Colegu' ma bucur ca esti intreg ! Felicitari pt reflex ul de a trage rezerva si multumesc pt ca ai impartasit cu noi experienta ! Cand te calmezi sper sa ai capacitatea de a analiza tot si poate sa impartasesti si cu noi impresiile tale ! Se putea face altceva ? Sa controlezi spirala ? Sa strangi toata aripa la tine ? etc !
Salut si merci de gandurile bune, o sa fac o analiza tehnica cu siguranta... pana atunci, din primele impresii imi ies urmatoarele: Concluzia 1 si cea mai importanta si cea care m-a salvat - cand nu mai stii ce sa faci si nu mai ai control - arunca rezerva. Trebuie sa fii hotarat, iei decizia si actionezi. Eu recunosc ca inca nu am pregătirea si experienta necesară pentru autorotatie, autorotatia putea fi scoasă... la nivel teoretic știam ceva... dar la inaltimea aia si cu nesiguranța ca pot gestiona si practic, am decis varianta mai sigura, rezerva. Aveam circa 100m cand am aruncat-o... probabil ca daca eram foarte sigur pe mine si as fi exersat autorotatia anterior as fi avut sansa sa o scot cu toate ca eram foarte jos... as zice riscant de jos.... poate aveam o singura incercare, dar daca nu-mi iesea era nasol. Concluzia 2... cu toate ca am avut intentia sa adun aripa, am incercat ceva apoi am renuntat, am abandonat lupta... nu m-am gandit ca are atata importanță si rau am facut. Asta a facut diferenta intre a pleca de acolo doar cu sperietura sau a pleca accidentat, cum s-a intamplat... m-am lovit destul de rău, am dat de pamant cu 6m/s. Rezerva e proiectata sa parasuteze vertical spre sol, nu in deriva data de aripa deschisa, care ii modifica/reduce suprafata rezervei. Abia acum am inteles importanta unui lucru pe care-l consideram oarecum trivial... ceea ce stiam eu cu "daca poti, aduna aripa", de fapt e "fă totul ca sa aduni aripa"... chiar face diferenta.
@@CristiUrsuI love you very much man. I'm still ground handling and I'm trying to learn everything I can to do math equations and get psyched up by watching. I ran through this over and over. Every time it goes bad I jump all the way out of my chair almost to the side like I'm leaning right there in the pilot chair with you and I'm actually getting anxiety I'm psyched up I'm trying to live it over. Then I go through and I scream "pull the a lines." Over and over. My theory is based on a video I saw where a guy collapsed the a lines apparently and the wing made itself into a shape like a bra and just dragged instead of trying to fly and have lift. I have an absalon 9 and I think my reserve parachute is too small if I ever get enough money I would like to buy a bigger one.
@markmcgoveran6811 my reserve is big, it's a 140kg where my load is 122kg. The thing I explained in other comments was that I knew the fact that I have to pull the wing towards me and you can use any lines preferably a C or a brake... but I didn't think it's such a mandatory procedure, I thought I can get away without doing it. Now I've learned it's critical to do it... having the wing pulling against the rescue made the rescue using 70% of it's projected load... which took the descent rate to 6m/s instead of less than 5m/s. A "small" difference that resulted in hurting my back...
@johngregory7393 The range was ok, I had a 15% less load and it was supposed to be fine... unless the extra speed I got by not pulling the wing towards me...
Definitely an SIV course is needed. Stopping the rotation is the first thing you learn. I think everything you did made that worse. Nice reserve throw though. A good call. I must admit I forgot to kill the glider when I did a practice reserve throw on an SIV until the instructor told me to. Pulling the B's worked for me.
It just happened too fast... I can't say I did something to make it worse, I just did nothing... out of surprise and inexperience. The only thing I did right was the throw, which I practised several times at the yearly throwing event organised by my former instructor (God bless him!) Otherwise, yes... an SIV is mandatory, now I'm convinced! 😅
@@CristiUrsu You did quite a lot. Most of it was probably accidental. But for sure not stopping the rotation was the big problem. Once you have done a few SIV courses it will be obvious where it all went wrong. Easy to say sitting in an armchair I admit ;o)
@PhilippeLarcher I haven't realised if I necessarily pulled... the brake was loose anyway... When I let the brake away to get to the reserve, I noticed it remained loose...
@@CristiUrsu if you look on the slow mo there is more right than left pulled while pulling a lot of left was the exit as soon as I noticed the cravatte
Thanks for sharing the video!! Everyone can learn from videos like that, so thanks! Please don't make bad comments about he should have done an SIV. That doesn't help anybody after the accident.
You're welcome. That's the idea to learn from it. I will definitely go to SIV to be better prepared next time. So far, the rescue throwing practice I have attended several times with my former instructor has saved my life.
Lucky that you walked away from that one. I deployed mine and couldn't pull my glider in on time, today I wish I didn't deploy my reserve at all as it turned me into a paraplegic. It is very important to cut away or pull in your paraglider after deploying your reserve, letting the wind pull it like that removes its effectivity!
I didn't know it's that important and now I've learned it the hard way... I used to think it's just a trivial thing to do killing the wing... "you do it if you can" kind of thing... You see I tried something and I gave up... I was so wrong. It is mandatory to kill the wing, it makes the difference between walking away and getting injured as I also did. Even though I walked on my feet, I got pretty well shaken up and with quite a serious pain in my back.
@@CristiUrsu yep, also learned the hard way. It’s good to carry a hook knife on your cockpit, if you are unable to pull in the wing you can use it to cut the A-lines offcourse, but that’s if time permits. It was a good action to get your legs out of the harness, your legs helped absorb a lot of the impact; I couldn’t get mine out and that too contributed to my injury. Thank your for sharing your video, I wish you many good and safe flights in the future!
@@CristiUrsuI'm only a student pilot learning to ground handle and epsilon 9. I saw one person who pulled the a lines on the regular wing and the regular wing collapsed and made kind of a big thing to help slow things down instead of fly to the ground.
@markmcgoveran6811 I'm not so sure about inducing a frontal collapse in such conditions... In regard of your ground handling practice, trust me it's the best thing you can do for yourself in preparing to be a good pilot, once you master ground handling you get to know the wing behaviour which is critical in-flight and helps you progress better and faster. I admit it might be a bit frustrating as you wish to get to fly as soon as possible instead of staying on the ground longer... but you'll thank yourself later 👍
Mă bucur că ești bine. Trebuia să se întâmple și asta. Bine că ai reacționat fără ezitare. Bravo! De-asta e făcută rezerva. Eu azi am aterizat fix intr-o baltă, toată sufrageria mi-e o aripă. După ce te văzui pe tine, nu mă mai plâng.
Según veo yo, y desde mi humilde experiencia, el problema viene porque al chocar el lado izquierdo de la vela con la térmica como si fuera una pared, en el video se ve que frenas casi a tope ese lado izquierdo, (quizás por ponerte nervioso, lo cual es comprensible), provocando que el lado izquierdo se retrase aun mas respecto del lado derecho, lo que llevó irremediablemente al colapso y la corbata de ese lado derecho y al inicio de la autorrotación, cuando en realidad no deberías haber tocado ese freno, (ni tan siquiera el derecho), y la vela sola se habría estabilizado. Por lo demás, muy bien tirado el reserva y gracias por el video. Todos aprendemos. La importancia de recoger la vela cuando hemos sacado el reserva, sacar las piernas del arnés antes de tocar tierra, y lanzar el reserva fuerte y lejos preferentemente hacia arriba. Gracias amigo, y buenos vuelos desde España
Hello! Definitely don’t underestimate your back injury. Three months ago, I took a negative turn just above some trees. I crashed into them. After the impact, my back hurt “only” mildly. To be safe, I packed my parachute, got in the car, and drove 130 km to the hospital for an X-ray. The diagnosis? A massive compression fracture of the L1 vertebra. The surgical outcome: four 10 cm titanium screws and two 15 cm rods. I’ve been lying motionless in bed for three months. I also have a video of the accident on RU-vid.
I'm really sorry for your injury and the reality is that you never know... In my case I was lucky, just came back from the ER, I only have a contusion and nothing on the spine. In a few more days I should be fine... and God, I can't wait to be flying again!
Good that nothing more happend and you come back save to the ground. One thing, what is important maybe. Take the brakes in another way. One turn around the hand and it is more sensibel... Maybe that helps sometimes to feel what happens in the air...
Bravooo! Felicitări! 🎉 Te-ai salvat. Este tot ce contează. Restul analizezi tu si faci mai bine. Mă bucur mult că ești bine și că ai spart gheața cu rezerva și nu capul. Abia aștept să povestim la bere! Fac cinste! La SIV o sa înveți cum sa ieși din situația asta fără să fie nevoie să deschizi rezerva.
Merci Alex, eu ce sa zic cu SIVul, clar trebuie... totusi decizia mea o consider corecta Totul a inceput la 350m AGL, rezerva am aruncat-o pe la 100m... decizie ca la manual
content que tu aille bien je pense qu' un S I V est absolument nécessaire, tu n a pas piloté ton aile, aucun contre aucune réactions , je pense tu aurais pu éviter l autorotation avec un simple contre sellette et commande , ce qu' il y a de positif c est que lorsque l autorotation était engagée tu as la bonne réaction pour sortir le secours, mais a l avenir je pense qu' une meilleurs prise des commandes t aiderai anticiper les fermetures bon vol
Je suis d'accord! Big cravat! Maybe too big to spin it out - I think I would stall it as soon as I had the wing under control. But you could slightly stall it when exiting the rotation anyway and I think it would have mostly come out. Sorry - my French is not good - but I can read and understand your post.
SIV is absolutely mandatory, I know now... On the other side, don't judge me too hard, I have never practiced autorotation, I knew the theory but I considered I don't want to risk trying, especially given the low height... the same for the stall, too low altitude. Given my experience, I did the most I could to save my life
@@CristiUrsu Not judging - we don't know what we don't know until we learn it. Same for all of us. I flew a high B before I'd done SIV and realise how risky that was now. Even practicing autorotations on SIV is different to a real life cravat that pulls you in hard. One the size and shape you had will require a lot more brake pressure to stop it than a simulated one. I was just adding info for what could be done with training - quite a bit of training probably - i.e. more than one SIV.
@7up-weee thanks! I am though curious what is the perception of the height on the video... even now thinking back, it was not much room to work it out, even having the skills... the collapse happened at 350m agl and deployment at about 100m agl For sure with my skills, throwing was the safest way.
Could you give the model of the Ozone wing ? May be it was going too fast, but why do you still apply break on the right side, while you should have done the reverse to try to stop the rotation ? And after throwing the rescue, to kill the wing, maybe better to apply a lot of break by doing a lot of turns with the handles on both sides instead of trying to pull all lines in only one side. But probably easier to say, than to apply in a real incident. Anyway thank you to share as it gives an idea on how it could go wrong rapidly.
It's a Rush 6 xl 2022 on 130h checked and trimmed at 110h The short answer to all questions... now I know everything that I didn't do or did wrong... the lack of experience and things happened too fast.
@@jirisilhan3094 comments like yours are garbage… it could also be said that 95% of people moving to a high b are not suitable.. a cravated spiral dive isn’t something you know how to deal with without experiencing it or doing an siv with an a instructor that goes through the process of simulating this event even then this is the wild so this guy did better then most he through the reserve very well and knows now that he needs to stop rotations and needs to kill his wing on a reserve decent. We aren’t perfect pilots stop trolling
I'm glad you're (relatively) unhurt. Honestly you did everything you could, that collapse was super sudden. The only think you should have done more is pulling the wing in..... but with the time you had, even if you had tried hard, you probably wouldn't have been able to drag it in... If you have back pain, please get yourself checked - you may have compression fracture which requires rest (this is important). Take care!
Thank you for your words, that was exactly what I have said in an earlier post in romanian. I know I could have done more but based on my autorotation lack of experience and the limited hight I have proceeded correctly. My regret is that I haven't fought enough to kill the wing. The rest is history... I will recover, I lived to tell the story :)
@igorbyrski every wing can get a nasty cravat, and i think the chance is rather proportional with the size of the collapse than the wing certification. The other discussion is the behaviour of the wing in such conditions, which is indeed related to the certification.
@@igorbyrski I think the only wings that are the least likely to get bad cravattes are A rated wings (and NOT "high" A wings). I was surprised at how much more likely my low B is to cravatte compared to my A. But the reality is a higher aspect ratio means it's more likely to happen and be worse when it does.
@@DrAElemayo Fly, Observe, Fix. Has to be done this way. You can't do any fixing of your problems if you don't observe/process what is wrong with your wing. You can't do observing/processing if you don't give yourself time with flying your wing. Maybe you misunderstood me. EDIT: Changed some wording to be more accurate. So basically: he never did any input on the open side that was still flying. He was only focusing on fixing the problem.
Can somebody explain what went wrong here. Maybe its just the angel but it seems he pulled left side break very hard while in sink and then the wing seems to colaps from the left side,
The initial collapse happened on the right side, and it was massive, hence the solid cravat on the right. What happened there I still can't explain... the air was calm, I was in a mild sink, and I had a tail wind. When collapse happened, I had the feeling of hitting a wall. One agreed idea is that I hit a sharp thermal with the left side of the wing while the right side was still in the sink, therefore the collapse. I am not so sure though, I've been in such conditions and I know what it should feel, I took collapses from half wing in sink before but it eas never so sudden, in calm air... it usually warns before by getting in active air, it was not the case here. It was too violent and too suddenly 😔 Another agreed Idea is about a possible dust devil. Who knows... It would be interesting to see if anyone experienced anything similar...
@@CristiUrsu I dont mean this in any condecending way, and i am very happy that you share this so i can learn from it. but from my observation the collapse started on the left. You can see you pull the brake on the left very strong, then the wing collapses and you hand just falls down as the wing unloads on the left. You also fall initially to the left side
@quasimoto4424 I'm honestly telling you I have no idea what happened and how it started... my feeling was at second 0 that I hit a wall, and I was pulled hard upwards
@@quasimoto4424you are right. First there was collapse on the left. He weightshifted to the right and stalled the right side briefly. Once he let go it cravatted and then he didnt brake the rotation. Nice throw but no wing de-power. Very lucky..
I don't remember exactly but what I can see on the slow motion video is that I've lost presure in the left brake, it was not me pulling that hard on the left brake but more like subconsciously trying to mantain the pressure. What is weird is that it only took a split of a second on the left side then it all collapsed on the right side... Very weird behaviour and some of my friends were saying it was probably a dust devil.
Pfiu.. Zici ca îți poarta ghinion lucrurile noi. Când ți-ai luat vario nou ai avut aterizare nașpa, acum cu seleta noua ai aruncat rezerva. Sper ca ești ok. "Tabla" se repara, noi sa fim sănătoși.
@@bpunct asta a fost mereu dilema mea... il voi gasi la nevoie? Ei bine, ai timpul necesar sa iei si decizia si sa si arunci... trebuie sa fii hotatat.
Am pățit și eu ceva asemănător dar nu a fost cazul de aruncat rezerva,oricum m-a dat cu picioarele în sus și pe mine ...Bine că ai scăpat cu bine din toată nebunia asta.
Este ultima găselniță de la woody valley, e un sistem de stabilizare a seletei. Cand faci tranzitie poti activa sistemul si seleta devine mai țeapana, raspunde mai greu la weightshift si zborul e mai stabil. Inca n-am testat, dar cam asta e rolul.
When I saw how you hold your brakes, I immediately knew something is going to happen... Don't hold your brakes like that, you just feel nothing of the wing and additionally you have 20 cm less of brake authority.
Well I don't necessarily agree... I got used this way and I have good control and feedback with my hands lower than the other holds. Otherwise there it is no risk than the hand through the loop when you need to release rhe brake and quickly grab for the rescue... Sometimes I use half wrap in some situations but this way I don't get a good glide so I'm not using it in transitions. There are 3 types of holds and all are accepted, all with advantages and disadvantages and this I use is not the reason I got into trouble.
@@CristiUrsu Thousands of pilots and hundreds of SIV instructors can prove you wrong. This is just pure physics and physiology - you have 20 cm less brake authority and you feel a lot less with such a hands position. If you don't believe me, a random guy from RU-vid, ask the experienced people you trust.
@@dymanoid you're not quite a random guy... I'm watching you for quite some time 😉 You're right about the authority and the 20cm... what I say is not the reason of the incident... of course holding it differently may have helped a lot, considering I have reacted properly and not freezing...
Flying on full bar? With brakes instead of back-risers? I dont think that is recomended. It makes the wing curve to much from front too back and can break the airstream. Glad you are OK. (Show the video to your siv-instructor he/she will probably give a good analyze)
Well, actually, no... I was not on the bar, you can see the red mesh cover on the brummels as they are in the top position. It's funny 'cause I'm not that inexperienced to fly on bar with brakes... although I admit I used to do it years ago until nature told me not to... 😀
@@CristiUrsu lasă bine că ești tu "in one piece", nu mashed potato :). Te îmbrățișez cu drag, pliază rezerva la Feri, îndreaptă spatele și hai la zbor 🤗
@@CristiUrsu Inteleg perfect, acum vreo 3 ani mergeam la un client si m-am rasturnat cu masina intr-o curba. Dupa ce am iesit intreg, ajutat de mai multi care oprisera, primul lucru care l-am facut a fost sa il sun sa-i zic ca mai intarzii juma de ora :) Bine ca esti pe picioare, asta conteaza.
