3D Printed Speakers Part 1: Breaking the $38,000 3D Printer ... Again? 

For a $38000 printer I am once again underwhelmed by its performance and engineering

The more I see this printer featured the less I think of the company that made it. It's a $38k PoS.

That printer really doesnt seem to live up to its price tag. Big doesnt matter if the quality is awful.

The first forty years of childhood are the most difficult in a man's life.

This seems like a good project to try on that new Creality belt printer. Especially given the size of the pieces.

Anyone else thinking, the Speaker will look like one of the tentacles from _Day of the Tentacle?_

Props to Simon for the design as it looks phenomenal! Biggest problems I had with my Sigmax and Ultimakers were with the glass bed. No matter what I used, there was always the worry of PLA prints detaching, more so on the Sigmax because of the bed size. In the end, I retrofitted PEI sheet to the Ultimakers and printbite sheet to the Sigmax which took 80% of failures away straight off the bat. The Sigmax still needed extra help with magigoo or 3dgloop, but that was more to do with the crappy bed heating system causing warping. So, TLDR, have you thought of adding some PEI sheets to the glass? Great video, looking forward to the next parts 👍

Hey Joel, Great job dude! I feel kinda guilty my design is proving to be such a challenge! I wonder what temp the bed was under the print when actively heated. Obviously the part insulates the bed pretty well so must be higher than the set temp.

Nice work, Joel! You have an exceedingly large amount of patience and perseverance. I appreciate all those supplying equipment, supplies and designs fir you...and I hope they are paying attention. You are doing all the dirty work! Happy New Year to you and your family.

Larger objects exert more peel force so try larger brims? When I'm printing delta effector fisheyes/assemblies in PETG I normally use 25mm brims and they're way smaller than that speaker base. :)

Joel, breaker of expensive 3D printers. :D

For the prototyping job I was doing, I took an Ender 5 Plus and modified it to print fast and large. Super volcano is a must have. One of the biggest things I learned is that the Hemera is somewhat ill suited for the job. It doesn't dissipate enough heat from the combination of the hot end heat and the stresses we put the motor through and the heat break is somewhat fragile (when printing such thick lines that can sometimes blob up and grab the nozzle) and breaks exactly like how yours broke. Then later I redesigned it to use the classic E3D V6 because we can use the titanium heat break for additional durability and rigidity. We also set it up so it's a bowden setup similar to the original Ender 5 plus, only it's using a Bondtech for extrusion power. Having the Bondtech anchored to the frame pulling the filament up into the bowden where it feeds into the extruder came with the benefit of being able to use 25k spools right off the spool since the direct drive system actually had the issue that it lifted the gantry (and sometimes the whole machine) and caused gaps in the print with anything more than 10k due to the newtonian physics of the mass being at rest and wanting to stay at rest. We can use up to a 1.4 mm nozzle, but we get better results with 1.0 or 1.2mm nozzles. Some tips for the warping issue: *It definitely helps to have an enclosure for ambient temperature. Would probably help to have a heater blowing inside the enclosure kind of like what you use on the peopoly resin machines. Draftyness was our number one source of failures when we were starting out. *Enclosure systems can sometimes cause issues with the cold end getting too hot. I suspect a water cooled cold end system would actually be ideal, but we haven't invested the budget into testing an option like that. *Lower volume tends to warp less. Either through reduced speed or thinner layer lines. *Brims definitely help and don't be afraid to make them oversized. Something I thought of but haven't tried yet is to make the brim layers more than one layer for additional rigidity, but that would also make the brim removal more difficult. Hmm... Maybe I should suggest my boss get a sawsall for our printer farm. *I haven't used Magigoo, but Matterhacker's Stick Stick is great. Makes it harder to release when done printing unfortunately. Only lost chunks of the glass bed twice (so far) with a couple hundred prints. For some of our prints, I've actually seen the glass bed bend up because of the forces the model places on it while warping. For context: we're printing mostly in PETG which tends to warp slightly more than PLA and the higher temperatures required present additional issues.

Absolutely love your channel for the great things you do (and the great jokes you tell)! I bought a Prusa MK3S off of many opinions from the web, you being one of the main sources! I love it and haven’t looked back to my buggy Tevo Tarantula since. Thanks for being so real and straightforward. Keep up the great work and high five!

That $38,000 printer is just FULL of jarring surprises.

Dude, I never thought about how rough it would be to do printing in such a large format in such a cold place

Um, yes - one word - STL's!!!!!!! Thanks, Joel and Happy New Year!

I learned it's actually cheaper to buy decent speakers. Thank you!

That printer seems to have huge issues with the bed adhesion and temperature. It seems tha the glass is too weak heat conductor to spread the temperature evenly on the bed. I'd test it by printing a part in which I'd be able to put a thermocouple to monitor the actual temperature under the printed object. That black mark at the centre of the bed suggests that the bed is scorching hot there.

I’ve found that even with pla, my prints benefit from me using my (removable) enclosure. I was having warping & lifting issues on a large print and thought I would try it ... worked great.

I was having a similar problem printing a Ukulele in my apartment (next to the windows). After the first few layers were done I hot glued the brim to the bed and then it printed without a problem (3rd attempt).

Joel, way to keep showing us the latest innovations in 3D printing (I'm not talking about the printer). Thanks. I can't wait to see and hear the finished speakers. It's really funny that at the close of 2020 that supersized printer has you using Magicgoo and a bush hack for the filament run out. For $38k, I would rather build 18 more RailCores :-) That printer is a p.o.s. - you are a patient man. (or at least well compensated ;-) Happy New Year!

It's really big, awesome🔥😍👍

To prevent cracking the bottom on big prints, let the bed and part cool down to ambient temperature when the print is finished.. The bed and the plastic have a different co-efficient of expansion and as it cools the part should release automagically.

Awwwww. Well, it's - obviously - going to be a steep learning curve. But, we've got faith in you Joel! Thanks man.

Hey, wait! I just finished making my own independent 3d printed speakers yesterday. Crazy coincidence of projects lol :)

glue and brim my dude , and happy new year :)

Use from Gernier Fructies the full control hairspray. It is like superglue to the glass bed. ABS,PLA,PETG and ASA are often so stuck on that only once the glass reaches temp below 20C it releases. So I put the piece into a freezer for 3-5min and it comes off without any warping and perfect condition and also does not damage the tempered glass.

Hey Joel, indoor grow tents come in a variety of different sizes and are great ways to create warm clean rooms. I work in the film industry and travel my printers and CNC machines around the country and the tents allow me to deal with cold warehouses and almost any temperature situation.

Glue stick 🏒 and glass have always been a great combo for me. I even tried vision minors nano polymer and it worked for pla but not polycarb, so cleaned the glass and back to the old glue stick I went and like magic ✨😅✨ it worked

Awesome. Great video as always. Maybe need to hook up a couple mosaic palette 2 pros to that?

Can you print with a brim and lower your bed temp? I was having issues with curling on large prints and a brim and printing at 60 degrees worked great for me.

I would make a small shelter out of 1.5" 4ft x 8ft foam, reasonably priced and can stack up foam when not using.

Joel, We have had one of these printers for a few years now. You didn't say what temp your garage was but we run ours at 74 degrees room temp. We also use Aquanet on the bed. The prints stick most of the time and self release when cool. I would use a much larger brim in your case. And don't feel bad we have lost a few nozzles this way. We replaced the stock extruder with a super volcano hotend and a Bondtech extruder.

One thing that's helped me a lot with lifting is disabling the fan for the first 5 or so layers, not sure if you do that already

for manual filament runout detection i use a brass bell with a piece of string attached loosely to the filament, the filament passes the last hard point, the bell falls, i either wait about 5 min so the filament touches my direct drive extruder, or swop the filament for a fresh spool/ next piece of leftover filament

Is there a reason not to put the filament sensor on top of the extruder motor, like a Prusa and others ?

Would the foam board insulation work as a cheaper alternative to getting a shed at the home improvement store?

Hey, I've run into issues printing big as well. I had some serious lifting issues. I got some overture build surfaces and the part stuck way to well. It took 5-15min to get the prints off and not a whole lot of warping.

I know that lift... I had a (much smaller) print going that was just 7h. It looked great... until I removed it and found out that it had lifted, and it too had alignment holes and didn't fit... so I had to do the print over. Now to wait for part 2.

Have you tried the vision miner adhesive on it

You are kept very helpful share about subwoofer, it is also demantable post for who want to upgrade their old subwoofer. Thanks for the post.

I have been working on ideas for 3D printing speaker enclosures as well, but the biggest issue is making sure the prints are dense enough to control enclosure resonances. If I saw the thickness of yours clear enough, I have concerns the walls are not thick enough and will negatively affect the sound. Try knocking on the side of it and listen for "ringing" or a dull thud sound. I look forward to seeing how yours turn out.

interesting to see how these speakers turn out. Will the bass just vibrate them to pieces? I'm old school. A lot easier just to make them out of wood.

great vid Joel, was wondering when more big printer and big prints would happen.

Between the Christmas eve giveaway, & all the hype around Magigoo, I just got done placing an order for a bottle of it. HOPEFULLY it'll be a gooder alternative to the hairspray I've been using to adhere prints to my glass build plate!

Yes, I´m one of the interested in the STL files, hope Simon release them.

I'm thinking buildtak or PEI or other surface to help maintain the adhesion. And as others suggested also add a very large multi-layer skirt - that's my favorite weapon against warping or lifting.

Some tips from someone who runs a 4'x6' bed. No heat bed, spray super 77, we use a .65 first layer height for a .8 nozzle. To release print spray windex on glue around edges of part.

Hey Joel, I was thinking, how great would a flexible steel sheet with PEI perform? Yes, the sheet would be a bit heavier, but it can work...

You need to try some floortex adhesive vinyl, i use it in my cr10 after discovering it in the signage industry.

I actually would try lower temp on bed in combination with some kind of adhesive solution on the bed. Thx Joel for all the entertaining content you push out! Merry Christmas!

Did making additional hollow support below it help for cooling?

So the warping is probably due to tempature difference between the centre and the outer parts of the print. Perhaps there is a way to start the print on 4 legs going to the middle at 45° angle? Or something else that would lift the middle part from the bed to prevent heat buildup?

I'd try a couple mm thick coating of PVA on the bed as that's always worked really well for me for a print surface when using PLA. A quick wipe down with with isopropyl alcohol before prints seems to give it a good grip, but allow it to release once the print has cooled. Not sure if that would peel off with the print in an instance like this though since the bed itself is glass.

I'm about to try that ZillaGrip bed adhesions you mentioned once before. Not having to heat the bed might be ideal for a bed this size. I'm to try a four day print with ABS without an enclosure on my cr10s Pro.

What about building a plywood structure around the thing and sticking a space heater (or two) in it to keep the area warm?

Would love to see the STL on this when/if Simon releases them.

Delayed shutoff on sensor / use estimated time to run most of roll.

i think i know the problem of the heatbed/lifting of the bed: the sensor of the heatbed is only in one position, a position where noting is printed ontop, this leads to quicker cooling everywhere but the printed part -> the bed heats more and the sensor is thinking that everithing is good. BUT: the heat under the printed part raises up and up, way over what you want on the spot where the object sits you could cover the rest of the open/uncovered bed under some insulation (sheet of foam?) sry for bad english, i only want to help :(

I would try larger brim to stick it to the bed. I think for these large prints, a patterned brim would be useful. Just imagine you have a large cross (X) with like 20 cm arms as a brim instead of the full offset of the base of the print. I do not know any slicer to do that.

Large spring steel print bed like BuildTak is the only way I see to fix the heat issue. The area under the print is essentially insulated and it would take along time for that area to cool off. Not to mention the differential of temperature on the glass.

What about a grill mat? 🤔 Just a thought...good luck buddy

I've been using NPA for months on glas for PLA/PETG

Hi =) I have a question, why don't you use draft shield for the first 5 or 10 cm to keep your print on the bed? It work on small printer with bad adhesion for petg so it's possibly an idea for you I think. It's an experimental cura option if you search ;).

80c sounds a little high for pla. 55c is the sweet spot for pla on my printer. Any more or less I get a lot of adhesion issues.

Use some of that red Navy duct tape you got to hold down the brims

That "failed print" front piece looks awesome on the speaker!!! Amazing mistake!! LoL

should try to get your hands on the print bed material used on the Creality CR-30 and see if that works on the big printer

Why is the filament sensor 6 miles away from the hotend?

I was having curling issues like crazy on my larger prints on my CR-10 v2 and I solved it by making the brim larger proportional to the print. I always did a brim of 2-4 lines but I never gave it any thought to increase it as my print increase. No matter what, the air around the print will cool the outside of the print faster than the inside, as you really saw on that print. The only way to fight this is by magic goo or probably, just a larger brim. And make sure that brim layer is on the thinner side, so adhesion is max.

For PLA I've used a painter's tape (just usual white good tape) + Erich Krausse PVA glue (stick). Worked very good usually. Maybe for such projects you need that. Or check your build plate heating consistency. I think it may be an issue there.

Hexibass has a nice 3d printed subwoofer.

Ok, so I am far from a 3D print expert, but is it possible to weld the end of one role of filament to the start of another? I don't know how to implement this, but I have seen industrial braiding machines tie the end of one bobbin of string to the start of another.

When I have a lifting problem I look for drafts moving past the part if that is not the problem the next thing I try is to use a Raft big enough so that the if the part starts to lift it does not affect the part along with some temp adjustment is needed but usually with a bit of futzing I can get most of my prints to stick so hang in there

Hey Joel, I have the 3DP 1000. I keep it in a dedicated shed in my backyard and it keeps it nice and toasty in there and that helps alot with bed adhesion. Any suggestions on upgrading the control board ? I'm happy with the steppers and the mechanics , I'm struggling with it in the repeatability department and it sometimes has thermal run aways.

Any chance to get the STL for Simons speaker? I have a machine with a closed build area that could easily handle that type of print. I would love to print this model!

I do hope that this is a beta model of the printer - it seems to me like even just in this one video that you've uncovered a lot of opportunities for improvement: -relocated filament runout sensors -additional thermistors for monitoring the actual bed temperature -additional/redesigned structural support for the print head gantry -machine learning print failure detection (not unlike Spaghetti Detective) -multiple independent bed heaters for more consistent temperature

What would happen if you tiled some of those black coated glass sheets over the surface with some silicon thermal pads for heat transfer and adhesion? Bet they would hold prints really well without the goo. I use a 0.8mm nozzle on my ender 3 and 0.64mm layer height. Never had a curl on the black surface. Edit: I use petg mostly but pla hasnt curled either.

INTERESTING CHALLENGE. And perhaps you are attempting this for the challenge as much as for the final product, because, "Many things can be 3D printed, but not everything. And, everything that can, shouldn't." ~Swami, this may not be the best use case. Hopefully, all can agree that there are better ways to make a speaker. Also, sometimes the technology you have (and know) is the one you use. I acknowledge that there are a number of decision factors for a given situation. That said, I do have some constructive input to try to help improve the model. So, with an eye on "design for manufacture" (specifically, knowing that the technology used will be 3D printing), I will suggest a couple possible design mods to address the peeling issue: - Create a pattern of "troughs" on the bottom surface that interfaces with the bed (use 45º angled walls that come to a point at the top, while also creating a thin, flat "run" on the bottom, so no bridging will occur, and no supports will be necessary - I'd supply a pic for clarification, but that's not supported in RU-vid comments, though I guess I can create a link; will do, if necessary). The idea is to minimize the large, continuous surface area of the bottom. BTW, I have not tried this, but am just going of principles. I've experienced this problem with peeling up, even with PLA, and it is definitely an unwanted challenge:( - Another idea is to put thin discs strategically along the perimeter (where peeling occurs, +/or where prone to occur) - then cut off in post. This should be more effective than a brim, albeit w/ a bit more effort in post, but hey, that might be the tradeoff for success! Anyhow, whatever you decide, WISHING YOU SUCCESS!:)...

You should look into a growing tent to house the printer. Easy to setup, wont take up a bunch of space like a shed would. Can be taken down easily when it is not needed also.

I actually liked that honeycomb look of the fail-printed front.

3dprintednerds, adding casted aluminium base with flexplate on?

Dumb question but why is the object your printing not clamped down to prevent the lift?

How does it manage to produce that much ringing while printing that slow?

Wow so frustrating! Those are massive stresses from the differential cooling/contraction. Definitely need a heated build chamber, then you have 2 choices: anneal as you go - build chamber at like 75C - or build chamber at say 50C, and an immediate post-print anneal in a smaller chamber with just the part at 75C. Either way, you will have to give it hours to cool slowly, so lots of insulation.

Sir If print pop-up the bed only thing I try cool down the bed this work good for me this stop forthur pop up issue.

Makes me think of Day of the Tentacle DOS game... (it is safe to Google)

I've been working with two of 3DPlatform's Series 400 machines for two years now. Have had lot's of problems, most of the issues I've been able to solve, many were due to the FHA extruder.

I found that the hotter the bed the more adhesion you have. I had a failed print 3 times at 50 degrees Celsius and I moved to 100 and that sucker was really stuck in there. I would up the Heat and always print with a brim

You can "Weld" this filament! There are pliers available on Ebay, but just buy a pair of flat long nose cheap pliers and grind a groove that is 1.75, 2.85 or 3mm. All you have to do is to put the filament end to end, squish it together as you heat it up with a heat gun, small torch, etc. Then squish it together with the pliers to get it the exact diameter you need. You could connect all those ends together...

Can you move the filament sensor? Get some large rolls of kapton tape and cover that bed. You could see about getting stick on bed plates without the spring steel and covering the center. Also, are you adding any heat in your tarp room? I doubt that machine is putting out enough heat to heat the area. Adding an over head tarp would likely help a lot.

Would the creality bed printer work for this? Or is it still too big

Just wondering, have you ever tried GeckoTek build surfaces? I have a raise3d N2 and swear by them.

How about printing some tabs for mechanical clamping after 50 layers?

Any ideas for a "cabinet" for this monster?

I thought the blue tarps was for post processing special effects...

Hey Joel, I think you should try a ground glass build surface. Since it's such a large surface only glass will probably be flat enough, unless you can auto bed level. But I think ultimately you need a texture for the PLA to grab on to. I've been wondering how to ground glass myself since I think that would make for the ultimate build surface, textured, generally flat, dense so there's good thermal mass but the only problem with glass is that it is smooth. I've considered using a compressed air tank to just fire sand at a sheet of glass to get the texture but haven't tried it yet. Maybe that's something you can try, though on a smaller scale first and maybe do a video on it to show me how to do it. 😁

Will rotating 45 degrees stop your lifting?

Here in brazil we have a word to your manually cheat fillament thing, its how we call when we do something very improvised, the word is Gambiarra hahaaaha

I would suggest lowering the bed temp but adding some projected heat. I live in Canada. Even in summer, sometimes if I leave a window open prints will fail like this. In a fit of lazy reluctance to build an enclosure, I set up an old halogen work light. All my heat problems went away. Something this big, you could also try one of those parabolic heaters. Or 2 halogen lights on either side. Not too close. Just so that you can feel heat on the print.