#623 

So good to hear someone talk about the beauty of the music instead of how good the vinyl sounds ….another great episode

Great episode Dan. Agree completely with your top 4, Miles is second tier though (imho). Billie Holiday sits up there with the very greats. I think she has to be no 5. She had "it" in spades. Her influence on modern singers is immense. She sang with all the greats and she is much loved and revered to this day.

Great job. Your knowledge of jazz is very interesting and it makes your show valuable to us jazz fans and new listeners as well. Putting the music in its historical and cultural context is so beneficial and fun too. Keep up the good work brother.

Great list. I would probably substitute Coltrane for Miles at the five spot, but it would be close for me or close to the same level. Also hard to leave Dizz out. So I am stuck on the four and five spot. 5. Coltrane / Miles 4. Monk / Dizzy 3. Parker 2. Ellington 1. Armstong

As always Dan, You are on the time . I agree well done. Thanks .

Hi Dan! As always this is a thought provoking post. I would like to add to your dialog. First a point of correction: The man preferred to be called Louis, not Louie. In fact he was offended by people who called him Louie. Thought you ought to know. I believe you will find that most musicologists who have written books on the subject and so forth have formed a consensus that the single greatest figure in jazz history is Louis Armstrong. In broad outline the argument is that there is nothing in the genre that was not done first by him. I think I have stated that correctly. Be that as it may, you are on thin ice putting him at #3. I am not much for ranking greatness and don't want to debate the point but offer it for your consideration. I would like to offer some additional information that you should find interesting. Jon Hendericks, the singer of Lambert, Hendericks and Ross fame, shared an interesting story. It turns out that Jon grew up in the same neighborhood and was close friends with Art Tatum in Toledo, Ohio. They did music together and that is where Jon figured out how to sing like an instrument. Years later Charlie Parker was washing dishes in NYC and heard Jon singing (scatting) and Jon heard Charlie figuring out how to do what he was trying to do and the two bonded because they recognized in each other the music of...you guess it...Art Tatum. According the Jon Bird wad copying Art. Now go back and listen to some of your early Parker records. I'll bet you will recognize that he was in fact transposing Tatum to the trumpet. Now let's skip to Tatum himself. He always said that one of his big influences was Fats Waller. Fats was a prolific stride pianist and composer, who as a boy was mentored and adopted by James Price Johnson. James was the first and most successful black composer and pianist on Tin Pan Alley and on Broadway. He was the only black stride pianist of significance who made piano rolls. He wrote the Charleston and Carolina Shout and many more and if you read a good biography of Duke Ellington you will learn that a young Edward Ellington taught himself how to play stride piano by slowing down the speed and following the fingering of the keys on his player piano of the piano rolls of the great James himself. There is more. A close associate and lifelong friend of both James and Duke was Willie the Lion Smith. These guys owned Harlem and Bill Basie and Monk among many others were their natural disciples. If you listen to any of the great stride guys you will hear where Monk started his journey. So with all that said I argue that a serious reassessment is in order of the importance of James P. Johnson. Finally I would like to say a few works about scat. Although it is usually attributed to Louis Armstrong, I believe he learned it from Bessie Smith, although it is possible that he learned it even earlier. Undoubtedly the origins are to be found in the field hollers and work songs that are found in the folk songs and blues of the working southern black share croppers and before them the slaves that were the forebears of this whole great music.

Hey Dan, great video again!!!

Loved this. What I would like to hear from you is a video or even a series on the great producers/engineers, as well, especially RVG and Lion. Your earlier series on “How to Build a ____ Library” is invaluable. I think your cafe would thrive here in California, but the midwest probably needs you even more. Peace.

Agree on Miles. On the trumpet - I like the Lee Morgan sound better. I know Miles career and legacy was much longer. But on Trumpet there are better outthere.

Great respect. I think I'd go with Dizzy, Ornette, Louis and Duke. Keep on keepin' on.

So right on Miles…give me harry edison, woody shaw and #1 Louie..any day!folks should know that Louis actually influenced singers as well….. Great info as always…. JG

Great episode Dan.I'm with you on Miles regarding his value as a player , innovator, bandleader etc but man some of those albums are pure magic even if the ideas and musicians were poached from elsewhere its the results that count no matter how you get there and boy what results. They've also done a good job on his image making him seem like a bad ass gangsta type making him cooler than he might have actually been.

…Ellington….. and he did it living a lifestyle as well as other roadblocks ( racism) that makes Dukes mastery and innovative talent even more amazing!

Well done Dan -- While I might flip flop Monk and Parker -- as you said these cats are undeniable the top 5 -- if I were to expand the list to 10 -- in no particular order for me -- Ornette Coleman , Sun Ra , John Coltrane , Count Basie and Art Blakey.

Thanks for the awesome video Dan. Can you give me some of your top Duke records to own/explore for a better understanding of his body of work?

Hi Dan, - long time since I popped in, - sorry to hear you and your wife have seperated if I heard you right, - my partner of 14 years and I split last June, so whatever the reasons, in both our cases, it's a healing process that takes time, - wish you well friend. Hope to be dropping in on a more regular basis again real soon as I restructure my own life. Wow, - I didn't expect that list from you, - though it's one I wouldn't dispute one bit! Of course I know that you know that Ellington and Armstrong are seminal figures in jazz, but I didn't think they'd be in your top four, - I'm pleased to have misjudged. And re Miles, - couldn't agree more, - I remember a quote from Mulligan to the effect of him saying re Miles: "I don't mind him fooling the jazz casuals, but as long as he doesn't think he's fooling the jazz musicians . . ." Finally, I've often thought as you rightly mentioned that the roster of musicians from the Basie and Ellington bands would take cover most of jazz history, - and maybe Basie even more than Ellington, - Ellington had the finances etc to often poach guys from Basie and keep them longer maybe? One point I feel is important that you didn't mention, is Duke had used dissonance brilliantly, but very sparringly, particularly when playing solo long before Monk, and that aspect of his complete musicianmanship is all too often overlooked. Sure we associate it with Monk, but as with most things in jazz, The Duke had already dipped his toe into that pond. Peace Brother, - your friend from a while back, - Gus ✌

I tend to agree with you on Miles. The man just had an uncanny habit of being in the right place at the right time, to catch and ride whatever wave was coming in. And I certainly won't fault him for that.

Love your videos. My only comment is those on my Rushmore lived in different times and you can’t compare 2024 with their era. Did they have faults? Absolutely. But generally for their respected eras they were very progressive. Measuring their progressiveness by today’s standards they will always come up short. As for your list, ask 100 jazz fans and you’ll get 100 different lists. I love trane, Chet baker, Mingus, Brubeck, ornette cokeman, pharoah sanders, sun ra yet would not expect to find them on other lists… it’s so objective. Enjoy the music not lists. You should have titles this “ miles Davis sucks” and you would get a million clicks … clickbait is rampant now

First I will not, because I cannot, rank these great people. They are beyond comparison in my mind. With that said the first 3 are easy: Louis, Duke and Monk are in first place for me because they influenced everybody that ever listened to their music. Both musicians and fans alike were and continue to be bowled over by these three. Tatum, is a little more difficult because he came from the tremendously influential and popular Fats who himself came from James P. Johnson, also an extremely influential and versatile musician. Tatum himself was less popular with the public, he was too sophisticated, too advanced, not accessible enough. Rather he resonated most extraordinarily with other musicians and as we have discovered, most significantly with Bird. So in a very real sense we can call Art Tatum the Godfather of Bebop. You'll have to grant me a license for that one. Bird is something else. Should I confess that he is probably my favorite of all? Oh boy I just love this guy. However, I can't talk about Charlie Parker without talking about his debt to Pres and when I think of Pres I immediately think of his counterpoint the great Hawk. So in the end I fail to winnow us down to 5. BTW, Miles, for all the reasons you already so eloquently outlined is a non-starter. A hundred years from now Miles will be known as a guy who sold a lot of records. And he used a lot of people to do it. Definitely not someone that I admire. One last thing about him: His album Kind of Blue came out in 1959. So did Dave Brubeck's Time Out. Time Out easily outsold Kind of Blue at the time and it took years for the latter to catch up. In my opinion, in terms of innovation, Time Out is the better effort.

How can you not have Coltrane? If anything, I'd put him ahead of Miles. Much as I like Monk, I'd put Trane ahead of him too. Your other 3 i won't argue with, but Trane definitely belongs on the Jazz Mount Rushmore....

Time for hair cut

Ella Fitzgerald for fuck sake.