I get the thought process. He always tries to make sure that the covert entry won't be detected. Although in this case, you're absolutely right. I'm pretty sure they would notice their lock being scorched and broken...
The fact that they actually asked for feedback and made alterations on future products based on said feedback from the locksport community is highly encouraging to hear.
IDK, if there's potential for a lock body to just wash away under a few minutes of heat from a portable torch that doesn't really raise any suspicion to carry in your truck, that seems like a practical way to take someone's stuff in the right circumstances. Good to see that this lock isn't that way.
@@MushVPeets the key phrase is "a few minutes." You would have to stay there in one position with a lit torch going ham on the entrance to somewhere without anyone actually going by and noticing you. In the world we live in people are everywhere, and more time is more of a multiplier for getting caught. If you are not in a situation where you are out in the open, you had to 1:park in a weird spot. 2: drag that torch out in the open 3: walk a suspicious route while carrying a fucking blow torch, THEN stand there and go ham on the lock. It really is weird and impractical.
@@onlinepanic2036 Put on a tool belt, a yellow hard hat and overalls, wave at people as they pass by. You don't have to hide, you just have to look like you're hired to be there.
@Charles Wetherspoon Unless I misremember the Turkish Police (as I remember it) did a test (due to having a large amount of kidnappings from the homes) were they (in civilian clothing) just went to the front door, knocked and asked the person opening to take a sip from a glass of water they were holding in their hand, apparently a l disturbing amount of people actually did it.
Consider that you're now at a level when you're picking open a lock in under 2 minutes, you state "Quite a bit of fight out of this lock." Heheheh. Great job, man!
@@lockpickinglawyer I wasn't watching the clock and it seemed like longer, but that must be because you're so quick with everything else. I was a bit disappointed when you cut away for putting it back together. Do any of your videos show the reassembly after you gut a core? That's something I'd like to see.
Aluminum gets brittle as it heats up. In welding it is called "Hot Short" I believe Paclock simply used a standard extruded aluminum like heat treatable 6061 and machined it down. This differs from the metal in the American lock in that it was CAST, not machined. Casting aluminum is not the same as extruded aluminum (like the Paclock) It is chock full of doping agents (zinc can be one of these agents along with a host of other things). This can, not so much change the melting point (which it DOES, but not by as much as you may think), but aid the casting type aluminum in melting and freezing (changing phases) more uniformly, and so the American gave way all at once, whereas the Paclock would reach melting point at different points throughout the torching, but it's chemistry is less condusive to uniform "liquidus" and conducts heat better, being more "pure" aluminum than the casting aluminum and so made it a fantastic heat-sink. The back of the American seemed to fall out, though it is uniformly shaped. Generally, aluminum likes to be the same temperature ALL the way around and as fast as possible. Just an observation that ultimately means nothing. Here is a link to an article describing hot-shortness www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/638/hot-shortness
Also helps a bit that he's got it in that nice big metal vice. Think this is a situation where having it on the chain would actually be a benefit because the air and chain links are a much worse heat conductor in their own right.
@@erikev He's not saying that its directly brittle when hot. He's saying that the more times you heat it up, the more brittle it becomes (more aluminum oxide in the structure).
Melting point of aluminum is approximately 200 C higher than that of zinc. Closer to 250, actually. It’s possible he was thinking Fahrenheit but accidentally stumbled upon the correct interval in Celsius. Or he was correct all along and was using an untypical unit of measurement for those from the States.
Scientific fields use metric measurements, even in the US, so he very well may have been using metric. It's so much simpler when you start to get to the extremes of temps.
Quick note: I wouldn't classify a blowtorch as a "plumber's torch" as you did in this video. It's much more useful (and the trade standard as far as I know) to refer to them by the fuel used: propane torch (hot), MAPP gas (really hot), etc. They often use the same torch head and connectors, but the difference in fuel distinguishes their use as propane will melt solder for copper pipe; MAPP gas will also melt solder but it's too hot for small pipe. Acetylene is hot enough to cut pipe. Cheers
When your everyday real people RU-vidrs actually prompt entire companies into rethinking, researching, and ultimately improving a product for everyone... That's what's up.
@@mattmurphy7030 i have doubts about masterlock lol. also, a year ago, when i posted this comment, LPL wasn't quite as well known of as he is today. Deservingly too!
At last a lock company ceo that listens to and puts into practice reviews by LPL and BB, AND reads the comments. Basically he has the smarts to save a huge amount of expensive R&D.
Another thing. If it were mounted on metal, heat dissipation would be greater. If on flammable material, you'd burn the house down before melting the lock.
Defcon has some, and other locksport events go down all over the place. Some that immediately comes to mind is the locksport club in Austin, Texas or Seattle, Washington. Most major cities have one or two, Google it. The benefits of these types of events go from designing elaborate puzzle locks for fun, testing locksmith's skills, and improving on manufacturers designs. More than a few (reputable) manufacturers have upped their game and recalled certain locks with glaring flaws. And for the ones insinuating that locksport enthusiasts are criminals in training, that's such a simple minded point of view. That's like saying everyone who learns martial arts or trains to run fast or be an impressive marksman/markswoman or learn cyber security pen/testing are also all trying to learn to be criminals. Edit: got more specific about locations and how to find events/clubs
Hi LPL, I just wanted to chime in here. As I am actually a Plumber by trade and a Lock sport enthusiast by hobby, I should tell you that your torching technique would have been quicker had you set your flame at the correct distance from the work. The hottest part of any flame is at it's tip. I noticed you being too close and I would have recommended concentrating the flame more to the outer side of the lock body opposite of the pins. Otherwise the mention of a steel version was ideal. I made that suggestion in the comments in Bill's video review as well. Great review! Thank you!
@@bytheseaaspirinshop801 I agree even though only a small part of the lock was in contact with the vise it was very close to the spot he was heating and allowed a lot of the heat to sink into the vise.
J. Wilson additionally it appeared as though care was taken to focus the heat on the shackle and to avoid heating the aluminum at the weakest point and advance the molten puddle towards the locking components. It's almost as if the LPL didn't want the heating attack to be successful. Then you see the glowing review of the review of the lock by the Manufacturer, and it's enough to make you go hmmm.
Jon Hunt I was thinking the same thing while watching, I normally love his unbiased videos but this one seemed off to me as he is focusing the heat to the only parts not made of aluminum
You said... "The hottest part of any flame is at it's tip.", I wanted to add a reference... www.bernzomatic.com/Using-a-Torch/Torch-Safety (search the page for the word 'hottest').
Only recently found this channel and I’m noticing something incredible. Unless I’m mistaken it seems that companies making new locks are in touch with and seek feedback from the lock picking community. That’s genuinely amazing.
@@mrevilducky **lockpicking. trying to rebrand this hobby is outright pointless and ignorant. theres nothing wrong with having lockpicking be your hobby.
Hey, we know yoi like picking locks, so made a custom lock for you! We made it your favorite color, and engraved your name on it, isn't that neat... also, we need you to destroy it.
Considering one of these to lock my bike. They're relatively affordable for the security level, and throw in a good solid self-looping security chain and we've got something that can rival solutions that cost more, but are less effective.
Spot on! We always start aluminum to test the market and then move to hardened steel if the concept looks good. We're going to keep the aluminum body as an option mostly because of the weight savings... for bicycles and motorcycles where carrying a 1lb lock that's pretty darn good versus a 4lb lock that's super strong (but kills your back!) is a good option.
@@paclockpres.9805 I know this is an old video and post but this right here not only shows that PacLock listens to the Lock picking community but also reads the comments of the videos. That, to me, is just as impressive as their locks. I just started on this journey and hope to achieve the 200k Club.
@@dechert3602 Thank you! We'll be having yet another prototype posted onto our RU-vid account within the next few days for comments and testers! And good luck with your 200K Club admissions!!!!
It's amazing how much harder these locks are to pick in thier used environment, especially when they are ridgid, butted against the locked item. Making the lock picker contort into gymnastic positions, and leave no room for grasping, and turning tools, and even for knuckles of the hands in a grasping mode, changes the security rating.
haha I like how the company colored the lock with diecast blue (which gives off toxic fumes at high temperatures) and then they were like “here you go, by the way do you think you could melt it?” Trying to murder the LPLawyer so he can’t defeat any more of their locks, nicee that’s mad smart
Cool! I found these in a search a while back and lo and behold BosnianBill and LPL not only review them but PacLock improves them accordingly. Awesome! Yay PacLock and LPL!
Merlin Same here. LPL and BosnianBill really opened my eyes to how vulnerable some lock brands are. After seeing how receptive Paclock has been to suggestions and security I ordered a couple from HD. They will be used for protection and of course... play 😎
I think there was another negative before that: 19:23 "This isn't a lock I wouldn't hesitate to use". Probably meant to say what you wrote, but it threw me a bit when I heard it.
Calm and methodically laid out description, pedagogical and thorough, I like that. Only one thing worries me and that is that "wrong" people who follow you, learn very useful for them. But the rest of us learn what to observe. It's great Thanks for a very good page. Carsten Sweden
The essential difference between the liquid-melted lock body and that of this lock is that an aluminum wrought alloy was used here, as used for the production of extruded semi-finished products. Here the practically melted material at the outlet of the nozzle must have sufficient strength to hold the desired shape. A cast aluminum, on the other hand, has to melt thinly in order to fill even fine structures in a mold. So much for my knowledge of materials science from studying mechanical engineering.
Pack lock Blue one can be super secure with a hardened cup cover bolted from inside door with 1 large hardened bolt. Also that anti hacksaw pin should be hardened and looose so it rolls with hacksaw blade
Your videos have the absolute best commentary while you are picking the lock. That is the most valuable part for those of us who are trying to improve our skills. Also, your camera is in focus! Bill's videos drive me nuts with his constantly blurry close-ups. Looks like this lock is a good training lock for pickers. Thank you for another great video.
All you need is a gram or two of gallium and some patience, no lockpicking skills required! Also @13:24, you have *very* nice drawer slides.... That sound makes me melt
I like the design that it can be bolted to a surface, and if made from steel and toughened as stated would be a great lock to buy if available in the UK
Your attention to detail and the practice of routine is incredible. You know full well you're about to completely destroy the lock with a torch and make it totally unusable. But you still protect the bottom of the lock from damage dissed by the pick anyway.
It's amazing how much I enjoy this. I think you cadence and tone as well as knowledge make the pace that sweet spot for information assimilation & entertainment. I'm a big time nerd, so this is my jam. I specialize in ballroom dance history, but we're cut from the same mold of wanting to endlessly learn. This might be our intellectual interface. Thank you, you are my nerdy ASMR.
I totally agree with the steel lock body. Even though PacLock installed steel rods in the new design, aluminum is very soft and can be manipulated. A steel lock body would be more expensive but that point is moot if you are securing something valuable. Great video!!
Awesome video. I also hate to see a good lock destroyed, but I believe its ok in the matter of science and learning. This is how we all learn to improve things. I'm proud of PacLock for actually listening to the end user. Thank you for sharing this. Also, great picking LPL always a pleasure to watch you work the pins.
Whoever anodized the body of that lock did a great job. Those mounting holes seem like they coulda been trouble (if not rinsed properly, acid from the anodizing process can bleed-out ruining the dye job). That blue is beautiful. I dig that they put your logo on it too (im assuming they screen-printed that on but i could be wrong). Do you know what alloy the aluminum is? I used to be an anodizer btw.
That American lock looks like it might be cast aluminum. In my experience, cast aluminum is more brittle than it’s barstock counterpart. Given that the PacLock looks milled, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was made of a pretty tough grade aluminum. I wonder tho if you could’ve gotten it open faster by heating further toward the elbow and then prying with some channel locks or vice grips to get better leverage over the needle noses. Very cool stuff +1
I'm absolutely hooked on the channel, LPL is amazing, the skill and knowledge he has is freaking great. I don't even have anything padlocked, but I now know if I do there's plenty I don't buy!
Being made out of aluminum my biggest concern out of those you addressed would be a prying attack. Using a pry bar and leveraging off of the hasp or chain and prying the top you would think it would bend or outright break quite easily. There isn't much material on the bottom of those steel pins that hold the shackle, and even with a thick steel pin inserted into the "neck" of the lock it should still bend quite easily. The sharp corners inside the mouth could also be a weak point. Having them rounded would increase strength.
The only way I see practical to damage this lock by leverage attacks would be mitigated if not completely eliminated by that steel rod, unless this is locked to a solid steel door or some other surface hard enough where you could bend the entire lock without damaging the surface that's mounted to. Any lock not made of solid steel is going to be a low security affair so we're talking stuff like fence gates, sheds maybe get a cheap chain and secure your relatively cheap bike to it or similar. Situations where the lock is secure enough that if the thief wants the stuff they're likely just going to take the easy route of say destroying the chain or getting a sledgehammer and just busting through the shed walls or whatever
I suppose, if you were bolting it to a surface, you could include a 2-3 mm plate of very hardened steel on the outside face to gain a lot of protection with only a little material.
Nice review. I like your objective approach to this. I don't know if that's the right word but you and Bill both do a great job at quality info / time ratio. Thank you. Portland, ME
you are able to talk very clearly and it seems like you think about every word that comes out of your mouth before you say it. which makes you very easy to under stand.very well spoken and the best locker picker iv'e ever seen.its crazy how easly you bypass some of those, incredable
The craziest thing for me is how a team of dedicated professionals will do their best, yet time and time again, heros, the likes of LPL and Bosnian Bill will just put them to shame... thanks so much for the content. It's super interesting, got me into lockpicking, and its performing an invaluable service the lockpicking community as a whole. You guys rock!
My compliments to the designers, they knew that that had some good ideas, they avoided reinventing the wheel and decided to bring in other recognised experts in to get their opinions. I very much respect their attitude.
@@SparkY0 Would certainly create an Aluminum amalgam that would fail if (as with Gallium) the surface were scratched, but would inherently be much more hazardous to handle and dispose of afterward. By comparison, Gallium is benign.
Another painful but useful procedure. I guess all cars complete crash tests with dummies...maybe LPL was that dummy! Hehe.😜Kidding of course.😊 Some good points raised and a thorough review as usual. The body fared much better than I thought it would, maybe because it has magnesium & silicon in it and it is weldable, otherwise the welding process would destroy itself, so a good trait to have to slow down torch attacks also.🍺✌
I’ve been a “machinist/toolmaker/ mold maker” for well over a decade. I have extensive experience with a multitude of materials. When I hear “it made of steel!”... many questions come to mind. To me steel is butter. What kind of steel? What’s the Rockwell? Yield strength? Why are we still using steel for locks? Is it a cost issue?
Steel is relatively easy to shape with the right tools, what else would you make locks out of though? Materials like tungsten or cobalt alloys are too brittle or too expensive, basic titanium is easier to cut than steel aside from the binding issues, and most everything else would be worse in all categories. The only thing I think would be better is properly heat treated beta-ti or 6alv4. At that point, a high toughness tool steel with a proper heat treat is still going to be better though, and cheaper as well. To excuse anything I'm missing though, most of my experience comes from bladesmithing and not from a general material science standpoint.
I think he actually said "This IS a lock I would not hesitate to use." But he stuttered a bit at "is". The stutter made it sound like he was saying "isn't".
Great video brother. I agree with your observations, this lock definitely dispersed the heat better than the 1100 preventing it from getting hot enough to melt aluminum under those pins in the same way as the other lock. Thanks for the review!
The aluminium crystal structure can be compromised with gallium. It takes a lot of time to react, but could be left unsupervised for a couple of hours. If this is accessible from outside and not monitored, I would not trust an aluminium lock too much.
Nice vid LPL. A few observations: Firstly, don't believe you're not concentrating the hottest part of the flame on the target area. The end is usually hottest. You appear to be playing the flame primarily onto the steel shackle because it was clearly heating up first. Not sure that's the best ploy here. The steel shackle was obviously going to dissipate the heat from whichever area you concentrated the flame upon. But I'm not convinced heating it up first advanced your attack in any useful way. The target however was the pins. Therefore I would have directed the hotter END of the flame at each side of the bar containing the pins, swapping over once one side had melted. And I believe it would had you done so. I might even shield the shackle to direct more heat onto the aluminium. Yep, I'm a Brit aircraft engineer. Otherwise, this is an inspiring vid. I'm currently working on a motorcycle security lock design, so yours and Bill's work is very very valuable. Thank you. Aluminium seems on the face of it to be a shit material for a lock. But this one proves we shouldn't fully rule it out. And where weight is an issue (as in a bike scenario), it's well worth considering, but only if the inherent vulnerabilities of the materisl's characteristics can be overcome. I'm working on this, though every viable solution turns out to be very expensive. PSWas the American lock thinner cast aluminum? That might also explain why it melted more easily.
I love the way LPL and other members of the locksport community interact with these companies to try to produce the most efficient locks possible. It's really cool seeing the companies humbly take their advice
what about applying tension on the top part of the lock while heating it up to brute force it open? that technique could drastically cut down on the amount of time needed to force it open...
What a clever way to implement customer feedback and gain priceless marketing all for the cost of a single lock. Much smarter than companies pouring untold amounts into RU-vid ads that I always skip, and I suspect most people do too. I will look to PacLock for my next lock.
Here is my thought on another low tech defeat: The outboard retaining pin is a weak spot. I noticed that as you removed the weakened tip, that the top of the lock body has hollow spaces in it. If the aluminum has not been annealed and is brittle, you might try skipping part one and go straight to part two without any cutting needed. If so, a big plus is that part two is soundless except for the final snap Part one: Using a hack/sabre/ jewellers saw or dremel make a 1mm cut between the shackle and the outboard pin on three sides (4 sides if you can)- Tip: I would try using a jewellers saw first, threading it in behind the affixed side if possible and just garrotte in a 1mm deep cut. If time is not pressing, the jewellers saw could just cut off the whole tip. Part two, if needed, using a makeshift screw-jack: If you can not get through on four sides, take a piece of hardened screw rod the length of the shackle gap and put two deep nuts threaded on to that rod. Knurl a pattern into the outward faces of two heavy flat washers to give them bite into the aluminum and place them outwards of the nuts. Place the rod, nuts, and washers inside the gap just outside of the cuts made and force the nuts away from each other with two opposing ratcheted box wrenches. This pressure should cause the cut points to expand, shear, and the top of the body tear open at the retaining pin. You might need a second, slightly longer screw piece if the aluminium bends to much before reaching the breaking point I think that a second steel pin (or plate/wafer) should be inserted the entire width of the lock (as was done down the side in model 2) above the two retaining pins, if there is enough metal above the top of the shackle's tip to prevent my defeat. I would also not mill out any unnecessary voids in the top of the lock body.
Does having it firmly in the vice just turn the vice into a huge heatsink for the lock? Saw a diff video where you hung a lock and melted the alum body and zinc innards.
I'm sure someone already commented that you can't cut aluminum with a torch, it doesn't have iron in it. I know you were not trying to cut it, but many it it. I'm just saying it. Also, I used to work construction, and whenever a key was lost or left at home for the connex, they would use welding rod to melt the loop off the lock. Lol, not as elegant as picking, but very fast. Even with the steal box over the lock. Love the videos. I have wanted to get into lock picking for years. Just to have it as another "tool" in my skills.
The white hot from the steel while no light from the aluminum is confirmation of what you were saying about temperatures. That aluminum is wicking that heat away phenomenally.
Hey there @LockPickingLawyer , awesome video! It was entertaining and I enjoy how you describe as you go. That is very helpful to me, as an in-training locksmith, to watch your hands work, where you're at within the pick and the action happening. I think you're great at what you do and your videos are awesome. I'm pretty familiar in the destructive opening techniques and have background on construction, structures and support and if I may just share my opinion. If the idea of the video was more for presentation during the destruction, then the already unlikely of ability to destroy this lock in this manner, then that's no problem. I guess what I mean is that in order to properly make an attempt such as this or similar "attack openings" would be to do in in real world situations. My example would be like if you were really trying to get whatever this lock was supposed to be protecting, perhaps the time it would realistically take to get into any lock, just out in the world, plus the determination and tools of the potential thief. By about 2.5 minutes into the demonstration, I think that the red-hot steel could possibly have been pried and essentially reshaped it's locking ability into the block of also steel pins, it could have popped, potentially. Personally, having the mostly common knowledge of hottest burning portable torch and gas setups, I think the yellow map gas can, from an above angle and the position of the torches flame, I think the lock might have opened in a fraction of the time. Of course I'm not intending to insult your work, but coming from my knowledge and background, desperation can make any lock openable. I think that if the company of the lock was relatively confident in its core's ability to seem the biggest hassle, they should look to have a real-world torture test done, perhaps also as a review. With that said, I really enjoy your work and I hope that we continue to improve our ability to protect ourselves and thanks to people like you and @Bosnianbill ,we might just get there one day. Thank you!
Would love to see how this aluminum lock would handle an encounter with gallium. Should be able to sand the anodizing off, put a good dollop of gallium on - wait a couple of days for it to “soak in”, then just tear the aluminum apart almost with your fingers.
This was my first thought watching the video... Now I need to hunt down how that went. I have a bit of gallium kicking around just in case a situation arises where it would be useful.
LPL's followup: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jeghGhVdt9s.html Someone else's video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k919f7Qi4es.html (faster and more dramatic, but makes me appreciate that LPL doesn't add soundtracks).
![[580] PacLock Block-Lock Prototype - Review, Pick, and Melt](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
