I like wood. I like 5.56. I think the Mini14 is neat. I like how it is unassuming. I like how it just looks like a hunting rifle to the uninformed when I transport it. I like how the A-team theme music plays inside my head whenever I touch it.
There's already a piston driven gun that's been proving itself for nearly 80 years. In every war since the 1950's. On every continent. In multiple calibers. It's called the Kalashnikov
Unless you build guns or buy an old junky beater, a “on a budget” list is very short because there are some very cheap ar platforms. Years ago I would say 1. Sks 2. Mini14 But even those can be more expensive than the cheapest ar platform.
M1 carbine is a short-stroke piston system. The M1 carbine had 15 and 30-round magazines, not 20-round ones. I haven't bought any in a few years but the ammo is sold in pistol quantities of 50 rounds to a box instead of rifle rounds that are 20 rounds to a box, so I was paying $25 for 50 which is actually quite reasonable (probably cost more now).
Glad to see someone caught that the M1 carbines are short strike tappet pistons not long stroke like the Garand though both look very similar when assembled .
There were some 20 round mags made. Not common at all. I think Korean manufacturers. Sarco sold them surplus 15 or so years ago. I haven't seen any since.
My grandfather carried an m1 carbine in the pacific. He stated the obvious. It didn't have the power of the Garand but it got the job done. I had one myself and I enjoyed it. I wish I hadn't sold it now because they were cheap in the 80's. Not so much now.
Glad you listed the Carbine. There was zero issues with the wood stock as proven in the Pacific Theater and Viet Nam. Mine was carried by a radio OP for 2 tours. Excellent for fun and defense. Spend time with it and you will be a believer.
Don't get me wrong I love the m1 carbine. It was my first gun actually. But with how annoyingly difficult it is to get 30 carbine. For a reasonable price. I would instead swap it out with the mini-14. Which is now my main gun.
The first Carbines actually went to the European theatre in mid 1942 with the Army, The Marine Corps didn't receive them until late 1943 when the Bougainville campaign took place
The first marines to see combat in world war two in the pacific were actually still using nineteen out of three spring fields and the nineteen seventeen. They were the last to get the. M one grand the army being the first. I've read that many marines didn't want DM1 grand when they got it. They stuck with their 03 Springfields.
Ultimak makes a replacement hand guard for the M1 Carbine that has a section of picatinny rail on top, which enables you to mount lights, red dots, long-eye-relief scopes, etc. I have an Ultimak rail on my Mini-14. And speaking of the Mini-14... no Mini-14 in this video? It's a wonderful AR alternative, especially in ban states. Solid, reliable, and much more accurate than it is often given credit for.
No Mini-14 or Mini-30? I was wondering the same thing, but, perhaps, since it takes proprietary magazines, that is why it is not on this list. It is cheaper than a lot of these guns, and, I want one, just because.🤣
I've owned the Stainless Ranch for years. Recently added the Samson folder, and a couple of other goodies. I'll confess I have owned AR's in several calibers, but only kept my Colt 9mm. Even got rid of my AK and my SKS's. The Mini will do me fine.
That’s true, the early ones got a rep for inaccuracy, but you think that wasn’t solved decades ago? lol people are goofin if they think they are the mini 14s of the 80’s
I was wondering why the Mini-14 wasn't on this list either. Its feels A LOT like the AR15 platform just made of wood and sans pistol grip. If we're going to allow lever guns as alternates, than the Mini-14 should be a shoe in. If I'm not mistaken, the NC Department of Corrections still uses them. And have for a long while. Its accurate, reliable, and its only downside is the magazine being proprietary. And maybe... just maybe the grip in front gets a little warm after repeated firing.
@@markr.1984The 22LR is the most underrated round out there. It might not be legal but you can definitely take deer down with a 10/22. My seven year old daughter could perforate an intruder at the end of the hall with ten out of ten shots in a silhouette target in half as many seconds. Each round cuts 14" deep in soft tissue. If that won't kill a perp I guarantee he'd be having a very bad day.
@@corinthiansdaniels3728 I personally like PSA arms, but a lot of people don't. I've even seen people actively demonize PSA shooters because it's not better than their $17k schnaub gun. It's basically the Catholic pay-to-win mentality and they wear it on their sleeves.
@@erickolb8581 who cares about those people, a bcm, dd or psa they're all mil spec. the things that matter is having a good bcg and a good barrel. They're all going to be equally reliable if they are put together properly. PSA had early problems with some of the specs but they've worked that out like a decade or so ago.
@@corinthiansdaniels3728 I built my 20" ar for less than $350 utilizing sales and coupons it has a psa lower, a Bca upper and mil spec lower parts with a leapers stock and buffer kit.
Along with Mini 14 and AK I would add the SKS as well. From factory not as good on mag cap, but if you get the duckbill mags like I did, 37 is a nice odd number. For even numbers my Mini has 40 and 30 round mags to go with it.
@@davebrown6483 I wouldn't say an HK93 clone "sucks balls". It's every bit as accurate as an AR. It's a bit heavier, and not as modular, but you can put a folding stock on one (or the collapsable one from an MP5). I'd say it's biggest advantage over an AR is if you plan on shooting A LOT over a short period of time. The roller delayed action is just reliable.
@@chris1john99 I have my dad’s M-1 carbine he brought back from the So. Pacific. He was a tail gunner in a B -25 Mitchel. My sis has his 1911. Don’t wanna shoot reloads though. Jambs a bunch. You have to keep it super clean for good reliability. Could be the worn out 80 year old mags too! 😂 Peace
Not really a 'replacement' for the 1911... But additional firepower for those who would traditionally armed with a pistol... They still carried the pistol.
Scar 16. Owned and ran one for 7 years. Pros: shoots smoother than an AR. Side charging and bolt release is nice, you can clear most malfunctions without taking a hand off the pistol grip. Runs cleaner than an AR, just clean your piston after every 2k rounds. Cons: heavier, and bulkier than ARs, twice as expensive. Gen 2 pmags are not compatible, and have to have a notch cut out of them to stop prevent damage to the bolt catch. One of the reasons for gen 3 pmags was to make them compatible with the scar. Charging handle and buttstock latch have to be replaced with better aftermarket parts right out of the box. Spare parts are available, but expensive. Sold my scar during the big rush during covid(got all my money back😊) bought a quality AR and a bunch of other gear for the same price.
The M1 carbine is a PDW and ideal for defense. At close range you don’t need fancy optics. I was in the army before all the new optics and never had a problem getting on target. My next gun may well be the M1 carbine. One it it’s not a scary AR that freaks out people .
I have many AR platform rifles, shotguns, bolt actions, but my Marlin lever action chambered in 30-30 is my absolute favorite to use and carry around the farm. For home defense I believe my best option is a shotgun with 000 buck
M1 carbine is short stroke piston, war time mags might not be as reliable as say Korean mags. Ian had an excellent interview with Ken Heckathorn about the carbine.
I have handled several M1 carbines over the past 50 years and I think one of the best makes ever made was made in the late 60-70s by Plainfield. They started with surplus parts. But ran out of parts and had to start making them from scratch in the 60-70s and were not rushed by a war. They were marketed to law enforcement and have been the most reliable and accurate M1 carbines I have ever used. I still own mine. As for the 30 Carbine round, out of a carbine, it is one of the best defensive rounds I have seen. I worked a lot of shooting during my days in Law Enforcement and worked and reviewed cases where M1 carbines were used, and there can be no doubt that it is a very effective weapon at ranges from 0- 200 yards. Especially with soft or hollow point projectiles. True the 30 Carbine rounds are getting to be costly compared to 9mm or 5.56 Nato/223 Remington. But the M1 Carbine round is also easy to hand load with a Lee Hand loader, which is not that expensive. By hand-loading, you save a lot of cost per round. And you can pay for the reloading equipment and supplies in a year or less. Depending on how much you shoot. Plus, with extra Dies and bullets, you can also reload other calibers such as 357/38spl, 9mm, 380, 45acp, 44 mag/44spl; and others. Reloading can save you a lot of cash in the long run and it is fun when done safely! You can work up very reliable and accurate loads for your weapons. You simply need to pay attention to what you're doing, and never push, or exceed the recommended loading limits! I always weigh my bullets after loading to find any that I may have under or overloaded by accident.
@@drewschumann1 : Just another option, and much easier to clean, since you won't build carbon in the action. No matter what, even with the best DI gun, you get soot everywhere in your reciever, the long stroke pws does not. Also no extra springs, and tappets, like a short stroke piston system. The piston is connected by a op rod, directly to bcg, like an AK, but everything else is standard AR, buffer tube etc. Really simple design, that runs.
Keltec SU-16c should have made the list. 100%. They are freaking awesome. They have everything you could want except pic rail space. Folding stock / fires folded. AR-15 Mags. Integral bipod. Super duper light weight. Threaded barrel. Reliable. Good customer service. Can get em 600$ or less.
you forgot about the styer aug that can take p mags and the Robinson arms XCR. And a gaili ace. Beretta ARX 100. It probably is a few more, but that’s what I can remember right now. But it’s a pretty good list. I’ll like to see one on the side arms next like best alternatives to Glock.
Much like a shotgun, the trick to reloading a side-loader is to continually top off as you shoot. Not as complicated as it sounds. Especially when you consider you're not gonna be standing out in the open no matter what gun you're packing.
Many of the rifles discussed in the video are several thousands of dollars. You can get a base model AR15 from Palmetto State Armory for around $450.00. If you have lots of money, you can buy whatever you want.
What about the Robinson Arms XCR-L? The biggest advantage is the multi-caliber capability of this rifle. All caliber conversions are three parts and two tools for the exchange. Choice of 5.56 NATO, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendell, and, .300 Blackout. Non reciprocating charging handle that can be used as a forward assist. Adjustable gas port. Side folding stick where the gun can fire in the folded position. A locking design that made of metal so is very tough, no plastic that can break. One improvement is the safety. The switch positions are a shorter 45° angle to go from Safe to Fire. For models that are full select fire a full range of travel is just 90°. All fire controls are ambidextrous. A monolithic top rail for all type of optics.
one big advantage of lever guns , they are legal everywhere in the US even DC and Chicago , two is its extremely familiar to everyone and in court (god forbid you have to kill anyone) its much easier to convince others your just a poor guy defending himself. Last you can find good condition used around 500 a more budget friendly price
I think "one big advantage" you left out is lever guns are a blast to shoot. I think it is the mechanical interaction with the lever. Compared to an auto it is almost like comparing cars with manual and automatics. Modern automatics especially can be faster, but manual transmissions still have a greater sense of driver engagement rowing your own gears. I fully appreciate the automatics, not denying and love my AR, but leveractions are just timeless in their own way, same with the Korean and older classics.
The m1 carbine gi mags are the best. Aftermarkets have a long history of problems. If you can get the 30 round korean military mags, they are legit and used to be really cheap.
On the MI Carbine, just change out the top wood handguard for a metal picatinny rail for a good scout rifle platform. If you do a little work like changing out all the springs etc., they are stupid reliable.
But I've found that the metal top hand guards won't hold zero very well. Take the carbine apart, put it back together and then sight it in all over again!!!
@@katsu-graphics5634 Absolutely DO NOT drill and tap a M1 carbine receiver for a scope mount, especially a military model. If you don't want a picatinny rail there are plenty of no-drill mount for the carbine out there.
Still have an Inland M1 Carbine my dad gave me from his collection. While I do use an AR-15 rifle as my primary home defense, I still keep the M1 carbine as my "backup". After all, the M1 carbine was one of the rifle carbine choice for home or ranch defense up until the late 80's/early 90's when the AR rifle became more affordable and modular to the average person!
Mr. Hackathorn ( I am sure I missspelled it), an expert on this rifle, said the magazine is a one time use by design. You could reload 1 time if needed but after that not reliable.
Thank you for the presentation. A bunch of cool guns! Not that it matters at all, but the SCAR 16 runs just fine with the stock folded. At least mine does; and it’s a very early example with the reciprocating charging handle. The same for the 17.
Yup, PSA pumps out great AR's for like $499. Are they Daniel Defense? No. They don't claim to be anyway. They can get a functional and reliable AR into the hands of every American. That's always been the point.
The only carbine style rifle available to buy brand new is the mini 14 or 30 in the state of Connecticut, except to apply for a special license which is not easy. So sucks for me. Mini 14 is not bad but again the state of. Connecticut only allows 10 round mags too. Many extra mags is a must.
You can always "Vote with your' feet! There are other states nearby that are more tolerant than Connecticut. I still don't understand what happened here in New England. It used to be the home of the best and most respected firearms manufacturers, but now the state governments can't chase these companies that made these states what they are out of town fast enough. I've owned many fine firearms manufactured in Connecticut, but I wonder if there is even one of these manufacturers left there.
I use Rossi 92 in .357. As far as loading it fast, I'm experimenting with speedloaders made from 3/8" schedule 40 clear rigid PVC pipe. Using the homemade speedloaders, it's as good as having an SKS within 200 yards.
Good question. I would think the next-cheapest option (specifically for a rifle caliber, not a 9mm /PCC/PDW like the CZ Scorpion) would be an AK from PSA, a Keltec RDB (a bullpup), or a Ruger Mini 14, but those are right at $1,000 (if not more). I'm not sure of many other viable budget options in the $500-800 range.
Check out the AR's from Palmetto State Armory. Around $500 each. No optics, slings, magazines, or ammo. A decent rifle for an affordable price. Made in the USA.
I spent over 20 years in the Army and retired 3 years ago. In that time I had contact with many operators, from Rangers to Delta. I never saw any of them carrying a SCAR, whether stateside or in a combat zone. When I queried any of them each of them said that the SCAR sucked and they hated the rifle. As for the M1 Carbine, I Choate makes multiple synthetic stock versions and there are companies that produce a replacement upper hand guard that has picatinny for mounting sights and accessories.
Great video, and thank you for posting! Wondering if it would be possible to do a video on the best AR alternates for New York State and/or other states which require a featureless version?
For me, my first gun purchase was a Springfield XDM .45 ACP, but when I got out of the Army, I wanted the AR-15 (milspec), because the platform is similar to what I trained with and had downrange during my deployment to the Gulf. But I have now been open to looking at alternatives, not because I don't love my AR anymore, but just would like to perhaps purchase firearms in other calibers.
I understand where you are coming from, but after having been there in recent years I've begun trying to consolidate my calibers due to ammo cost. My father died and left me a nice selection along with my own, but now I have a list of calibers I need an ammo vault to hold them all, and I won't mention the cost. Finding 303 British in my area and I might as well be looking for an honest politician.
The prices have exploded on the mini's, the M1 carbine ect.... i own a Colt ar, a Savage Axis with heavy bbl, an Arsenal 5.56 and also a WBP Jack in 5.56 as well. I love them all. Wish id have kept my old 30 cal M1 carbine. Many different alternatives. Remington 740's, Winchester 100's and so on. Hell, a bone stock Saiga are sleepers as well. Cool video. Thanks for the video
Marine Corps for 12-yrs and 28-yrs retired cop ....I have had several personal owners AR platforms, all solid excellent weapons, when I first entered law enforcement our department allowed us to use several weapons platforms at our discretion, we just had to qual with them, I used and M1 Carbine for a few years until the department's new policy was no more variety long guns , only Colt AR's....I really missed using my M1 Carbine for work....
Personally I would take a Kel Tec RDB over an X95. It has a better trigger, ambi ejection, and due to the fact that the bolt travels double the distance back to accommodate the downward ejection feature a lot more of the felt recoil is soaked up compared to the X95. Plus it’s lighter, and cheaper.
20 years ago, a Mosin-Nagant or Yugo Mauser was going for 80$, while a budget AR-15 was going for 700$. Today, you can get an AR-15 for half the price of a Mosin or Mauser. The AR-15 is today’s budget rifle.
So the scar light is interesting, It’s the cost of a high end ar but in my opinion it’s a lackluster. The ugg boot is notorious for destroying optics and stringing ammo. The bolt used to also be an issue but I’m sure they fixed a lot of it but still. For the price I’d rather have a Galil, or a BRN 180 upper. Your .30 choice I feel is spot on! However I felt as ar- alt being your man topic it’s all gonna be 556/223 etc. Other than that / even with that I loved the video, and how you give your non bias perspective on top of a hint / bit of history and understanding! Great work! The Bren
For the cheapest quality upgrade........look into the wolf a1 upper. $600 piston ar upper, used by taiwan military, it's pretty legit. or the brn 180 piston upper, it's $900, or my favorite, the faxon ARAK upper, about $1000. the arak is a whole design around the piston, it's not just an ar with an added piston. I dont have a ton of time on it, a couple hundred rounds, but so far, it is freaking awesome. The faxon upper will fit on an ar lower. they make it in 5.56, 300blk, and 7.62 x39. The 7.62 works great so long as you use mags that will feed it right.
Owned a Bushmaster and loved it until it jammed at around 500 shots (doing some heavy practice at the range). I started to think, in a combat situation, do I want to be thinking about how many shots I took or mag changes were made and will the action subside long enough for me to tear it down? I'm not a proponent of slobs, just a realist.
A bolt action rules. Are cheaper, more reliable easier to master . Can all range of calibers, even get in 556 that takes ar 15 mags, 7.62x39 that takes ak mags, And 308 that takes ar 10 or browning br mags
Not on "ANY" Budget but Robinson Armament XCR-L & H, and Sig MCX Virtus & Spear LT are great AR alternatives, and the PWS UXR looks SUPER promising if's reliable.
Even though I have an AR, I prefer my Mini-14 and my Mini-30. I don't understand why neither are on your list. I am almost 75 and I guess I could be considered "old school" when it comes to firearms. I prefer the wooden stocks on all my rifles and shotguns. The pistol grip just never felt right in my hands. Even when in the military (Marines 70-76), the M-14 I was issued in boot camp was much more comfortable to me than the M-16 I was issued later. Even with the heavier weight and recoil, I preferred the M-14.
@@thequackhouse4658 My Mini-30 lacked a bit in the accuracy dept. But I bought it back in the 80's. I was lucky to get a 4 in. group at 100 yds. However, after adding an Accu-Strut and testing with various brands of ammo, I can average right at 2 inches. at 100. The Mini-14 I got my wife about 6 or 7 yrs. ago didn't pose that much of a problem. Once I found the right ammo for it, I consistently get 2 inches or less at 100.
I think I've got all the AR platform I want/need, including the IWI Zion15 SPR. The X95 is very sexy but.. don't need another 5.56 platform. For a long time, I had a serious interest in the Tavor 7 because I was interested in .308 but someone said (before you) that, while you can suppress the Tavor 7, you'd have to come to terms with getting some hot gasses in the face. I don't want to pay for something I'm not gonna love to shoot. But, if you're gonna go bullpup, I love that PS90. (I mean.. I'd LOVE a P90 but I can get what I can get. ;-) I don't love the trigger on the PS90 but I haven't decided if I'm going to change that or not. In fairness, the PS90 is not suppressed and _could_ run into the same issue with the Tavor 7 or X95. I'm guessing that's a matter of suppressing a bullpup.
Dealing with the M1 Carbine you can do some modification to bring it up to some what date. First a ww2/Korean War one will cost you up to or more the 2K price. Auto Ordnance makes a reproduction around 1K. They make a pic rail to replace the top handguard you can put a light, red dot on it. You can do the same to the mini 14 as well.
I have a Beretta ARX 100. I’m a lefty, and the firearm excels in that respect. Sadly, it’s not produced here anymore. A Ruger mini 14/30 would make sense for a part 2
M-1 carbine is best. Right next to it you have any AK. For hunting you can use a bolt action just fine which is cheaper. You can use a mosin nagant even. Old rifles work really well still. Basically get a gun that is easy to service and fix.
I can think of one direct gas impengment rifles that wont dirty the action. The MAS 49/56 with the gas cup mounted on the top front end of the bolt assy. The MAS needs a manual gas regulator.. One detractor is the 7.5 french cartridge
One of the all time greats and most under rated battle rifle. Lightweight, easy to shoulder with moderate recoil. It was a brilliant design. The caliber is annoying but it is a very effective rifle. The best feature is the how the gas system vents over one's head and not to the face.
I liked your video but I think I have a difference of opinion on the downside of the Henry big boy. Think about it, If you can only load via the mag tube you are out of commission totally while reloading. Side gate loading if necessary you can load and fire to continue the fight. Slower of course but you are never totally down.
@@JohnnyDay-hr1fj yes, it is. More reliable than an AR, modular and versatile. You give up weight, yes. But, it's a simpler rifle, accurate, less sensitive too
Love the scar but the 17 and 20 (especially the 20) are the ones that are somewhat worth the $. The he 16 is awesome but at $3500 it’s about $1500 over its competitors. Been 2 is great… its on my list to get this year. Not sure it will replace an AR but it’s a scar lite for a lot less. Spear is really nice also but the Bren 2 is the better rifle IMO.
We probably all know, but you never said what the WWII “old gun” was. I have the .30 cal carbine. It was select fire but I had it converted to stay out of trouble.
I’m sorry but the AUG is still the best. Ambi, no recoil, has a nato standard version, Quick swap barrel, built in grip, and it’s been in use since the 70s.
I guess the question is a AR replacement for what purpose ? For home defense, hunting, civil unrest, target range , why not a pistol caliber carbine? 9mm or 40 cal out of the longer barrel of a carbine packs some punch and the ammo is a lot cheaper and many times easier to find than 5.56
Yes, for home defense or target range, a PCC makes a lot of sense. There is a school of thought that it’s a good idea to have a variety of guns on hand chambered in different calibers to take advantage of whatever ammunition is available. If you need an excuse to buy more guns…you’re welcome.
4 choices I really liked.. and 3 I really didnt ... But its better than alot of other lists ive seen lol.. My top 7 non ARs would be (with prices I can find on gunbroker) 1. Steyr AUG A3 (1600-1800 new) 2. B&T APC300 Pro (2700-2900 new) 3. CZ Bren 2 or Bren 805 (1600-1800 new) 4. IWI Galil ACE (best AK ever made hands down 1600-1800 new) 5. IWI X95 or Tavor SAR (1500-1700 new) 6. FN SCAR L (2800-3200 new) 7. I would love to say Sig 553/551 but they are so god damm expensive now new... And I would love to say HK G36 .. but for over 3k I want HK quality not a clone that has had mixed reviews... So ill say a used Beretta ARX100 that you could snag for 1200 bucks ...
As Brazilian our new president thief of cleptocracy has banned citizens for owning semi auto rifles so a lever gun is the best rifle we can have also a 12 gauge shotgun but only pump action too
