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6 Ways the NHL Salary Cap is Unequal and One Which Is Tough For Smart GMs 

The Hockey Guy
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27 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 477   
@AlphaDog0303
@AlphaDog0303 3 года назад
Video idea: “Power Rankings for all 31 teams’ prospect pools”
@JakeWorden
@JakeWorden 3 года назад
this one
@Chub-Chub_The_Third
@Chub-Chub_The_Third 3 года назад
Agreed
@MegaTigger64
@MegaTigger64 3 года назад
Yes this
@colincurran9275
@colincurran9275 3 года назад
Top 3 LA Ottawa and rangers bottom 3 Pittsburgh Boston and Blues
@Bbistheman_
@Bbistheman_ 3 года назад
Good one for after the draft
@6hughmungus9
@6hughmungus9 3 года назад
Congrats on 200k Shannon! It's been awesome watching the channel grow, you deserve every sub you've got and more. Thanks for providing hours and hours of entertainment over the past few years, cant wait to see what the future holds! ❤
@richardfewer9348
@richardfewer9348 3 года назад
Thanks yes bud GLG
@InsignificantNick
@InsignificantNick 3 года назад
Here are Toronto's signing bonuses from yesterday: Matthews: $9,720,000 Tavares: $8,440,000 Marner: $9,608,000 Nylander: $3,500,000 Kerfoot: $1,950,000 Muzzin: $5,500,000 Rielly: $2,000,000
@brettviddal1593
@brettviddal1593 3 года назад
Those are quite the "Participation Awards" from the Politically Correct leader of GM's.
@jayscott1380
@jayscott1380 3 года назад
I'd hate to be signing those checks. Jeesh. Yesterday I had to sign one out of my own business account for 138k, that sucked bad enough.
@IHateMyAccountName
@IHateMyAccountName 3 года назад
Lotta money for not even pushing the 2nd round. Yeesh
@GG-ng6zm
@GG-ng6zm 3 года назад
@@IHateMyAccountName how original
@Junketsuadidas
@Junketsuadidas 3 года назад
I wish Toronto would sign me LOL
@FloridaHockeyFan
@FloridaHockeyFan 3 года назад
Most people are hating on the Lightning but can we take a moment and celebrate how well hockey is doing in the Tampa Bay area? Tampa has a top 5 Arena, amazing location on channelside, billionaire owner, great management, amazing scouting/development/drafting, top tier coaching and the best roster in hockey. Mostly draft picks and several in the later rounds. Rest were grabbed in great trades. Most people forget cernak came in the Bishop trade. What about the ryan mcdonaugh trade? The Tampa bay area also supports their team. Games are always sold out while still being more than affordable. You see plenty of Lightning stickers and decals everywhere. Hockey is alive and well in Tampa. When you put together a solid organization the fans will come. I live in Tampa and I've seen it here since the Marty St. Louis days
@anthonyrousseau8050
@anthonyrousseau8050 3 года назад
Tampa Bay is the new Hockey Town.
@FloridaHockeyFan
@FloridaHockeyFan 3 года назад
@@anthonyrousseau8050 It's sports town USA. Were dominating professional sports atm.
@LplusRatioplusNobodyCares
@LplusRatioplusNobodyCares 2 года назад
Our owner isn’t a billionaire
@rustedbiscuits874
@rustedbiscuits874 3 года назад
I’m so glad Shannon finally address this. Ever hockey video on any channel all I see are people saying “Tampa cheated” then they spit out 8 different numbers about how they are under the cap. Most of what they are saying isn’t even true, and teams being over cap in the post season is nothing new. Teams have done this for awhile
@hersheytube3890
@hersheytube3890 3 года назад
It's a shame when teams can't keep their teams together when they draft well. Yzerman drafted Kuch, Point, Palat and Killorn in late rounds. They also signed Johnson and Gourde who were not even drafted. They turned out so good, but they are costing them so much now. Lightning had the best late round draft picks in the past 10 years.
@that_guy0_0
@that_guy0_0 3 года назад
Yzerman did not draft Killorn. He was drafted in 2007.
@rustedbiscuits874
@rustedbiscuits874 3 года назад
Some guy just commented Tampa is “Buying the cup”. I informed him Tampa’s roster is mostly made up of late draft picks and looked over players
@knightfall7534
@knightfall7534 3 года назад
@@rustedbiscuits874 they bought it by cheating the cap idiot, has nothing to do with drafting
@brettviddal1593
@brettviddal1593 3 года назад
@@knightfall7534 The NYI cheated the Cap as well. They were well over the Cap in the playoffs and brought in players at 50% on top of that. Same with Vegas and Toronto. They were well over the Cap. Both teams played with less than a 23 man roster to stay under. Which disappears when the playoffs start. As he is clearly trying to say there are several forms of cap circumvention and Tampa is hardly the first to use them to their advantage.
@Grim-Truthspeaker383
@Grim-Truthspeaker383 3 года назад
@@knightfall7534 jokes on you, if they were cheating, it wouldn’t be happening. Also, did you even watch the video genius? He literally says Chicago did the same thing when they beat, none other than Tampa, in 2015. There is no cap in the playoffs, it’s for a very good reason. The NHL is more intelligent than you, so stop pretending to know more than them, and everyone else.
@joew4656
@joew4656 3 года назад
Ironically, the Lightning wanted to change the LTIR rule after the 2015 season when Chicago was "over the cap" in Stanley Cup final that year. Carolina, the New York Islanders and Montreal all voted to keep the rule as is. Anyone would do what the Lightning did this year if in the same situation.
@henrifortier8621
@henrifortier8621 3 года назад
doesnt the change the fact that its stupid that you can still do it
@RIPJimmyA7X
@RIPJimmyA7X 3 года назад
Yep just a combination of a brilliant gm and random dumb luck all coming together perfectly.
@henrifortier8621
@henrifortier8621 3 года назад
@@RIPJimmyA7X Kuch coming back game 1 after missing all season and calling it "luck" haha come on
@RIPJimmyA7X
@RIPJimmyA7X 3 года назад
@@henrifortier8621 nope the luck was him getting injured and having surgery oddly enough. I guarantee they would have brought him back sooner if they were struggling in the regular season but they were fighting for first place without him so why rush things. If anything blame Yzerman for building such a stupid deep roster that can win the cup without their captain and be a top team without the best winger in the league
@thebacc2087
@thebacc2087 3 года назад
@@henrifortier8621 the nhl confirmed that kucherov indeed needed that time to recover, it’s not like they planned for him to come back when he did
@MrTkillian
@MrTkillian 3 года назад
Excellent video. Finally a measured take on the subject, which I would expect from this channel anyway. I guess my biggest question is why aren't more fans supporting the idea that if you have a good team, it's not a bad thing to have the option of getting creative to keep it together? It's not like there was no level of risk involved if Tampa Bay did commit the heinous act of holding their MVP out for an entire regular season. I'd say no matter how good of a team you are, that's a sizable roll of the dice. I get that it's trendy to yell at Tampa right now because they're the best team, but they're not going to be the best team forever, and I would ask that rather than push harder into "no one gets to have a good team for more than a few years" why wouldn't more fans want to push towards rewarding organizations that do it right rather making it "fair" for poorly run organizations. Wouldn't allowing this to happen kind of put the onus on poorly run teams to get their act together? I almost could compare it to the classic classroom scenario where "everyone gets a B" no matter how hard you studied because that's what's accepted as "fair". But is it really?
@sportsrook8282
@sportsrook8282 3 года назад
Mike Hoffmann, Sharks legend!
@brandonnarayan5796
@brandonnarayan5796 3 года назад
The thing with these cap advantages to me is, creating an “equal” cap isn’t going to magically make your team better. Sure, Tampa for example might be a bit worse, so you’re relatively better. But equitable cap policies won’t improve your drafting, development, pro scouting, and contract management. Imagine if Benning had another $5M to throw around? Incompetent management would just make more incompetent decisions with extra money to waste. Past behaviour is the strongest predictor of future behaviour. These teams with supposed cap disadvantages don’t become better managed with more money to spend - in fact the opposite effect might happen given the lack of constraint and monitoring.
@DBeau73
@DBeau73 3 года назад
No, an equal cap won't magically make your team better. But it will make it fair. When you have a many ways to circumvent a cap you can sign players or keep players in your roster.
@rongonzales3052
@rongonzales3052 3 года назад
@@DBeau73 it’s already fair because all teams are playing by the same set of rules. I think the first comment’s point is that changing the rules/ lowering or raising the standard won’t make GMs any more or less competent in managing their teams
@shawngillogly6873
@shawngillogly6873 3 года назад
@@DBeau73 It's fair now. Outside the tax rates, which the NHL can do absolutely nothing about.
@bryanlane679
@bryanlane679 3 года назад
@@shawngillogly6873 It would make things more complex, but if the playing field is ever to be level taxes need to be taken into account. Set a schedule where nominal tax rates are taken into account so those areas with higher tax rates have more money to play with so that the teams have the same amount of take home pay to play with. OP is right that you still have to have competent management if you're going to make things work, but maybe a team like Vancouver can attract desirable UFAs with fewer ridiculous contracts if they're not bidding against a team in an area where they're paying half the taxes. At the end of the day, even without circumvention, Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa are playing with a LOT less money that tax-friendly state teams like the Florida/Texas/Nevada teams. Taking one of Vancouver's famous 6x6 deals, that same contract in Vegas/Tampa/Miami/Dallas earns the player just shy of 1M dollars per year more than in Vancouver. That's a big deal.
@shawngillogly6873
@shawngillogly6873 3 года назад
@@bryanlane679 Why? The point is to protect the owners. Not the players. The players are going to use tax shelters and anything else they can to minimize the difference anyway.
@wormyfren8133
@wormyfren8133 3 года назад
Video suggestion: “The Failed Attempts of the Late 90s - Early 00s Rangers to Buy the Cup”
@ShantyIrishman
@ShantyIrishman 3 года назад
Only if it's followed up by the successful attempts of the Late 90s - Early 00s Red Wings to buy the cup.
@keehealey
@keehealey 3 года назад
*Bobby Holik has left the chat*
@irwincohen6712
@irwincohen6712 3 года назад
I'll never understand why you don't have to be cap compliant during the playoffs. Not saying you need to waive or cut players, but the team you ice each game of the playoffs need to fit under the cap.
@PxThucydides
@PxThucydides 3 года назад
Got that right. How did that oversight slip through? It affects the regular season: I understand that the Canucks were planning to activate Elias Pettersson if they had made the playoffs- instead, they gambled and left him on the IR. And lost. This sort of conniving and scheming is disgraceful. I suspect it'll be addressed in the next CBA...
@kentwpiano
@kentwpiano 3 года назад
Ok but what does that mean exactly? Like, if a team acquires a player at the deadline and he plays less than a quarter of the season on the team he's traded to do you think that team should have his entire cap hit instead of the pro rated amount, which is what they do now? To me that doesn't seem fair, because why should you be responsible for a player's cap hit during a portion of the season where you weren't paying his salary and he wasn't even playing for your team
@jasonhackworth3502
@jasonhackworth3502 3 года назад
Players are not paid for the playoffs. So there is no salary to enforce.
@bryanlane679
@bryanlane679 3 года назад
@@kentwpiano You should manage it like it was part of the season, even if the guys aren't getting paid. If a player gets injured early in the season and replaced then the injured player returns before the end of the season, the team needs to get compliant for the rest of the season, which is going to mean making some moves to get back under the cap. If that player were to get injured later in the season such that they can't return until the playoffs, the team gets free cap space to stack their team for the playoffs, which is nonsense. How is that fair to the other playoff teams? LTIR works for the regular season but totally falls apart in the playoffs.
@iliaponomarev1624
@iliaponomarev1624 3 года назад
Backdiving contracts are OK with me to some extent. You benefit in the beginning and suffer in the end of it. Signing bonuses - you pay for it with not really being able to buyout. Taxes - that's really weird to me, why the cap is the same for a team in Florida and a team in Canada. Though I can see why it makes sense for the owners. LTIR: well, there are several aspects. 1. Retired players on LTIR - that's fine. 2. Freeing cap space to acquire replacement for an injured guy - kinda OK, though when the injured guy comes back as playoffs start... 3. Using LTIR to basically escape cap hell - that stinks. 3-way deals are perfectly fine with me. You still have to pay for salary retention with picks, players and/or prospects, so there are limits your abilities to save cap money this way.
@Laflamme78
@Laflamme78 3 года назад
The fact that LTIR can be traded shouldn't be a thing. It's one thing if it's your player on LTIR but trading for "retired" players on LTIR shouldn't be allowed.
@patch8376
@patch8376 3 года назад
This.
@hersheytube3890
@hersheytube3890 3 года назад
that's actually a great idea. More teams are going to attempt this going forward, this might be a solution.
@brettviddal1593
@brettviddal1593 3 года назад
Neither should salary retention of any kind. If a team want's to trade a player underperforming then add other value.
@spaceninga2000
@spaceninga2000 3 года назад
The R doesn’t stand for retired it stands for reserved. LTIR is in total short for long time injury reserve
@Laflamme78
@Laflamme78 3 года назад
@@spaceninga2000 You do know players unofficially retire so their teams can use the LTIR. That's where the joke LTIRetire comes from. LTIR is meant for players with long term injuries who you assume will eventually come back, not announce retirement once the contract is up.
@richardfewer9348
@richardfewer9348 3 года назад
Omg it is so complicated. I like THG and Canadian ice hockey but not NHL mismanagement. Appreciate your help thanks bud GLG.
@southsidesky
@southsidesky 3 года назад
i heard that the NBA has some kind of exception to the cap for players that a team develops within their system. (I'm saying that in hockey language and not in basketball terms.) But the NHL needs to reward teams that develop good players so that they do not have to dump them when they become successful NHL'ers. It would reward the loyalty of fans with encouraging teams to have players who can stay with their original team.
@Wayf4rer
@Wayf4rer 3 года назад
That is a good idea, but I think there would be issues with the criteria used to determine that. Maybe like 50% relief for 1-3 players who you drafted and played completely in your system.
@kidranchan
@kidranchan 3 года назад
That's supposedly the ability of a team to resign a player for 8 years vs 7 for everyone else
@njfernandes87
@njfernandes87 3 года назад
NBA cap perfect. u have the cap, that u are allowed to go over if youre signing a player u own the draft rights of (to allow teams to stay together). if u do that, ull pay a luxury tax that will get incrementaly higher each year the team is over the cap, so a team cant systematically do that. no ltir bs, no punishment of good roster building, and that luxury tax ends up being an extra way to share the wealth
@tweezerjam
@tweezerjam Месяц назад
It’s called the larry bird rule👍🏼
@jotaux3652
@jotaux3652 3 года назад
The problems I have with #1: it was punish retroactively, and you get punished when the cap hit is less than the salary but no credit for the contract when the cap hit is higher. Essentially the more legitimate the contract the higher the punishment
@rickybartenslager3633
@rickybartenslager3633 3 года назад
Im glad shannon shouted out long time shark Mike Hoffman. He was a hell of a player for us. If u don't get it its a meme for us we flipped him the same day we got him for more because Dorian didn't want to trade him to the east. Fans loved this so much they made him a big banner that. Basically said "same day" to "same day". Hoffman loved it so much he reached out on twitter and they traded it to him for a jersey.
@jonmendelson1104
@jonmendelson1104 3 года назад
Photo of the banner: twitter.com/MHoffy68/status/1106650340265361408/photo/1
@davidp3051
@davidp3051 3 года назад
I absolutely love this channel. Your insight is second to none and is always clearly laid out and explained well. The cats are lovely. However, the way you lined up those signing bonus numbers next to Toronto and Ottawa hurts my eyes. And I know you’re not performing any mathematical functions between them. But oh man, oh man that is not how it’s done.
@naveedquadeer3752
@naveedquadeer3752 3 года назад
No state income tax in Las Vegas. It's why I'm here.
@rickyaz8640
@rickyaz8640 3 года назад
Neither in Washington. Seattle going to benefit
@DerektheMotorider
@DerektheMotorider 3 года назад
Regarding LTIR, I think a team should either be able to exceed the cap by 5% of the total salary cap or replacement's salary should be like 50% of the salary put on the LTIR books. There should be a restriction on the percentage of payments put on signing bonuses if the league really wanted to (so I'm guess no one really wants that other than the stingy teams). 3 way deals sounds similar to how auto manufacturers buy emission credits from Electric vehicle makers.
@mclew1234
@mclew1234 3 года назад
Think a better way of balancing the cap (especially for the NHL) would be to address the tax affect, a $10m in Florida is like what a $11m contract in Ontario. Team would still find a way around it but if they lowered the cap but made the cap hit from salary the take home pay then that would make it easier for teams in high state tax areas to offer similar value
@cagystream2092
@cagystream2092 3 года назад
You should do a vid on what all 31 teams should do this off-season
@SilverPortal
@SilverPortal 3 года назад
It’s a common theme in every sport, the wealthier teams have an advantage. With this mind, the advantage does not equate to postseason success. There have been many instances where teams that are financially challenged find other means to create championship caliber clubs. Look at Toronto, Yankees, cowboys etc, these organizations that are elite financially do not always win titles. In speaking of the Lightning, so much focus negatively have been towards their cap circumvention but we aren’t really looking at actual recipe for their success. They have drafted well, made solid trades, developed players and most importantly convinced a elite core to take team friendly contracts. The cap circumvention they did this year was to pick up Savard, not sure that was the grand moment where they became cup favorites. Remember, they won last year without being over the cap. I believe this is only an issue because of the success Tampa has had because no remembers or cares who were over the cap last year or who is this year cause they are not front and center like the Lightning. The bottom line, the success Tampa has had all these years is due more to their trades, development and contracts then this years cap circumvention. Nevertheless, the cap eventually catches up and Tampa will have some tough decisions ahead during the off-season.
@jeffhockey5163
@jeffhockey5163 3 года назад
Exactly.
@maurd
@maurd 3 года назад
I wish this wasn't as big a topic as it's become.
@MrReelio3
@MrReelio3 3 года назад
Can't wait for Hedman's surgery on Oct 1st so Tampa can bring in Tarasenko.
@pegcitykid
@pegcitykid 3 года назад
I’ve been wondering who, from TB, will go on LTIR next season. Not joking. Actually been wondering.
@ryans413
@ryans413 3 года назад
He victor it’s your turn to be injured we all gotta do it fake a ankle sprain something alright bud
@FriendlyAura
@FriendlyAura 3 года назад
@@ryans413 "enjoy the next 6 months off"
@sandwhich14
@sandwhich14 3 года назад
Which superstars did Tampa sign to go over the cap?
@pegcitykid
@pegcitykid 3 года назад
@@sandwhich14 TB was expected to lose Cirelli in the off season. But Kucherov being out for exactly the right time allowed the Bolts to keep him. He's a good player for them. This also allowed them to get Savard at the deadline. Those two guys alone are just over 9mill/year they probably wouldn't have been able to afford with Kuch playing.
@hersheytube3890
@hersheytube3890 3 года назад
Washington state and Texas also have no income taxes. So it should be easier to sign players in Dallas and now Seattle.
@garyelder4610
@garyelder4610 3 года назад
Same with Vegas and Florida
@ThursdayisGood
@ThursdayisGood 3 года назад
I'm wondering how much the no tax thing actually saves. If you play an away game in a state with a state tax your getting taxed on that game check. Also would you get taxed more federally ? Idk I'm thinking I'm putting to much thought into this 🤔
@staalman1226
@staalman1226 3 года назад
@@ThursdayisGood Do you have a source on any of what you said? I thought players were paid yearly salaries, not "game checks"
@kidranchan
@kidranchan 3 года назад
Correct me if I am wrong, don't most US based players just declare themselves residents of a no tax state anyways (Florida is very popular), so they don't pay state taxes?
@sandwedge
@sandwedge 3 года назад
I didn't realize the signing bonus stuff could be such an advantage, that's crazy. As a Leafs fan myself, it's hilarious. I guess much like the Rangers we can't just buy a cup. 😆 Does give me some more respect to Tampa for being able to convert the advantages they have.
@ronsauce0721
@ronsauce0721 3 года назад
I often find myself agreeing with THG and he’s always right! Aha he’s the goat!
@ForthWind
@ForthWind 3 года назад
6 reasons why JBB should have won GM of the year
@Wayf4rer
@Wayf4rer 3 года назад
An actual genius
@frozenpoopy
@frozenpoopy 3 года назад
Heads would have exploded
@schumdav
@schumdav 3 года назад
Thank you for the excellent salary cap review. I really appreciate your objective viewpoint. Being a Tampa fan, the "cheating" accusations hit a sore spot with me. In my opinion, JBB should have won "GM of the Year". Tampa has played by the rules but it was not just $ that made them successful. TBL has been very fortunate to have amazing ownership, they not only draft well but they then develop that talent properly by having excellent coaches (which they have also identified/developed - how Cooper has not won the Adams is beyond me). There are so many elements at work to have success. I also appreciated your comments about the $ disparity before the salary cap, spot on. Simply spending $ does not win a SC, it takes a heck of a lot more. GO BOLTS!
@allannixon5113
@allannixon5113 3 года назад
Jbb never gets the credit he deserves everyone says it's stevie y's team but forget that jbb was working with him all those years and made moves that finally put them over the top
@sandwhich14
@sandwhich14 3 года назад
It’s not cheating just people being haters
@richardfewer9348
@richardfewer9348 3 года назад
I thank you for explaining anything you can about hockey bud. Godwilling things will get better GLG
@Svarthok
@Svarthok 3 года назад
How many years have I asked you to do a video on this? :) Thank you Shannon! (However I do reserve the right to ask further questions in the future, should new question marks arise)
@mathewjack9750
@mathewjack9750 3 года назад
Congrats on 200k THG!! You deserve it 👏 thank you for all the work you do
@toddhockley9429
@toddhockley9429 3 года назад
I don't have a issue with ltir for the regular season. Teams like Tampa take advantage of it for the playoffs. So make your playoffs have salary cap on them for each game as well so a team like for example Tampa this year would have to be cap compliant for a playoff game and have too choose their lineup and be under what a game salary cap would be.
@RebeccaHindle
@RebeccaHindle 3 года назад
Yes too this
@SRQBID
@SRQBID 3 года назад
Everyone wants to hate on Tampa for "buying" a Cup this season but the reality is they're built on drafting smart and superb development over YEARS. They've even developed guys for other teams: Marchessault & Verhaeghe come to mind (JT Miller arguably on this list too after he took a big jump forward).
@CarShark2
@CarShark2 3 года назад
The one thing I wonder about the salary cap is how much lower salaries are now because of it. Top players were making around $10-11 million in 2003-04 before the lockout. It's been 17 years, and they're still making about the same now. Meanwhile, top MLB, NBA and NFL players are making 3x or 4x that.
@purplebeard1526
@purplebeard1526 3 года назад
Well, its kind of easy in that their tv media revenue has skyrocketed. NHL not so much. That is kind of why that new tv deal the NHL signed might help the league more on these kinds of issues.
@davidfox9947
@davidfox9947 3 года назад
The difference is the NHL is no longer losing loads of money and the players can still pay the bills , in the MLB small market teams just quit spending the money and now just accept the can not win it all and just try to make what money they can. Top players in the MLB make the big money but it is a different story for players in the bottom half.
@dlemare
@dlemare 3 года назад
You should do a video on point #2. All the teams should have to be under cap in the playoffs. So if you have Kucherov not playing a season and all of a sudden he can play in the playoffs and not count against the cap is straight out cheating, but somehow legal. Some one else should have to have to come out to accommodate his salary.
@TheSens_
@TheSens_ 3 года назад
at 3:23 you could have just said "now Ottawa..." and we would have understood
@danielguerrera1657
@danielguerrera1657 3 года назад
The issue with the lightning is that supposedly kucherov was practicing with the team at least a month before the playoffs. If a player is practicing without a no contact jersey shouldn’t they be off the LTIR? Which would put them 9.5 million above the cap for the last month of the regular season.
@JarradBruessel32
@JarradBruessel32 3 года назад
He might be able to to take contact, but it might be due to conditioning or needing more time to fully recover. I was playing goalie in hockey and soccer in games for 9 months on a torn acl. Should I have been? Hell no.
@przemekdziegielewski417
@przemekdziegielewski417 3 года назад
Kucherov was cleared for contact few days before start of playoffs. Yes he practiced with a team, because it was a part of his rehab, same for Pasta, Point.
@allannixon5113
@allannixon5113 3 года назад
Skating is part of rehab and doesn't mean your fully healthy look at last year's playoffs stamkos was skating and came back and got hurt
@Rodimusbill
@Rodimusbill 3 года назад
New watcher from Tampa. Thank you for that last comment, money doesn't always equal success. Ask the Yankees that!
@virushasdetectedawindows8381
@virushasdetectedawindows8381 3 года назад
cash considerations is a future mvp mark my words
@dsc4178
@dsc4178 3 года назад
Player to be named later should've won by now.
@calcifer948
@calcifer948 3 года назад
It would be cool if you did a video on all the teams that went into the playoffs well above the cap. Not sure where to draw the line but you keep mentioning these teams and it would be interesting to see how far they made it.
@hockey582004
@hockey582004 3 года назад
Yes Shannon, I wanted to bring up the Tampa Bay situation, I don't think you hit on this one enough.
@VanillaLoaf
@VanillaLoaf 3 года назад
Why doesn't the cap count in the post-season? Just fix that and it'd be fine and dandy.
@vinceslapchopper
@vinceslapchopper 3 года назад
because players are not paid in the post-season. silly argument but hey, it's the NHL
@drewfobbe7851
@drewfobbe7851 3 года назад
@@vinceslapchopper they're still paid. Every player is just paid the same, it has nothing to do with salary
@Dratchev241
@Dratchev241 3 года назад
@@drewfobbe7851 now we know why Marner and Matthews quits in the playoffs....
@jeffreym.8957
@jeffreym.8957 3 года назад
@@Dratchev241 Yep! You have to make it worth their while? Like Shaq wanting to make $100K to go in a slam-dunk contest. $30 million is not enough. You need extra motivation!
@alexc1926
@alexc1926 3 года назад
To fix the tax problem... Basically make sure the cap hit is after taxes not before. This way it is a level playing field.
@88Oleksiy
@88Oleksiy 3 года назад
yes, and no. That still wont level things up completely. Because some states have higher property taxes to cover the absence of the state taxes. In Canada you get a lot of return back from the government on the taxes you pay compare to USA. The cost of living is different in different parts of the county or even inside the same state.
@chriswest6090
@chriswest6090 3 года назад
And Kucherov is now a verb as in Toronto should " Kucherov" John Tavares and use the money to offer sheet Makar . I would add that rich cap strapped teams can also buy LTIR contracts ala David Clarkson to gain artificial cap space , good video Shannon it shows just how much teams are manipulating the game .
@atigersgrin
@atigersgrin 3 года назад
Trading for a LTIR contract like Clarkson does not let you spend more money than the cap on players who are playing.
@ngrosskurth
@ngrosskurth 3 года назад
Not just Toronto. Bruins fans want them to sign Rask "for free" because he won't be medically cleared until January February 2022
@nunyabidness7368
@nunyabidness7368 3 года назад
First time I've ever heard a 3-way deal described in a negative way.
@brettviddal1593
@brettviddal1593 3 года назад
It's clear Cap circumvention. But fans of teams that have done it call it "Just a hockey deal" while they complain about Tampa's use of LTIR. As far as that goes even 50% retention at the trade deadline is circumventing the Cap. Using a 3rd team to reduce it to 25% is just taking it to another level. Any move a team makes because they lack the Cap space to do it any other way is circumvention.
@themorethemerrier281
@themorethemerrier281 3 года назад
Cheeky
@debskvorz8911
@debskvorz8911 3 года назад
Lolol...
@theomega311
@theomega311 3 года назад
The way I understand the salary cap is it balances out. Most players that want to play around or near their hometown team…that’s a luxury many southern markets don’t have yet. A lot of the northern markets can give a bigger signing bonus up front and make offers a lot of smaller market can (Boston, New York, even Chicago to an extent), and the equalizing force for a lot of teams is a more favorable tax rate…we can’t pay you more or as much but we can let you take more back home with you. I find that fairly balanced all things considered.
@roguefactor2646
@roguefactor2646 3 года назад
I think ultimately the issue people have with Tampa is they were able to shelf Kucherov for the regular season to be cap compliant, and then were able to get him back for the playoffs when the cap goes away, functionally getting the world's best trade deadline acquisition. If the cap didn't go away in the postseason and Tampa couldn't simply get Kucherov back for free and have healthy player salary caps far above the normal maximum, there wouldn't be any issue.
@youknowimright.3137
@youknowimright.3137 3 года назад
The league investigated that and found no wrong doing soooooo.....
@oceanshrugs9235
@oceanshrugs9235 3 года назад
Oddly, I don't have a problem with number 6. 3 way deals are a tool for GM's and I dunno, it seems more clever than bs to me. Number 5? Yeah, as a Habs fan who has waited for this for a long time, it is rather...angering. I always didn't like it but this year it stings a lot more.
@partyguyfsu26
@partyguyfsu26 3 года назад
Tampa was a team after 2015 that wanted the LTIR rule removed, interesting that 3 of the teams that Tampa has played/is playing in this playoffs voted to keep the rule/loop hole in place (NYI/CAR/MTL)
@tiagomaia1365
@tiagomaia1365 3 года назад
@@partyguyfsu26 The other team besides Tampa was the Blues.
@sonicchitch1662
@sonicchitch1662 3 года назад
Great video! You provided simple examples that helped illustrate each point clearly.
@tim111762
@tim111762 3 года назад
Lightning fan here. Thanks for explaining how the salary Kuch works!
@JustinMullally
@JustinMullally 3 года назад
Great video, but you forgot about the retained salary on Savard as well as the Stamkos LTIR as well as the rest of the injuries that led to IR, as well as the numbers on investment for Canadian players. It’s more profitable in the long run to make $1,000,000 in Canada than it is to make $1,000,000 in a tax free state when you use the retirement account in Canada. Which is what every player with an agent does, because they have accountants at their disposal. Let’s not forget the plethora of sponsors that back Canadian players, either. At best a Tampa player gets $5000 to be in a commercial. A Toronto player gets $100,000 to wear a shoe. And don’t even get started on monetization of social media. A fourth line Canadian farm team guy could start a stream tomorrow and have 10,000 followers, just like a college football player. Different countries and different sports. Point is that no one is losing money by signing with a highly taxed Canadian team. Stamkos would be worth a half billion by now if he signed at 9mil with Toronto. He’d probably make more than his salary from Canadian Tire and Tim Hortons alone
@onehand-yusuf7212
@onehand-yusuf7212 2 года назад
True but would he be a 2 time Stanley cup winner 🤔
@bishop529
@bishop529 3 года назад
Hey Shannon, I thought of a video topic which you may find interesting producing, as well as your viewers finding entertaining. It would be a video analysis breaking down the Ice-time of the Tampa Team; because I have found that their situational deployment has made them, at the start of every face-off, the best line on the Ice. Now I know i'm getting ahead of myself, there is no way this series is cut and dried-done. The Habs will take at least one win back to Tampa. But my point is that Tampa may very well have the perfect team structure for O-zone/D-zone face-offs, penalty-killing and Powerplay unit deployment, even-strength play. So yea perhaps an in-depth look at their forwards and D-men deployement and the amounts of success they've had. Which I can already say has been vast. This may in the end just be a video I'd be interested in seeing? But maybe with your Patreon subscribers you could make a list of potential videos and have a vote. It's not for me to say. But what i can say is the Jon Cooper has found homes for every single player, forward and defender, where each and every player can thrive and show high amounts of production on both sides of the puck. And on top of that, like this past game 2, where the majority of the team looked mediocre, this lightening team allowed 43 shots to the 23 they put on Price. Price may have had a weaker outing. But Vasilevskiy showed that a Goalie can win a game on his own shoulders. Thanks again Hockey Guy, keep on keeping on with the excellent content.
@deltagolavista1
@deltagolavista1 3 года назад
Signing Bonuses also skirt escrow payments for the players.
@dcarre
@dcarre 3 года назад
This video is so true for my team, we have 4 contracts over 7 million and only one has really earned that contract, Giroux. Cout’s won’t be going for a home team discount in a few years.
@davidfox9947
@davidfox9947 3 года назад
Sure it takes more then just spending money to win the cup but it is almost impossible if you can not spend the money.
@The_Iron_vibe
@The_Iron_vibe 3 года назад
Great Video! You should do a Video of how you would us the Cap rules to get players or free up cap space for your own team!
@Neon002121
@Neon002121 3 года назад
Great video idea Shannon! Honestly it shines a bit of light on exactly how crazy the salary gymnastics can become.
@Agrewal101
@Agrewal101 3 года назад
This video is so knowledgeable thank you
@davids9520
@davids9520 3 года назад
The Red Wings had an owner willing to pay players salaries to win Stanley cups. Other teams wouldn't or couldn't. So they put in the salary cap. The Red Wings have had to learn to work under the cap. And one thing they've learned is they can weaponize the available cap space to speed up rebuilding the team. The league uses the draft lottery, in an attempt to manipulate the success of teams. So I have no problem of helping other teams, by trading an asset , to gain more prospects. All's fair in love and hockey!
@matthewpierson5278
@matthewpierson5278 3 года назад
Personally, I don’t mind “loopholes” like those mentioned here. There are similar loopholes in your and others taxes that are completely in the realm of possibility to use yourself. You just have to learn them and then figure out which ones you can take “advantage” of. In the US your taxes are much more favorable if you’re married vs single. One loophole, no don’t get married just for tax “circumvention” although some do and are. But these allow for teams to be competitive for more then a single year. Although Arizona has yet to win a cup, I’m not out for corporate blood because of things like you’ve mentioned here.
@JarradBruessel32
@JarradBruessel32 3 года назад
My question is why could Vegas ice a full roster one game but couldn't the next when they didn't lose anyone to injuries the game before?
@KK-kz7ht
@KK-kz7ht 3 года назад
Super explanation on the Cap. I now get it. Thanks so much!!
@1bert719
@1bert719 3 года назад
I always remember in 99 the (defending 2 time champion) Redwings went out at the deadline and got Wendell Clark, Ulf Samuelsson, Chris Chelios and Bill Ranford. Everyone expected them to be 3 time winners. Osgood got hurt, Ranford fell apart and Colorado ate them. The next year only Chelios remained. The money doesn't always equal success.
@andrewfoley2250
@andrewfoley2250 3 года назад
As a Rangers fan, I completely agree. High profile names were great for getting fans in the seats, ads, and jersey sales. That was it. Amonte, Weight, Marchant, Savard - they had no patience to wait for them to develop and it cost them.
@HDreamer
@HDreamer 3 года назад
Salary Cap was great for the Rangers, it finally stopped the mindless spending and made them build actual Teams.
@samuelwallace9982
@samuelwallace9982 3 года назад
I do think there needs to be a rule that if a player ends up on LTIR they are disqualified from being traded. At that point, and we've seen this with David Clarkson to Toronto and Marian Gaborik to Tampa, they aren't being to traded to actually help the team on the ice.
@neroameealucard945
@neroameealucard945 3 года назад
I feel like the NHL needs its own equivalent to the Allan Houston rule in the NBA, where if you know someone isn't going to play again because of injuries you can buy them out and it won't count against the cap.
@cluntbaby9735
@cluntbaby9735 3 года назад
This would really help tampa. Anders Nilsson and Marion Gaborik haven't played all season and are essentially retired but are draining $8 million on their cap
@neroameealucard945
@neroameealucard945 3 года назад
They're paying Gaborik?!
@cluntbaby9735
@cluntbaby9735 3 года назад
@@neroameealucard945 Yup
@kidranchan
@kidranchan 3 года назад
No way the NHLPA will let that happen. NHL is the only league that actually have guaranteed contracts, also cutting a player and telling him he's getting the buy out rate (ie not full salary) just because of an injury is an extremely bad look for the owners. TBH, I'm not even sure that other leagues let injured players be bought out.
@DneilB007
@DneilB007 3 года назад
11:39 - Don’t worry about Tampa being over the Cap ceiling next year. Johnson is from the Pacific Northwest, so it’s probably a lock that he’s claimed by Seattle. (Or Tampa does a Florida & trades Johnson for futures, with the futures being “take this guy.”) Seattle is a great ‘get out of Cap hell free’ card.
@byst33
@byst33 3 года назад
This stuff always confuses me but I'm just glad we have the cap, it seems to have done a lot of good for parity in the NHL. It's cool looking forward to each season and realizing there are roughly 2/3rds of the teams that could be considered "good" and maybe 1/3rd of teams that you could argue are "contenders"
@holofech9744
@holofech9744 3 года назад
So why do teams not have to be cap compliant during the playoffs? That's what I don't get
@mr.kramer5435
@mr.kramer5435 3 года назад
Interesting fact. Players who play in a state with low/no taxes are for home games only. When on the road their taxes are based on the state/province where the game is held . Also the allowable tax right offs are calculated the same way. Accountants nightmare I imagine
@danielkrall6501
@danielkrall6501 3 года назад
Those rangers teams from 98-04 were hysterical. They and Lindros and Bure and Jagr and Holik and Kaspar and etc and etc and they missed the playoffs every year. They tried to throw 20 million a year at Joe Sackic too. Glen Sather had all of the money in the world to play with, but couldn't put a playoff team together. The irony is that after the 2005 lockout is when the rangers finally started to put a team together that made the playoffs regularly.
@BoyNamedSue4
@BoyNamedSue4 3 года назад
I remember when the Ducks were near the cap. They would “send down” elc players on a daily basis and immediately recall them on game day. Players would never leave town.
@SRQBID
@SRQBID 3 года назад
Reminds me of stories of guys getting paperwork up and down and up and down so they can practice. (Marlies/Leafs supposedly did it a while back)
@jesskoffman
@jesskoffman 3 года назад
I think there should only be a salary cap for UFAs. You should be allowed to provide a market value contract for any player you draft and/or develop from a young age.
@richardfewer9348
@richardfewer9348 3 года назад
Your right the cap is a dynasty breaker. Godwilling things will get better GLG
@andreafong717
@andreafong717 3 года назад
I thoroughly enjoy your sense of humor!
@lunalouhoo
@lunalouhoo 3 года назад
I'm glad you explained this...but it makes my head hurt. LOL
@thomaskeyboard
@thomaskeyboard 3 года назад
the issue is that the salary cap disappears completely for the playoffs... that needs to be rectified... you need to be cap compliant for the playoffs.. easy
@purplebeard1526
@purplebeard1526 3 года назад
Interesting video... I was wondering how some of that stuff worked with the NHL and how that factored into the comments about Tampa Bay. Then again, there is a lot of fuzzy math accounting in professional sports regardless of the league you are in and play for. And how is that escrow thing factoring in now?
@mt_machine
@mt_machine 3 года назад
Some people criticise the salary cap because it's unfair towards teams who have a better financial situation. Believe me, as a German watching Bayern Munich win the Bundesliga like 30 out of 34 years is boring as hell. I love the salary cap system, even if the parity it creates is kinda artifical.
@Raataataatat
@Raataataatat 3 года назад
As a Canadian I think the 13% tax advantage Florida and other teams enjoy is huge advantage which teams have 0 control over. I think the NHL should tax adjust each teams cap.
@connordobos7221
@connordobos7221 3 года назад
Spending doesn't guarantee success in non or soft cap leagues. It helps of course but doesn't guarantee success. Penny-pinching teams have to be smart and make sure that they spend their money wisely in terms of personnel, whereas wealthy teams often get careless. Look at the NFL or MLB. Lots of small markets have had dynasties or great teams. San Antonio, Green Bay, the Steelers, etc. Whereas teams like the Knicks and Jets are pretty dust
@cjboiss5779
@cjboiss5779 3 года назад
As I said on the NOTD video, nobody has ever kept a nine million dollar player on LTIR for the entire regular season, and well after he was physically fit to return to play, only to bring him back the second playoffs start. That is 100% circumvention of the cap hit, and was never the intention of LTIR. Guys who are LTIRd on your NHL roster for the entire regular season shouldn't be eligible for playoffs; if you made it there without them, you can play without them.
@kmhill9959
@kmhill9959 3 года назад
I enjoyed this vid (especially towards the end)... Thank you Shannon!
@noiisserpmii
@noiisserpmii 3 года назад
Nice winnip...rangers jersey lol. I wonder how they would look if we brought those back. Yea theyre like the red headed step child but yea i wouldnt mind having that back as a special jersey
@MrHarvP
@MrHarvP 3 года назад
My problem with LTIR is when someone can go on LTIR from the trade deadline to the end of the season and then magically be back for the playoffs.
@JarradBruessel32
@JarradBruessel32 3 года назад
Well thats how long some injuries take to recover from. Some end your whole season. Hell remember stamkos missed all but one game of the playoffs in the bubble and he was out before the season was paused.
@InfamousSlappy
@InfamousSlappy 3 года назад
Yeah if the cap is just going to go away during the postseason, then why have a cap in the regular season? Makes no sense
@JarradBruessel32
@JarradBruessel32 3 года назад
@@InfamousSlappy because otherwise the smaller markets wouldn't stand a chance at all. Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, Vegas and Boston would be buying up every single top tier player at 15-20 million a piece. Ticket prices would be worse
@JarradBruessel32
@JarradBruessel32 3 года назад
@@InfamousSlappy in 2003-2004 the red wings were spending 77 million on players. The lowest paying team was Nashville at 22 million. That's a major difference. Detroit eliminated Nashville in 6 games that year. In 2001-2002. Detroit had the highest paid salary at 66.6 million. Atlanta was the lowest at 15.2 million. Detroit won the cup. Atlanta went 19-47-11-5. They were dead last in the league.
@kildawg
@kildawg 3 года назад
One solution is to clearly define the "long term" portion of LTIR; as in the player cannot play for at minimum 6 months. Also, said team can use up to 90% of injured player's cap hit for a replacement if the player exceeds $4M cap hit.
@Os-zw5vy
@Os-zw5vy 7 месяцев назад
I agree with the first part of your comment.
@paulb9247
@paulb9247 3 года назад
Yeah, it is uneven. Just make the salary cap the take home pay and close loop holes so 5 mil in Florida to take home is the same as 5 mil in Toronto to take home.
@JordanLeGrand
@JordanLeGrand 3 года назад
Contracts should be adjusted based on taxes. There is no valid reason not to do so. People argue with the cost of living, but If an average person salary is able to live around the city, then this has to be negligible.
@ngrosskurth
@ngrosskurth 3 года назад
I think the loophole fans want to see closed is make teams be cap complaint in the playoffs. If Kucherov (most recent example) comes of of LTIR game 1 of the playoffs, Tampa should have to move $9M worth of cap space off the roster before game 1 of the playoffs as well.
@youknowimright.3137
@youknowimright.3137 3 года назад
If you want to blame somebody because this wasnt a rule ... blame all the GM's who voted against it in 2015 ...(spoiler alert.... we voted for it)
@ngrosskurth
@ngrosskurth 3 года назад
@@youknowimright.3137 oh I do and I'm not mad Tampa won with the hand they were dealt
@Just_Phil_
@Just_Phil_ 3 года назад
For the longest time, I didn't like that Rangers jersey. I think I'm coming around to it now. Future reverse retro jesery?
@gigatron2008
@gigatron2008 3 года назад
Spend wisely yes but obviously having more money will increase your chances at going deep into the playoffs.
@mikedrndarski2707
@mikedrndarski2707 3 года назад
People were saying the same things about Detroit as you pointed out, but like Tampa Bay is now they were within the rules. As long as the league doesn't have a problem with it that means the owners are OK with it. One in the same. How often do you hear players complaining about another player only getting fined 5000.00 dollars for a hit. That's the way they voted and want it.
@TheNaqoyqatZ
@TheNaqoyqatZ 3 года назад
Grats on 200k THG!
@ellec5584
@ellec5584 3 года назад
Ok here’s an idea: what if they lowered the salary cap to say $40 million and allowed a certain number of drafted exemptions that did not count against the cap? That way teams are able to keep and pay players that they drafted and developed themselves. This would keep a limit on teams so they can’t just buy all the best players NY Yankees style, but also not make it impossible for teams to build dynasties.
@martinkirouac
@martinkirouac 3 года назад
I think the only way that makes it unequal is actually taxes. Every team can use the LTIR, signing bonus, 3 ways deal, etc but taxes are out of their control. The governments controls it. One day I hope I can create a team called the Bahamas Golden Kings and every player will be happy. Same business model as the Coyotes... No attendance, just profit sharing plus tax free.
@viewernewest
@viewernewest 3 года назад
The shipping off of players on LTIR is something that really rankles me.
@amanscomics9273
@amanscomics9273 3 года назад
Are you making a video on your decision for "Best Defensive Duo" and "Best Defensive Defenceman" ?
@huddlelatestmedia7274
@huddlelatestmedia7274 3 года назад
well, thg with another informational video that is worth a watch
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