im so discouraged, after listening to so many car buying advice channels, that I am gonna get screwed no matter how much advice I get. I never knew how unscrupulous dealers are. I wanted a 2023 Crosstrek, but now Im giving up, just keeping my Mazda6 and moving on to other, more life enriching pursuits. Buying a car sounds like its just soul crushing. Its way to complicated if you dont wanna get shafted.
It's difficult when you're in unfamiliar territory and you're being pressured by everyone & everything around you, but just remember you ALWAYS have the ability to say no. Do your research and go in there knowing how much you want to pay. Unless they're gonna give that to you, say "no thanks" and walk out. Good luck
The fact that we need these videos to teach us how not to be cheated by car dealerships shows just how broken our system is. Won’t change much with government intervention.
No maybe because the govt is just as crooked. What will work is naming these dealerships and posting actual complaints and horror stories by customers. There is power in word of mouth. If many complain of similar things then hopefully a smart person will avoid that place or at least given some info to be weary of.
Our government and all these career politicians should had outlawed all this criminal stuff these dealerships been doing decades ago. Clearly doubt that will not happen soon, but I am having hope. They all need to be treated like the criminals that they really are. Doubt very highly none of them will not get no jail or prison time like they should. First the name of every corrupted dealership does this and a picture and name of every corrupted salesman or girl does this to, just like they do with criminals see on local news stations, then have it posted somewhere to let consumers know they are entering this place of business at their own risk of being screwed over, since politicians and government will not do nothing.
A great trick I learned from The Amazing Elizabeth over at THG's channel...When you get to the F&I office, not only negotiate the price of each "product", but whatever you decide to buy, write a separate check for. DO NOT let them roll any of their confections into your loan.
Actually, rolling any F&I product a car buyer foolishly accepts is often wisely included in the financed amount. It depends on the interest rate. For a person with good credit a low subsidized interest rate (such as 0% or .9%) is often available which makes including the F&I products in the loan a wise move. Instead of paying the cash, finance and leave the cash in an investment account. The real advice from THG is to say NO to any F&I product. All are overpriced, available elsewhere for much less money, and of dubious value.
Next time, I'll get the out the door price, and if finance wants to add stuff, I'll only say, "I'll take it only if the out the door price stays the same."
Interesting situation that I dealt with for years. My salesman and the F&I Manager were husband and wife. I purchased numerous vehicles from him/them over the years and they always knew that I would decline everything that the F & I manager would try and sell me. “NO” was my favourite word as soon as I went into the F&I office.
There's a special place for the kind of people who try to charge you more money for their greed when times are bad and you are trying to buy a used car to replace the one that finally died so you can get to work and make money to support your family. That $50 a month more they talked you into paying is a trip to the grocery store
@@chuckinhouston9952 Do you really think anyone watching these videos are being taken advantage of? Its a shame that these people exist because they are successful. I've been known to take a graphing calculator to the dealership and pretend to push buttons so I can shake my head and say the numbers don't come out right. I've sent the salesman back to get a few more hundred dollar off because gas prices were so high and the Mustang I was buying had a V8
If the finance manager LIES to you about something as simple as paying a loan off early, LEAVE. Leave immediately. Don't sign ANYTHING. Never do business with people you know to be untrustworthy. It will only hurt you. Also, look up to whom you should report them. In my state, there is a Dealer Licensing Section of the state Driver and Vehicle Licensing Bureau. They need to know about dishonest dealerships. They might not take action against a dealer for one or two reports, but they will if they get a LOT of reports.
@princess287love you have to verify if there is an early payoff fee. Never take such a loan. You can save a lot on your loan's interest by paying an extra $50 per month.
When you talk to the finance manager you tell him or her that you are paying only the agreed upon purchase price, taxes, and tags and absolutely NOTHING else. If they still insist on selling you are product you get up from your chair and leave the dealership.
@@smrtguy77777 I've found you have to be pretty resolute and keep your eyes fixed to your phone, while saying "I can get GAP coverage from my insurance company for a fraction of what you want" or "my mechanic recommends this service contract and ...WOW! It's less than half of what you want to charge me!". If the finance guy is a real jerk, beat him out of every penny you can on the interest rate and then start the refi process the next day so he gets that nice little chargeback surprise.
They pretty much laughed in our face when I told them we weren't going to pay their ~$5k market adjustment. It's a seller's market friend. EDIT: It was a ~$1,000 market adjustment. I think the final out-the-door price ended up being ~$5,000 over MSRP.
The "you have to wait 3 months to pay off the loan" is what screwed me over on the last car I purchased. I saw "no prepayment penalty" in the contract, but figured I'd be screwed somehow if I still paid off before that 3 months was up. I'm still kicking myself for that. I hate that I made that dealership some money in that 3 months.
These are great. I paid my car off in 2 years. Less than an hour after I paid it off the dealership was calling me to see why I paid the car off early. I knew why they called thanks to you guys.
If you paid off the loan after three months or so the dealer would not get a call back from the lending company. Hence the dealer would not know you paid off the loan especially within an hour of the loan payoff.
I bought a car a yr ago and bought over 9 cars in my lifetime and never have I heard about the menu or even showed. I've learn soooo much from all your vids, THANKS!
That’s because dealers are NOT required to use any menu. I’ve been in this business longer than she has been alive and have done business in 38 states. Most of what she says is reasonably well intended but, make no mistake, she is also selling you! Yes, she is selling her videos and selling her services. She is not going to do a ‘forearm close’, now known as a felony in many states, but she needs views and does stray a bit into giving her opinion as if it were federal law, but I give her at least a “B” on well intended content. Let’s see how long this factual comment is allowed to stay. 🙂
@@petedavid9946 so what should buyers know and do in order to get the best price on a vehicle? Do you have a list, blog, advice, or tips you can link or email?
You don't think the finance manager wants you looking at what he's looking at, try to go over to his side and look at his screen. He'll lose his mind before you get halfway there. I was in the business 15 years, hilarious.
I always check the value of my car before going to the dealer. I sold my mint corvette convertible to a dealer for cash , he tried to low ball me , then he come up in price 3 times , then we were $2000 apart. And I said no deal , he said you wouldn’t let $2,000 dollars stop the deal would you? I replied you are the one stopping the deal by $2,000 . I walked out started the car , and he come running out and said ok I’ll go $2,000 more 😊deal done
The not writing the prices down for products happened to me! I bought an extended warranty on my new purchase I took a 60 month loan and the finance manager added the cost of the warranty to the total price of the car. It was not itemized. I was given a separate copy of the warranty without any price on the actual warranty papers. Fast forward 2 years later I trade the car in for a truck and I go to get the refund from the manufacturer and they would not refund me. They said the warranty was given for free my the dealership there is no price on the warranty page. The warranty was not itemized on the bill of sale either it was mixed into the overall cost of the car. Total scam job!!! I was out about $750!
That name dropping rule makes no sense. As a matter of fact, these are so helpful but the more I watch the more I come to believe that car dealerships and folks who work here are pure evil.
I don’t think the workers are necessarily evil. They just care more about their own profit and best interest more than that of a stranger. Most people do. That being said, I would never work for an industry like that.
I think it’s a matter of how you look at it; you tell the F&I Mgr you’re “Besties” w/someone and so you sit back and feel whatever numbers they show you are a good deal -bc they know you trust that person, so whatever they can roll out-you KNOW it’s a deal.
I was buying a oven and the the sales representative ask me if I was referred by someone . So I told him a name, the. He goes “good, you’re a friend with so and so and I will take care of you and give u beat price” that was like a oh shietzzz moment for me
Try looking at the real estate industry....most are crooked salesmen chasing commissions asap and not helping their customers as well as they should. The industry trains people to stop showing properties as soon as the customer says yes, even though another property may be better suited for the customer. @@InternetUser._
So, I bought a Honda passport brand new last November, I knew the internet sales manager, got 3000 off msrp and when I went into the finance office he came with me and basically said the only thing I want is MAYBE the gap insurance. They didn't force any of the menu onto me, and gave me the 0% financing Honda was offering at the time. Knowing the manager actually helped me in this situation but I can see how the f&i office could take advantage of that... I just found this channel recently and have learned so much from you guys... thank you for being our advocate!
@@jenniferbillings9825 I got 30,000 in cash I don't have a bank account I've been saving for years I'm 51 My credit's good but not perfect so I'm wondering how I can do this without having to fill a form for the IRS I think it's called a 1088
Great info, I would not have thought of these. I did know about one that happened to my Brother. He was told flat out they would not sell him the rare new compact car he found unless he financed with them. He begrudgingly agreed but a few days later he went to his Credit Union and asked them if there was any way he could refi. He found out from them that the agreement to finance was only a verbal, not in the contract. The Dealer was really miffed and called him to gripe about it and he asked the dealer if he had it in writing....Uh No. My Bro said I am only obligated to what is in the contract, not what the salesman tells me. And that was that, he did the refi at a much lower rate with his Credit Union.
I did the same thing a bit differently. I unexpectedly found a great deal on the exact new car I wanted but hadn't done any finance vetting because the car was so rare I didn't ever expect to find one for sale. I bought the car immediately taking the dealer financing AND all the available options. The next day I took out a loan from my much friendlier credit union and paid off the dealer loan (which hadn't even hit the bank yet) and cancelled the options I didn't want (I think I kept one). The dealer is probably still crying about that transaction because a few weeks later I returned to the dealer to deliver some items from my trade I'd promised them and both my salesman and my F&I guy "no longer worked there".
The last car I bought was at a Berkshire Hathaway owned dealership. they were OVERTLY DISHONEST. When I caught them each time they acted confused and offended that I would not trust them. At one point, I threw the documents at the finance guy and yelled at him for trying the same gimmick twice. I am taking very good care of my 16 year old pickup, because I am finished with car dealers.
Smart thinking, but car dealers know for every one of us that don't fall for their crap, there's 20 more that do. There's a sucker born every minute and two to take em. Cars are cool. It's too bad dealerships ruin the experience
TBF you will have to go to the finance manager for cancellations, I actually called Toyota care and they said I had to call the finance manager if I wanted to cancel the extended maintenance. Thankfully he was decent about it, just asked me why I wanted to cancel and I think my answer helped me which was "I got horrible service from the service portion of this dealership"
I had A friend who recently brought A Used SUV.Finance guy told he I can sell you Wheel Protection, Extended Warranty, Fabric Protection for X amount of dollars.The bank requested you you have it.I told her don't do it.All try doing us packing Ur deal.She said no N was ready to walk if they didn't take it off N they did.What the help of watching your Videos I saved her A ton of money.Keep up the great work..Zach,Ray N Kimberly
The " you have to wait 3-4 months to refinance" line was tried on me. I financed through ford to get the 750 rebate, went to my bank the very next week and never even made the first payment to ford.
Last time I bought a car I could have very well been a cash buyer because I had the cash in the bank to pay the entire price, but I decided to play the game and finance the car with the intention of immediately paying it off. I didn't tell the finance guy that right away though. He gave me the whole "you have to pay at least 6 months payments on it" crap and I think I said "well then maybe I should just write a check for the whole sale price then and call it a day" and he was like "well we already filled out the paperwork." Then he gave me the paperwork and I read it in awkward silence, and when I got the the part about no prepayment penalty I read it out loud and he gave me this guilty look. I signed the paperwork and paid the loan off in full three weeks later. I paid around $30 total in interest. Probably should have paid it sooner but they didn't send me the paperwork right away and I had to seek out the information to set myself up with the bank to pay it off. Next time I'll try and do that immediately. I also didn't buy any of the warranty extras.
Once a finance manager dropped a name-she told me she had gone to school with my sister. I don’t think it caused a problem for me, but it was years ago.
Samething happened to me...had a fm tell me he went to school with my cousin. He had a class with her and acted like they were best friends. Lol. I couldn't understand why he was doing this. Even weeks after I would seriously ponder that interaction. I could blatantly see he barely didn't even know her but likely just had the same class. I guess he was trying to build rapport. This video makes sense.
Actually, I bought my latest truck from a salesman at a dealership that I knew. I called him, he looked up the model I wanted, and put it on 48hr reserve and got him to ask the GM about getting the truck for invoice (it was a base model). Walked in on Friday morning at 8AM and drove out at 8:45AM, salesman friend got his 'mini' and the 'first-sale-of-the-day' bonus, we were all happy.
Wow! You’re my favorite kind of customer, Coming from a 25 yr veteran in the car biz. most of the times invoice is not the lowest price. Most car manufacturers have incentives and other special offers that can lower the price of the car or truck thousands under invoices! 😂
I appreciate that you are sharing this information Kimberly, how many years were you a finance manager? Maybe with the fact that you are now helping to educate people about this aspect of car buying, maybe it will help to change the industry overtime let’s hope. It is something that is absolutely needed.
Name dropping: she doesn't really explain this. If you're friends with the sales manager, it means you're unlikely to back out of a deal. You don't want to offend your friend. And you always want to brag about the "deal" you got.
I always try to buy a used vehicle from a good friend who I know takes good care of their cars. This way I avoid having to deal with dealerships 👍🏼. So far I’ve been very lucky with my vehicles
My last purchase deal was before pandemic (December 2014) was at 0% APR/72 months and the price was at almost 20% discount from MSRP. I refused everything on the menu but he did ding me with wheel lock nut set for $50 that was problem worth $25. He was still ok that he got rid of the SUV. The old good days. I drive my cars 10 years so we will see in 2024/2025 where things go. Although I'm already getting that need to get a new car itch.
If you want to have some fun and stir up shit with your sales person and the finance manager, tell the finance manager that you and the sales are long time friends. Then take the information you learn here and tell the finance manager that the sales guy gave you the real information. "Yeah, Jack told me you always add 3% to your buy rate so I know you can give me a much better rate than that!"
After meeting Mr. Ray, I keep thinking that Ms. Kimberly is Zack's mother. She always sounds sincere and her advice is solidly helpful. (Zack and Ray, thanks for stop making the "car market bubble just crashed" weekly video)
@Kimberly Kline Good gawd, the microphone is as big as her head... Im guessing the technology has advanced maybe enough to get one thats not as big as a watermelon, and whilst we are at it... that black Addams Family Mortician nail polish , good gawd
I called a dealership and told them i have a loan from my bank and they said "well that price was only a discount for our bank, we will charge you $1k more and we need more information otherwise we can't sell it to you"...I said great! and never called them again
Exactly that's what I'm talking about some of these tactics that a lot of these people are saying like for example I have 30,000 in cash right now I would love to go buy a brand new car I've been to three dealerships just looking never said a word test drove come back home to listen think goodness found these videos before I'm even going back I don't have a way of getting a cashier's check I don't have it back account so I guess I'm SOL
Bought a Corolla at a dealership, where the Sales Manager had been my manager at a previous job. Brought in an online price - he laughed and gave me the deal, plus threw in some other stuff.
In my experience from buying when I was 26, and from working with 2 different people that had been finance managers, that job requires/attracts people with the least integrity/honor! I worked with the former finance guys in sales jobs and they were always trying to steal coworkers' sales. Basically the most dishonest people around!
The best way to do things for me is to do not go to the dealership order your new vehicle online do not buy anything extra just take your vehicle and run away from the dealership
After we bought our brand new leftover 2022 Honda Pilot we changed our minds about the “extras” that we purchased and we went back for a refund for these “extras” the dealership told us 4 to 6 weeks to process the refund so we called on the 7th day of the 6th week and guess what??on that very last day and late in the afternoon they finally and reluctantly sent out a check in the snail mail which in turn took another week and a half to get posted to our account and clear the bank. Never ever again will we buy “extras” it will only be the OTD price +tax tag and title…That’s it nothing more!!
I ask everything in email from base MSRP price, levies F&PDI, taxes etc with finance rate and don’t show up at dealership without knowing your basics and stick even though they will switch managers to lure you
Im not a finance manager but this kind of stuff is why I tell my customers I ask you wait X before doing Y but if you can't I understand, but it does count against me if you dont wait til X
I used to sell products for a car dealer for years in 1983, I wanted to buy a new S-10 and he made the finance manager sell me the truck at the rail price. The dealer pulled all the window stickers while the window MSRP was $12,874 the actual price I paid was $4200. Tax & tag out the door . Due to my bargaining from my experience and knowledge I have saved tens of thousands of dollars. For example Honda Fit MSRP was $20, 974 I paid $14,679. Mazda 3 MSRP $29800, paid $16,000 then sold them my Honda Fit for $10,000 so I actually paid $6,000 for a 2013 Mazda 3 gran touring new.
I bought a 7yo Jeep Liberty 12 years ago. I paid $1,200 out the door because I let everyone know my brother in law was a salesman there. That car is no longer mine but is still going strong!!!
Even if you ask them for the price of each product, aren't they just giving you the marked up price of that product? They aren't giving you their cost. They can tell you any number they want, how can you know that's a good price unless you have independently compared prices elsewhere. I'm sure you aren't going to be the first person to sit in the chair and ask for the price so why does doing that back them into any kind of corner?
Buy rate is what the bank offered interest rate for example if an F&I person knows you aren’t buying anything they will raise your interest rate as much as 3 points higher or more So 2.9 % buy rate becomes 5.9 % that is pure profit for F&I and the dealership the extra 3 points. It’s called glomming the customer
#4 is not entirely accurate, I'm in a group of 32 dealerships, none of our FI guys have chargebacks. They have 10% taken off the top every month no matter what. Cancelling products will not effect them or paying a loan off early won't effect them.
1. As a rule buy used cars, gently used ones 4 years old and 40k miles on that. Current age cars have a life for nearly 250k miles, and at 40k miles they are nearly new. But the perception of most people it is a used car, and price falls nearly half. That is big savings there for any consumer. 2. Pay cash as much as possible, (which means buy only the stuff which you can really afford to buy) and that is big savings on paying interest to the bank, which is not in your interest. 3. When loan is mandatory take a loan from the bank where your funds are, and most likely they give a cheaper loan than most others do. Also, pay it off ASAP, to avoid interest.
When I bought my 19 Cruze new in late 2018, the F & I guy at a Chevrolet dealership went through the list of things to sell me, I said no to everything. Oh he tried hard to change my mind, but I was firm. No, nothing. So he offered me 2 options for free, again I said no, I want nothing extra. Then he said I’m going to give you xyz product anyway for free. When I got home and look at my paperwork, the a-hole charged me $265.
South Florida is the “KING” area for these vehicles. Imagine that, the flattest roads in the country with no mountains and everyone drives in the left lane like SPEED DEMONS. Most people aren’t even using these vehicles for their intended purpose of pulling/hauling anything. We even have commercials down here of a guy driving on the beach with his bronco and pulling out his guitar to play a tune by the ocean😂, so unrealistic.
Yes you can. All you need do is demand the F&I manager reveal the buy rate, the money factor the manufacturer's captive finance company offered. If the F&I manager refuses to reveal the buy rate you can be certain that F&I manager has bumped the rate.
Did not recently buy a truck like I almost did. But now just learned I did kind of screwed up on #1 that she said in video. Did tell the sales dude that I did used to work with 1 of the many family members some years back, which is 100% true. But no big deal I backed down from the whole thing which is another reason and they were not to happy about it. But when I do buy will not go back there.
Question: If I pay off all but 3 payments, would the dealership still get a charge back? Because the total interest will be almost nothing, but technically I would make 3 payments....
When you say "write down the prices." can't they inflate them 200, 300%? So what have we gained by having the prices written down unless they are required to write down "MSRP" prices (if such a thing exists)?
Yeah , I was wondering the same thing . I mean , once you say you don't want any of the stuff , and then they start lowering the price on any . You have to question if any of the prices are locked in . Which we here know , they are not .
Zach, I love your stuff, shared it today with a colleague who is in the market, and I am thrilled with the new company name (it is now June 2023). The grammar nazi in me though says, “ It is just you and me” (Best way to tell if it should be “me“ or “I“… Take away the other person and how would you say it? You use “I” if you’re doing the action, “me” if the action is being done TO you.) Thanks to my Mom😊❤
Would there be benefit to the following strategy: I intend to pay cash for a car. I go through the financing process with the dealer never mentioning I intend to pay it off with the first payment so that I can get the best deal possible as they think they are getting the financing profits on the back end. I pay off car on first payment, thereby inducing a charge back on the financing to the dealer, but I got the best deal possible and cut their profits significantly on the car. I understand I wouldn't be their favorite customer. But wouldn't they be incentivized to cut the price on the car more if I take this approach than if I pay straight cash at the dealership?
I want to know if this is illegal. On a AutoNation website it stays the MSRP for 2022 Corolla cross to be 24K. When you initiate the online buying process it's about $27, 500 out the door including dealer fees. It appears to be the price if you use their financing.. When you show up with a pre-approval all of a sudden they're adding $2,500 extra in bogus fees like then protection and fabric protection. Are they required to honor the out the door price on the website?
Well if they're just outright thieves they keep you there until closing time and then they sell we got to rush to this contract and they don't show you the contractor working on they show you the contract you're not going to get its outright thievery so you don't know you just paid $1,700 for a an extended warranty that you don't need. It comes with a 5-year warranty you would have never bought a 3-year extended warranty for $17,000 if you knew that's what they were doing. But you don't know that because after they have you sign the contract they roll it up and put it in envelope walk you out to your car and get you off the lot and lock the gate up behind you
there's nothing available from F&I mgr. that I can't buy somewhere else except state license plates, sales tax, and maybe dock fees. I negotiate dock fees. NEVER buy anything there. Also get your financing from a Credit Union!
Doc fees are typically non-negotiable as there as in most states, there is a maximum.allowed and the dealerships are required by law to charge every customer.the same doc fee, so that line won't change. Where you negotiate is the selling price of the vehicle and ultimately, as these guys always teach, the out the door price of the vehicle.
@@srdjr6760 doc fees in AZ are not set by the state, my last car in 2020 had $575 doc fees which were negotiable, I know some states limit these fees to around $175, but $575 is ridiculous. They have a person they pay $20 an hour and it takes a skilled operator 15 mins to fill out the online paperwork.
@Kimberly Kline Kimberly can u explain since you in finances how I put down a 3k Down payment on a 12k car. And my total payoff after was 11.9k? Shouldn’t have been 8 something?
Short answer: OTD + One Months interest! But, there are pre-computed loans (less common, subprime) and fixed rate loans. Fixed rate loans accrue interest daily, if you pay off after a month, you’ll pay your bill from the dealer and a month’s worth of interest at the fixed rate. But, pre-computed loans are VERY tricky & sneaky! At the start of the loan, they calculate the OTD price, plus any interest and fees you will have incurred over the entire life of the loan and that’s your starting balance! You’ll chip away at this huge balance until it reaches zero. If you want to pay that type of loan off early, you have to request a pay off amount from the lender… it will include your OTD plus a month’s worth is interest, which in this type of loan is going to be VERY HEAVY-HANDED. The longer you wait, the more the interest grows in the beginning, and it happens VERY quickly because of how the interest is calculated (Rule of 78)! So, beware with this type of loan! STAY AWAY FROM PRECOMPUTED LOANS!!!! Unless you’re absolutely desperate!
NEVER believe anyone at the car dealership is honest and working for your benefit. Buying a vehicle is not an investment. You will lose value the second you sign the paperwork.
If anyone could answer, what are the top 5 videos someone should watch on the page? Car was totaled and need to get an affordable car around the mileage and year my car was. I have a rental and hoping I can keep it for 3 weeks to hold out for maybe another percentage decrease. Also, want to learn how to negotiate or how I should go about things in a dealership. Any info would help!
I’m in the exact same situation. I was in an accident 9-15 and the other driver’s insurance took full responsibility for the accident. My insurance is handling the damage claim and claimed my car a total loss and the adjuster said my car was worth $15k when I paid close to $18k 4 months ago. I’m calling her tomorrow to negotiate a better price. The other driver’s insurance is paying for my rental car till Tuesday but I’m going to see they’ll let me drive the rental a little longer till I find another car.
A sales man tried to name drop on me. He and my uncle had a mutual friend (true). He claimed the friend and him had made a bet that he could sell me a car. My uncle said that was out of character for his friend. I walked.
Im watching closely because i might be in the market for a new vahicle this year 2024. Say if i walk into a dealer with a pre-approved from my credit union(but will held to it till the final moment). If the finance manager started to lay down all kinds of NON-MANDATORY fees and add-ons on top of the OTD, my question is..... Can i tell the finance officer that " i will take every single one on the list, provided that it will be subtracted to the agreed OTD and will still kept the agreed OTD unchanged. Is that to aggressive or its a fair kind of bargaining. Thanks
Can you just not get any product from the finance manager and just walk away with just paying for the car? If can, is that the right move or should I take a look at the products being offered?
@Kimberly Kline So if I wanted to buy the car on the spot. Would that be possible? Like say I went into a dealership and I wanted a car, but I wanted to pay the whole price for the vehicle in one day, and not have to make monthly payments.
