking apart your comment, so I'll just say I am much happier having left LSM, now loving Christ in "degraded Christianity" and I never regret having left the Recovery.
You forgot "Eating, drinking, breathing Jesus", and "God's economy" and calling each other "saints", whom they "mingle" with, a.k.a the "unified, coordinated all-incorporate body". They are almost secretive in nature -their services are in "meeting halls" (rather than a church building). Our "locality" would meet in a totally unmarked hall. No one outside the church would know it is there unless they knew one of the members. I got saved and baptised in their church in my first year of university. I was raised in what they would call "degraded Christianity" and when I first got into their organisation, I felt very much inferior, having had friends who are not in the "Lord's Recovery". I do genuinely believe many (or most) are genuine Christians who will go to heaven, but very much of what they teach is quite bizarre. I can't hate them because they did lead me to the Lord. I started to fall out of the church because I couldn't handle how Asian they are - literally 95% of our "locality" are asians who moved here; i.e. it's an entirely imported church. There were too many cultural imbalances, as a "westerner" in my own country. I'm much happier attending a usual church, outside of LSM. I believe there are real and fake Christians in any church, including LSM, only God is the Righteous Judge. I love the Lord more now, and feel more free ever since I left their organisation. Also I love celebrating Christmas and Easter, and I am not worshipping Satan when I do it.
All I ask of you. Please read your Bible brother. Keep seeking Jesus. Because He is coming brother. Stop trying to please your will. God is Love. The more Love we get. The more His body will be One. We serve the same God. JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR, PASTOR AND KING. He will bring Us to this Reality one day. There's only One Church in the Universe.
They say "OH, we believe all Christians are one body". Then you ask, "Why do not call Lutherans, Catholics, Mennonites or Baptists saints". They tell you "oh, they're in religion". It's one big mind game. It took me like half a year to get a straight answer on the name of the church. My wife joined and I barely knew what they believed. They were NOT at all forthcoming with any of their beliefs. I had to play detective.
@user-op7uc6jb9k "in religion" a.k.a. "fallen Christianity". I'd heard one of them who was raised as a "church kid" genuinely believe that she has "no religion". Does she know that Christianity IS a religion? One of the most annoying/frustrating things about then is their entirely unique catchphrases and lingo as I'd listed in my original comment.
My parents moved me across the country to California for the Local Church when I was little. We left family behind, I only saw my grandparents a few more times after that, because the church was now our family. I was loved by the saints, but began feeling unsettled when I was in high school. I tried to talk to my mom about it but she told me that all other churches were just "religion" and that we were in the true church. Because of my mom's statement, I almost didn't go with a friend who invited me to her church when we were in college. It was non-denominational and I truly heard the gospel for the first time and received Jesus as my savior. I also began studying my BIBLE and left the teachings of Witness Lee behind. My mom would make snide comments about the teaching pastors and the music at my church, stating that she was "entertained". The thing that bothers me the most is the hypocritical language used to define the way they do things. My mom would poo-poo me for going to bible study or talking about what our pastors shared as they taught through the book of Hebrews. She would say pastors weren't proper yet that is EXACTLY what Witness Lee is to them...they only listen to HIM. I also strongly disagree with the false teaching on 2 different levels of Christians...you are either a Christian or you are not. The overcomer doctrine is FALSE and diminishes what Jesus did on the cross for believers. He did not partially save us so that some of us could sit at the table while others be cast out into darkness for 1,000 years. My parents are still in the church, but none of my siblings are. All of the little saints I grew up with in Children's Meeting are not in the church as well. Again, I was never mistreated and I was loved by the saints, but I do thank Jesus that he delivered me from the ELITE Lord's Recovery.
I so relate to this!! thank you for sharing! glad to know that other ex-members have heard the true gospel and still love the Lord. 4 out of 5 of my peers that I was baptized with have left the local church. Although we are in a non-denominational church now my mom still holds some of the teachings like the overcomers, calling on the Lord, not following pastors etc; even after we were shunned lol. And how hypocritical to say that they don't have pastors or presbyteries when there is a clear hierarchy. A lot of the feared-based doctrines always seemed like salvation through works which is a false doctrine. I remember a leader of the church that was leading the Friday meeting for families/children told us to not study the bible "We don't study the bible like denominations". "we are not religious" but have set practices and religious teachings. So many contradictions.
The Lords Recovery is the One Unique Church in the whole Universe, its the UNITY of all the people and nations in all languages spoken wd translation is the Annointing of the Holy Spirit wdin the human spirit of man, the conscience. Thats y u can feel the Holy Spirit presence when the brothers n sisters pray together in one accord. Those who turn back frm the Lords Recovery are NOT THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD, BUT FALSE PEOPLE and Gentile unbeliever. There are only two kinds of people the BELIEVER AND UNBELIEVER. Four (4) kinds of Life, plant life, animal life, human life, the last is God’s LIFE WC IS ETERNAL N EVRLASTING, the ZOE LIFE. If a person is not regenerated frm the Life of Spirit of God in Jesus, he will remain in his human life only but to death, soul will go to hell. Bcos those who had been born again and regenerated has the life of God,” John 3:3-5 Truly Truly i say to you unless a man be born anew or be born again of the Spirit of God he cannot see and cannot enter the Kingdom of God. And unless he was baptized in water wc signify his old nature to be buried in water by immersion he cannot experience the washing of the water and cleansing of it by the Blood of Jesus Christ who died for our sins. Amen.. contact me if u need to know something. And pastor means to function and not a title, but not to be the head in the Church, there is only ONE HEAD JESUSCHRIST. All the saints who believe can prophesy one by one for the building up of the Body of Christ. Many members but ONE BODY, The Church, Christ is the HEAD. Thats the Local Church, One Church in ONE CITY, like the 7 Churches in the Book of Revelation. Any further question im in the Church in Torrance, Lomita, Narbonne Ave.
I relate a lot. My parents are into this 30 years since, more or less, so I grew up in that place. I sensed something funny around there, so I never was into that. Now, by personal research, I decided to become catholic and soon will be baptized. God bless you.
@@urselmein wasn’t your baptism trinitarian? Catholic Church recognizes baptisms from other faiths as long as it was trinitarian (In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). I would like to ask you what led you to Catholicism? I know the Local Church is sooooo antiCatholic so got me curious. Thank you 😊
no sigo a witnees lee pero te digo q muchisimos pastores dan asco y eso nadie me lo puede negar se creen las eminencias de las congregaciones pero lo siento todos somos iguales
I can testify before the Lord that in the 34 years of church life in different locations and different countries I have enjoyed the riches of God outside of religion like nowhere else. There my children have grown and my marriage has been kept.
En ese lugar puedes estar bien si es que no vienes de familias complicadas, ya que su ayuda es bastante limitada para temas de drogadicción o de adulterio. Mueren de cáncer o de enfermedades incurables con gran facilidad porque no están capacitados para lidiar con las tinieblas. Lo veo más como un club social y no como el Cuerpo de Cristo en la tierra.
That’s good for you, I believe you. Are you willing to address the abuses of power that have hurt so many? Do you want the elders to make amends? Or do you turn a blind eye out of fear? Think about it.
That is beautiful. I am an ex Mormon and I have heard the same exact thing from so many members in the LDS Church. I noticed you did not mention the gospel but rather the firm community you feel it gave you.
@@heatherprock8205please, never go there. You'll be love-bombed. They are also cult-ish and are not really interesting in you as a person, but you as a potential member. I grew up there and stayed for over 20 years. I recommend mormon stories (podcast), it has opened my eyes, since both this group and LDS use the same cultish tactics.
Ive been in the church life for 25 years and these "rules" have never been bestowed upon anyone. The full time training is something you choose to do, no one forces you. Also the ones that serve its because they choose to. Nothing in the church life is forced unlike religion. Im sorry you spent so many years and saw nothing.
What church did you belong to? you can marry outside the church??you don't have to go to the full time training??I have lots if natural friends..morning revival it's good to touch the word in the morning..and people choose to give up careers for the church life..what's wrong with that? You sound very miserable..hopefully you will find what ever your looking for..we have a merciful God...
After having been out of this church for a couple of years now, I highly encourage you: DO NOT allow anyone you know to be drawn into this church. What I've seen from my dad and the problems the Recovery has created for my family, I am sure without a doubt that this is not only a cult, but I would say it's a cult governed by the supernatural. Everything that comes at you to keep you down and keep you from leaving is all in your head, there is no physical problems that keep you from leaving. This church doesn't need people with guns to keep you in the church, because the demons that oppress people inside the Recovery are more than enough to conquer anyone who is in that religion who has given up God in order to "find him." The Recovery is the literal representation of what a wolf in sheep's clothing looks like. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 describes what I mean by supernatural if you want to do some research on it :)
You have mentioned about not being able to have your own identity, have friends? which don’t exist in my experience. I never experienced pressure to go to training, it’s an option to those who would like to know the Lord more. The church life is a group who love the Lord, with no expectations of you. Footnotes are clearly not taken as the Word of God, and not all use the recovery version. You are no less a believer if you do not meet in the Church life.
Well i will just quote a line of a hynn to prove you wrong: "not analyzing or criticizing". Those are constant words they repeat to you: take the cross and deny yourself, aka exerrcice your spirit. You are not allowed to express any thought bc you arr being told "borther, turn to your spirit", "exercice your spirit". Also the constant reapeating "proclaiming", "chanting" is well known brainwashing strategy exerced by cultish groups.
Our family was in it for 4 years and after leaving and finding an actually good Christian church, I realized how much they always say how good God is, but there is no application. They never take responsibility for having a good relationship with God, but expect God to change them by himself.
I’m thinking about honestly, maybe making a ministry to go into the Recovery and trying to show people where it goes wrong. The Recovery is nothing but a bunch of man’s teaching, and while it shares some aspects with Christianity, it lacks the power of God.
Also my Dad is still in it, and the way he’s trying to get us back into the Recovery proves it’s a cult. He’s so abusive mentally and emotionally, I never knew I’d face so much persecution for my faith from someone close to me. Jesus said to love first, to show and be a light to others, but instead all I’ve seen is wrath and anger. I don’t care who you are, there is no excuse for that if your supposed to be a Christian.
It also shows how the Recovery is governed by a darker power 100%. How else could do many people be deceived by all their lies?! Also based on experience with my Dad he never has joy or peace or true happiness. The fruits of the Spirit will show up in your life if your actually having a good relationship with God. Also I just graduated from highschool. If Im barely an adult and I can see how the Recovery does not line up with the Bible, shouldn’t that prove that the Recovery is not right?
Exacto, por eso será que mis padres quienes antes eran cristianos pentecostales dejaron de lado la comunión con Dios y solo se limitaban a leer los libros que tienen la living stream y el árvoŕe da vida. La concupiscencia ingresó a mi casa, mi padre que era un "hermano responsable" fue muy violento con nosotros sus hijos, mi madre igual. Mi mamá fue más allá y estuvo con varios hombres en adulterio. La única que se quedó en esa secta es mi mamá, mi papá salió antes de partir con el Señor, mi hermano por el momento se volvió ateo, yo me acerqué a Dios escuchando videos en youtube acerca de pastores cristianos que están en otro nivel. He avanzado bastabte desde que salí de ese lugar, mi relación con Dios es más cercana, lo he experimentado como mi Médico, Proveedor, mi Alegría. Ahora Cristo es todo para mí.
I challenge anyone in TLR to read “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan….then try to prove to us on here that the Lords Recovery is not a cult. If you make a claim that it’s not a cult, support your argument! There are multiple checklists and models to evaluate groups. It doesn’t matter what your experience is. Some people love the structure of high-control groups. It doesn’t mean they are not in a cult.
I Cor 2:6-10 But we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom wc has been hidden, wc God predestined b4 the ages of our glory, wc none of the rulers of this age have known, for if they have known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; “ But as it is written, “ Things wc eye has not seen and ear has not heard and wc has not come up in man’s heart, things wc God has prepared for those who love Him.” But to us God had revealed them tru the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches all things even the depths of God.
@@priscilamoraleda3851this verse is speaking of those who have been born again. Clear and not confusing or complex. Eyes are only opened when reborn, not through anything of the flesh.
@@Love_Cruelty do you agree with this? “This is from Book 7 in Elders Training The Lord seemingly tolerated Judas because as the Son, the Lord managed and administered God's household according to outward rule. This is the reason He never exposed Judas's stealing. If we judged this according to our knowledge, we would call this a political, not a Christian, move. A man in the world becomes wise and experienced when he reaches fifty; he no longer does anything foolish. He becomes shrewd and cunning. He never falls prey to anything. But this is the way of the world. No Christian should become shrewd and cunning through the knowledge he has gained of other men. If we deal with the brothers and sisters according to knowledge, we can spare ourselves many crosses and headaches by relying on our shrewdness. Today our knowledge about the brothers and sisters is limited. After a few years, this knowledge will increase. Then we will know the brothers as soon as we talk with them, and it will be hard for us to love them. Yet this should not happen among us. If we deal with the brothers according to knowledge, we will become shrewd and cunning. This is not growth, but degradation.” So when abuse happens, play dumb. When people are being hurt, play dumb. Don’t have real relationships with people, only superficial ones. Do you really think God wants people to act this way??
I’m new to Church life, over a year. I came out of denominations for last 20 years. I’ve experienced real Church life and experience Christ at localities. Word of God was revealed so much I got closer to Lord . I’ve not loved Lord back in denomination but when my eyes open I start to love Him. There might be some little rules which I don’t pay attention. Jesus Christ is Lord!
What you have experienced is called love-bombing and brainwashing. If some day you happen to leave, no one will care, bc their only interest in people is in making them a part of the organization. Mark my words.
I remember what you mean about the lovebombing. That was true for me, too. I made a few friends, but for the most part, people stopped caring about me after I left. I was never that serious about being part of the group anyway.
Are you in Austin Texas? My daughter got involved with this group last fall ‘22 as a freshman in college and we can’t seem to get her out of it. She has a boyfriend in this group that has made it more difficult. We need help! 🙏🙏🙏
My son was saved in this church.At 1st I was worried thinking that I had lost himbutctoday I am so grateful to this church for who they are.There is no forcing anyone to do anything that they don't like to do whether to work in the church or to get a job.We believe in not correcting anyone but to be led by the Spirit to come to a decision.I have never seen any corruption or adultery as I see in a lot of churches.There are no rules to say do this or that.Since when is it wrong to love and to eat together.Callingceach other saints is very biblical.What I think happens is that people see Asian people so they assume that it's an Asian church but no it's the church of God.I found these people to be loving.The matter is one can go to a church where they feel peace and somewhere where people are not wanting to enrich themselves .There is no hierarchy here.We don't uplift anyone and we certainly dot uplift witness Lee or watchman Nee and we consider them as brothers in the church.I see absolutely nothing that they do wrong.Criticising other churches is no encouraged in this church although some people may do this.
You need help to do what exacly?.You just want him to attend your church is that it?You want to control a relationship between him and God!Is he an adult or not.My son did not marry someone from the church and I haven't heard about this rule!It's common sense that shared values are good for marriage so if a person would marry inside the church that's okay.Inorder to understand this church you really need to know what it's about based on your experience over a period of time.These people are just really normal and they eat the word a lot more than other churches that I have been to. but is that a crime!Are we not supposed to come to the full knowledge of God and don't we all need to arrive here!The recovery is a continuation of the work of recovery of the truth that has been lost over the ages.It isn't to give you a different gospel.I encourage young people to choose wisely and I sincerely believe in the honesty and humble way that the brothers hold themselves.May the Lord 's shining continue to shine brightly in this church unto the lord's coming back!There are many many churches who are absolutely fallen I know and also many unsaved people.My desire is that all of us who are saved and have a heart for the Lord would go out to these dear ones to preach the gospel in the way we live and also speak thextruth to a hungry world than criticising each other.Prayers your way my dear parents who are concerned.Worry more about your child going to do drugs and alcohol than one who loves the Lord and chooses where to fellowship.
After grabbing my logos bible software, my orthodox study bible as well as the recovery version I was surprised to see the doctrine practically the same on key issues. They all (orthodox as well as lee) make a distinction between body and flesh. The body comprised of 'Spirit, soul and skin' all participate in the redemption of Christ. Flesh is used as an entity, but he isn't the only one who makes that doctrinal distinction. The church of the East as well as Dakes does the same thing. My question is are those who leave trying to find a reason to leave a movement or a reason the leave Jesus Christ? In the last three years a massive falling away has occurred, statistically the numbers of evangelical Christians have fallen over 30 percent. I am even seeing non cult groups being told they are cults. Now your a cult if your not pro BLM/Palistine/LGBTQ affirming and everything else. My question is how many people since leaving the group are still fervently on fire for God and doing the first works? After studying people who left the recovery many are pagan, have become skin color focused and others have gone into hyper grace churches that celebrate the works of darkness because God is just a big sugar daddy that turns a blind eye to everything we do that is bad.
@@Love_Cruelty so the post is about someone leaving a ministry with cult like tendencies. Are you even in the Christian ballpark or in a different field altogether? Judging by the way you answered my question.......
I grew up in this church life and left while i was in high school. I was completely brain washed thinking this was the way of life. When i left, I was shamed and to this day, i still feel shame as an adult because i am so traumatized by all the sessions i was forced to attend. They start you while you’re young (sister meetings, young people meetings, Saturday youth meetings, Sunday meetings, Tuesday night group meetings). They completely occupy your time so that you never have a chance to make new friends or get “tempted” by worldly things. I still believe in God on my own terms, but I don’t believe in the LSM lifestyle.
Everything you said is true. I grew up in the Local Church my whole life. I’m a third generation church kid. My grandfather was friends with Witness Lee. Be prepared for to get bombarded with hateful comments, denial, and gaslighting. Thank you for speaking out!
I was a member of this church for over 20 years pretty much grew up attended since I was 10 years old I just gotta say some of the things said are true I remember they told me to scream Jesus to the wall and do really crazy stuff but I myself find it really fun because doing dumb things and screaming out loud JESUS is interesting but I wouldn’t recommend anyone to go there because it’s cultish I stopped going there and about suicide I myself jumped off a 150 foot bridge I don’t think anyone should go there the church is horrible they say lies I believe in you sister your videos inspire me to turn away from this cult 😊
I am SO sorry you experienced that. And I am even more sorry you attempted to commit suicide. I really hope you have been able to heal since. It really is serious what happens in the group. Thank you for commenting.💛
First rule-not true. I was in the Lord's Recovery and married out of the group 3 times and was not ostracized at all. 2. I had friends outside of the group that I brought. They got baptized and met with another denomination. 3. I was never criticized or forced to do "Morning Revival". 4. I never went to the full-time training and was never criticized or ostracized or made to feel that I was a 2nd class citizen. I could go on and on but this person is a "Karen". None of what she is saying is true. I was a sinner, a worldly drunk and the local church took me in and loved me and showed me the love of the Lord Jesus. They offered me the revelation of the word of God not just from Witness Lee and Watchman Nee but from all of the men that came before them that received light from God. They saved my life and gave me a normal Christian Life. They are not perfect because there are humans there. This person needs to look at herself and deal with her own shortcomings with and leave everyone else to deal with theirs. I do not know what delusional world she is living in, where she thinks there is any group that does not have it's own culture and practices.
The importance of this is not so much the experience in the local church, it’s the false doctrine that is more concerning. Jesus Christ does not need anything or anyone. (Overcomers).
@@matthewhearne7200Revelation 12:7…“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,” There is nothing here stating anything about Jesus needing over comers. This is about the Archangel, Michael, and his angels fighting Satan and his angels. This leads to Satan and his fallen, deceived angels being thrown out of heaven and to earth. “and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:8-9 KJV God does not need His angels, He is using this battle for His Glory by allowing Satan and fallen angels to carry out His Will on earth as it is in heaven. Remember, God alone knows the end from the beginning and is working all things out for His good pleasure, not out of need. As born again believers, we have no part in any wars between angels or when Christ returns to earth. We simply follow Him to Armageddon and witness Jesus defeat everyone gathered against Him for war. Jesus only speaks and destroys them all with the Sword (Word) He speaks. The Saints do no fighting. “And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” Revelation 19:15 KJV “having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself.” Ephesians 1:9 KJV “neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;” Acts 17:25 KJV “He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?” Micah 6:8 KJV
@matthewhearne7200 her videos help me out so many times. She is NOT a Karen. She is a wemon who talk about what is going on. She should be praised. I was raised in it. I know The Lords Recovery is different for different people. For me I hated it. I spent 20 years finding proof that something was off about the church and how they treated people when I found this it changed my life, and I knew I was NOT alone. Thank you, Ritz.
Thank you for commenting and saying that. All I want is for people to get the affirmation and help they need. No one should feel alone in this. Glad you got out.☺️
Good for you! I am so glad the younger generation is coming out and telling the truth about their experiences in this organization. I wouldn't even really say it's a church--it's a business organization. Leaving was the best decision I ever made. I am embarrassed that it took me as long as it did to leave, but I saw their true colors when I had the guts to say I didn't want to go to the full time training. Oh, the love bombing stopped cold turkey and I found myself quarantined for something like being vegetarian, which I never bothered to hide since no one cared what I ate. As soon as I was informed that I was quarantined, I knew this was crazy. I just stopped going and eventually found another church, but wow does it give you church-ptsd. I tried to work through the baggage they gave me and studied scripture for myself, not through the lens of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. God blessed me 7x over for it. My love for the Lord took on a completely new meaning as the word of God opened my eyes. Don't be afraid to leave.
@@priscilamoraleda3851That is nowhere in the Bible. There is no distinction between local and universal churches, the Body/Church of Christ is one Spirit. “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit.”-1Cor. 6:17
This is not true. In fact, the Lord recovery is the only genuine local church in my opinion, no added tradition that ppl mostly like, and local church won't sugar coat any verse in order to please people. I may have some misunderstanding with some of the saints or i may have experienced something that offended me in the loacl church but still i have to say the doctrine and the teaching are above any domination. But as the church consist of mere human that still live in the flesh, they can still sin and they can make a lot of mistake toward saints.
Thanks so much for sharing! Nearly got sucked into this group a few years back through someone i was dating in the group and it makes me so sad and angry to hear how many have committed suicide which i suspect as you say is connected to the issues around the self and high control theyve experienced in the group. Thanks for speaking out and raising awareness!
Those who commited suicide are not for the Lord, they are captured, their soul by Satan and deceived by Satan, Satan came to steal, kill and destroy lives of the people. So dont blame any Christian group or believers in Christ, like Eve and Adam had been deceived all Mankind had been poisoned and deceived by Satan in the form of Snake in Genesis, now in Revelation is a DRAGON. Waaaaaa beware of your soul and spirit. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus so that your sin will be forgiven and wash away and you will received the gift of the Holy Spirit and your name will be written in the Book of Life. Mark 16:16 Acts 2:38 Rev 20:14-15
Why Miss@lizgoudie8069- you join the group just for dating and not knowing Jesus your Savior who died and wash away your sin. And give you eternal life. Your short of Christ and understanding narrow mind. Im so sorry for you. You still have time to be renewed in your mind and be transformed. You love to find your date. But you did not find Jesus as your FIRST LOVE, like Mary Magdalene who was forgiven, wipe Jesus feet wd her hair and annoint it wd alabaster perfume. Wash it wd her tears of joy in seeing and knowing Jesus. But you just joint the group and search for a man, what a wretch soul you have?????
No one had committed suicide. When you are in Christ you will be contented , happy and at peace. What this poor lady is saying about the church in recovery are all mis understanding. You may join the meetings to find out. You will have mis understandings if you have not seen Gods vision of divine eternal economy. And you will remain in the world if you will remain or choose not to get your mind renewed everyday. It is only God who works unto us. Set God’s faith into us. It is God’s grace upon us that the truths about him is revealed to us.
@@francesescobin7964 Those have committed suicide because satins like you, no saints choose to believe those wounded. The wounded ones were intrinsically easily believe people in the church. I myself and my family were serving for the saints and have been knowing a lot of abnormal things. The "normals" they have blind eyes to not believe that some brothers or sisters have weaknesses in controlling themselves in sexual stuff. I was like you firstly not believe it, but as things go further yes I started to believe. Because the sister was too simple to believe the leading brother's word and got pregnant.🤰She thought brothers in this church were all trustworthy. Ok, so afterward no one took the responsibility of it just because everything is covered-up. See how dangerous cover-ups are.
I attended church meetings & functions all throughout high school and have moved all over the country and have popped into meetings here and there over the last 20 years and only have had positive experiences. For my own reasons I’ve attended different churches but I only have positive things to say about the Lords Recovery and the earnestness with which their members love and follow Jesus. My thoughts aligned exactly with @atari_gaming_007 while I was listening to this post. If you want to look at things through a negative lens or a worldly lens yes some of the habits may seem odd but in my experience not unlike most churches (what church lets you just talk about whatever you want on Sunday and Morning Revival is just like a devotional based on the weeks sermon at other churches and where is she getting these suicide numbers from?). Every church is not every persons cup of tea and no church led by people is flawless but to question the validity and the heart of the the Lords Recovery is wild and irresponsible to me. These people are fervent & locked in on their pursuit of God & their love of Jesus plain and simple.
Good. Praise the Lord that you have not been harmed as many others have been. Let's hope that the ones who are not hurt by this group will be willing to reach out to the ones who are and provide them with the healing they need. That you are willing to comment on here is surely a step forward in this process. Coming here and commenting on videos like this is already against what the leaders of The Lord's Recovery have instructed their followers to do. "Avoid the poison" is such a common phrase when they see the testimonies of those who have been hurt and choose to speak up. May the Lord be so merciful as to shut the mouths of such men who try to silence the broken and downtrodden rather than shepherding them as they should.
Have you read their ministry?? This is from their elders training. What a hotbed for abuse! They are literally asking to breed abuse with ideas like this! “The Lord seemingly tolerated Judas because as the Son, the Lord managed and administered God's household according to outward rule. This is the reason He never exposed Judas's stealing. If we judged this according to our knowledge, we would call this a political, not a Christian, move. A man in the world becomes wise and experienced when he reaches fifty; he no longer does anything foolish. He becomes shrewd and cunning. He never falls prey to anything. But this is the way of the world. No Christian should become shrewd and cunning through the knowledge he has gained of other men. If we deal with the brothers and sisters according to knowledge, we can spare ourselves many crosses and headaches by relying on our shrewdness. Today our knowledge about the brothers and sisters is limited. After a few years, this knowledge will increase. Then we will know the brothers as soon as we talk with them, and it will be hard for us to love them. Yet this should not happen among us. If we deal with the brothers according to knowledge, we will become shrewd and cunning. This is not growth, but degradation.” Elders Training, Book 7
@@heatherprock8205 Not only are the elders discouraged from learning and growing and applying their knowledge as they should under God’s guidance, those who have concerns are encouraged to remain silent lest they be bringers of “death.” … “We saw in the last rebellion that even co-workers can be deadened. We should not think that anyone is immune. One among those with whom we serve could be in death. If we then maintain our relationship with him by natural affection, we will allow his death to pass to us. As a result, we will become deadened, and we will even become death. For example, that person may be in the realm of right and wrong. Everything we pass through related to death is from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He may be reasoning about things, complaining about how the brothers are treating him, criticizing the brothers for being wrong, and justifying himself for being right. If we receive that kind of reasoning out of our natural affection for that one, we ourselves will eventually be in the realm of right and wrong and in death.” (69) “Time and time again we have observed the negative results of personal relationships out of natural affection. We need to be on guard to be separated from the natural affection. Instead, we should have Christ as our affection for others.” (71) “We should especially learn to submit to God’s deputy authority. In the past rebellion some were saying that there is no deputy authority. This is absurd… The deputy authorities in the church are the elders. Without elders there would be anarchy. We must obey God’s deputy authority, whoever or whatever they are.” (74) “Related to the matter of death, we need to realize that in the same way that there is a trash can in every home, there are negative elements in every church. The ‘trash can’ is the gossip, murmurings, and criticisms, regardless of whether they are true or not. Whether it is false trash or true trash, it is still trash.” (76) “When we are with a person, we need to consider whether we feel enlivened, encouraged, bright, and happy or whether we feel depressed, discouraged, and deadened. If the latter, it shows that we have been receiving trash. We must refuse death and accept life.” (77) (The Ministry of the Word, Vol. 16, No. 12, December 2012. The Overcomers. Message 11:The Overcomers in Sardis (2) Overcoming the Deadness of Sardis. Pages 69, 71, 74, 76, and 77. Published by Living Stream Ministry) … Let me now tell you the secret to being solidly perfected to be a strong pillar for the Lord’s move. Certain brothers have been perfected because they have had no concepts of their own. Recently, one brother declared strongly that he only knows to follow the ministry of Brother Lee and to absorb everything of this ministry. There have been others among us who were quite opinionated. They often said, “Brother Lee says such-and-such. Is this right? Is the church right? Just a week ago, I learned about a mistake made by the church.” None of these opinionated ones has yet been perfected. But those who have been perfected to be pillars are not like this. Even when they see certain mistakes, they forget about them, having no time to waste discussing them. They only desire to soak in all the positive things. According to God’s principle in His creation, in order for anything to grow there is the need for a negative side. Take the example of a chicken. We all appreciate chicken eggs, breasts, and legs, but we certainly do not care for chicken dung, feathers, and bones. Nevertheless, without dung, feathers, and bones, a chicken cannot grow. In order for a chicken to be a chicken, it must have these things. But it is not our portion to eat them. We should enjoy the eggs, the breasts, and the legs, and forget the dung, the feathers, and the bones. If we concentrate on the positive aspects of the chicken, we shall receive much nourishment. I admit that the church in Los Angeles has made certain mistakes, and I confess that I have made mistakes. The elders can testify of this. Everybody makes mistakes. No one can deny this. I have had to make mistakes in order to grow. These mistakes are my “dung.” If you eat this, you are foolish. I also admit that I have “feathers.” The church in Los Angeles also has had a certain amount of “feathers” and “bones.” However, without these “feathers,” “bones,” and “dung,” neither the church in Los Angeles nor my ministry would be able to exist. Do you intend to gather up the “feathers” and say, “Look! This is the church in Los Angeles. Look! This is what Brother Lee has done. See all these awful ‘feathers.’” If you do this, you will not damage the church in Los Angeles or my ministry, but you will surely damage yourself. To do this is not wise. These who have been perfected to be pillars, who surely are not less intelligent than you, are wise. Their eyes are much clearer than yours. But they refuse to devote their attention to the negative things. They would say, “Although Brother Lee has some ‘dung,’ he has a great many eggs. I don’t care for the ‘dung’ issuing out of his ministry-I want to eat all the ‘eggs,’ ‘breasts,’ and ‘legs.’ I have no time to hear about ‘feathers’ and ‘bones.’” Let us follow the example of such brothers to forget the negative things and to feast upon the “eggs,” “breasts,” and “legs.” This is my burden in this message. Are you in Anaheim as a spy, investigating whether or not Witness Lee has any “dung”? I cannot live without “dung.” To be sure, both “feathers” and “bones” can be found here in Anaheim. The elders have made many “bones.” But I would stand, even dance, upon all the “bones” they have made; I would not be so foolish as to eat them. Three or four of us knew Brother Nee very intimately. He fully opened himself to us, and we knew his imperfections. But we realized that these imperfections were the “dung” that enabled him to exist. Unlike others, we would not cling to his “feathers,” nor to the “bones” of the “chicken” in Shanghai. If we had done this, we would have sacrificed ourselves. I never suffered such self-inflicted damage. Rather, I enjoyed the fresh, nourishing “eggs,” “breasts,” and “legs” of Brother Nee’s ministry. When a great turmoil was aroused against his ministry, I was not ashamed to say that I was an absolute follower of Brother Nee. I did not care what others said about his mistakes. I only knew how grateful I was to him for the perfection he had rendered to me. I knew the nourishment I had received from him. Even when we are in the New Jerusalem, I shall be able to say that the Lord used Brother Nee to perfect me. Apart from his ministry, I would never be the person I am today. How foolish it would be for anyone in the church to devote his time to finding “dung” or stuffing his pockets with “feathers,” saying, “This is a ‘feather’ from that ‘chicken’ Witness Lee, and these are the ‘bones’ of the church in Anaheim. Don’t you know that the church in Anaheim has made mistakes?” If this is your intention, you are wasting your time. You are in the wrong place. Neither Witness Lee nor the church in Anaheim would pay you for exposing them. But do not think that we are afraid of being exposed. Whatever Witness Lee is, he is what he is. Whether the church is genuine or not, the church is what the church is. Neither the church in Anaheim nor my ministry is afraid of exposure. On the contrary, we appreciate it. But what will you gain by exposing us? (Life-study of Genesis, Witness Lee, Chapter 88, pp. 1136 - 1139, published by Living Stream Ministry in 1987).
As a former Mormon I would not say habits are "odd". They certainly are unique but personally that is neither here nor there. The parts I find disturbing are the control I have seen so much control over people such as guilt or people correcting each other in prayer. Also, how Witness Lee is mentioned more than Jesus.
Speaking of brother Nee - did you guys know that he was jailed by the Communists under a false charge, tortured, stayed there for around 20 years & died in prison? And he continued to love the Lord every day.
Yup. Degrading other Christian groups is common in their prophesying meetings. Two other unspoken rules would be: 1. No boundaries - concept of being able to say no does not exist. To say no is akin to being rebellious. Authority/submission ranks over an individual boundaries. 2. Opinions - do not express your own opinions. It is looked down upon.
You are so correct! You basically have to use very specific verbiage and words. When talking about other groups it could never really be in a positive light. They basically only recognize themselves as true Christians.
Yep. This was how it was. I got that pushback once I started analyzing church history and comparing it to Witness Lee's theology and they weren't lining up. I eventually became Roman Catholic and the reaction was pretty bad to say the least
I was recently approached by a girl in my college class with a lady and they have been asking me every day to go out with them to dinner and to join the church...😅 Im catholic (I even told them) but they are always extremely persistent to the point where its very uncomfortable for me lol. I've been researching exactly what this church is about but all Ive seen so far is bad things which makes me nervous about them being so persistent with me joining lolll
I wouldn’t recommend it, they hate the Catholic Church. In their one video trainings, one of their elders ranted about what he called, “The Apostate Catholic Church”. This is quite common once you get to know them better.
@@gunnarlindenmusic When I was there they definitely didn’t hide the fact that their emphasis was on outreach toward college age young people, especially in the Bible belt where it’s “easier” to talk about God and the Bible.
@@Bicyclechris yes all these similar groups prey on The Young and vulnerable. My sister was away at college without family support I'm sure she was lonely and the rest is history it just stinks. I just make sure she knows she can communicate with us and I made my opinion clear when I first heard of the group she was getting involved with because I did my research. I do not add confrontational about it though because I know they are trained to be defensive towards any accusations of cult like behavior. Cognitively I could tell she was at odds when I questioned her about a statement. She knew it was wrong what he said but she couldn't come to grips that he could be wrong. It was in reference to people being saved just by calling on the Lord three times. 99% of Bible believers will say that you have to believe in your heart it's not an act to be saved just by speaking words.
The true Gospel! Jesus Christ loves you and died, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven to pay for your sin! Turn to Him and you will walk in light and be saved. Read the book of John and Luke to see God's love for you!
My sister got wrapped up over 5 years ago. Everything you said has happened to her. I researched the group as soon as she dropped out of college to go to the training I was concerned and saw the red flags. My parents didn't wake up in time to realize that it was such an issue until she was already marrying a stranger. All I try to do is keep the communication open even though she is being pushed farther and farther away now living in another soon to move halfway across the country again
@@Love_Cruelty no they married her to somebody whose parents are elders at one of the local churches. She probably knew him for 6 months before getting married.
@@Love_Cruelty just like you said I showed the video to my mom because I follow a lot of ex-members on the internet and follow their stories. I really wish I could find out more about how the money operates. I know living stream ministry makes money off the books I'm sure and I'm sure the training in Anaheim cost money. I'm sure the buildings in Anaheim are paid off so they only have to pay taxes on the real estate which I'm sure as a religious group is small if anything. I'm sure all the trainees pay to go to the training in Anaheim california.
It sounds like you got some weird stuff going on in your locality. I think if you want to edify your locality or the ministry as a whole you should add scripture behind your points. No Locality is immune to religious hypocrisy, I encourage everyone to go from home to home and you will find the genuine believers who know their God.
I am not in the local church, but please read Revelation 2 and 3, and you will see that Christ is looking for overcomers and encouraging you to be one.
@@KomitasKhosrovian the doctrine goes far beyond my acceptance because it says Christ “needs.” Christ is in no way in need of anything. This idea strips Him of His deity. It’s not complicated. Heresy! I rebuke that.
I understand what you mean. To say Jesus needs it seems we touch Christ's divinity. But in reality, this is a translational issue from Mandarin to English. Jesus is looking for or searching for overcomers. He encourages the churches to overcome. He does not need in the sense that if there are no overcomers, He cannot exist. Here, "need" means the desire to have to accomplish His plan. He wants overcomers that through them, the body of Christ can be built up. They do not teach that Christ needs something that He can live or exist. Overcomers are actually normal Christians who conquer the enemy. This is in the New Testament all over the place. So, that is not doctrinal; rather, it is language technicality. Like we do not have a proper words to describe "God head" Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one but separate from one another. The language always come short to describe spiritual things. Without Christians overcoming sin, satan, and the world through Him and His blood, there is no way the body of Christ, the church, can be established on earth. So to overcome it simply means to be what Jesus desires for His plan. If He desires that means He wants, if He wants you can say He needs. But not need means He cannot exist without that. No He is God and does not need anything to exist. But to accomplish His eternal plan, He needs me and you to become overcomers.
I hope it hasn't shaken your faith! Thank you for being candid about your experience. Great post! I'm reminded of Colossians 2:8-10 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. God Bless!
You may have missed the point. It’s not all about the experience, it’s more about the false doctrine and following a man’s interpretation of the Bible.
@@bewaretheLamb808 It’s about the experience. I’ve found videos like this from all Christian backgrounds. People who share with the world their bad experiences here and there, and many thinking they know what’s going on because of a brief video on RU-vid.
@@raphtube75I went to a local church. For about a year. My experience was very similar, pressure to marry a woman I hardly knew, others looking down on me when I had something to share that was not in line with the footnotes in the Recovery version Bible and being guilt tripped when not attending a conference or doing the morning revival. The doctrine is heretical and the experience is oppressive. Period. It’s a blatant cult.
Very encouraged to see that more and more people are speaking up! Speaking the unspoken rules out loud reveals their absurdity and helps loosen the grip they have on people. Lots of things in the Lord's Recovery retain their power because everyone dances around them rather than identifying or acknowledging them. Keep it up!
She did that’s why she left 😂😂 The recovery is nothing more then a cult that speaks about having a relationship with Jesus but never actually having or showing how to have a relationship with Jesus. It’s all talk and no actions. So if anything your the one who doesn’t understand Gods economy 😊
Well there ain’t no Lords work being done in the Recovery I can tell you that much 😊 If the words of God aren’t more important then man’s words nothing spiritual can be done in that church
No offense, but I think you are missing some larger issues and occurrences. For example, Phillip Lee, Witness Lee's son, is reputed to have sexually attacked sisters in the churches/LSM. Rape is the rumor. To this, supposedly, Witness Lee turned a blind eye. Further, Witness Lee supposedly borrowed money from saints in churches (Boston, I think) and never paid them back. He said it was a gift. He had a sense of entitlement, I suppose. Then again, Living Stream Ministry was/is/has been something of a money-making venture, needlessly publishing and republishing the same texts and translation of the Bible over and over again to make money, forcing local churches to pay thousands of dollars for trainings. LSM raked it in, I think. "A fish begins to stink from the head down." Italian proverb. Having said that, I still think there are good people in the local churches and some genuine spiritual experience. I was in the local churches in my youth, and I had some of the best and worst experiences in my life in different churches. They are not all the same. Like people. See 1 Corinthians for a realistic picture of the local churches. I left the churches and attended Harvard Divinity School, studying comparative mythology and religion. It has taken years to heal the wounds I suffered in the local churches. But I am whole now. I think for myself and live without hating and judging others because it is by our actions that we needlessly judge ourselves. What a waste! Now I don't judge myself, so there's no need to judge anyone else. Matt. 7:1. The teaching of Jesus Christ is unconditional love and radical forgiveness, in my opinion. It doesn't matter what anyone does or believes. Jesus forgives them unconditionally. That is the real meaning of Life. I hope you experience that inside or outside the local churches. It's what really matters. People in the local churches talk a good game. But their hearts are often cold and doctrinal - without love, blinded by doctrinal pride. Not everyone, however. There are many there who experience God as unconditional love, too. May you know God as unconditional love.
I've been having home meeting for several years. In my parents house and now in at my house. Im sorry to say. But everything your saying are lies. You should read your bible more. You can have friends. But lets be real. There's people that loves satan and the world. There people that loves the Lord and His word. People will always try to influence. My brothers and sisters never force me to read a morning revival. They pray with me in my time of need. They pray for my children. In this dark world. Why not get this help? I have learned so much and had only wonderful experiences. My brother do not add or take away from the bible. But all they speak is the word.
I was in a local church and what she is saying is the truth. If you have not experienced this, some “rules” may vary location to location. I was dejected to learn after a year of learning under Witness Lee’s teaching that they believe “God needs the overcomers,” a song they would sing and a doctrine taught in their life study of Ezekiel. I questioned a number of elders about this blatant heresy. I was patronized and talked down to. I left this cult as a result as they never could explain why they believe that God needs the church to fulfill His Will. I was also pressured to marry a woman in this cult. The “Recovery Version” Bible they use is also a red flag as Witness Lee’s interpretation is in the “notes” and outweighs what the Bible (KJV) says.
@@dejonketchup definitely still believe and trust Jesus Christ, all glory and honor and power to Him alone who saves! Thanks for asking. I lost faith in the local church, not The Lord. Happily attending Calvary Chapel Kaneohe. My faith and dedication to God has never been stronger. God bless you! ❤️🙏⏰⬆️☁️
Yep, she pretty much nailed the same experience i had. Only the living stream has the light to interpret the scripture any thing is not only frowned upon but not allowed to share other views even in private. I was taken back that u cant be yourself. u have to pretend that life never gets u down or that u may have strongholds. it's like a mask u have to wear in church.
I am a part of the church, and I find all this strange. I've never actually seen any rules in the ministry, but hey, maybe it's just the Church of Chicago@@Momma5000
It’s a place called The Lord’s Recovery (a.k.a. “The Local Churches). It was founded and led by a man named Witness Lee. He’s been dead for decades, but his teachings are still strictly reinforced in their churches.
Thanks for sharing this sister. It’s been 12 years since we left the Local Church. It was a traumatizing break for the family, but a necessary one. The Lord has been been faithful, though at times we are faithless. I love Him no less.
Grew up in this church and 99.8% of what you say is not true. Are you a Christian? Because every Christian I know even outside of the recovery says to die to the self, to deny the self, take up your cross daily and follow after Christ. There is no difference in that message from the recovery, to the Bible, to real Christian churches. That teaching is not exclusive to the recovery. Luke 9:23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Galatians 2:20, John 12:24
Those are solid doctrines you bring up. What about the doctrine that is taught by LSM of God needs over comers? “God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;” Acts 17:24-25
Not true..My son married outside and he did not have to work in the church.What is wrong with eating together.Why is being loving bad.We are really faith driven.Everything is biblical.I have never seen a suicide
I know three people born and raised in the church who committed suicide. Two were children of elders. You haven’t heard bc they don’t talk about the spiritual abuse and resulting trauma from the local church practices
@heatherprock8205 What is the rate of suicide in the general population.Just because a person has ill children with problems does not reflect on the church.Peiple are ill inside and outside churches.Noone is perfect,we are not perfect neither are you.Suicides are common these days.Do you know how many people commit suicide in other churches!
@@mariakatsande704 I don’t know what the rate is. I just know I haven’t been involved in the local churches in many years. Ive personally known only 4 ppl in my life that have committed suicide. All 4 were involved in the local churches, 2 of them were children of elders. I’m 41 now. Does that answer your question?
Excellent video! Someday, I hope very soon, the truth about the churchlife will come out to the public and save more people from getting involved in this group.
@@Standing4TheTruth I see what’s going on at my local university with the club and I can’t think about it for long because it makes me feel physically ill. So heartbreaking and deceptive to prey on a vulnerable population. I was one of them.
@@riseabove1256 , I don't know if the practice still exists, but when I was a young adult the campus work focused heavily on incoming college freshman and not 21-22 age group. In the locality where my parents live, the focus was on international students.
@@riseabove1256 it is so deceiving! We are fighting to get our daughter out of this group that she got involved last fall as a freshman. They are good at lies and deception !
The gospel and the word of God is for everyone that will receive it, believe it, and follow it. The Lord’s Recovery is typically for specific demographics, especially college students. They do not propagate the gospel to anyone and everyone and when they are it’s laced with the doctrine of men.
I have been in many churches and all kinds of denominations and non-denominational. I do not see any doctrinal problem with this church. Now, if they act incorrectly or practice things that other churches do not practice, it does not mean they are false. It is alright to express our experience with any local church we have, but we never can conclude that they are incorrect. It was your personal experience. I see the same issue with so many other denominations and non-denominations. To complain about a church and put it in public shows how much our inner life has grown. The church is one, even though we divided it into many names. So when we complain about the church in public, we declare our weakness to the enemy.
When the complaints are valid, it shows our commitment to holding our fellow believers accountable for their actions. Paul often called out the churches for their shortcomings because he knew the Lord would lead them to be better. Many abuses have taken place within The Lord’s Recovery and they’ve done a poor job caring for those who are suffering under their care. If they will not care for their sheep properly, they have no right to complain when those sheep cry out from pain or hunger. True weakness is trying to silence the poor and oppressed when they call for help and trying to guilt-trip for making their troubles known publicly. You’re just trying to cover up your mistakes and your mess. If you don’t like this, then deal with your churches wisely and care for your sheep. Fix your mistakes and clean up your mess. But rather The Lord’s Recovery has only sought to beat them down and starve them. Is this your “growth in life”? If keeping silent when the church is abusing and neglecting its members is “growth in life,” then you can keep your rotten life to yourself and fester in it while calling on the Lord. Meanwhile, we will continue to give a voice to those that Lee and his denomination has tried to silence. This is what the Lord commands of us.
*Ezekiel 34:1-16* *1* The word of the Lord came to me: *2* “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? *3* You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. *4* You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. *5* So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. *6* My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them. *7* “‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: *8* As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, *9* therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: *10* This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. *11* “‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. *12* As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. *13* I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. *14* I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. *15* I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord. *16* I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.
Do you have a problem with this? From Elders Training, Book 7 “The Lord seemingly tolerated Judas because as the Son, the Lord managed and administered God's household according to outward rule. This is the reason He never exposed Judas's stealing. If we judged this according to our knowledge, we would call this a political, not a Christian, move. A man in the world becomes wise and experienced when he reaches fifty; he no longer does anything foolish. He becomes shrewd and cunning. He never falls prey to anything. But this is the way of the world. No Christian should become shrewd and cunning through the knowledge he has gained of other men. If we deal with the brothers and sisters according to knowledge, we can spare ourselves many crosses and headaches by relying on our shrewdness. Today our knowledge about the brothers and sisters is limited. After a few years, this knowledge will increase. Then we will know the brothers as soon as we talk with them, and it will be hard for us to love them. Yet this should not happen among us. If we deal with the brothers according to knowledge, we will become shrewd and cunning. This is not growth, but degradation.”
How about maybe God uses everything to speak to you including satan, w/ his unique function to attacking your weak spots to cause you pain & alarm, that you'd rise up to repent & be fortified by God? To disregard & deny the signs overtime would cloud your conscience & turn weaknesses into falsehood...
Sister Ritz , There are two kinds of recovery 1. an external recovery 2. an internal recovery You never saw the reality because you were practicing an external recovery. If you have the internal recovery you will have a vision that controls you, enjoying and touching Christ in your internal parts. I was a Christian for about 25 years but when I came to the local churches everything changed for my life. I experienced what the human spirit is and enjoying the presence of Christ in my internal parts. A person who comes to the recovery; can attend meetings can sing hymns can read revivals can prophesy can go to trainings can go to conferences can read life studies etc. But all these things are only external activities that is an external recovery. A member of the body of Christ can do all these activities and never touch the Holy Spirit within his spirit. As I understand this was your case. May the Lord Jesus open your eyes and may you touch the presence of Christ within you so that you will no longer tell lies. John 7.38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water
Sounds like you got me all figured out.😉 Actually, how did I not see this before? You must be a great judge of character. I guess the other hundreds of comments that agree must also be fallen souls of some sort. 🧐
@@Standing4TheTruth If someone stands against The Lord’s Recovery, nothing else matters. Keeping in line with The Lord’s Recovery takes precedence even over the scriptures. It is a large part of why so many ex-members, Christian or not, can be so casually dismissed as those who “did not have the controlling vision.” As Witness Lee wrote to the elders: _We are here for the Lord’s recovery. I am not doing my own work, and you are not doing your own work. We all are bearing one testimony; we all have our shoulders under the “poles” of the “Ark.” Since we are all bearing the one testimony, we all should speak the same thing (1 Cor. 1:10). But the speaking in certain places is leading the saints in a direction that is away from the Lord’s recovery. Such speaking may not be wrong or unscriptural. It may be right and scriptural, but eventually it will lead the saints in a wrong direction._ _If we go in a straight line, we will reach a proper goal. But if our direction is off, eventually we will reach a goal that is not the goal of the Lord’s recovery. Even after a short period of time, trouble may come to the recovery through your way of speaking scriptural things, that is, through your speaking of good messages. Although there is nothing wrong with your speaking, it may lead others in a wrong direction. If so, eventually that will become a problem to the whole recovery._ _The recovery is not merely a local matter. Although the recovery is in your local church, the recovery is universal. If you lead those in your locality in a direction that is off from the recovery, then there will be two directions-the direction in the recovery as a whole and the direction in your locality. If you teach in a way that leads others in a different direction, some may receive your teaching, but many of those in the Lord’s recovery will reject it. They will not “swallow” your teaching._ _From experience we know that the one who teaches differently is the first one to be sacrificed. This means that if you teach differently, you run the risk not of sacrificing the recovery but of sacrificing yourself. We all need to practice Paul’s word to Timothy: “Even as I exhorted you, when I was going into Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus in order that you might charge certain ones not to teach different things” (1 Tim. 1:3). Instead of teaching differently, we should all speak the same thing._ *(Elders’ Training, Book 3: The Way to Carry Out the Vision, from the Collected Works of Witness Lee, 1984, Volume 2, Chapter 12, p. 343)* Their main priority is not binding people to the word of God, but rather the word of Lee.
Ive heard that Witness Lee read almost all other versions of the Bible and read the New Testament through over 200 times. How can I comment if I have done neither of the two myself?
@@nats77710 Indeed. Oftentimes people are ignorant to what Christ wants. That’s why there are many evils that occur in the assemblies. The word of God gets twisted. Men Lord it over those they should be taking care of. People who speak up are shunned and silenced. Those who _should_ be speaking up and taking a stand run from their responsibility to defend the faith and protect God’s sheep, making excuses for themselves. It is a tragic thing, this.
There is one I have - it's a book about cults - and one chapter is on the local church. I had to take it off my book shelves b/c a family member is in the cult and stayed in my spare bedroom a few times. I didn't want her to see it and get angry. Now I don't know where I hid the book.
Former Elder John Ingalls wrote a book titled “Speaking the Truth in Love” Former elder John Myer wrote a book titled “A Future and a Hope” Former elder Steve Isitt wrote a ton of little books on Amazon Former member Jane Anderson wrote a book titled “Thread of Gold” A woman named Lily Hsu wrote a book about Witness Lee’s mentor, Watchman Nee.
It’s actually good to find a sister in the church because they believe the same thing you do. If you go somewhere else you may have belief issues and problems. I actually grew up in the church and dated someone who I ended breaking up with and yeah she was an unbeliever and nobody said a thing to me even though I knew they were praying for me and hoping for the best. The Bible also says don’t be yoked with unbelievers 2 Cor 6:14 it doesn’t say don’t speak with them or invite them somewhere. If I’m speaking to a new one or someone who has not been saved I’m not going to make him a friend lol or go to parties with him. I will go out to lunch or hangout somewhere safe but to be yoked with an unbeliever is not healthy even the Bible says that. Why are you spreading lies athe church? The morning revival is to train you to have morning time with the lord because why wouldn’t you want to tell the One you love you love Him 1st thing in the morning. Also you can share whatever you want on Sunday it doesn’t have to be the morning revival. You just dont do random things in the church thats why therex always something to read and share on Sundays and everyday of the week. So you are upset because you want to be paid big money for serving and it upsets you that someone doesn’t care about money and is willing to love God regarding about how much they make. It’s there choice not yours.and serving is not mandatory lol where do you get this stuff from. Go to school and work in what you studied for. Nobody is forcing you to go anywhere or do anything. Every church has their own interpretations of the Bible you know this that’s why you have different denominations. So if someone is courting someone they should announce it to everyone? No what about if it doesn’t workout? Getting closer to the end of this video and people who have gone to the training and our married and have been in the church should already start to be maturing and start reading the word by themselves and helping others grow. If my child never grew up something mentally or physically is wrong. Yes at 1st we long for the pure milk of the word when we are new so we can grow 1pet 2:1-6 and Heb 5:14 solid food is for the mature for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. The self that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. So basically I’m supposed to read books on how to become a better person? Nothing good dwells in the flesh because it has been damaged by the enemy. I don’t want to be good I want to express Christ because life is only found in him, everything else is out of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which belongs to satan because even he is good to his followers. If I were you id pray quickly, like the Bible says I will deny my soul life until the lord returns.
@@bewaretheLamb808 yes, JesusChrist is the Rock, the corner Stone, and everything. We also bcame a small stone a rock for the building up of the BODY OF CHRSIT. Its like a building wall that had been joined together knit together tru every joint of the rich supply of JesusChrist.
According to your little god by the name of Lee, the church was actually lost and defeated, that’s what he wrote. So someone must be lying, and I’m pretty sure it’s not Jesus in that verse. The whole “recovery movement”, is based and build on a lie! They recovered absolutely nothing!
@@thetruetruth6474 Back off Satan, and all your devilish thoughts, mind, and work. Prepare yourself to Hades and the Lake of fire. You have little time left. Where O death is your victory, where O death is your sting. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God who always give us truimph and victory in ChristJesus our Lord. Who had been risen frm the death, resurrected and ascended in the heavenlies and now sitted on the Right hand of God in the heavenlies far above all rule and power, and authorities and Lordship and every name that is name not only in this age but also in that wc is to come. That every Knee should bow and evry tongue should confess those who are in the heaven and on earth and under neath the earth that Jesus is Lord for the Glory of God the Father. Amen. I Cor 15:55-57 Ephesians 1:21-22,23, Phils 2:10-11 “And HE SUBJECTED all things under His Feet and gave Him to be the HEAD over all things to the Church, Which is HIS BODY, the fullness of the ONE who fills all in all.
For those are confused, “Living Stream Ministry” is only the “publisher” business name, because by local law, it requires a business name to publish. In reality, the church belongs to Christ & does not take ANY names - neither including WN or WL. This is NOT “ Living Stream Ministry,” “Lord’s Recovery” (as in a title), “Local Church,” etc. The ministry is referred to as the “Lord’s recovery” (small “r”) because it is trying to “recover” the truths in the Bible, who were hidden throughout the Dark Ages - when Catholicism would not allow lay people to read the Bible. So the only Biblical interpretation back then only came from the Pope & his subsidiaries, often using that for political gain. (The Church & politics do not mix.) And if people are really interested to know, the Catholic “system” was teaching a paganized RELIGION carried over from the Druids, Babylonians, etc. They brought in the LEAVEN into the mix - so many people think of Christianity today, has been mixed, not just from Catholicism back then, but from very many other elements since then and up to today. Jesus told the parable of the woman mixing leaven into the flour & WARNED against that. We pray that we REMOVE the leaven from the fine flour & the scales off our eyes.
Here is a pledge of allegiance to Witness Lee and Living Stream Ministry signed by 419 elders from various churches in The Lord’s Recovery (big “R”): _I received a long letter of twenty-seven pages on the morning of our final day of fellowship in this elders’ training. The first page is the contents of the letter, and all the rest of the twenty-six pages are signatures. All the signatures are designated from the different churches. After reading the contents, I am so grateful to the four hundred and nineteen brothers who signed it. The contents of this letter follow, along with my letter of response to the brothers who signed it._ _February 21, 1986 Anaheim, California_ _Dear Brother Lee,_ _After hearing your fellowship in this elders’ training, we all agree to have a new start in the Lord’s recovery. For this, we all agree to be in one accord and to carry out this new move of the Lord solely through prayer, the Spirit, and the Word. We further agree to practice the recovery one in: teaching, practice, thinking, speaking, essence, appearance, and expression. We repudiate all differences among the churches, and all indifference toward the ministry, the ministry office, and the other churches. We agree that the church in our place be identical with all the local churches throughout the earth. We also agree to follow your leading as the one who has brought us God’s New Testament economy and has led us into its practice. We agree that this leading is indispensable to our oneness and acknowledge the one trumpet in the Lord’s ministry and the one wise master builder among us. We further agree to practice the church life in our locality absolutely in a new way: to build the church in, through, and based upon home meetings; to lead every member to get used to functioning without any idea to depend on any giant speakers; to teach all the saints to know the basic truths in an educational way that they may teach others for the spreading of the truth; to build up the saints in the growth in life that they may minister life to others, shepherd each other, and take care of the backsliding ones; to lead all the saints to preach the gospel in every possible way; to avoid leadership as much as possible; and to have home gatherings for nurturing the saints in life and big meetings for educating the saints in truths. We agree that all the preceding points are the clear and definite teaching of the Bible according to God’s New Testament economy. Finally, we agree that the success of this new move is our responsibility and will rise up to labor and endeavor with our whole being, looking to the Lord for His mercy and grace that we would be faithful to the end._ _Your brothers for the Lord’s recovery_ **(Elders’ Training, Book 8: The Life Pulse Of The Lord’s Present Move, From the Collected Works of Watchman Lee, 1986, Vol. 1, Chapter 10, published by Living Stream Ministry)** The implementation of a “one publication” mandate which obligated the assemblies in The Lord’s Recovery to abide by the teachings of LSM further cemented this loyalty to Witness Lee and Living Stream Ministry even after his death. Witness Lee himself has stated not only that he and his disciples are in The Lord’s Recovery, but that they ARE The Lord’s Recovery. The leaven of Witness Lee and his Living Stream Ministry has done quite a number on the spiritual, psychological, and at times even the physical health of his disciples. Witness Lee was proudly proclaimed as the “Minister of the Age” who has God’s one plan for all the churches on the earth, the “Acting God on earth” whose lead we must follow lest we be rebelling against God, “God’s deputy authority” who may not ever be corrected or rebuked lest we incur the wrath of God, and the one who “has the oracle of God” and all the light of the scriptures in his writings. “Witness Lee” “The Lord’s Recovery” “The Local Churches” They have taken many names, and not just “legally” but in their hearts and minds.
And, notice how it is signed “Your brothers for the Lord’s recovery.” (SMALL “r”). Your argument is invalid. Of course, when you’re using the words in a “title” (such as a title of a book), then you have to capitalize for grammar sake. And that would be the case when there will be a capitalized “R.” Around 1986 was when there were some causing trouble. Much of what is written on these pages, also has to do with the concurrent history of the time. But if you’re not aware, and you’re just looking back, it may not make as much sense to you. And people can be taking things out of context. There is NO “Lord’s recovery” “MOVEMENT” - this has been spoken against many times & WL himself said many times NOT to be a “movement.” Movements are derived from human activity.
@@orhbo0 Calling themselves “your brothers in The Lord’s recovery” does not invalidate years of establishing and propagating an authoritarian church structure, and they have gone to great lengths to reinforce this authority. They pledged allegiance to a man, his ministry office, and his ministry. Just about everyone, supporters included, sees this as a cohesive and easily identifiable group of Christians united under a single banner. This is not simply “the recovery.” It is “The Recovery.” And Witness Lee wrote that statement inside of his book, not as part of a title. Members of The Lord’s Recovery know what they’re in, whether they’re bold enough to admit it or not. Around 1986 there were many speaking up and challenging Witness Lee for a handful of reasons. Two of the most prominent ones were: 1. Witness Lee covering up his son Phillip who had sexually abused some sisters at the LSM office. 2. The abuse of authority of the LSM office, headed by Phillip Lee, which was trying to exercise complete authority over all of the assemblies in the Local Churches. When this started coming to light, Witness Lee’s reaction was much like a dictator’s. His main preaching, now, seemed to be of those who were “loyal” and those who were “rebels.” He began to demand loyalty from the elders, and spoke constantly of his own importance. This is evidenced by many things such as: 1. Several elders testifying about his instability at the Pasadena conference where he declared himself to be God’s oracle who should be praised and respected. 2. The acute development and/or propagation of authoritarian doctrines which focused on centralizing control on Witness Lee and his publishing company Living Stream Ministry (eg. “Minister of the Age,” “Deputy Authority,” “One Publication,” “Ground of Locality.”) 3. The heavy repercussions against those who refused to submit to Witness Lee’s and his most zealous disciples’ self-declared authority. It was so bad that there were even a few churches who agreed with his teachings yet rejected him and his son having direct authority. Even they knew that this was unhealthy. Several former elders who were active at this time testified to these things in their publications. *John Ingalls* wrote his testimony in a book titled *”Speaking the Truth in Love: A True Account of Events and Concerns Related to The Local Churches 1987 -1989”* which is freely available to read online. *John Myer* spoke of these things in his book *“A Future and a Hope: Church Life Beyond the Local Church Movement”* which is freely available to read online. *Steve Isitt* tesstified to these things in various publications which are available on Amazon. Several titles by Steve Isitt include: 1) In the Wake of the New Way: The costly Movement of a Man and a Ministry; 2) The Rosemead Rebellion; 3) Hiding History in the Nee and Lee Eras of The Lord’s Recovery; 4) The Church of Gideon and His 300 Men: Gideon’s Rise and the Churches Fall; 5) What Deputy Authority is Not: Examining Andrew Yu’s Book of Defamation and Deputy Authority Run Amok; and 6) A Time of Turmoil and the Defaming of a Leader: Examining Ron Kangas’ Slanted and Superficial Depiction of John Ingalls. Many of the so-called “rebels” were actually men who had tried to fellowship with Witness Lee and his more zealous disciples in order to facilitate peace and understanding, but because they vehemently stood against Lee’s authoritarian slant and rejected a central authority for the assemblies in The Lord’s Recovery, they were labeled as “rebels” for their efforts. The damage of false doctrines and authoritarianism is becoming more apparent as the years go on as evidenced by Jo Casteel’s open letter to the saints in The Lord’s Recovery (freely available to read online.) After speaking up against the authoritarianism and false doctrines of The Local Church, she was painted as an agent of the Devil and later even more harshly as a demon-possessed woman despite the fact that hundreds of current and ex-members echoed her concerns throughout the churches in the United States. Others who have made the brave decision to speak up include: 1. *Jacob Howard* (did a few RU-vid interviews and created a website to elaborate on Recovery doctrine and practice) 2. *Jane Anderson* (published her testimony in a book titled *“The Thread of Gold”* as well as a free-to-read open letter titled *“Can the Local Church Leadership Say, ‘We Were Wrong’?”*) 3. *Andrea McArdle* (published an open letter speaking up about an incident of abused that she was told to cover up). 4. Various former members who have spoken up on RU-vid about similar, if not identical, concerns of authoritarianism on RU-vid such as: a) Texas Street Preacher; b) The Lord’s Recovery Unchained; and c) LRPhenomenon Countless testimonies given by current and former members online in forums like “Local Church Discussions” and platforms such as Reddit, RU-vid, and even TikTok. They, too, testified to the obsession with and veneration of Witness Lee and his doctrines, and many have also testified to experiencing and/or witnessing abuses covered up in the Local Churches as well as hearing from friends/family in their who were abused and told to remain silent. The prevalence and consistency regarding testimonies of abuse of power and abuse of church members should serve as a red flag to you and others in The Lord’s Recovery so that you may examine yourselves, but unfortunately leaders of The Lord’s Recovery have only doubled down on their authoritarian tendencies and attempts to silence the testimonies of those speaking up against them.
Hi Sister, I know exactly what you taking about, I been in the church since 1982. And I know that Religions are Hospitals for human souls and like in any hospital they are rules to fallow. Every Religion has rules and traditions and every funder of that religion said that his religion is the corrected one. I study many religions and the story is the same; That is why we have so many religions in the world, and every person should meet were they feel happy and have peace. In 40 years that I fellowshipped I never agreed with any of the legalistic rules. But also never I was told by an Elder to do this and do that , but I knew that some brothers and sisters they like to direct some peoples affairs and I ignored them. I have to say this " If I Honestly can't obey God, How I will obey the rules of few legalistic group of brothers and sisters , not all of them are like that , only few. But like the Lord says, A little leaven leavens the whole lump. Besides all the negativity from the leaveanic bunch I enjoy the Lord in every meeting. For 30 years, I have had a sister in the Lord that keep telling me about my high heels and my make up , well I still my self and that sister left the church and now she looks like a movie star, she was not genuine , because she wanted to conformed to others. We need to stand for what we are and not for what others wanted us to be. In the Local Churches or The Lord Recovery are many things that are wrong , like in any other Groups. We shall fellowship where we are in peace, and not feel condemned about who we are. The full timers are those who wants to serve and it's voluntary. I love to read, and I have books from many Christian writers. I don't fallow rules, because I don't believe in Religion, many brothers and sisters called me the Rebellious sister, and is okay , I am a genuine Christian person that loves the Lord. I am happy for you and I hope you find a place to meet with others that love you and care for you . With love Your sis Irene
I met the “local church” or recovery in college and come from a Christian background where my focus was to meet with Christians not because of their denomination but because they are Christian. Throughout my time meeting with them, I’ve learned a lot but have also experienced some of what you’re talking about. I think, like all groups, sometimes traditions start to grow (like hiding dating for the sake of mitigating gossip). That’s just human nature. I still meet with them but I always slightly push back in these areas without wanting to be divisive. Unfortunately for people who grew up in this, they may be a little sheltered and when exposed to other Christian groups they might react how you do. But trust me, all Christians will have their downfall and you’ll see this as you explore. There’s nowhere that does it perfect. Just one example of this is your pointing out about the ministry being talked about as the best. Most churches do this about certain ministries, their pastor, or something similar. It’s human nature. You’re allowed to share anything in the meetings even if it isn’t from the morning revival, but once again, the human nature side of certain people might come out. “Oh, she’s not mature enough”, “oh she doesn’t know the best”, etc. I don’t even read the morning revival and never have once. I’m sorry to say this but you’ve probably over-responded to what your eyes have been opened to. You’re feeling real stuff but those things should prompt you to urge some change among your fellow Christians. And some of what you said isn’t really what’s happening on a wide scale, it happens with certain people in certain areas. I hope you can come to a more balanced view.
From 3-12 grade I attended a private Nazarene school. I have attended several christian churches outside of LSM. I agree that yes, most churches push the agenda of them having the right message. What I did not see with other groups was the push back against someone who questioned their teachings. It is a massive red flag when you start to question the people in charge and get called “evil, or back slide.” Their approach to getting new believers into their group is very very sly. I would be very careful with how much you are involved with them. I remember a new guy from campus once coming into the meetings. He knew the Bible better than most of the believers who were in the group a long time. He would sit and try and understand where the church was coming from, and they would have debates with him for hours trying to make him understand their perspective. Looking back on it now, he should’ve left when he had the chance. He was right to second guess these teachings. Now, he’s deep into the group and not even the same person. The transition from first entering the group to who you’ll become if you stay, is astonishing. There’s a reason I keep getting emails from family members of people in the group desperately pleading for help to get their children out. Being part of this group isn’t helping people/families. It’s destroying them.
@@Standing4TheTruth there is nothing wrong with trying to convince someone of your understanding of what the Bible is saying. I have brought up differences and of course they try to talk to me about it, but Ive never been harrassed or felt negative after. In fact, with one experience, someone complimented me for questioning, relating it back to the verses about searching the Bible for what people say. We should all be open to that and there is nothing crazy with LSM's understanding of the Bible. The one thing that I have the biggest problem (personally) with is outter darkness, but even that is not something to divide over. Can I ask you what change occurred in them that was so bad?
I would just suggest reading through all the comments on my videos.. that may help give you a clearer understanding that I’m not the only one who feels this way and has experienced these things.💙
@@Standing4TheTruth I’m not saying you didn’t! I experienced some of the stuff you said in the videos, so I understand. But I still feel like most of these things aren’t ground for dividing and are things that just need to be worked through. Also, for a lot of people in the comments, their experience is just par for the course when it comes to human interaction and doesn’t reflect everyone who meets in the recovery. It more-so reflects the fallen nature of man in general. I also think it’s not right for people to be freaking out about someone having passionate touches with God and being moved to do something like going to the Full Time Training. It’s a great thing for someone to go that all in for God. It’s normal for Christians to have an awakening when they get around other Christians who love God a lot. And yes, it will change them.
I enjoy the local church life even though I live in a locality where there isn't a local church. The local church brings out many talented song writers such as Howard Higashi, Melody of Lilies, Vessels of Mercy, NYCYPCD. In 1975 I bought audio tapes on songs recorded verbatim from the KJV of the Bible. That's how I learn Psalms through the songs. Then they put out songs taken from the book of Isaiah. Just by singing them you learn the Bible. The children's songs are all quoted from the Bible. It's very helpful and fun in learning the Bible from songs. The local church is certainly full of children and adults' songs. Howard Higashi wrote many songs including 22 pieces of the Song of Songs. If anyone doesn't like the intensity of the church life, they certainly would enjoy singing the many songs there are in the recovery. The Life-studies of the Bible helped me tremendously to understand the Bible. It lays a solid foundation in my pursue of God, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. I go to a church (it can be any church) and what I find there is the shallow understanding of the Bible. There is no help from anyone in how to read God's word. I use the Recovery Version of the Bible but I also use KJV and I look up other versions of the Bible as well. I understand why some young people are discouraged by the pressure in the church life. They have to learn such a lot in a short time. I have been with the recovery church for a long, long time, since 1969. Even though I did not practically live the church life I was abundantly supplied through mail, audio tapes, video tapes, books and song books. I was enriched through the years. I can testify that Witness Lee is not cultist. He loves the Lord very, very much and he understands that the church is the body, the bride of Christ. Christ loves the church and gave Himself for her that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of the water in the word. That He might present her to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish. We are fitly called saints in the Bible. If we can call each other saints, we know we live a sanctified life as we ought.
Part of the world system right now is to raise up kids who cannot deal with facts, and have to have their emotions artificially supported. Rather than dealing with the self & soul-life, flesh. Rather than experiencing Christ as our Rock & “hiding place.”
I never had any issues here at all. The people were always great to this day 15 years later like family. I came and went as i pleased and never did a 2 year training or anything like that. Witness Lee and Watchman Nee some OGs. Im sorry for everyones bad experiences. Unplug yourself from The Matrix. 🙏
it’s not a must to only read watchman nee and witness lee book. Is that we use their revelation to gain more of Christ. And it’s not that we must be married to the people inside our community, is that the people inside our community is much safer because both of us will have the same vision( especially those who had two year training ). They did not force us , matter fact you can make any friends outside the church but as a devout christian it will result in you preaching the gospel to them.😅
Sorry for your experience. I was saved twice by the brothers and sisters in my local church and I can testify they are not what you described. I was saved as an adult.
I met with The Lord’s Recovery for nearly ten years, and I can testify that they are what she’s described. There are hundreds of others who can testify to the same and more.
Every place you meet as a Christian will have something you dont like. I grew up Catholic until i was 14 my mom kept discussing with me to go to a Hispanic Church. Because of her prayers I accepted God into my life and since love God. I didn't meet this church untill I was 22. They really do have high truths in the Bible that no other pastor has seen. They do try to emphasize to pray over the word and to "exercise your Spirit". But what got me to be in this church is the truths!!. I think Christian in general should not push their kids do so many things. All the churches you go to have something you don't like, the question is are you growing in your relationship with God, or are you stuck in your own opinions
Please refrain from statement like this. You need to tell this to the elders who discourages people from pursing certain spiritual growth. She never said she’s going to abandon her faith neither. Those who left are only trusting the Lord not the church. Think about those who left before you say anything next time.
They err on doctrine of Trinity and consider Witness Lee as the minister of the age something like an apostle... they say Paul was an apostle of his age and in this age it is Witness Lee
I grew up in a Christian family and attended church since I was a child and throughout my life, I went to many different churches and even went to a Bible School in California. So I feel I possess a level of understanding and credibility about my faith. During my freshman year at university, I attended a meeting and I was SHOCKED, SURPRISED and even STUNNED at how much they loved Jesus Christ. All they desired was to live a Christian life fully based on the Bible. My love for the Lord and my understanding of the Bible has grown day by day. I don't live in an area where there is this church, (I really wish I did) but when I do attend a meeting, it is very enjoyable.
I did not hear specifics from you. I met for 30 years. Great people, not all, but most are very spiritual and just fine humans. I stopped meeting on my own accord. You seem to twist things.
You don't need to know such things to hear her testimony. You either accept it or you don't, and you've made it clear that you don't. There's absolutely no point in you digging for her personal information.
No one is perfect and the church life is not perfect but what you describe is not my experience at all speak about the vision of Gods New Testament economy.
@aidey Just bc it’s not your personal experience, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Let me make this extremely easy for you to understand. Just because you weren’t in the towers when 9/11 happened, doesn’t mean that it never happened. Same goes for the church life experience.
