These were good but fairly common for "probably didn't know." I like the idea, though Lesser known are allowable bathroom breaks, how/when to properly abandon a throw (no it does not need to be lost), requirement of a waiver for "Island holes" come to mind as ones I frequently encounter. Great conversations nonetheless as for some reason I enjoy interpreting rules.
Yup! I make sure I know the rules so people don't call me out on what they "think" are rules. They also help me out when the rules are to my advantage like the ones you mentioned.
@nathanfrazier8525 so many people "know" the rules but seriously suffer from Dunning-Kruger. My go to is first to be familiar with the rules for play as well as for event managemnt. After that, it's "show me in the rule book" when I'm questioned or go straight to provisional to keep up pace of play. Social media is a double edged sword. It gets a lot of people talking and aware of other rules but unfortunately it give people a false sense of understanding when all they do is listen to discussion of rules without reading the documents themselves. See the great "obstacle in lie" debate of last year.
I would love to see you cover the legality of disc tuning. 813.01 C 1 states that "Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics" would denote it as an illegal disc. A lot of players will purposely perform a series of bends around the rim of their disc before throwing in order to achieve greater over/under stability. I've also seen recommendations on how to heat your discs and bend them to get their stability back after the've been beaten in. That's the thing though. Discs naturally beat themselves in and that modifies the original flight characteristics, so what's actually considered an illegal modification? The line between purposely beating in a disc to be more understable while on the course vs running it over with your car repeatedly seems like a grey area.
I got this response directly from the PDGA last year: "In response to tuning discs, it is impossible to determine if flexing a disc is restoring or distorting the discs flight characteristics. Sometimes a disc needs to be flexed just to undo the effect of whacking a tree or being stuck in an overstuffed bag. If the flexing of the disc is to intentionally introduce a bend into the flight plate of the disc, then by all means it should be called. If the disc is still in a round, saucer like configuration, it would be hard to justify calling the disc an illegal disc without other evidence. The rules committee neither condemns nor condones the practice of flexing discs. If a violation clearly has occurred, it should be called."
This definitely falls under "prove it" protocol. Sure, you could suspect someone put their discs in the oven to flatten the dome, but you can't call it unless you can prove it, and the vagaries of disc production means there's no "correct" disc silhouette. Similarly, it's hard to prove that a little tuning before a shot is not just flexing out a taco from a pre-round tree hit.
1. Is flashing on a disc considered a small molding imperfection? Can you legally sand the flashing off a disc? 2. If wear and tear from play is allowed, is intentionally skipping, spiking, or hitting trees with a disc to speed up the seasoning process allowed?
1. Yes. per rule 813.01 B-2 "Moderate sanding to address wear and tear or small molding imperfections;" 2. Yes. As long as that intentional "seasoning" dos not violate 813.01 C-5 "Intentionally deforming a disc such that it is not in a circular, saucer-like configuration."
no he states that a putt counts if a disc is caught in the cage or just so happens to be supported on the cage nubs. If you land on top of the basket that is still a non-make.
2 questions, 1, is a disc that has been bitten by a dog illegal? How much damage to a base plastic disc would make it illegal? 2 is it illegal to mark the tee with chalk?
1. That depends if it is cracked or not. So it can be beat up, but if there is a crack in the plastic it is illegal. 2. It would be considered a directional aid as well as changing the course and its obstacles. Unless the TD drew something there for a reason. A player individually using chalk to mark a tee pad would be altering to course.
Can you address the new time clock penalty on tee time that has zinged several players? Do they have an official clock running at the first tee area? Are players made aware of the “official time” at a players’ meeting? How much too late have players who have gotten the 2 stroke penalty been? Has the enforcement of this rule been handled well and equitably, or has it been handled with all of the skill of the switch to the pdga live app?
So one question I have had is: Are manufacturer's stickers legal/illegal to leave on the disc? Since they are applied during production by the manufacturer and not post production they should be legal.
Just another case of the rules being unclear. (production according to the PDGA also includes hot stamping by manufactuers- including hot stamping by companies other than the manufacturer - ie Infinite Discs, DGA, or anyone who gets their discs made by a larger company - but not personal hot stamping [who knows where that line is drawn] - I woudl hate to be a TD that had to make that call.) I would agree that retailer stickers must be removed but anything the manufacturer has added is ambiguous.
@ronaldwitt Small correction, dye jobs CAN ABSOLUTELY change a disc's flight characteristics . I have seen several discs clearly deformed. I have seen dye jobs change the dome of the disc generally increasing but on one occasion collapsing the dome. I have also seen dye jobs soften the plastic again most noticeable in the dome. Prepping a disc, sometimes removing a stamp with acetone, and then applying coloring chemically alters the disc and regulating chemicals, techniques, and measuring any resulting alterations in flight characteristics is impossible.
If it's cold and wet, can I put my towel on my disc (between my hand and my disc) and throw the towel and the disc at the same time ? (the towel goes 10feet away and the disc doesn't hurt my hand...
A funny that isn’t necessarily a visual aid is when another player can’t see the basket because of obstruction from their lie and they ask if someone will hit the chains or talk loudly so the player can know if they are on target to the basket. I would assume this is illegal but haven’t tried to search it anywhere.
I wis hthe PDGA would clarify the directional aid rule. I've played numerous tournaments were a player asks for someone to shake the chains as a directional aid. I don't believe it to be legal but the rules aren't specific enough.
@@armlock311another one I'm confused about is the use of spotters. On a blind hole with big potential for lost discs, is it permitted to have someone on the card offer to spot, even if they stand off the fairway?
I think few players do have painted or stamped discs 🤔Which can be increasing weight or grip, but at least don't think its intentionally done so don't mind it too much.
One rule I’ve come to a disagreement with my buddy on is lost disc and the penalty. Would a lost disc from teepad would result in a re-tee with an added penalty (so throwing “third” throw) or is the re-tee itself the penalty and the thrower is on second throw? Oh, and Sic’em Bears!
Probably the 2nd most common rule that is broken, without knowing it usually: the use of discs above the defined Max Weight of the mold that is defined by the PDGA.
For the putt where they step through after putting. Isn’t that one illegal because they showed balance but did not wait for the disc to come to rest? I thought the disc had to be completely still.
"After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target." Nothing about waiting until the disc comes to rest, just that you show full control of balance behind the lie before moving forward, and of course that's only C1 anyway, C2 you don't have to show balance at all.
as long as as you consumed that beer prior to 2 minute mark before the round and the height of said crushed beer can is less than 3cm, then yes! Perfectly legal.
I see players putting or throwing discs with stickers on them ALL THE TIME!!! I politely let them know it's not legal and to remove them. It's only if they refuse that I take it to the next level. Personally, I think think the knowledge of an following of the rules is potentially the biggest issue in our sport today (aside from allowing men to compete in the FPO). I think in order to become a PDGA member, players should be required to pass a basic rules knowledge quiz. I'm talking real basic. I've seen countless times players not marking their disc before picking it up, practice putting on a back up of a hole, playing catch in the middle of a round, and step putting from 20'.
I was just going to ask this because I was in an A tier tournament and the lead card had a guy with them that was not playing but yet he would approach us chase card guys and then hang around after we left the area…. seeming to us like he was being a directional aid of some sort. It was weird.
I think many don’t know that you can’t throw a disc to another player that is standing more than 5 meters away. Then it will count as a practice throw 😅 809.03 Practice Throw A practice throw is any throw that is not made as a competitive attempt to change the lie, except for a throw that is made either to set aside an unused disc or to return a disc to a player and that travels less than five meters in the air. A drop is not a practice throw. A player receives one penalty throw for making a practice throw; the throw itself is disregarded and not counted.
I knew this was a rule from back in the day, but I thought it had been changed not too long ago to say you had to be set behind your lie for it to be considered a practice throw, which makes way more sense. Maybe they changed it back. Also, with that "in the air" wording, I guess you could technically throw a roller to someone 200' away as long as it initially lands less than 5' from you. Go figure.
Players must demonstrate balance behind the marker disc after releasing the putt and before advancing toward the basket. I had a discussion with players about this after I nearly fell on my face from a C1 kneel putt, but launched sideways with a backward twist and remained with no touching point in front of my Lie. They argued that I did not demonstrate balance. I had to point out that after falling.. I rolled onto my back.. stood up... showed ample balance... Picked up my marker, walked back and picked up my bag.... Only then did I "Advance toward the basket" You can be completely off balance after a C1 putt... as long as you don't advance beyond your lie while unbalanced (i.e you don't fall into the area ahead of your lie within C1). Useless extra info: I'm 55, so I sort of surprised the others throwing myself at the ground... but I spent a lifetime on motorbikes and MTB.. I'm used to coming in contact with terra firma the hard way. 🗑 🌳 🤾
6:55 that‘s a stupid rule that should not be followed, if it doesn’t make the disc noticeably heavier a painted disc should be ok (of course dye jobs are a different thing, but people should be allowed to draw on their discs with paint markers etc. and put stickers on them)
Define "noticeable." In a world where people will go out of their way to find a disc that's one gram heavier/lighter, one gram of paint can be considered significant.
Funny thing is, do they think we have some advantage from the mods? Except for over weight disc while a mod may change the flight path that isn't an advantage just a slightly different disc. It is also unlikely that a mod will change a flight path more than natural ageing of the plastic.
I’m calling stance violation on the example putt right after the one “picking up one’s mini”. That was one fluid motion forward with the left leg during the putting motion with no discernible “pause”. I think bringing both feet down prior to moving forward or incorporating an additional step like the mini retrieval would be more helpful and easier to observe by the rest of the card.
I've been concerned about overweight discs for a long time. The problem is that the manufacturers are letting overweight discs be sold as legal weight. They're stickered as legal, but when weighed they are actually overweight. The other problem is that plastic can get heavier over enough time. For instance I've been buying some older discs (20+ years old), and they can weigh up to 4 grams more than stated. I've never seen a Tournament Director go through someone's bag and weigh discs. But I like to know the exact weight of what I'm throwing, so I mark their weight. The last problem is that the weight can shift slightly depending on elevation and humidity. Thanks in advance, and thanks for helping the community to clarify the rules ai that we're all in the same page.
@@chrism4008 So the Manufacturer is selling Illegal weight discs on purpose? Most likely not. In my experience of over 20+ years around the game I've seen this happen over and over. Discs don't lose weight unless they're losing plastic.
@@chrisrhome6638 I think we've all experienced brand new discs that don't weigh what they're marked. Could be scale calibration problems, could be a fudge that lets everything up to 180.9 go out the door because it's likely going to a casual player anyway. But how on earth does "plastic get heavier?"
It was changed because of blind holes where you can't SEE if it went over the edge or not, so it could have went in, and got stuck in the basket going OUT, so just to simplify everything, they just said as long as it's supported by the basket or chains, it's good.
@@clintsawyer7702 Hey I hear ya but not sure how seeing it go in matters at all. If it's not at the bottom of the basket when you walk up to it then it doesn't count. I just don't like that a bad shot that was never going to go in the basket can count as good. Rules are rules and I will follow them.
@@chrmartubewell the rules as stated do not need to have it in the bottom of the basket. So you can disagree with the rules, but that doesn’t change them.
You said to demonstrate balance, you don’t have to put two feet down. I disagree, unless your body has at least two supporting points on the ground, you are not balanced. We are bipods and we cannot be balanced on one supporting point. U showed a few putts where the player takes long pause and picks up mini, those were both unbalanced and the momentum carried the player in front of their lie. When they finally put another foot down they are balanced and did not fully demonstrate balance behind the lie. The final completion of balance took place when the lifted foot touches the ground and weight is distributed evenly. If you’re standing when you putt, the only way demonstrate Full balance is to have two feet down or at least one hand or supporting point is holding you up.
Ballet disagrees with you and I will confess that I do as well. I agree that it is less deterministic, but balance is about equilibrium not the number of contact points. At the moment I sit on a three legged (four leg chair missing a leg) chair there are five contact points and very likely no balance.
That is not true at all. One can balance on 1 foot. Balance is dynamic and I would consider the ability to stand on 1 foot, bend down, pick up a marker disc, and then stand up to be in balance. You momentum or Center of balance moves forward in a putt and one can , and many do, use the rear leg as a counter balance.
The rule doesn’t say to maintain balance and not fall over. It says to demonstrate full balance before advancing. If someone were to do a pistol squat on one foot after putting that would establish balance because momentum was stopped and reversed. Your typical putt is an arm extension and a leg lift from a bipedal position. Until your appendages return to their original positions, there’s no way to demonstrate full balance. U can maintain a balancing act for a time, but it’s not complete
@cillondook the rule does not define balance, and it most certainly does not define balance as 2 feet on the ground. Technically, the minimum supporting points to maintain balance is a tripod. Static balance vs dynamic balance, etc Your assertion that balance is defined in the rules by 2 feet on the ground is simply false. The rules do not define balance, nor do they state how long balance must be maintained. They certainly do not state balance must be maintained forever. They are poorly written and thus open to interpretation. You do not have a monopoly on interpretation, nor are you the final judge, and I would certainly not second all of your calls if we were on the same card. Also, keep in mind that when in doubt, the decision is made in favor of the player.
