45 ACP vs 10mm: Unbelievable Difference On Barriers 

It's true that 10mm has been watered down but it's still much more powerful than 40s&w.

They did that because a full powered 10mm was producing too much recoil for FBI testing. Garand Thumb has a video with the comparison between the two.

​@@philipmitchener28that video was hilarious

@@PerceptionVsReality333 At least half the 10mm on the market is loaded to 40SW pressures.

most 10mm loads sold are exact duplicates of the 40.@@PerceptionVsReality333

Lol. I always thought I was being clever when I asked my coworker if he's seen the ".40 caliber" socket wrench.

And take all your shiny scrap for melting, aye

Groan.

10 is for bears

i own one and am going to start using that phrase. I bought it because I like how the dbl stack fit my hand.

The .45acp with the same weighted bullet on the 10mm, outperforms the 10mm in force per square inch and wound cavity. Just drop the grains closer to a standard 10mm grain bullet of 155.

Against true 10mm no contest 10mm wins

10mm has about the same powder, can be loaded with 230gr projectiles even tho 180 is more common. So the same input energy and mass, over a smaller area. That means more pressure. More pressure for the same mass means more velocity and output. The 10mm was designed to be an optimized 45, and it succeeds

@@Mirage5892 yep basically not to mention thicker brass as well which is why 45 super came around also followed by 460 rowland but 10mm continues to be the most powerful readily available production pistol round there is

Over penetration is exactly what you don't want in a self defense round. Lucky Gunner has done some outstanding work categorizing and testing the expansion of defensive ammunition. 45 ACP JHP loads can expand up to an inch in diameter. This type of expansion is guaranteed to do more damage to a threat as it passes through the body. There doesn’t seem to be a 10mm load capable of expanding up to an inch, with most coming in around .68 inches in expansion with a high of .81 inches in diameter. Do you want the round to shoot through walls or stop someone along with a larger entrance hole? Either way, you have to be competent with either.

I would say a round that penetrates a body dumps as much energy into the target as a round that doesn't penetrate if not more, because the amount of force required to do so is the same. Diameter plays a role as well of course. My feeling is that a round that is able to carry more speed through it's target in it's expanded state will do more damage than an identical projectile that stops. Most rounds were designed as FMJ rounds, so I don't think overpenetration was much of a consideration.

And the 10 mm does both better

10 goes right through the first person and into a second... not better@@halogod0298

​@halogod0298 Then you better know what's behind that barrier. Every bullet has alawyer attached.

Ammo dependent

well said

AMEN!

Underwood Ammo has great penetration and Stopping power.

What’s the best ammo for self defense in .45acp?

are you shooting 125 grain bullets? that seems excessive. Buffalo Bore doesn't go above 1300fps

Don't forget hard cast rounds as well

Bass

@@cedarhatt-vx8kf Nah, he's definitely more baritone than bass, although having a baritone speaking voice.... I bet he sings a beautiful bass tone.

Agree with this. Checked out the box info on my 10mm ammo and it is about 10% slower. The 45 is pretty close.

Underwood or Buffalo bore

@@MrErichonda30 Or DoubleTap or Grizzly or Steinel.

Double tap has been shown in multiple other testers with chronographs to blatantly over rate, the speed of their bullets and those the muscle energy. In my own comparisons up here in Alaska I find that double tap does not have the speed and that’s the kinetic energy of Underwood Buffalo boar, or the other rounds you’ve mentioned. That being said, double tap is still vastly superior to the Federal round which was tested! I would place double tap between the high-end boutique rounds like Underwood and Buffalo boar and your larger companies like federal, who refuse to load the 10 mm to the old more respects because the lawyers get involved and so large companies like federal will not load the 10 mm to its original Specifications and true potential. You can always trust lawyers to ruin anything and everything in life! @@exothermal.sprocket

The +p 45aarp i bought flies around 2150, i would be shocked if the perfect 10's top end is under 2500

.45 was actually designated as the smallest caliber necessary to dispatch bovine in the Thompson LaGarde tests in 1904. Tests which were conducted because during the Moro Rebellion, we were fighting against doped up Phillipinos who didn't care about getting shot with a .38 caliber. Enter the Thompson LaGarde tests where .45acp was proven as our next pistol caliber by dispatching cattle. John Moses Browning then designed the 1911 around the .45acp cartridge. So technically, you are right, but technically, you are wrong. That particular caliber was proven to kill cattle within 10 seconds of a lung shot. It'll kill a bear.. it'll also kill a doped up phillipino who dgaf about being shot with a 9mil

​@@lamegame420 the OP is not wrong, and it is rather bold of you to say so. He declared his use for the calibers.

Well, people can be bears, but could bears be people? 🤔

1 of them is replaceable by the other. 45 is garbage trash piece of shit hyped up to u on false premise of invalid testing on cows.

​@@lamegame420and that methodology is a joke

*ACP Auto Colt Pistol, not Armored Personnel Carrier. 😉

Lol I wouldn't throw those terms around on YT.

AARP has been sending me junk mail for years, they never mentioned that they had a .45 plan or version. 😂

That's how I feel about it. I've got a Springfield Armory XDM 10 mm and a 45. My first 45 was a Hi-Point. I think it weighed about 25 lbs LOL! I kid you not, I found a paddle holster for it but you could not wear it on your side. You had to get the belt so tight it would kill you or it just pulled your pants right down. It was a great shooting gun though. I need to go shoot the 10. I just bought it round before big bad hurricane Debbie came rolling in. I bought a bunch of Underwood Ammo for it. That'll get the job done!

Meh, I use a simple 9mm with hollow point... It's doubtful that it will go through a perp, and even if it does by chance, it's unlikely to go through the walls of my residence as the walls are concrete and chicken wire instead of drywall (because the building was built in 1912)

What is .10? .10 as in 10 caliber?

.10 isn’t 10mm. Shows you’re very uneducated. Of course you’d go with a 45 most uneducated people do. You don’t understand or know what 10mm is. You can go from 135 or even lower in some ammo manufactures. Light bullet with 700+ ftlbs at the muzzle .40******* yes it’s not .10 it’s .40 cal bullet going 1600 fps out of a full-size handgun barrel expands rapidly and doesn’t penetrate that much. It’s simply research and doing your own testing. 10mm beats 45 all the way around because of its versatility.

@@abones900it’s like a toothpick but sonic speed, .10/000 😂

@@MrEli768 You'd be AMAZED at the penetration of a 9mm with a plugged cavity. Honestly, a plugged 9mm or 9mm fmj can penetrate more than a 5.56mm.

Yeah, and AARP is anti gun.

Boomer funds and their "muh two world wars" 45acp

Yes, the Automatic for Arthritic Retired Persons 😂

Hey now. 😂😂👴📜✒️

😆

Just one problem with your theory, hoss. He tested this with FMJ rounds.

And to add, I bet I can find more available off the shelf 45acp ammo, and much cheaper than 10mm. I carry federal PD in 230grain in my 45s. And nobody is going to use FMJ for personal defense unless you live in a backward stated like NJ.

Umm the 10mm has more energy and has a larger permanent wound cavity. Not sure how that equates less stopping power

@@kfelix2934 I have handguns with both, its pretty much the same, aluminum blazer is even cheaper actually, brass blazer is like exactly the same as federal .45 or blazer .45

@@MasterTaters which on the .45 will still not over pen.

😂​@Nick__Gurr_

You telling me Sonny Crockett wasn't cool?

You are the OG

I agree, I'd like to see him redo the test with underwood and fort Scott ammo

@ryewaldman you can send him those rounds to test champ.

@@makevelicustoms 5 IQ comment.

Zero comparison. 10mm is superior in every way vs .45. Unless it’s being launched from a slingshot!

That's what I was worried about from the get go he used versions of both rounds I wouldn't. Buffalo bore makes both 220grain 10mm+p and 255grain 45acp+p rather that test

😂

😅😅😅

😂😂😂😂😂

@@edmondwhite6683 "force of the blow" is not a ballistics term.

@@edmondwhite6683 Please learn about ballistics, so you can attempt to make a valid point. Do you mean Ft.-Lbs. of energy? This is also super weak. Its an old outdated underperforming cartridge.

Funny you mention that I find I am more accurate with a .45 vs 9mm or 10mm

@@_oly_241 They say 9mm is more accurate than .45 ACP but that is rapid fire, only,

Caliber has nothing to do with accuracy

@haloreachmadman555 Depends on the person. I find I am more accurate with a .45 vs say a 9mm. Moreover, a .45 doesn't have that snap a 9mm has (using Glocks) so getting on target is quicker as well.

@@_oly_241 .45 has less snap than a 9mm? What are you smoking

Why cant you buy a 10mm? Just curious.

​@@hickboyjusthick698same

The wife going to scratch your eyes out if you do?

The 45auto is good enough for self defense anyway it has been for 100+ years.

@@hickboyjusthick698Probably the same reason I can't buy a .45? Out of 💵

10mm is really overkill for Man, PERIOD.

100%, underwood 200 great Hardcast is on par with the 41 mag, except you get 15 shots, not 6

​@@billyray332no such thing as overkill in a self defense incident

@@bigjon576 your crazy I See..

@@billyray332 how?

Pricey but you just need enough for a mag or two and then practice with it however often you deem necessary to see how it shoots through your gun. Definitely not plinking ammo. The home defense 12 gauge stuff i get is $2.50 a shell. Needless to say I've only shot enough to see how it behaves in my gun and the rest is guarded like gold bullion lol

567 ft lbs is weak for 10mm. Underwood loads 10mm to around 700 ft lbs. off the shelf 10mm is basically 40 S&W.

@@d-unit-outdoorsYup you really don't realize it till you actually look at the ballistics and compare. No more store bought defense ammo for me although I do trust Federal HST and Sig Vcrown in terms of reliability, the ballistics are just not as favorable.

@@bijk1911 Yeah for sure. If that’s all I had I’d trust it for sure! HST’s are amazing, that’s what I use for 9mm defense loads. But why not get full power out of it if you’re packing that extra millimeter. 😉

​@@d-unit-outdoorsThe Liberty copper monolithics are rated at 780ft/lbs of energy, and the expansion is insane as well, just remember that they are designed for two legged targets and not dangerous game in the back country...

Neither did .45 ACP

@@Enjoyer.762 single handedly read your scholars

They perform the same they clog up

I picked up a 10mm for the woods after reading that most Alaskan Rangers carry 10mm. I'm good if I never have an aggressive bear encounter, but apart from carrying a heavy .44 mag or 454 Casul, a 10mm with 200 grn ball ammo has shown to be effective against smaller (black) bears.

If you're going to carry a carbine you might as well just carry something like a Kel-Tec 12 gauge with slugs I did a bunch of research and the most common Grizzly defense gun in Alaska is a 12 gauge with slugs

True that a 12 gauge is a goto for very close encounters. But the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife and maybe even Troopers carry 10mm to give them a little more advantage against bigger encounters like bears.

I'm a trauma nurse. I've seen more wounds with a entrance and exit that caused more bleeding. the myth of a bullet not over penatrating is taken out of context

muh two world wars huh ?

Could you please explain in more detail? I'm Intrigued by your medical aspect . You say the myth about a bullet not over penetrating is taken out of context.

@@MrCora1212 Not really out of context. Majority of GSW are smaller calibers like the 9mm. From a medical standpoint, having an entrance and exit wound increases the rate that someone loses blood and increases the chance of the wound being fatal. From a defense standpoint, an exit wound is a bad thing. If you shot an assailant, and the round, after exiting the target, strikes anybody or anything of value afterwards, you're liable. The property owner can sue you, or an individual that was shot can sue and press criminal charges. So from a self defense standpoint, you want your round to create large temporary and permanent wound channels in shutdown organs and cause loss of fluids, but not go through the subject and strike another person or valuable object. The 45 ACP moves slower (around the 800-850fps) is less likely to over penetrate a target compared to a 10mm traveling around 1200-1300fps. Gun fight, you want to stop the threat and not get sued, .45 is more likely to do that than a 10 or 9mm round.

@@MrCora1212 He isnt talking about bleeding out over time. He means instant stopping power, like a instant shock to the system so they stop attacking asap.

I think the opposite is true: With 10mm you're getting all the overpenetration of a rifle with none of the ballistics advantages. With 45 you're getting less overpenetration with very good ballistics for a pistol caliber.

@@scottfree6479 With the extra 300-400 fps I get with carbine over my 10mm 1911, expansion would not be a problem. The 10mm, 357 Mag, 44 Mag all have enough powder capacity to make good use of the extra barrel length in a carbine. I see the same kind of velocity increase between my 44 Mag pistols and my 44 Mag lever gun.

​@@timclaus8313do they have 10mm carbines?

@@timclaus8313 Expansion is never the problem; overpenetration is. If you actually want to do serious damage then use a rifle pushing over 2700 fps at the muzzle. 300blk and 45acp are ideal for home defense because they won't overpenetrate and can be suppressed well. A 10mm might hit, what, 1500 fps? 1700 at best with a super hot load? That still isn't even close to what a 556 will do going at 3000+ 10mm really doesn't have any purpose. It's too powerful for a pistol and too weak for a rifle.

@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL Hi Point, Bear Creek Arsenal and Kriss all make 10mm carbines. Mine is a Bear Creek, AR pattern, so it can use all the external AR 15 goodies, including the collapsable stocks, and uses standard Glock 20/29 magazines.

Exactly! I always get a kick out of u toobers that compare .45 to anything else and turn it into a d*ck swinging contest. Doesn't matter what caliber you have, even a .22 long rifle, you certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.

And that was over 50 years ago using FMJ on cattle that had no idea they were about to get shot. Get some meth head or pissed off bear coming at you, unless you separate the brain from the cord, it’s not stopping regardless of magic calibers.

.45 acp was designed for use on people and horse (horse cavalry was thing when it came out)

Original 45 Colt loads were designed to stop cavalry horses. 255gr doing 1050 fps. Later they were reduced in power due to difficulty of soldiers handling the powerful load. .45acp was designed to be similar to the later 45 Colt loads, not original.

I love his "targets", 6x6 wood, sand. IMO, those are backstops. Let's try gel.

@@jakerazmataz852 It's entertainment. His whole shpeel is more irony than anything: "Don't let ballistics drive you bananas!" Thing is, his ballistic testing is more recreational and doesn't generate any real useful information, unless you're hunting wood blocks, steel plates, or concrete bricks. Fun, interesting, but not particularly useful for defense or meat harvesting.

With the average size of folks in the US these days, the 10mm did not over penetrate.

Had to reread that jibber jabber. Over penetration doesn't matter as much as numbers do. 10mm always beats .45 ACP.

I was going to say the same thing. By the parameters set before the test, the .45 won.

Sorry, but 10mm beats 45, even when sticking strictly to the FBI standard. There are many loads to choose from. Also, CLEAR gel is NOT used for the FBI standard AND the block is only 16" long, which does not allow for the maximum 18" penetration for the FBI standard. Don't be biased.

​@@justinkase1360Wait, who's biased?

I carry mine from time to time. Underwood 135 and 155g. That 135 is going almost 1700fps.

The kick though, but yes it is powerful.

I've wanted one for awhile but mainly for hiking/ fishing in brown bear country.

Thats what I carry, G20 with Underwood xtreme penetrator. @@Leightr

​@@JMark-zk5pj best hope you aren't in a crowded area. You will hit other people with 10mm.

You make a good point. A 10mm is very powerful vs other choises. Matter of fact, if the 10mm passes completly through deer size game and in a woods it continues on, likely stops in a tree or in the ground. Inside a home, a pass through can result in a very bad and an unintended end result. IMO

As a matter of fact (not opinion), 10mm was created to be the superior self-defense caliber by most consistently penetrating deeply enough to hit vital organs and immediately stop bad guys, without overpenetrating. It is intended to bias towards the far end of the 12-18 inch penetration range recommended by the FBI. 12.5 inch by the .45 is barely passing. That's like getting a D on a test in school. The FBI also acknowledges no known actual overpenetration deaths or lawsuits by these calibers, so the fear of overpenetration from a defensive bullet up to 10mm is overblown. Now, .41 or .44 Magnum? Yeah, good luck keeping those within the penetration limits.

@@texasbeast239 Bullshit. The 10mm was created to supersede the .45 ACP by shooting faster & flatter, not to stop bad guys w/o overpenetrating, and it was around long before the F.B.I. post-Miami jello blasting tests.

My G20 with a light & laser is my "maybe a little more than the pocket pistol today" carry, my CTC lasered G21 is my HD gun, mainly cuz I eventually plan to suppress it.

@@faryldaryl3975 Collins, Cooper, Dornaus, Dixon never tried to get 10mm to penetrate like a hunting round. They tried to get it to hit targets and penetrate deeply on a consistent basis. And their mission was accomplished. Nobody said anything about the 10mm being invented by the FBI. The only bullshit here is your reading comprehension.

Boomers are gonna be big mad.

.45 +p or if you're super froggy, .45 +p+ (aka .45 super).

@@DustinS. 45 super requires thing not all 45 pistols have, a fully supported chamber. Which is why I like 450 SMC so much. It only requires the pistol to be rated +P.

Or just get an LAR Grizzly in 45 win mag

@@argonzeit a 1911 just needs a different barrel. A USP or HK45 are good out of the box

Or a conversion kit for .460 Rowland@@Grooove_e

The last US Army was made in 1942. Just sayin.

@@ghinckley68nope , it last until 1985 and some still use today .

@@ghinckley68 He never said it was army issue. Just that it was Viet Nam era.

@@BlackSpade72 No the last 1911a1 was bought in 1942 in vietnam he would not got have kept the sidearm. Everything belongs to the base you do not get to take it home. the only way he still has was he claimed it was lost and snuck it back into the country. in 1985 most all remaining 1911a1s were transferred to the marines. If you in basic training qualified with 1911 you could keep it for the reminder of you career. But it stated in the armory. after 2001 or so when you retired you could by the weapon. mine cost 22USD. It was made by Reminting Rand in 1942.

and what kinda cosplay uniform is that. If your going to dress up and play soldier at least ry to get the uniform correct.

Complete and utter bullshit. The whole reason 30 carbine was developed was because .45 loads back then were anemic when compared to today, and were shit at penetration.

45acp worshippers are something special

@@FirstnameLastname-do1px Uh man, you gotta remember the common pistol rounds of the day; it's not exactly bullshit. 7.65 longue, .32 acp, .380 acp, 9mm luger; it is superior to all of those in the factors he mentioned provided they are all using FMJ rounds. Today it might be more of a joke as FMJ; back then it was the strongest commonly available pistol caliber; and .30 carbine is an intermediate caliber so it's not really in the running, thats like comparing apples to fish sticks. Also I think he meant World War 1, and in urban combat within 50 yards; weapons using this caliber off handgun round(key word, handgun) Had an advantage over the other commonly used, handgun ammunition supplied; *Sub- machine guns* So it's really an issue of context. The .45 acp also existed for 37 years longer than the .30 carbine, which only achieved widespread distribution toward the latter half of ww2; and then mostly in the hands of 2nd line troops. Also during the korean war and vietnam, the .30 carbine was heavily lamented by those who wished they had stronger, longer reaching cartridges like 7.62x51mm nato; they would even chose 5.56 over that if given the opportunity during vietnam which was the last common use of .30 carbine. Fudds today say .30 carbine was bad, 5.56 was bad, and 7.62 nato was even bad in comparison to .30-06. Before the .45 acp entered service I'm sure german fudds thought anything that wasn't at least 9mm luger for pistol caliber was also bad but they got one upped on that in less than 4 years.. So really man, you just come across as a fudd; and nobody likes fudds.. Don't compare burgers to burritos...

Yeah trying to tell us that a automatic 45 Thompson wouldn’t kill people…

Truth

2 holes

Nah, comparing 10mm vs Buffalo Bore .45 +P: the 10mm has 50% more muzzle energy and a smaller frontal area. A .45 +P load is 800J. A standard 10mm is 900-1300J. Even compared to the .45 +P the 10mm is closer to the .44 Magnum in ballistics 1000-1400J. (.41 Mag is actually REALLY close in bullet size, weight, speed, case volume, and muzzle energy) Also worth noting that you could be 9:00 paying upwards of $2 per round for those Buffalo Bore +P rounds, and every normal 10mm hits harder than that for $.40-$.60 per round. That only matters so much, but you have to shoot a few of those +Ps before you need them because they are SPICY compared to a normal .45 and it can be like shooting a whole new gun. I’m not saying it’s better, just different. .45 is better at stopping in a target causing maximum tissue damage. The 10mm is better at punching holes, whether that’s barricades or body armor. The greater energy just lends a bit more versatility to the 10mm allowing it to really shred some hollow points.

well I agree with you, actually. I only use the buffalo bore stuff for potential dangerous game encounters. I found the Lucky Gunner Labs data to be quite useful and interesting for comparing penetration potentials of different loads and for my uses, the ACP fits the bill. I like the 10mm but I don't own one yet. But I will. @@jkent9915

Any 10mm load is going to completely pass through wasting all it's energy even if it manages to expand. It's better suited for hunting. But the 45 is going from about 700 mph to 0 in about 1/10th of a second inside a body. You be the judge

The 9mm had benefited hugely from improved bullet design over the past 30 years. Most of the negative opinion of it going back to the 1980s and 90s were due to projectiles that did not function optimally within the velocity envelope of the 9mm Luger round.

The same people that say 9mm isn’t enough are the same that bash the AR, clueless and zero experience types.

@@HWG-wm8ld You have to clarify enough for what. For close range defense against threats of around human size and smaller 9mm with modern projectiles is pretty effective. If you might have to deal with a wounded moose or angry bear, other rounds may be a better choice.

10mm (and 44magnum and other powerful cartridges for that matter) can be made to penetrate whatever depth you desire, just use lighter bullets that expand.

Got both! No complaints!

Agree.

It's loaded to function to the 12-18" penetration. It's also loaded with the 40s&w bullets and driven to velocities that keep it from exploding in the target. Cheap, effective, and they can charge you more.

M​@@bobjohnson1633

Agreed, Buffalo and Underwood pack a punch

Sir, with respect.....have you considered a .45-70 wheel gun? 🤣

@@gotindrachenhart I would love a .45-70 wheel gun, but I had 2 rifles in that caliber and they both had "substantial recoil". It is tough to think about that amount of recoil in my hands. I have shot .44 , .357, .41 mags so I can handle a good amount of recoil, but I don't want to shoot anything that hurts my hands that badly anymore.

@@scottroder5516 ha! Fair enough man! Closest I've come to that is .444 Marlin and that was pretty punishing. I was just trying to think of a commonly available big bore one could reasonably pack around that would be effective vs bear etc :D

Taking down a bear with a pistol? lol I've seen the shot with a 308 and run like hell!

@@MinnesotaBeekeeper a .45-70 pistol