@@davefellhoelter1343 Same here. I live in one of the reddest parts of Commiefornistan. I wished I lived "In the valley" though. It's BLUE and more gun friendly. At least the parts I go to.
For those folks that claim Black Powder doesn't kick, well, they just don't fire full power loads out of their squirrel rifles. .577 speaks with authority. Cheers!
@@kbjerke those musketoons are bad because they weigh next to nothing. The JP Murray Artillery Carbine on the other hand absorbs a lot of the recoil but is as heavy as those 10 moving boxes we hear about. Cheers!
@@lutherpayne9957 I love the 'toon! And perhaps not to the same extent as Scott from Kentucky Ballistics, I *LOVE* recoil!! Best wishes to you, and keep yer powder dry!
@@kbjerke I have the toon and the two bander. I prefer the Enfields over Springfield because of weight. Of all my rifle muskets I prefer shooting my 63 Remington "Zouave". It was made sometime in the 1970's by a company called Zoli. It is most accurate with patched round balls and 55 grains of 2f Swiss bp. Happy shooting to you as well. Cheers!
@@kbjerke simple get another vault? Have a large hydraulic oil tank sitting on a four wheeler waiting to be a reborn safe, I started giving them to my kids while "I'm Alive" and can see their faces, now I got them hooked.
I'd bet a whole dollar that the chronograph is struggling because of the wads. The thing works by timing off of the shadow of the projectile, right? But when the wad flies through and leaves a significant enough second shadow, the chrono doesn't know what to do and cries for mommy. That's my theory at least. Great episode, and thank you for the content! Here's either a $5 tip, or $4 and settling a $1 lost bet.
@@Everythingblackpowder The dollar I bet that the chronograph is confused by the wads. Or is it? I don't know, but I can still tip / pay up either way.
lol I definitely think the wads there throwing the chronograph for a loop. They all seemed to disintegrate about 5 yards in front of me. The ground was covered in fragments.
I've got my grandpa's civil war era carbine musket rifle in .65 or .66 caliber. He let me take a deer with it in high-school and boy does that short little (formerly a British calvary rifle) shoulder cannon really hit hard on both ends of the rifle! That 500 some grain roundball left a quarter sized hole straight through the deer!
lol thanks! Not too bad for being a complete accident. I’ve had some folks call it “dieseling”. As the story goes, the lube actually ignites from the compression and burns all the way down range.
The old man back in the 60s shot pigs with the old 577 in Moree northen NSW (Aussie) , knocked the b#####ds A over T . Like your show , all the best to you and yours from the Aussie Boomer
I was playing around with my Snider this morning. 6.5 grains of Ramshot Zip, 8 1/4" Nitrocards and a .600 round ball gave me a whopping 480fps and nearly silent report. I've got to get a set of dies so I can crimp bullets in place and try this stuff.
I agree, 70gr of 3F in 45-70 with a 500gr bullet aint no joke in the recoil department. Heavy bullets and large charges let you know when you light them off.
Gotta break out my snider now, it has about 3 hour-of-average accuracy but now I have more information to hit it with... If you're having ignition issues I use magnum large pistol primers in mine (mostly because my spring is weak lol)
Thank you. So nice….since I could not get 24ga cases in za, I made sizing dies for the owner to form 20ga cases. Oh that worked soooo well. Plastic shells from S&B and Fiocchi. Also tested paper 24ga ctgs made from empty mortar 24ga lifting shells. But no the 20to24ga plastic cases are good, even though sometimes a powder burn grain burn through. Bullet fits good tight when lubed. The dies were real rudimentary but work well.
I have found that shotgun flake powders work pretty well in Sniders and .50-70 Trapdoors. It keeps the pressure and pressure curve within the acceptable zone. My Martini duplex is 7gn of AA#5 and about 75gn of Pyrodex. It burns a hell of a lot cleaner than just Pyrodex
Where things get interesting is duplexing with BP substitutes. Built some 7.62x54 test loads recently, all with 200g Lee cast .312 with gas checks: 55 gr of toilet paper BP, compressed 1640 fps, 40 gr of Grey MZ with 5gr H4895 booster -1898 fps. Yea when you don't get chronograph data on these test loads it's very irritating. I now pop out the Berdans hydraulically and reload them with FA-70 (circa WW2 primer). Perfect every aspect of your chosen art
I don't have any BP rifles, but do a lot of .36, .44 and .45. I'm sure you've checked, but on my (cheap) Caldwell chrony I have to wipe down the windows with an alcohol wipe after every few shoots or it quits wanting to read. Hope it helps. And of course I love the videos.
My favorite plinking load for the 45-70 is 15gr of Unique ( the old formula because I bought a ton when they cleared it out), a fiber wad and a 300gr Lee cast bullet. Never chronographed it but it shoots out to 100 yards real nice.
If you ever get a chance to try a 2 band, Sgt’s Snider they often shoot a bit better and seem to have more consistent bores, but they all shoot high. Made for a belt bucket sight hold. 🤷🏻♂️ You are having fun and shooting a grand old rifle / caliber. Love your channel. 👍🏼
I just made a Larger expander ball for my Die .My bullets seat with a little Thumb pressure I was just at a gunshow on the weekend and got a bag of 100- 577/450 I am going to cut down to 577 .I also found 100 50/95 new cases I will cut down for my 2 50/70'S Newyork and Trapdoor
Back around 2008 I experienced the "tracer" effect shooting 58cal minie skirted rounds that I had accidentally filled the cavity with lube. We were targeting gongs under tree cover with low light. Shooting out to 70yds uphill they were very red and the other shooters wanted to know what I'd done. Get yourself a Garmin Xero C1 Pro, its just better.
I've been playing around with the duplex load for the main reason that a percussion cap won't light HS-6. I was trying to duplicate a 45 Colt load in a 44 cap and ball. Saw your video and decided to revisit. I put 23% 4F black in a glass jar and 77% HS-6 (which is close in pressure and burn rate of Unique) By weight. I mixed the 2 like they would in a 45 Colt case on a trotting horse. I loaded 13 grains of this mix per chamber of my 1858 Remington. I compared to 25 grain charge of 3 f black and black powder only charge was still a little stronger. The point is when thoroughly mixed the low percentage of black still lights the smokeless
I have a solid base .575 ish 605gr Lyman mold that would probably be decent paper patched in that rifle. It’s kind of fun in my 58 caliber muzzleloaders.
trust me Jake it's more than just your chrony that does that i've got 2 that'll get PMS out of nowhere like that!! i think it may have to do with how high the slug passes the sensors it seems when they're hitting high you get more bad readings than when it's on point of aim or hitting low! those Magtech hulls are getting expensive i just checked midway usa and they're $49.99 a box for 12 gauge! the last ones i got a few years back (but not at midway!!) were $27.85 a box!
I have a suggestion you may love or hate. Half of tannerite is alumium powder. The other half, mixed 28:5 by weight with icing sugar, should burn perfectly cleanly, without soot, smoke or salts left behind. I'd love to test it, but can't here. Can you test that, in something you don't mind maybe breaking, at the end of a long piece of string? *EDIT:* I should probably mention that it's around 130 ft-lb per grain. That's probably very useful information when planning to do any testing of it. Don't go just tipping a teaspoonful of it into the case to see what happens, hey?
I've got a box of magtek shells and a bag of plastic shells. I really need to take my Nepalese snider out. It has a mirror bright bore. Those plinking loads should be fun.
I always enjoy the duplex videos. I have had good success with 45-70 smokeless kicker under BP for a good clean burn in my Sharps rifle. Recently, I experimented with a smokeless kicker under BP in 357 mag brass loaded as a blank to reduce fouling for my YT algarithim short vids and I noticed that while fouling was reduced flash was also reduced and the shots appeared similar to smokeless which doesn't charm the algarithim if you know what I mean.
Greta video! Keep busting all the black powder myths you can! May all the doomsayers choke on their spit! I hope to try some of these duplex loads in my 59-95 Winchester. Just need to find some 5744 or my tryH110 . Thanks!
very interesting that you can shoot smokeless in a balloon head case. i have been trying to make brass cases for 22 long rifle for a while out of copper strip, and i always thought that balloon head stuff was only really good for black powder. i would love to make 380 acp or 5.56 balloon head or something on an arbor press and load up a magazine with it and see how it shoots. i bet i could make casings cheaper and easier than they do industrially. depending on what die you used for heading you wouldn't even need to put the case on a lathe. it would be like making 22... so interesting!
@@Everythingblackpowder Can I ask, do you know why balloon head casings fell out of favor? Can these cases not stand up to pressure like modern solid head can? It sounds like you have a lot of really valuable experience, like when you chose not to put smokeless at the bottom of the case at the primer level. do you know if balloon head casings are less tolerant of high pressures than solid head ones? i have heard this repeated a lot but i don't know if there is any basis for it - i mean, how often have you heard of a case blowing out from the back, or blowing the primer out? and primers are even thinner than the walls of a case. are there any resources that i could read about this that you would recommend? like, what material informed you to not put smokeless below the primer level? does that just come from experience and ballistics education?
I tried loading smokeless in brass 12ga shotgun hulls some years and ran into that problem. I’ve never had a balloon head case separate but I’ve seen pictures of it.
@@Everythingblackpowder you mean primer blowout? interesting... also, id think case head separation wouldn't be much worse for balloon head just because the case head separation is because of a case wall failure. it reminds me of the old folded foil martini henry casings. those things actually rarely had case head separation even though the case head was just held on with solder.
I find these videos so interesting. The various duplex loads seem to work quite well. Have you ever tried loads ignited by a 209 shotgun primer? I just wondered if the larger primer made a difference? Thanks for the knowledge. Phil
Just hope we don't get to the part of some reassembly required . I have a couple of 577 S and lots of 24 G brass shells all ready to go just no time yet .
Here in the UK there are plenty of shooters using Lovex D60 (same as 5744) in Sniders and Martini Henry's but without the black powder starter. I have some Bertram brass on its way for my Mk3 Snider so I may give it a go.
I've seen some guys shooting 54cal Harpers Ferry rifles and they were doing the some thing. Leaving a highly visible vapor or smoke trail. Always wondered what it was
Great video. In almost all black powder rifles over .40 cal I use ed to test them with my MAGGOB (make any gun go ba ng) load which was 14 gr. of Unique. My standard bullet for serious shooting I had an old Lyman .585213 and occasionally occasionally used a Lee .584 real bullet. My cases were Bell basic. I shot thousands of rounds and the primer pockets eventually got so worn out I had to Crazy Glug them into place. My dies were custom made for .585 bullets.
I’m having a real issue understanding the 13 grains of unique loading, and it’s exactly the load I’d like to duplicate for mine. Could you do a video on that exact loading at some point, I’ve looked back through your videos and can’t find one on it and I’m nervous of using smokeless without a detailed guide, thank you very much for your videos and keeping these antiques alive
Dude your videos are great. I've been experimenting with speeding up smokeless loads with small amounts of black powder to improve performance from snubnose revolvers because of these duplex vids so I'd like you to know if I die I'll haunt you
Thank you for doing this video. I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight? It seems that propelling a very heavy bullet would increase the amount of pressure and bleed some of that pressure off in the form of recoil. Excellent video as always - I always learn something.
> I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight? Conservation of momentum impulse of bullet + impulse of propellant gasses = -1 x impulse of rifle velocity of bullet x mass of bullet (+ Velocity of propellant gasses x Mass of propellant) = -1 x (velocity of rifle x mass of rifle) negative because rifle is moving in the opposite direction, can be omitted for simplicity 50% more bullet mass means 50% more recoil (assuming velocity and propellant etc woud stay the same. 50% more bullet velocity would increase the recoil by 50% , too. RECOIL IS PROPOTIONAL TO PROJECTILE WEIGHT AND also to PROJECTILE VELOCITY Increasing both by 41% at the same time would increase recoil by a factor of 1.41x 1.41 = 2 = 200% Lowering both mass and velocity of the bullet to 70% would reduce recoil to 0.7 x 0.7 = 49%, or about half the recoil. Slow and heavy means lots of recoil and comparatively low muzzle energy. Lightweight and fast means much less recoil for the same amount of muzzle energy. Subjectively felt recoil is, well... subjective, and dependent on a whole lot of other factors.
Looking at the curves for 5744, you're probably getting up around 10-12K PSI not too quickly, but maintaining it. With that fiber wad, I'm going to guess that the 'tracer effect' and the heat transfer into the rifle are both the result of the same thing.... the curve and level are enough to compress that fiber wad and seal it against the case like a piston, and it's compressing the trapped air in the cartridge and igniting the lube with compression heating. Since that extra heat also bleeds into it's surroundings, the gun gets nice and toasty quicker.
@@Everythingblackpowder yes, in the airgun world you can diesel pellets by adding Vaseline or tallow based lube into the hollow base of a pellet . It will explode and give you 30-40% more velocity. But it will give you inconsistent velocity
I shoot Hammer monolithic bullets out of my 25/06 and the oil in the hollow points leaves a smoke trail. First time I saw it I thought I screwed up.😅😅😅
Yea try 120g 2f behind a Thompson 50cal maxi ball in a Thompson flintlock , if you want to see if a blackpowder load will KICK WOW!!! OUCH ( it takes THAT much powder to upset the " BALL " enough to get any accurisy, THEN its VERY accurate, that brass butplate REALY digs in!!!!
