Great informative review, many thanks. My own view on the 12 speed cassette ratios comparing Shimano with SRAM is as follows. When Shimano introduced the 51T cassette they made a big thing of how there was less of a jump to the 51T from the next cog down (second to first gear). Ok, that's fine, and in isolation it is to be applauded. However, in a 12 speed system you can't have close ratios 'everywhere'. There has to be a compromise, you have to choose where you need the closer ratios within that 10/50 or 10/51 spread. Shimano decided to 'share the ratios out' more across the entire cassette. On the other hand, in my opinion, SRAM's 12 speed ratios are closer WHERE THEY NEED TO BE CLOSE. Both cassettes are 'neck and neck', the same from 10T through to 28T. Shimano then configure 33, 39, 45 and 51. But, providing closer ratios for the next THREE cogs, SRAM continues 32, 36, 42 then finally a 'jump' to 50. Yes, a jump to 50, boo hoo. Here's the rub, for most riders, that 50T (or 51T) is your get out of jail card, your last chance when you're crawling along almost stalling, to get up a very steep climb. It doesn't really matter much how close it is to the previous cog, but more so that it's gonna get you up that steep climb. Conversely, on the many climbs where you don't need that last chance 'get out of jail card', fifty-toother, you'll appreciate closer ratios between your second and fourth gears, and that's what SRAM's solution gives you. It was clever of Shimano to state that their cassette had a more even spread of ratios as if it was undeniably a better design - and without thinking about it too much, a lot of riders would instantly buy into that belief, but the truth is, SRAM's 'clever' ratio spread is better for most riders. BTW, I have bikes with both Shimano and SRAM drivetrains, in fact more Shimano. They're both great companies and long may they do battle to improve the equipment that we fit to our bikes.
Excellent video. One question please: I bought a low-cost bike, GT Avalanche elite 29 ", with these characteristics: - SR Suntour XCR 32 Air RLR DS w/ 100mm Travel, Magnesium Lowers, 32mm Cr-mo Steel Uppers, w/ Post Mount Disc Brake, W/ Remote lockout W/Rebound and Preload, - Alex ASD10 Alloy double wall Disc, 32h, tubeless ready, - Formula QR front and rear, Quick Release, Center Lock, - All-Terra T-501, 36/22T, - VP Cartridge Sealed, - Chain KMC X10-1 - Cassette Shimano HG500, 11-42, 10-speed, - Shimano Deore FD-M618, - Shimano Deore Shadow, RD-M6000GS, - Shimano Deore, SL-M610, And I want to switch to Shimano XT. 1 Can my bike use XT? 2 What do I need besides the kit to upgrade? Sorry I don't like NX technology ... That's why I want Shimano. Greetings from Costa Rica, and thanks !!
it works, the channel LoveMTB has experimented on these and he found out it works. He currently runs an XTR set but with Eagle Cassette. Works smooth based on his vids.
Interesting... in a climate where innovation usually equals less compatibility, it's nice to know something that "shouldn't" work together actually does!
Mavic now also support micro spline on Their id360 hubs with upgradeable freehub bodies, now also all Their wheelsets from very cheap to very expensive support micro spline
Sean Murray “as good as eagle” - I hope not, I had two bike with GX Eagle it’s garbage quality I upgraded one of them to 11 speed XT. Btw more hub support is coming.
I've always been a Shimano fan, I run XTR derailleurs with XT shifters and XT brakes, very solid set up, and the shifting is effortless and instant. I'm still maintaining a 3x10 setup on a XT crank because you can still match your cadence much better than the single ring setup. Well for cross country anyway.
As a novice with rings and teeth count, can I grab some knowledge about what y’all are talking about by any chance? I know I can google it and such, just would rather talk with someone real etc. I’ve been biking for a while, just never got deep into specs other than brand/model. Thanks in advance.
@mikehawk120 GMBN RU-vid channel is a great channel to watch for this kind of information, they do a great job of breaking everything down in simplicity. There are some great bike fit channels, but sometimes can get a bit on the boring side for people not so into the deep spec side that just want an easier understanding. The GMBN channels are pretty entertaining too lol
Just because it can doesn’t mean you should. It’s fine to have for emergencies, but it’s best to avoid as it helps lead to chain/cassette mating quickly; which gets expensive.
The only time i ran Sram shifters was before Shimano did dual release and i really wanted my cockpit to work better with one finger braking. Shimano just feels better!
New hub Driver + New I-Spec (mess!!) = No thank you. I'm staying on 11Sp with a front ring that's optimized for my riding. Great overview (if a little bias) though thank you!
@@mr.wizeguy8995 Are you questioning my gearing selection? I have spent many hours looking at my ratios via watching videos and excel spreadsheets, I have worked out what ratio I can push in my area. Not enough time is spent by most people to consider the front sprocket in x1 setups, most people say "I need a lower gear" and then they throw thousands of $ to get the latest x1 system SRAM/Shimano/etc when what they should be doing is getting the correct front sprocket for the area they ride in. Don't ride a 32 just because that's what's in the box or on the bike. If you want more range then you should be on a 2x system, run a 26 + maybe 38 and you will get all the range you need. Also my x11 is dirt cheap even in Australia, chains are ~20$ and my cassettes are ~$100. The might last longer to because a wider chain.
@@nedt No, i said same what you did. Meaning if you are driving MTB/Fatbike on off road one extra gear doesn't offer anything because you don't need any bigger gear or smaller when you are using 1x11.
@@nedt I’m old school and I agree about the 2X systems. 1Xs just don’t have enough range for hardcore riding. They’re great if you’re going straight onto an XC course or you’re riding casually, but for doing everything when training AND racing XC, I would want more gears ⚙️ in the high end. Plus I don’t like those extreme chain lines with 1X systems; it’s going to speed up chain/cassette mating and the steps between gears seem pretty big. 🤷♂️. Just my $0.02.
I like the fact you can buy a 12 speed shifter and put it on your 11 speed and there's a screw you turn to change the 11/12 speed shifting on the shifter
@@benlawton5420 I dont. If only you knew the rock gardens around my area. There are entire mountain sides consisting of nothing but car sized boulders.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 Then you should know that no matter what, a rock can be flung up by your tyres or you might accidentally get a bit too close to one.
Just did my first ride on a full XT 1x drivetrain. It's so smooth and nice! And for where I ride, I'm going to really enjoy 32x51 gearing on my 160mm travel mullet bike. I disagree that people are only going to want a 51t cassette when they go to a (xc race setup) 38t ring.
The best shimano shifters and rd that i ever used is the shimano saint, soft shifting and multi release, this 10spd saints are different from any groupsets of shimano even xtr is no match to this rd and shifters.
Hey, you forgot the the maintenance button on the rear derailler that SRAM got!!! 💘 And one question: is it at the shimano crank possible to change the sprocket without removing the crankarm? Best regards
@@TonchoTonev No, I had two bikes with GX Eagle and after their 11 speed X01 that I really liked before, I found the GX Eagle a cheaply made garbage. Very flimsy out of the box and even the grass can bend the cage. I upgraded one of them to 11 speed XT and I have one more to go. My friend's carbon Stumpjumper came with NX Eagle and it's even worse...
@@tamasvarga67 In my experience, NX Derailleur is trash. The NX Derailleur should work in concert with the NX Shifter. Wrong! They fight each other like school children! They can't agree with each other and the shifting turns out horrid. Even worse, the Guide R brakes. Wow! I'll never buy a "prebuilt" bike again. Always frame only. ALWAYS! Like building my own PC rig. So much freedom!
If it feels like the Shimano 11s XTR shifter I like it allot better then sram, I also love the double release. I have sram and shimano bikes and when ever I ride the sram setup I miss the double release. I also like the closer spaced cassettes, to me even the 10-45 is too much. I wish they made one that is the same as the 11-40 11s cassette and just added the 10t to it, I'm more of a endurance rider and I like having more cadence options and I can climb with the 40t no problem. Anything steeper and I can't get traction or keep the front end down anyway.
A bit off topic but I just bought my dream bike, a full carbon Intense Sniper with 12 speed Eagle Sram GX/XO I am coming from 2014 XTR 3x and here are my early observations. 1. I need to get stronger and a lower than 32 front ring. I am used to having a 22 x 36 grannie and the 32 x50 is too tall. At least here in BC where there are hills then maybe s really steep rock section and there is nothing for me to grab in that situation. 2. Up shifts are noticably slower on the SRAM. Dunno if its just because of the GX shifter(cassette and rear mech are XO) but XTR almost immediately shifts whereas SRAM takes a moment. Could also be the larger steps between gears? Finally, unlike my XTR the SRAM did not like me ham fisting to the big cog under stress. Again, I suspect this is due to the large jump in gears but this surprised me . I thought the chain might make some noise but still do it but it actually ended up way UP in the smaller cog area. I am not totally disappointed, the GX shifter feels really crisp and generally the shifting was good but it didn't live up to the hype I expected. like the rest of the bike.
Make sure, you have all adjustments right, because the Eagle should shift at least as fast, as the older XTR. Shifting to the biggest sprocket always feels a bit tight, as it is really huge.
So perfect system is in between these two. Double shift is great idea. And once i tried it, it worked exactly as i want. Same with instant release. But SRAM was first in 1x world so many bikes have it in stock. Cage lock is amazing for maintenance. And i still can buy SRAM parts online while Shimano send you to local dealers with higher prices. Also i don't need 12 speed because it costs more. Must have if you are pro or strong competitive rider. Otherwise just don't worth it. 1x11 or even 1x10 are cheaper and will fit almost any amateur xc racer
@Jeremy R i mean Shimano recently changed their delivery policy in many countries. It was like week before launch of these new 12 speed groupsets. So with all that in mind just gimme double shift on sram please 😁
Strange, i actually find that it's the amateur riders who need 12 speed otherwise they end up walking uphill where stronger riders climb 2 gears lower... Also In practice - semi-pros are happy with 11 (because they have to change cassettes etc every year or more) and amateurs are happy with 12 because they last them years
I had XT on my old bike then got GX on my new bike. Just switched back to XT. I like the feel of the GX as it feels like less force needed to press the lever but Shimano has everything else better. I've also found GX to be more finicky and less reliable. XT wins hands down
I have owned both XT and XTR systems. I have found with the older XTR’s they were a little more taunt And snappy. They both are enjoyable, but there is a difference. That said I am running Sram eagle right now with the twist shift and love it.
well i just love my SRAM Cagelock, makes working on the raod or wherever soooo much easier and as far as I know, shimano hubs are only with that centerlock stuff our days and I simply dont like it,
centerlock is awesome for the ease and quickness when working with it. i prefer to have centerlock hubs, and use 6-bolt adapters, which combines advantages of both - quickness of centerlock installation/removal and brake rotor choice from all the 6-bolt models. i think dt swiss as doing that for their wheels, centerlock hubs delivered w 6bolt adapters.
Wow! A single lever for the front derailleur?! Whatever will they think of next?! No wait! A single shift lever used to be the norm, remember? I know, I know! It’s different because you push the same lever for both directions, instead of pushing and pulling. It just seems like they could have had a single lever all this time and made it less complicated. I still use old school lever shifters on my bike and have never had an issue.
Danny, you make a great job over here!!! I'm about to improve my current Sram NX 1x11 drivetrain. I think of mounting Deore M5100 and XT M8000 shifter. What do you think about that change? Will the Sram cassette be compatible with Shimano rear derailleur? Thanks in advance for your opinion
Try out the XT or SLX. They are a bit smoother than XTR. The XTR is so firm because that makes shifting in very rough terrain more precise (so you don't accidentally shift more than you want) SLX feels a lot smoother.
@@sebastianjost yeah, just like the old m9000 when slx shifter was a lot smoother than xt and xtr. I´ve tried a combination with Sram and Shimano a couple of weeks. I used an Eagle X01 shifter, Shimano XTR(m9100) derailleur, gx Eagle cassette and gx eagle chain. It worked surprisingly good the first two weeks with a brand new chain but then it starts ticking and making a lot of noise. I got so frustrated so I bought a whole Shimano upgrade kit. Shimano and Sram are NOT meant to work together.
Don`t agree , i use x0 groupset with m9100 shifter, because u can use decrease speeds by x2 fast then with sram :D So only good thing in new xtr or XT is only shifter :D
Being on Sram for a few years, now im full shimano, new xtr rear der, xt shifter, i spec ev xt brake levers paired with my saint calipers, xt 10-51 cassette with xtr 12s chain, wolftooth shimano 12s DM Chainring on my RF cinch cranks.. For me shimano is so much more refined and solid, set and forget, shifting is superior, shifting under load, its RIP SRAM for me. Useless engineerring on eagle
@SickBiker do you prefer Shimano or SRAM? I ride SRAM GX 12s on MTB and 11s Ultegra(Mechanical) on Rodebike. My tougths are, to change to 2*12 SHIMANO on MTB, i'm a little SHIMANO Fanboy i think 😁. Most important for me would be the narrower split between the gears at 2*12s on MTB. Regards from Germany 🙋🏼♂️
The new slx is about £300 where as the new gx is just below £500 and the new xt is just over £500 so I would say xt is more inline price wise with gx than slx
Uall Shimano has so much technology 😂, it explane why they need 3 year to release a copy of sram ! I hope shimano get back to the market , competition is good for costumers.
Tamas Varga , 1x12 , oversize pulley , 10 tech cog , radios finish on the chain side bar . I’ have a two years old groupset with this innovations. All old stuff with new name .
djovetta The same number of gears and the 10T cog doesn’t make it a ‘copy’. Also, the chain/derailleur is ancient tech, adding one more gear in every 3-4 years is a tweak to this ancient tech not an innovation.
Tamas Varga , assuming your point of view , there is some innovation on this new groopset ? The concept behind the 1x12 , oversized pulley , 10 cog was release by sram . Look a old xx1 1x11 , and a xt 1x11 . What’s groopset the new XT looks like ? With company are responsible to drive the characteristics of 2020 groupset ? I’m happy to se shimano trying to get back on MTB market . Looking 2019 mtb catalogs , you will see that shimano is almost out of market with bikes price range of 1k usd to 10k usd
djovetta Adding one more cog/gear and a bigger pulley is not ‘innovation’ in my view regardless of which company is doing it that’s all. Pinion or whatever comes to replace the derailleur and the cassette with the pizza sized cog is innovation, everything else is just incremental improvement - although 11 speed is enough for most semi-fit riders.
The conplete XT groupset as a priority pack is available since today (from some "priority sellers) this set includes a Shimano mug and cap. SLX and all other items will be available in about a month.
While we are talking about drive trains... Can I get some advice for an upgrade path on a crappy 3x7 freewheel system.. With the not mtb worthy tourny ty300 derailleur.. I like the 3x but the 7x freewheel sucks. Any suggestions for a better 7x freewheel? and the derailleur.. Where to look or where to buy online..
7 speed freewheel is the best you can get, I suggest upgrading to cassette. You will need a new freehub for modern casettes or a whole new rear wheel. I think Shimano Alivio or Acera have pretty good value for money, they are 3x9 or 2x9. You will also need a new bottom bracket for 2 piece Hollowtech crankset, shifters, derailleur. You can also upgrade your brakes.
The shimano megarange or megadrive, I forgot what it's called is as far as you can go without switching the back wheel or lacing a new hub. That 2×9 is the way to go like 1973 said but I wouldn't buy online, if you get a bike shop to switch the back wheel, they will make sure the wheel fits in your bike and doesn't rub the seat and chain stayes. Man these bike companies don't want you to upgrade 3x7 freewheels so little complications are thrown in, they want you to buy another bike with the freehub. By the way, that megarange only cost about $20 which you may already have on the bike, if not , definitely put one on. RJ the bike guy YT channel has a lot about upgrading 3×7
Thank you lot for the tips. If i was to "upgrade" my derailleur can I stick any better 7 speed shamino on my bike? Or are the differences between derailleurs (even same speed ones) so much that i need to change the shifter with it?
@@Mr.P.Griffith the best you'll get for a freewheel, as far as I know, is the megarange cassette. The problem with 7 speed is that is a very outdated tech nowadays. The bare minimum I'd recommend you to go with is Alivio 2x9, they offer it in 3x9 as well, and there are SunRace 11-40T wide range cassettes to get even better ratios for climbing, but I'd save a bit more and go for Deore 2x10 and the official 11-42T cassette. You could also go for an used SLX, but I wouldn't recommend that if you don't know much about drivetrains.
Im confused. I have nonboost frame (GT Sensor Carbon Expert 2014) with 12x142 Hope Pro 2 Evo (Im waiting for microspline hub, which will be avaible soon). I want go from 3x10spd (24-32-42 + 11-34) to 1x12spd (36 + 10-51). I know that new XT cranks has 3 variants (8100,8120,8130), which has different Q-Factor and chainline. The 8100 crank variant says that it is for O.L.D. 142mm and 148mm together - but it has 52mm chainline. Isnt 52mm chainline boost? Can I go with this cranks or not? My actual triple (FC-M780) has chainline 50mm. BTW: XT 2x12 cranks has chainline 48,8mm....
Most of the experienced people i asked don't use their index finger with 2-way release (it's mostly used by newbies at first since they confuse levers). Multi-release is maybe important for shimano because of how much harder their triggers are - with sram you just click a few times since it's so light. Instant release doesn't add anything in reality aside for that cable/chain "bang" noise as you release (hated it since 10S). But most important - why so expensive? I really hoped it will be cheaper, especially the cassette as the main cost factor. Otherwise it's more like "5 things sram don't have and don't need"
3:23 front derailleurs aren't dead, but they're going to extinct in the near future. 8:35 cup and cone are a bike mechanic's nightmare. I had several shimano hubs and now I'm using sealed bearings only.
I am kind a person who likes to disassemble clean and maintain the bike so I did not mind to go with cup and cone XT hubs. First thing was the cones becoming loose, rode a bike park on a loose front hub. Then while fixing that, found out they do not spin freely, so did a strip down, clean, re-lube. I ended up doing this several times during the
Hi,I really like one bike with 2x9 (scott aspect 930 2019) do you think it would be fast enuf for the pavement because I wold be doing moust of the riding there) ... is it much slower than 3x9 ?
I would say xx1 is better shifting quality in terms or smoothness than the xtr but the xtr is alot more durable and alot cheaper than xx1 but I would go with xt or gx as NX to xx1 or xtr is a massive jump that is not necessary unless you are a weight weiny and like to have high performance that's very light
It's also very expensive to replace a broken deraileur or worn out casette with the top end groupsets. But in terms of drivetrain I prefer shimano as I prefer the look and from a mechanical pov they are alot easier to service and work well for longer, they are also more durable
@@cannondany I do think Di2 hasn't got any disadvantage compared to the mechanical one. I really love the way it works specially if , like me, a person is not a racer or simply doesn't like to be messing around with cable adjustments or lacks the refinement a racer can have handling a neat shifting . I perfectly know the price is the downside so I really hope Shimano will make it down to another groupset different from XTR & XT allowing the price to go down to make it more affordable. Cheers
I believe yes. As long as they’re the same 11speed Shimano, the XT and XTR should be cross compatible. But check with a dealer when you purchase just to be safe.
Option this is the way. This 1× crazy as a standard is not a good way to think. Option vs no option? and for the one by standard, as the bikes should not cost that an extraordinary amount of money with limitations. That is cazy with a capital 'C' thank God for Shimano coming out with such options.. at least somebody's thinking about mountain bikers.
