What is the Best Caliber for your SBR? 

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@@GarandThumb use 125 grain for the rattler at range

Thanks GT and crew! You guys really do make my Sunday mornings, to the point where I look forward to your videos. Stay awesome guys!

@@michaelstanton8363 110-125gr can do 500 pretty decent. Most people get it for for subsonic capability though, a lot of people sleep on the supers though. 10.5 seems to be absolute witchcraft for mine.

Yeah that was amazing, it’s so much easier on the viewers so see the performance. Must be very expensive.

About 10 minutes in, he said something about the O2 self igniting in the wound channel? Can someone please explain or help me understand?

search for diesel effect @@nicholascecil6733

​@nicholascecil6733 so when a round enters a body cavity at extremely high speeds it forces the flesh to expand due to gasses spiraling the round and Hydro-Kinetic displacement. That's a principle of energy transfer involving fluid. When the temporary wound cavity is created the fluid then rushes in to close the vacuum created. Compression of oxygen within a vacuum causes ignition.

@@nicholascecil6733 He's probably referring to one of the many theories about the light emissions of ballistic gel when impacted by a projectile. It is GENERALLY believed to be a Sonoluminescence event, others believe is is some sort of dieseling of a fuel source in the gel itself. It's been generally studied, and is easily observed, but not rigorously investigated and published in a peer reviewed journal to the point of reaching consensus. It is not observed in organic ballistics gel (gelatin.)

My issue here is that i think they went very short on the 300 blk barrel, I would have liked to see at least a 9 inch barrel tested. Preferably a 10.5 but to my knowledge 5 is not the most common 300blk barrel length. Would just love to see 5.56 and 300 blk tested at the same 10.5 barrel length, bet the 300 blk stomps it.

I agree and he used a 5 inch barrel thats a nudered round at 5 inches its widely agreed 8 inch is the shortest you should go for 300 and most people like myself use 10 inch for 300 and 12 - 14 for 5.56 you get the optimal ballistics to length ratio from the calibers that way

@@nostaw100Totally agree. In theory, the can should add some additional velocity, but not enough to make up for the ridiculously short barrel length.

300 blackout & possibly 8.6 are it( assuming that you use supers for long range ).

Supersonic blk defeats the purpose of the round imo. The round was made for maximum signature reduction. Supersonic does not facilitate that purpose.

@@smokingcrab2290 it's an option, but what makes 300 blk so good is that it's multipurpose, you can use subs for quiet shooting, but you can also switch to supers with nothing more than a reload.

Even if you shoot out to 800m you are good. Travis Haley a decade ago did a video of him shooting that far with an aimpoint which is wild. With a LPVO it is well within your capability no problem.

300blk is essentially a 308 round i think? So with the correct power behind it, its the same as a SBR 308?

@Captain_Coleslaw 300 Blackout/7.62x35 is a .308 bullet in A .223 case, not as much powder behind means not as much ass behind it as a .308

@@Captain_Coleslaw Excellent point, that I unfortunately can not confirm. I do not know the true ballistics of the 308 in an SBR. The barrel length would of course have everything to do with the results. I can tell you that out of my 6.75" barrel, my handloads are accurately running: 220gr Berrys subs at 1025 fps, calculated at 513 ft lbs at the muzzle. And my 125gr Speer supers are running 2000fps which results in 1110 ft lbs. And 110gr Hornadys at 2150 fps, which comes to 1129 ft lbs. You can compare these to whatever numbers you find from a 308 SBR. But, the physical size and weight difference of the weapon and ammo still makes the 300 BO a crazy good choice for me UNLESS you are shooting very long ranges.

@@cody180sx You are probably correct in the category of supersonic full power loads. But if shooting subs, a 220gr 300 BO will outperform the 308 in any and every recipe simply because you can not safely load a 220gr bullet in a 308 case due to pressures. For supers, a short barrel (like 6"-8") will neuter the ever loving hell out of a full power 308 round so it may be closer than you think though. Plus, the recoil, report and blast of the 308 will be pure hell. "If you shoot this at night and you will die" Lol.

next time for sure!

300blk is really designed for subs. It makes more sense to run a mk18 then 300blk imo when we are talking full power rounds

​@CiviTac dunno. Some of the results with a higher speed 300 blk would probably outpace the 5.56 with such a short barrel due to powder burn and you push the energy way up vs the 200 grain subs

@@WayStedYou with the weight differences and the lethality of both being comparable at full power id take 556 every time for a “combat loadout” with an sbr. No hate against the 300blk but I’ve never met someone who buys that caliber for their main squeeze. It’s always a niche gun like for gooning and home defense.

​@@CiviTacif you're looking for big damage out of a short barrel, 300blk supers (especially in a soft-target / hunting round) are not to be underestimated. AAC's Sabre black tips are devastating from a short barrel, and (like for like, surpressed or not) are still meaningfully quieter than the mk18.

they're actually perfectly average, more common than you think!

5.5" is pretty big actually. Even perfect. Yeah, Perfect.

Ummmmmmmm......... you ARE still speaking about rifles..........., right?!? 😐

It’s pretty average, I think.

Remember you're supposed to measure a barrel from the bottom LOL.

I've tried the 300 blackout and I'm just not sold on it being a great performer. .45 hollow points and 12 gauge buck are pretty hard to beat. That said, 300 blackout is always on the shelves and can share parts and cans so maybe it is worth building one again.

The advantage is you can get supers, subs of so many different grain weights. It's a jack of all trades ammo.

Lol. You mean it’s the most effective for subsonic? It quite literally has the same impact ballistics as using a .45 pistol. We all know pistols don’t drop ppl the same way rifles do.

lmfaoooo you talk about your time in the corps but not about your time on red it?

A solid Gas Piston AR15 in 5.56 and a Glock 19. Ammo would be extremely common and replacement parts for both would be rather common as well.

Want this video

its about that time.

I’d run an AR-15 and a glock 26. Very common guns & ammunition, and the 26 can take a greater variety of magazines than something like a glock 17/19.

Something 5.56 (AR) and something 9mm for availability. Once you run out, you don't wanna have .224 valk/6mmARC or something else weird and have no gun if you are able to link up with someone.

I have two PA 1x6 FFP ACSS scopes for 7.62x39, quite versatile depending on what ranges you shoot. Thinking about their prizm site for my next build.

Doesn't hurt that they're a solid company that stands behind their products, either.

​@@frosty3693their micro prisms are way better than they have any right up be for $300. It's kind of insane. Plus the motion on/off is pretty sick.

I’m gonna stay clear of PA from now on tho. Have a slx 1-6 lpvo that won’t zero. Won’t even hit on the paper

I have 6 of their products and am happy with them for the price point

Supersonic, though. Subsonic is neat if you need to be extra sneaky, but for most applications, especially self defense, supers win.

@@timewave02012 agreed

Check out the IWI Tavor bullpup in .308. 16.5" barrel with an overall length of about 29". There you'll get almost full velocity out of the round in a similar sized package as an SBR. Around two grand.

@@timewave02012Depends on context. Supersonics are awesome no doubt, but sometimes you don’t want everyone in a 2-3 block radius knowing you just discharged a firearm.

I have a 10.3 in 308 🙃

X39 from a 10.5" FTW

I wouldn’t be worried about it.

Its the 300 blackout we have at home.

big facts

​@@GarandThumbscience has occured

I haven't heard that.

True but from a practical point I'd only run 8.6 as a. Bolt setup trying too stock 1000+ rounds at that price for ar is crazy

Bayonet is the quietest caliber

Depends on the barrier. 300 sub won't penetrate the same mild steel thickness like 556. Velocity is still king.

Where do you have steel in your house?@@michaelpratt3142

shielding on spacecraft is meant to stop 10 km/s bullets of meteorites. Mass still matters. @@michaelpratt3142

@@michaelpratt3142 Yeahp, I've seen tests where certain barriers are hardly dented by 300 blackout whereas 556 had some serious penetration

With home defense as the primary intent, being able to shoot through barriers and still have good performance is not always considered a good thing. Usually, with home defense, the object is to have something that's effective enough to quickly incapacitate the attacker(s), while not having a tendency to over-penetrate, so as to hopefully not be a threat to the neighbors. You also need to positively identify the bad guy before you pull the trigger. Generally, legally speaking, the last thing that you need to be worried about is shooting through walls to get the bad guy(s). That's gotten a good number of people in serious trouble when what they thought was the bad guy... wasn't. I know that 5.56 (depending on barrel length and bullet selection) often tends to start to upset when it hits the first layer of drywall. It's still effective at getting the "bad guy", but an errant shot is less likely to go through multiple walls, unlike the 9mm (which is one of the major reasons why most SWAT teams have switched from the MP5 to the AR platform in 5.56). So far, I haven't seen similar tests on how different .300 blackout bullets perform in that kind of environment.... but I'm very interested in seeing any such tests.

My thoughts exactly. I have that exact rifle with an MRO and it was my problem haha

lol damn. Just my luck. Although not my fav its been solid for 6ish years

You know AK’s are notorious for have bore to bullet size mismatch due to being made all over creation by every country ever right?

Had some guy tell me that too, .311 bore in Russian/Euro Ak's but we shoot .308 bullets from our Tula or Winchester (American)ammo @@K-bob_45

not in America. lol@@K-bob_45

yessir next video for sure

3-0-Hate is a standard for a reason.

We are working on it

@@GarandThumb I know it doesn't get as many views as some other content, but the information is invaluable, and that makes it evergreen content in a big way. Thanks for everything you and your team do for gun culture.

​​@@theKashConnoisseurI read a bunch of comments like this last week and I'm still calling bullshit. Even the lowest view count was over a million iirc.

@@PoliticallyInsensitive well, the commentary that the "becoming deadly" series didn't perform as well is based on GT's own comments he's made in podcast interviews. Views are great, but they don't always equate to financial success. And a million views might be a lot for one channel, but disappointing performance for another. It's not a dig on the content by any means, I find it highly valuable. But unfortunately being prepared is still a bit fringe even within the 2A space.

@@GarandThumb mega based, thank you mr. Thumb

I agree with this 100%. I would also of liked the 10.5 inch barrel.

Agreed

Agreed, 300BLK is a true dual purpose caliber, having similar performance to 762x39 when using supers, yet being the only option for subs

Definitely agree with the 8" barrel. I think thats way more common than a 5.5.

10" barrel is supposed to be the best velocity wise as powder should be burned by 9-10" for sub loads. If you're shooting supers you may as well have a 16-18" barrel and get the velocity.

Just get nore pumps in big bro

If you ever feel bad about your short barrel, just remember that in some cultures shorter barrels indicate superiority 😆

I may have a pencil barrel, but I can write War and Peace with it.

What if your barrel changes depending on how hot your rounds are? 🤔

@@dynasty2295 It's modular.

Yeah, .300 BO would be my thought. The cartridge was designed for short barrels. Not sure why the comparison was with subsonics and not hypersonics. If you want to compare subsonics, they should all be subsonics. Hey, the .300 doesn't do as good as the rest. Wow, who saw that coming, right? Next comparison: why they the 9mm doesn't measure up to the .308.

300 BO deserves to be suppressed.

Same! My home defense rifle is a 9” .300 with a surefire 300sps. Yeah subs are fun for range plinking, and some of the aggressive HP/expanding rounds would be great for “sentry work” or just staying quiet….. but primarily I would be using 110gr supers. Suppressor still makes it relatively comfortable to the ear, but you also get the benefits of a rifle round in regards to ballistics and capable distance….

@@mattjay6633 not that I've done it but you could possibly download a 110gr vmax or even the Barnes tac-tx to still expand but really quite. Think that would be around 1800fps or something. Would limit further out but still better than subs to me anyways. Hell anything over 125 just pokes 30 cal holes.

If I want to go loud I'll just pick up a 5.56 with v-maxes. The blackout does subs quietly. I bought a can to be quiet. Supers are very not quiet through a can indoors. 😂 It can be a versatile round. It's just that many have tried to make it do a bunch of things it just doesn't do well. It really does quiet subs well, so let it be great there and quit compromising.

@@leftyeh6495 I disagree. 300blk out of an 8.1" barrel is nearly identical in external ballistics to a 7.62x39 in the AKM platform. Or you can think of it as a light 30-30 loading from a much shorter barrel. You get lower concussion when not suppressed, and suppressed with subs is quieter than a similar barrel length in 5.56x45. Also more barrier blind, etc. I never use subs in my 300 stuff it is a waste of good bullets LOL. 300blk is just about perfect for domestic (CONUS) law enforcement or self defense use. That said I'm not going to turn down a 11.5" 5.56 if it is handed to me, either.

​@@TheDkb427sorry, the 110gr VMAX stops expanding well above the speed of sound.

6.5G is good because of the wolf ammo being cheap. But, these rounds really excel with higher quality ammo and long barrels. I feel like it's a 5 cylinder engine, in a world with 6 cylinders and 4 cylinders and turbos and superchargers available. The advantages are there but, so damn subtle that you might as well reach the peak performance. And if you're there, just buy a 6 ARC or a 6 creedmore. You'll beat the 6.5G guy every time.

Me too on vest!

You may as well have a 308 for anything but subs. The 300 is great for factory ammo selection in subs and supers. 308 is worth the jump to ar-10 if you're just shooting supers though. Suppressors and flash hiders are for noise or flash suppression. A bare barrel you're not going to know the difference.

​@leftyeh6495 nah, 300 is dope, 13grs of powder vs 45+, not to mention most of that 45+ is wasted. Also ease of brass collecting. I get so much 300blk brass from all the 556 guys who don't reload 😂 Edit: saw you mention jump to AR 10, to clarify, that defeats the purpose of cqb

@@leftyeh6495 thanks for explaining suppressors and flash hiders to me? 300 BLK should be run suppressed, nobody mentioned bare muzzles.

@@somethingposerish5807 not to mention the exact points from the video, .308 guns are heavier and the ammo is heavier.

@@leftyeh6495 Yeah definitely not the weight and size of 308 is not always a worth while trade off. 300 supers preform really quite good, and you can carry a lot more of them.

Amen 🙏

Hope you can make it!

Hell yeah bruv! Come across the pond!

If you're a gun loving UK subject, please feel free to come over here to the US to become a citizen and switch places with one of our communist anti gun leftists 😊

You should move and stay here in the USA.

@@charleseatherton7396 I would love to, work in central London live in a nice place but commute an hour plus. Dealing with international clients all day, to be honest I’d love to get a place in Arizona. Love that part of the country. Being from the UK I’d find the place Mike shoots from to cold I’d chose somewhere warm like AZ.

This isn't a fair comparison. Should have used 150gr supers. Would have done way better in all tests Edit: also 8.5 or 9 inch barrel, not 5.5. They literally used the gimpest 300blk possible

@@somethingposerish5807I agree on the caliber grain. He said they were going with 55gr cause it’s the cheapest and most used and then goes with 220gr for 300blk which is not cheapest and most used. The 150 would have performed much better at the distance shooting and gel.

@@somethingposerish5807tbf the main purpose of 300blk is to be subsonic for suppression

I would rather have a 7.62x39, and just reload rounds for specific performance that is not obtainable from cheap factory ammunition. 300blk is too expensive.

5.5 inch barrel for 300 blackbout is too short. 9.5 inch-10.5 is the sweet spot.

I like how Mike casually threatened to fire Micah as a joke.. could have been real if he wanted it to…😮

Haha, I think Mikes loyal. Also, totally on brand for these two. #Bussin

16”!? Most people buying Gucci grade rifles are likely mounting a can and don’t want to end up with a 20” + platform.

@joek5352 Well genius, it's a good thing the test is to compare between companies to see who makes the best rifles, and not a test to see what everyone is wanting specifically. I don't give a fuck what people are using it for, the point of comparitive tests is to compare positives and negatives, and if you don't use the same dependent factors (barrel length) to test with, you're gonna get inconsistent results. I did mention to add popular variants that don't fit that bill, but that's because they're highly regarded

Of all the highest tier AR-15's, the rifles from Blackout Defense are probably the best of them all to be honest and they aren't even the most expensive of the highest tier rifles (they're a little over 2 grand).

@zombieslayer7759 First time I've heard of them compared with S tier rifles, so ima doubt that

@@eindride1268 Everyone watch out. This guy knows everything. And will sarcastically call you a genius if he doesn’t agree with you.

LMAOOO

He said in a prior video he won’t be reviewing any primary arms optics because they are channel sponsors

Yeah too bad that round dropped off and failed adoption

Check "jaegar micro galil ace"

@@alexanderp8037 hell yeah dude that thing is sweet! When my financial situation is better I am going to get one of those or a mk18

I'm the complete opposite lol I have not will not get a commie gun lol. Merica!! Seriously don't want another caliber to deal with.

​@@TheDkb427you do know there's a lot of aks chambered in 556 they're pretty much the same as an AK in 5x45 but train with what you're comfortable with just wanted to let you know

hahaa meant to say mags

@@GarandThumb😂 All love man, keep up the good work

Great fukcin idea

MEME: WHEN THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMENT SECTION ARE SMARTER THAN THE GUN TUBER THAT IS ONLY INTERESTED IN LIKES, VIEWS & SUBS!!! NICELY DONE GOOD SIR! IF ONLY WE HAD FULL ACCESS TO THE EQUIPMENT HE HAS, WE WOULD PUT THESE IGNANT FOOLS TO SHAME WITH OUR ACTUALLY ACCURATE INFO & TESTING!

With rifle cartridges the clothing makes almost no difference. There's lots of videos that show ballistics gel with clothing and there isn't any noticeable loss in performance.

That channel is tan by Paul Harrell.

@@PD-we8vf yes thank you

this is fair - hindsight is def 20/20 after we make videos

I would add that using a 10” blackout would have been better. With that Barrel length the supers are as fast as 7.62x39, carry much more energy than 5.56 at 300 meters, and would be even quieter with subsonic ammo than the Rattler. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the Rattler, but it’s not the most versatile blackout platform.

we went off of heavily used mil rifles

@@GarandThumb exactly. no one is running around with a 10” barrel, plus the Rattler still uses the 1/5 twist you won’t get on a 10” anyways.

I am guessing the rifle is setup for subsonic and going to supers would require a gas ssytem and sight zero change. Would have liked to seen it too.

hahah being fit always helps

Or carry like 20 mags of 5.56 and not run out of ammo

Well rhat saves me some money I was wanting to drop on one lol

Hé is getting a good consistent cheek weld, I doubt any parallax crept in as his pupil is properly in line with the dot.

@@GuacIsExtra99 supposedly the HD fixed the parallax. However, I had such a bad experience I had no interest in ever trying it. Also horrific with NV

@@Aonghuis just my mileage. I tried using it at a carbine class where we printed groups at 50yd increments from 50yds out to 400yds just to get data on the rifle. I’m not the best shooter by far, but I can hold my own. I was obviously trying my best, but was meeting unusable results. The instructor (veilsolutions) reminded me that a local swat team had such the same experience that they dumped all of theirs. I bought aimpoint right after and never had a like experience ever again. The MRO was the only variable I changed. Again, just my experience, but I’ve heard it echoed plenty

@@garrettboone4306 , I hear you. My XP with the MRO is limited to one. I only got to take it out to 200, but mine seemed alright. That being said a lot of folks have noticed parallax with the older versions of those. Try the compM4, or the Aimpoint PRO.

🇧🇷

I appreciate that!

A couple vidoes ago he did compare sub vs supersonic through a suppressor and the travel time of the round at longer ranges. At long range when they filmed from basically over the shoulder you could actually see the subsonic flying through the air.

6.5 Grendel gives you better than SPR performance from Mk.18 sized CQBR. If I was to standardize all of my ARs, it would be my 12" 6.5 Grendel suppressed. I can out-shoot 24" hot-loaded .223 Rem bolt guns at distance, hunt, and still do HD and CQB with a compact blaster all-in-one.

Amen. Once you do some basic ballistics research on this surprisingly versatile and powerful cartridge, then actually buy and shoot one, it's very enlightening. I dismissed it for years for some reason, but am VERY SOLD on it now. I have decades of experience with many other AR-15 - and AR-10 rifles and cartridges, and am extremely impressed with the 6.5 Grendel - especially in a 12"-ish barrel length.

@@wbhawkes I started with a 16" and wasn't impressed initially because I was fixated on muzzle velocity, not really looking at what it did downrange or appreciating the easy to manage sight picture during the shot. I noticed my nephews kept hitting my 12" steel poppers at distance with no misses, even though they have no shooting background. I built a Lilja barreled 17.6" and topped it with better glass and realized I could rapid-fire head shots at 600yds, and rapid-fire sub-MOA 6rd groups at 1000yds. That 17.6" Lilja is really light, like an old school M4A1 pre SOCOM barrel. I then did several 18", 20", 22" Lilja barrel builds with top-end components, then started looking at 12". I've spent the last 6 years shooting the 12" Grendel a lot in all my courses. I'm making 1st-round hits at 780yds, and even made 1st-round at 900yds on a 12" plate with that cheap 110gr PPU ammo. I normally shoot 123gr ELD-M through the 12", though it also does great with 90gr TNT, 120gr Federal OTM, and that 110gr PPU. 107gr and 110gr are really flat out of it.

I have a 123gr Hornady ELD-M load that out of my 12.5" 6.5 Grendel that has a very modest muzzle velocity of 2160 fps, but is supersonic to around 900 yards. That's crazy to me for such a compact, manageable package.

The only thing about the 6.5 Grendel is price and availability, but I love it on an AR platform

Oouuu i like.

KAC made a 6mm Grendel as well. Just wish they would do 6.5 Grendel.

same - that was our thought as well. Super bizzare

@@GarandThumb Just remembered another thing ... there's an outside chance it's the booster on the muzzle too. Had one years ago throwing shots low left and low right. But, that was consistent and somewhat predictable. Took it off ... straight as an arrow.

Not surprised

6.5mm Grendel is what i would choose. especially in a Draco.

It's limit in a short barrel is very much 12inches. anything shorter is too slow for the properties of the bullet design to be effective. otherwise, it performs really well out to 350 yds@@jessesimmons4503

6.5 grendel is heavily slept on. Love that round.

same, I'm looking forward to getting a 6mm arc.

A friend of mine has one. He says it's fantastically accurate, but dirty as hell suppressed.

Geissele is currently working to release two versions of the 6mm arc, One an 18" recce the other a 20 version, I'm gonna pick up the 18 positively.

barrel burner. lol

10.5"-12" 6.5 Grendel is unbelievably-capable. 10.5" Grendel has almost 2x the supersonic reach of a full-length 16.3" AK, shooting the exact same bullet weight. I've been shooting AR-15s since 1987, starting with the Colt AR-15A2 Sporter II, then practically every variant since. I enjoy 12" Grendel suppressed more than any other. It hits steel hard, while having low recoil. Penetrates deep as well, with a ton of different projectile weights and over 100 factory loads.

Hardly matters when you are using 69 and 77 grain BTHP, those fragment and expand at velocities as low as 1800 fp/s making 10'' .223 AR's very useful.

Paying 3x for .300 over 7.62 sounds fun.

I'll take cheap 30 cal over everything else.

Personally for short barrels I'd go with 7.62x39. It packs quite a lot of energy and is a more ubiquitous round than 300 blk

@@Mike_858holy shit cope harder 🤣

I think it'd be the other way around... You'd see how he holds up to its abuse. 😂

I second this. Would love to see some POF rifles in general on here

I would gladly send him mine!

I really want to see him test his skills with corn syrup on his hands...