If for some reason you're coming down to the comments because you want more of this discussion: An extra 20 minutes of tangents about lore (mostly) is available for the patrons. I promise you nothing of value is lost if you don't want to pay us for it though. It's mostly jokes, Eric annoying Brad by asking chains of questions that require further tangents, and heavy spoilers for a good book series we decided to cut from the main episode. Also random correction because I caught it while reviewing the video: Guilliman never met Alpha Primus directly. The main character of Avenging Son meets him and *tells* Guilliman about it. I know, I'm sorry, I've already flogged myself for this error. I promise it won't happen again my fellow lore nerds.
@@patrickmilberger4469 I never reviewed it proper, in the 20 books in 40 minutes episode (audio only) I mention in passing a few of my problems with the book. TL;DR: It's your typical self insert circlejerk that attracts 15 year old boys. It's fine for the job it has, but I'm long past being the target audience for those type of books. It's also clearly born from the 90's Fantasy/SciFi shlock era without a hint of irony or self-awareness. For my anime nerd friend I described it as Sword Art Online. The opening chapter has perhaps the single cringiest attempt at acting cool I've ever witnessed outside of isekai light novels.
@@skeeter5076 Yeah not to be a hater but I think the reason that show is popular is because they happen to be the only long form podcast with professional quality that discusses things people are interested in, not because they are particularly good at it.
@@andrew3606 If nobody else is doing better then they're the best. I actually like the true crime spinoff better The episodes with Kirioth are good too
I love the idea if like Alpharius secretly being big E’s favorite, and having been with him the whole time for the crusade and for each other Primarchs recovery. I love that there’s still an element of doubt about Alpha Legions “For the Emperor” is meant to be taunting or legitimate.
My favourite bit, is that he was Malcadors project, Big E didn't really have much to do with him (as far as we know). Alpharius being Malcadors pet primarch adds so many possibilities. Malcador is possibly the only person in the Imperium who could out Alpharius, Alpharius. It would be great if it turned out Malcador asked the Alpharius to side with the traitors so he'd have eyes on the traitors after learning what the cabal intended.
@@jesterprince4949 Alpharius was traitor and will always be as he is dead, his arrogance led him to to think he knew better in the grand scheme of things so he fell into believing the cabal, Omegon is the loyalist one, his plots are more interesting and he still exists so his little group is still maybe ish loyalist but now 95% of the alpha leigon is just a choas warband because they fell during the heresy so he doesn't do much
@@Phosphorus116 if I were to argue the toss, I'd say it's more likely that Alpharius was the loyalist, he spent more time with the imperium, was raised in it by malcadore. Omegon on the other hand aside from his brother, spent more time with Horus. That said, I don't think it really matters, they must have swapped identities a thousand times and to them it's just a name. While I don't disagree one of them is dead and that the legion has lost its way. I think the duality of the legion is that there are some genuine loyalist warbands, some who believe it but are mislead, and just some utter traitors and some that are loyal to the imperial dream before the HH but fight the current imperium. I also think whichever was the loyalist, perhaps was loyal to malcadore and not his father. Which on the surface looks like the same thing. But malcadore was clearly a bit shifty and had his own ways. The traitor primary probably firmly believed he was being loyal to humanity, but that the imperium needed to die. I don't think either sided with the cabal and they both decided to go a middle (3rd) path, but that led to them diverging on methods and ideology. In the end it doesn't matter, there will be a million people claiming to be alpharius both traitor and loyal and we will never truly know if this is true, even if GW outright said that this is THE Alpharius they can go back on that at any time for moustache twirling purposes. Personally though I'd love it to still be both twins alive and both are on opposing sides.
@@jesterprince4949 decent enough take, one did side with the cabal though as he believed he needed to complete the prophecy for humanity's sake (I believe this one is alpharius as he was the bolder one) so both thought they were loyalist in their own ways, I believe one twin is, or should be dead but you're right in the fact that GW can and will play up the meme of their nature and bring one or both back if need be, and GW would if more people actually played alpha leigon but who knows, might happen someday
@@Phosphorus116 They do feel like one of the most underbaked Legions in terms of representation on the tabletop. I'd argue theres not a single mini in the chaos range that suits the Alpha Legion. I use alot of Chosen in my army as headhunters but the new rules basically just made them feel less specalist and more focused on melee.
Eric laughing when you asked him about what ork books he had read was by far the best answer he could have given, and fits him so much, love your podcast fellas!
GW: “Our game is a very niche circle that not a lot know about” Fans: *makes cinematic vids and fan art for free* GW: “Cease this heresy or prepare to be sued”
"Nothing is as bad as white dwarf" _cries in that being the only mention of my baby boys, the Blood Ravens_ Also, there is a trilogy of Audio dramas that are about Elysians.
God I love this episode! I really enjoyed the excessive amount of sarcasm and meme references. This just as good as Adeptus Ridiculous in its own way 🔥🔥🔥
Just started on the Ahriman Omnibus as a KSons player. Really enjoy it so far. Also have the White Scars Omni and Warhawk since I want to get into them. Also want to read the Grey Knight stuff but its hard to find atm.
The thing that annoys me about the new Cawl primaris stuff is that the way the og legions behaved during unification directly conflicts with his nature vs nurture experiment but at the same time you could point to the blood angels who were just as bad as the night lords then became arguably more beloved than the ultramarines
I'd say that necrons book Twice-dead King: Reign is pushing the lore forward with its *Ghostwind* ar a basis of material universe that few can interfere with. And it is also connected to some other books. Yvraine mention the darkness that is not a warp amd Mephiston touched that. So they really adding more and more, but people will eventually skip such important lore bruh
I'm a definite blood angels simp, and only started playing 6/7 months ago, but I did really enjoy Devistation of Ball, and it's sorta sequel Darkness in the Blood as, especially the ladder since you get a lot of non space marine POV. I know AdRic already covered it, but Blood Lines is actually an enjoyable crime novel.
Also the two different narrators between both Blood angels books do really well I think, but the ladder had a better Mephiston, despite the smell of hot topic and linkin park coming from him in Darkness in the Blood
I am a big fan of Dan Abnett because of his work at Marvel and DC, but i havent jumped into any of his 40k. I've heard very good and very bad things about his work there.
Does anyone have a recommended book list for xenos books? (I've never read a warhammer book and most recommendations I've seen are from humanities' perspective which I'm not interested in)
If you can find them the 'Path of' series are good for Eldar (Path of the Warrior, Seer and Outcast, in that order) and Dark Eldar (Path of the Renegade, Incubus and Archon), properly managing to have the Eldar come across as alien (especially the Craftworlders). For the Orks there's Mike Brook's novels Warboss and Brutal Kunnin that I've not read, but have heard very good things about. For the Tau, there's some very early lore (from an Imperial POV, unfortunately given the brief, but I like it as a view into 1st 'gen' Tau fluff) in the novel Kill Team. More recently (though again, I've not read these myself), Phil Kelly wrote a couple of books about Farsight, and his break with the Tau Empire that I've heard some good things about. Brad covered Necrons pretty well in the video. That's most the main xenos covered, I think (Nids don't really, and shouldn't imo, get POV works).
My favorite new lore is 100% just reading Cawl's shenanigans and seeing him mad scientist his way through the galaxy and having fun while doing it. The new Necrom stuff is also awesome Infinite and the Divine was one of the first 40k audio books I bought and I loved it.
As an Adeptus Ridiculous fan, I gotta give props because this episode got me even more intrigued in stuff I had already heard about in Adeptus Ridiculous
Cawl and Guillemans dynamic is one of my favorite things in 40k right behind Trayzn and the base background lore for the eldar (all attempts to actually WRITE for the eldar are peak grimderp)
The Eisenhorn books are solely responsible for me finally making the leap into 40k from AoS. The Audiobook versions of them are absolutely fantastic and my friends and will often listen to them on long road trips. Most of the Warhammer crime anthologies have been fantastic as well. I read them with my wife who otherwise is not all that interested in 40k and she really enjoys those as well as Eisenhorn.
@@SWProductions100 he seems to be fairly critical of most things imperium in general, he seems to get bored by imperium content (and how it dominates lore) and also by the lack of non-imperium lore (e.g. chaos)
Thousand sons was the first warhammer book I was not only able to finish but actually enjoyed, big ups gareth armstrong's narration to make it through that one
Do you mean Prospero Burns? I thought you meant A Thousand Sons, but that was narrated by Martyn Ellis. I haven’t read Prospero Burns but I was not a fan of its companion book, A Thousand Sons. And I’m a hardcore Tzeentch/Thousand Sons fan. But if you like Gareth Armstrong, I’d recommend The First Heretic. I haven’t finished it yet, but I’m enjoying thus far. And it leads into the truly excellent Betrayer, which makes it worth it alone. But besides Heresy stuff, my unprompted recommendations would be the Night Lords Omnibus (Soul Hunter->Blood Reaver->Void Stalker), Flesh and Steel, and The Twice-Dead King: Ruin. The Night Lords trilogy in particular has outstanding narration if you’re an audiobook listener.
Yeah I was a bit confused by writing it off as being "Grimderp", I personally wasn't the biggest fan of how the best writing seemed to be in the 90% lead up to a climactic fight then the fight itself being fairly lackluster, I didn't think Xenos was super bad in that regard, but Malleus and Hereticus certainly was. Still outside of a few chapters of anticlimactic battles I thought the intrigue and character interaction that made up the majority of the books was fairly good.
Tbh dan abnett books in general shouldnt be anyones intro to the setting simply because he has a very specific writing style and tone that can seem off putting sometimes. I think hes a good writer but id prefer infinite and the divine, or something from graham mcneill or adb as an intro
@@nwahnerevar9398 He probably thinks it's a good introduction simply because the book is good and he figures "all you need is a well-written book", but I think an introduction to the lore does need to assume you're coming in from zero so starting with the _Necrons_ is a weird gateway. Definitely has the vibe of "I've been into this so long I forgot what new players don't already know".
Chill. This is a podcast. It plays automatically through people's podcast services on their phones, cars, etc. Saying "by the way, we're going to talk about story spoilers, if you're in the middle of a book right now, heres your warning" is reasonable. Chill out, try to enjoy your day without other people's good manners bothering you.
40k fans being unable to discern the difference between “lore” and “story” is still so funny. A book should be a story. For a lot of people this isn’t a game, it’s a universe in which stories are experienced. Most people don’t like stories being told AT them, they want to experience them themselves. Media lore is most commonly defined as the aspects of a fictional universe that precede the events of the current story, the history of the world, not the events of the “current” progressing story. These stories are current and they progress their own individual stories. This is such a needless comment when Poorhammer do a good job of signalling the spoilers anyway.
Vashtorr is my favorite new addition for sure. He adds some consequences for the rapid expansion of primaris stuff and gives the Inquisition's wingeing about technology some merit, has a pretty great niche as a chaos deity, and sets up a possible rivalry (hopefully) for Belakor. The maguffin hunt is definitely wrote at this point, but on a conceptual level he's a fantastic new player in the great game.
Just too add on too this black Legion is well the Talon of Horus and the black legion books ... They are in a series and is about the formation of the black Legion and pretty good read even if you don't care about them as a sub faction as it focuses on chaos marines/Renegade mortals relationship towards themselves and the galaxy at large.
I highly recommend the nightlords series and the first book that I have read repeatedly was Storm of Iron. Iron warriors, siege specialists against massive fortresses and titans? It really is a treat that I recommend to people.
Night Lords is literally GOAT 40k series, I won't hear any arguments about this. Black Legion is okay but I like "Talon of Horus" wayyyyy more than "Black Legion." Also that title is confusing.
It's a shame about the campaign book lore stuff, because all the complaints you mentioned are real, but what makes it extra sad is that it's some of the best (written) lore we actually get. From recent times, Octarius especially was super good for both Orks and Tyranids (my beloved). I wish we'd get a novelization of it, but nope not enough space marines in it, so instead it's gonna get forgotten and lost...
Cawl: I made a room full of brains, it computes numbers and.. stuff. It shall answer any and all thy questions. AI: make Cawl the archmagus! Praise cawl! ... please kill me. He chews sunflower seeds like a camel while working on me. Gulliman: Cawl, did it just ask me to kill it? Cawl: nope, it definitely didn't say anything. *Leans over and whispers to AI* Shut it you or brain farts wont be the worst of your problems.
It is worth mentioning that a large chunk (maybe even the majority) of the campaign book lore is now in the Warhammer Vault, so it's now easy to access, and you'll have access to it if you use the apps/Warhammer+ so it doesn't need any extra steps. Also kudos to the editor for the recurring "Positive" gag, loved it!
The comment about 40k fans not being able to read is so funny and true. I joined most factions' 'main' FB groups since I own multiple armies, and the amount of people wanting and getting spoonfed anything from basic faction rule questions that's explained in the first paragraph (i.e. sanctic spell rules for GK) up to asking people being fed 'meta lists' and complaining that they lost because they can't read, is just insane.
I don't think it's fair to say anything was taken from Be'lakor to give to Vashtorr. Absolutely nothing about Be'lakor says "Soul Forges." The Total War team's decision to put him there was totally arbitrary and had no roots in real lore.
Honestly I think I like your guys take on the lore better than Ridiculous. Feels less like an actual podcast and more like two dudes shooting the shit over a gaming table while waiting for the next spot to open.
Tyranid Books tend to be really good in the lore department. when you where mentioning the use of the Traitor Geneseed remember that Space Wolves would know considering that Björns nose still works even after more then 10k years
I really enjoyed the Luther book and am looking forward to Cypher's upcoming book. The Dark Angels woefully misinterpreting everything Luther said because the Imperium is short-sighted and self-destructive was great. Also, can you tell that I'm a Fallen player? The Dark Angels being obsessed with the Fallen is pretty one-note and boring, but the Fallen trying to carve out a path for themselves that isn't bound to the Imperium or Chaos is actually interesting to me. For older books, the first 40k book I ever read, before I even knew about the setting, was Lord of the Night. It's a little outdated in some ways but is my favorite take on what the Night Lords could and should be, rather than what they've become.
Glad you made it clear from the start what your opinion is. No sarcasm, nothing along those lines with that statement. Making it perfectly clear where your stance is on what part and tone of the setting is greatly appreciated. I personally have the opposite stance on the setting. The super cereal tone of the setting, that abandons the foundation that the whole thing was built upon (what people call 'grim derp'), is what I despise of modern 40K. Give me where one of the factions that threatens to collapse the fascist empire that is the only thing that is keeping humanity alive is -football holligans- Orks. Gimmie the Land Raider being named after Land, and Land being vastly annoyed because everyone assumes it's because the Land Raider, ya know, _raids lands_ and doesn't know it's named after him. Gimmie the Eisenhorn series. I'm not saying you can't have the super cereal series. I'm saying that both can exist and we need more 'grim derp' outside of Orks. The universe is big enough for both, and we've had a deluge of super cereal over the last couple of decades.
Just adding my voice to the couple dozen others who are completely perplexed at the Eisenhorn hate. Thought it was a fantastic tonal introduction to the 40k universe. Xenos got me familiar enough with the setting to start really digging into the lore and hobby.
On the subject of horror novels set in the 40K universe, I'm really taken with I think Bricky's idea of a monster story where it's just an Arco-Flagellant let loose in a civilian population. Imagine the protagonists are normal ass workers, called in to work at a factory. There's a war going on two blocks down, that the Sisters of Battle are fighting. (It doesn't matter who they're fighting). But quotas must be met and the Imperium doesn't believe in the concept of labor rights. The workers get locked inside, to stop anyone from abandoning their work. Then, an Arco-Flagellant strays from the battlefield on accident, and enters the factory. Now all these normal people are locked in with a monster that knows only the constant feed of sermons into his eyeballs, and the overriding need to kill. The workers have to try to survive and escape, while being picked off one by one. They have no idea what this thing is, because the Imperium doesn't believe in educating the public. It's maybe halfway through the story they realize it's not some heretical or mutant creature, but something the _Imperium_ created. Because, shocker, the Imperium are the bad guys.
Rob Rath is a proper historian and it really shows in the infinite and the divine. I knew I would like it because I'm a big fan of his youtube show but wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did because previously I didn't think much of Necrons.
Okay, it doesn't let me edit my original comment, but this was a very enjoyable episode. The cut back to "I want to stay positive" had me laughing. Best episode so far. Love it.
I prefer the stories that use the setting whilst being less about moving the general lore forward. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed all of the books in the Warhammer Crime series. Outgunned is a fun ride from the perspective of a imperial propagandist. For shorter works, The Last Church and Throne of Lies were both great
Brutal Kunnin, is literally like a manga for orks where an ork goes on a power fantasy adventure, and for whatever reason, the admech are there...and they shoved in badrukk because they needed someone with a name tied to a model.
You should read an older one! Eye of terror is probably my favorite book in the warhammer setting I’ve read! It’s incredibly different than anything else in the series especially for how old it is. It’s a great space adventure of misfits jetting around
This is the only 40k novel I have warm feelings about. It's just so different! However, that vixen character feels like it was written by a 13 year old boy....her personality is "she is a hot demon who wants my OC because she is hot and a demon."
@@oliviawalsh1684 Only semi-related, but this is also why I gave up on the George RR Martin books. The way he writes about Daenerys (who is 14 in the first book) reads like he was typing with one hand =\
For the longest time I avoided 40k because it was stagnation for literal decades. No real movement forward of the timeline. It at least feels like they are trying to make something that is actually new for once.
One of the main reasons I get invested with 40k is because of the lore but lately I've been feeling like alotta the new shit at least from what I've heard isn't actually going anywhere or isn't that great like it's lost its touch? I could be wrong tho and I've never known where I should start reading or what books are goid
I think the grimdark astetic as a thing lends itself very well to character driven stories. And it would do well leaning more into that instead of these big epic events which just fall flat a lot of time due to plot shenanigans. Edit: Also admech aren't the only ones that are anti progress, the imperial political system is anti progress.
5:05 That's exactly what happened to me. Pious Vorne is my favorite 40K model and come to find out, between the two books she's in, she's "on screen" for like eight pages.
Gav Thorpe's eldar trilogy is worth the read. It gives really good insight into eldar philosophy, mysticism, and society. It doesn't do the usual alien "they think weird because their brains do math differently" excuse, it explores exarchs, the avatar, corsair, and a good justification for farseers threading that needle between useless and god tier deus ex machina.
Loved this, as to a lore written just in a White Dwarf: The Blood Ravens got Primaris gene-seed, but no unnumbered sons along with it.Not suspicious at all, no sir.
Idk if you guys will ever see this comment, but you are the most interesting and pleasant duo to discuss 40k lore ☺️ It feels like such a warm funny talk around a fire, with great chemistry between Brad's sarcasm and Eric's amazing lore approximations 😆 Please do more lore videos 🙌🏻 And (we?) I love longer formats anyway!
I like that you brought up the possible treasure trove of writing options a horror themed novel concerning the Drukhari would be. I'm just getting into 40k, and I really liked the Drukhari combat patrol (in fact I'm building it right now) but when I started looking into the lore, I was terrified at what I found. I feel like the space pirate aspect is reminiscent of the reavers from Firefly, except that have a deeper cenobite-like reasoning for their actions. The homunculus, body horror stuff is seriously messed up, and any horror novel adapted from their lore would be bone chilling. Like, tyranids are "scary," but in the same way the bugs in Starship Troopers are scrary. Drukhari are actual evil.
While I was a fan of the Alpha Legion before I read Alpharius, that book cemented my love of them. Mike Brooks also wrote a Short Story on the Alpha Legion as well as the new Harrowmaster, both feel like the good parts of Alpharius. I haven't finished Harrowmaster but so far all three feel like they dodges my biggest issue with 40k books ive read: it doesn't name drop every model tou can buy tm. So many feel like commercials which like, they are in a sense, but atleast pretend you're not one. I also did not put together that Alpha Primus was a not-primarch, but ive only read The Great Work so its not /as/ obvious there I suppose
