It's interesting how a lot of western readers love the cultural revolution part of the story and find the second not as good for not including something equivalent. For Chinese people, the cultural revolution is just a background setting and they find the second book far more interesting. Contrarary to popular belief, cultural revolution is not censored in china, most people know that is a bad thing that happened.
I wonder why that is. I suspect that Westerners think of it as a cautionary tale aspect. For me, it's less about that and more about grounding speculative fiction to real historical and social contexts. For example, I like Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles far more than most hard sci fi of the era including keystone titles in the genre (not a huge fan of Dune, for instance). Martian Chronicles, although incredibly inaccurate and light on the actual sci fi, touches a lot more on the human element. The cultural revolution in TBP is definitely more background but it grounds the motivations in a very real way more than sci fi for the sake of sci fi tends to do.
Great video! I’m a Chinese reader here. As far as I know, the absence of ball lightning related contents in the English version is not the translator’s fault. I think it was the decision from the editor and publisher. Because at the moment when dark forest were published, ball lightning haven’t been translated yet, maybe they don’t want there to be some parts that confuses readers. It was in the original book because in China ball lightning was published earlier than the three body problem series, and Liu’s fan were pretty familiar with that story. But personally, I think it’s a pity not to include the ball lightning part in the English version, I read the three body problems first and it was not confusing actually. And it made the the story feel more epic when you read the other book. It feels like they are in the same universe
I didn't know this. Thanks for the insight! I'll have a more in depth video on this book with spoilers coming out next week. Really excited for End. Will probably tackle it in March.
So I read the Chinese version only but I didn’t notice much story about the ball lightning. Did I completely missed it? I didn’t read the original Chinese version where they had the culture revolution in the very beginning. I read the published version and I know that the publisher had made decisions to change and omit certain parts from the original version.
Actually, I have read the book in both languages. I can't describe the main differences. My native language is Chinese. The three books are very consistent in Chinese in terms of the way of narrating the story, especially the wording. by that, I mean the choice of words. the other thing, that I feel personally is that the feeling of connection between the reader and the characters is lost in the second book (English) somehow. whereas in the Chinese book and the 1st translation of the three-body problem, I can almost feel the character, their emotions and their thoughts. It is just that the translated DarkF is not as smooth as the three-body problem. I feel like Ken could do better. Death's end is very well translated by Ken Liu, that feeling is back. I prefer Ken's translation personally. I think he had a good touch on this amazing trilogy. I like your review of the book. I feel the same reading them.
My copy of dark forest was translated by Joel Martinsen, did Ken Liu do one too? It makes sense that the second book lost that connection to characters since it is a different translator.
Glad to find someone who appreciates the fascinating and profound cultural elements of the first book. People misprize the 3BP most for it is not "hard" enough in SF ideas like the second and third ones. I don't think the author "failed" in the sci-fi concept of 3bp, he just chose to do a different thing in the first book which gives a very special flavor of thick culture and a sense of reality. I love all the historical contents very much of 3BP, which is very unique in SF books.
Navigating the role of authorial intent is an area of a lot of debate. Where do you stand on it? I think it's very difficult to separate cultural reference from a book whose main character is directly affected by cultural forces, particularly with the intro to Three Body Problem. At the same time, I don't mean to infer his stance or anyone else's stance on those issues, merely that they play a heavy role in the story which I enjoyed.
I kinda thought the change in cultural perspective between 3BP and Dark Forest were due to the necessity of broadening the scope of the response to the looming crisis threatening the globe. It’s still mostly centered around Asian protagonists, but the cooperation between them and Western characters does still (IMO) reveal some cultural insight by virtue of the roles played in the “plan”.
It's definitely not a downside and I think it's necessary to move on from that. That's not what the series is about and it gave a context for the initial set up. It's just an inherent difference in direct theme. It's just something I noticed given how much that part hooked me in pt 1. And you're right there is more dynamics between more cultures that add a different aspect to this one. I thought there was particularly a contrast between who I would consider the 2 main characters of the 2nd book . . . But I'll get into that in the spoiler review next week.
I loved the whole trilogy. I do find it interesting that there are some experienced reviewers who don't much like this series, and I think it comes down to what you expect in a book. The characterization is not great, and the prose can be clunky (being a translation that's not so suprising) but if you are looking for ideas, and a unique way of thinking, then all of these books deliver in spades.
I'm not a huge science fiction reader but I'd love to know what their idea of good sci fi is. I've read Dune and I put this miles ahead of it in every category of storytelling, depth, and even style. Are they used to more accessible books? I think the characterization for characters like Ye Wenjie is perfect and that's probably another reason why 3BP connected with me more. But we're clearly not here for moody introspection (Luo Ji notwithstanding). I also think that readers have to take some things for granted when reading this, such as general perspectives and ideologies of non-Western cultures that Western readers fail to connect with. Maybe writers like Ken Liu do a better job at translating those concepts stylistically for a Western audience, but that takes nothing away from Cixin Liu's work, imo.
I wish I could go back and read the first book without any knowledge of what it's about whatsoever. Imagine getting halfway through it to discover it's an alien invasion story rather than a science heavy murder mystery. The pacing and rollout of plot elements in it were perfect in my opinion.
I loved all the books for their different reasons. Cixin has such a great mind. 3 body problem was soooo cool tho. The VR part just pulled me in moreso than other sections of his series. The first time i read the series i was upset it didnt continue on that path but obviously we understand why. Great reads. Fantastic review as well mate
Literary Death across the multiverse. Pound them until they experience each and every ounce of pain they have inflicted and reduce them to accepting complete death, without an afterlife to dream about or a nightmare to hope for.
I am one of those who preferred the Dark Forest over Three Body and I think I'm preferring Death's End over Dark Forest (haven't finished). For me it took a while to get into the Dark Forest's rhythm (even longer in Death's End) but goddamn, each book having its own pace tone and style made me enjoy one over the other simply 'cause the entire thing also feels like this large tapestry and each book gives a bigger look at that tapestry ?
Being a Chinese, Ken Liu is such a master translator that I feel his translation is even more fluid than the original. Joel Martinsen is a good translator, but Ken Liu has much deeper understanding about Chinese culture as he knows when to localize and when to translate literally with a footnote of explanation. As Rico pointed out, Tyler's ultimate plan has been altered to avoid spoiling Ball Lightning. Tyler, being a master military strategist, is a highly experienced and intelligent person. His Ball Lightning plan is quite brilliant albeit morally ambiguous. However, altering his plan made him both stupid and morally questionable.
This is a fantastic video! I just finished part 1 of the dark forest and really enjoying it, but it absolutely is a significant shift in story structure and atmosphere
Just finished the series. My preference is towards short story sci-fi, so this series was an eye opener in its depth & detail. Personally I favor Three Body Problem, probably due to its introduction of plot, concepts, characters. Within following books the original context of Chinese social revolution becomes more implicit than explicit, with references scattered throughout most of story. Enjoyed your review.
The Dark Forrest concept is in my opinion the most insightful idea about life and by extension the cosmos in any sci fi book I can think of. It also breaches fiction into reality, as it makes absolute, 100% sense. It dispells the Fermi paradox ("where are they?") with simple logic with perfect clarity.
Wow so glad that you continued the review on this trilogy! I enjoyed so much of your review on the first one that I'm really looking forward to your reviews on other books as well. I do have a question regarding the second book. I see one female reviewer on RU-vid mentionning the sexism shown in the story. I'd like to know whether you have noticed it as well or is it a thing for you? I'm a Chinese speaker and I don't think I've seen people talking about this book from this particular perspective in China. It could be culturaly related that's why I'm interested in knowing whether you find the female characters in the second book too "weak".
I didn't recognize any overt sexism in the second book but we often miss those aspects that don't impact us directly, so I'm not sure. I think Wenjie played such a pivotal role in the first book that it might have set an expectation for strong female leads that just didn't persist in the second book. I don't even remember a main female character outside of Keiko Yamasuki who wasn't even really a main character. Maybe it was the aspect of Ji's infatuation with the woman he imagined and how she later merely existed to fulfill his desire? I'm not convinced this is a very strong argument, though. Those are my only two guesses but I'd be happy to hear otherwise.
@@erictheread9409 Yes it's because of Luo Ji's wife. I kind of think she's a bit cartoonish in most of her depiction(There's also someone in the third book which i'm not going to ruin it) Maybe it's kind of sexism, depicting women in a really naive and childish way. This is the influence of Japanese manga i suppose. If you play any Chinese mobile game apps, you'll notice a similar trend in the design of the female characters(for example, Genshin Impact) But overall, i wound't say the whole trilogy is sexism.
E, Agree. Characters in 3BP are vivid and the cultural context is ever-present; e.g. Ye Wenjie, Wang Miao, Da Shi. TDF not so much. Ty for your excellent critique.
Nice review. I'm only about 100 pages in, and the tone is different. The writing style seems a little looser to me and Cixin seems a little less confident with certain characters. I am still at the stage in the book waiting for everything to start coming together. I am enjoying it, though! I did notice the complete lack of traditional chapters for tons of pages, however. Not sure how I feel about that yet.
And indeed I also became obsorbed into the story because of its NATURAL link to the culture revolution(CR) background in the first book. Many artists use the CR story to sell better in the west because they know it's a popular theme. The sadder the story, the better. After the first few pages I was thinking: Okay, another clichee story on the cruelty of the CR. But then, the transition later into the SciFi part is so natural and so real i got hooked immediately. I don't think these elements are missing, as you said, in the second book. They are just not as well done or as important as in the first book. It's a bit over simplified in the second book.
Absolutely! It's not a book about the CR so I shouldn't expect it to drag on about it. It served its purpose perfectly in the first book and now we're on to whole new themes in the second book. I just finished recording my thoughts about the characters, plot, themes, and ideas in the second book this afternoon and now have to edit down this 30 minute monster. So much to talk about.
@@erictheread9409 Can't wait to hear the rest of your thoughts! My personal favorite thought on this trilogy is about its continuous grand moments of surprise. I just keep getting electric shocks from book 1 to 3. Last time I had that feeling was from watching Breaking Bad when Mr. White dropped the explosive in the face of the drug dealer ;-D
@@erictheread9409 There's also another interesting comment I saw from the discussions in China. It's about critising the first book not being "literary" enough. This comes especially from other non-scifi writers. They call it too plain to read. I think you've also mentioned this in your review, that you prefer his direct way of delivering the message. What's interesting is that Liu CiXin actually took notice of these comments and made a change in the second book, putting more traditional "literature elements" in. I must say it worked on me. That scene in the tomb of Wenjie with the ant when he made the deal with the aliens, really left a deep and lasting impression on me, a moment of beauty.
