If he told you what games have protagonists that are actually bad guys before the video started, that will not only spoil the video, but it would have also spoiled those game. Warning you at that point would be counter productive. This is why he asked all viewers to have played all games ever.
Prototype. Alex Mercerer died releasing the virus, and all the game you play not as Alex, that lost his memory, but as a virus that took his shape and some memories from him.
YOGSCAST Hannah that's a good thing. I didn't either and when the twisted happened, I bet we were more shocked than people than had spotted the twist from before
@@Wandergirl108 but he should have at least tried and he could have at least left Marleen alive and just threatened her but he just shot her and didn't tell ellie
@@rollforkoala8204 Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
@George Sidiropoulos My main issue is that he didn't even give her a choice. He decided for her. I mean, what is her reaction going to be if she ever finds out that he murdered a bunch of people that were trying to help humanity without even giving her a choice. She was old enough to make that kind of decision herself.
Besides, what he did doesn't make him "bad". In that society, his behaviour is the norm. If you judge by our standards, everyone there would be called bad (even Ellie). What was wrong of him (still not "bad") was that he didnt give her a choice. Their relationship might deteriorate because of it but that's it.
I liked the way the last of us ended. I think it shows they were taking their own story seriously. How many time have we seen the protagonist endulge in self sacrifice for the greater good, even when it's wildly inconsistent with everything we know about the character up to that point? It's a cliche and it's lazy. Real people make morally questionable choices, and I feel like Joel's choices were true to who he is as a person. I say "Well done".
@@ethangray8527 You are just proven his point. it's questionable. That means, that you might think, that he was absolutely justified, but others might think, he is selfish and stupid. That's what morally questionable mean.
I actually killed every human enemy in the game, not Zombies. I tried to avoid them most of the time, but I killed all of those humans, because Zombies don’t have a choice for what they are doing, but those humans had.
+Amaranthus616 Left and Right (not really in America) is supposed to be the farthest to the left is Totalitarianism and the farthest to the right is Anarchy. So it's really however you interpret it.
Well it is a dumb question when I first read it I though it had another meaning to it like if u asked someone “are u really that green” about a particular subject meaning do u really know that little about it otherwise what’s his colour got to do with his comment??
the sad part is that you can't even avoid the toxic bomb , you are forced to activate it . When the soldier asked why have we done this and that they have been only helping the civilians to get out of the war zone was when I realised that we were the actual bad guys
Jin Kazama isn't a bad guy... he assumed the head of Mishima Zaibatsu and started the war with G-Corp to bring out Azrael, who he then destroyed to try and end the Mishima Devil Gene curse.
How is that selfish in anyway?? he was trying to destroy the devil gene so it wouldn't be a curse on mankind anymore. also casualties in wars are inevitable
+vanthursday Azrael was supposed to destroy the world so killing him was a really good thing, also at the same time he weakened G-Corp and Mishima Zaibatsu who each were trying to take over the world previous to that. So I don't see anything selfish there
+KAIEN454 I didn't say he was a hero, he just isn't a villain. His choices were morally gray at best, but they were done for the greater good, so I can't fault him for it either. Especially when your family is filled with a bunch of psychos lol
totally. if you read the logs etc as well the fireflies are not even sure it will work, and even if it did, are they likely to give the cure to the world for free? no, more likely to use it for power imo.
Who cares how they'd use it? A society under a Firefly dictatorship is still a million times better than fractured chaos where humanity has no hope to survive
+thekillers1stfan I don't care period. Even if the cure was garunteed to work, and the Fireflies would save humanity, I still would not care. I completely understand the stakes and the consequences, but I am with Joel, no matter how illogical and even evil it may be, on this decision.
+thekillers1stfan I've had this debate before, and I believe in one of them someone brought up that the devs straight up said the cure was going to work on some website or something, but that debate was YEARS ago and I can't remember exactly. But yeah, I don't care. Besides which, it's their own fault for their method of going about doing it. They knew Joel was unstable and they knew he was dangerous, and Ellie was unconscious pretty much the whole time. They were real douchebags in their method of going about it, and very poorly thought out. If they had been less antagonistic and Ellie had gotten a chance at having some sort of emotional "goodbye, but this is what I want" moment with Joel, my stance would probably be different (and of course I understand that sacrificing herself would have been what Ellie wanted anyways).
My problem with BIOSHOCK INFINITE is that it used the idea of a metaverse to give you conflicting emotions about the protagonist when the end of the game comes, but never anyone else. The truth about humans is that we're all capable of becoming the worst aspects of ourselves. Elizabeth isn't an exception. People who become consumed by hate often find themselves more likely to become exactly like the person they hate in the first place. You'd think that there'd at least be one reality where she became an awful fascist dictator.
Nier should have been on this list. Play through the entire game going "yeah, I'm the good guy!" then play through half the game again from a different perspective and find out what you've been killing the whole time.
*Spoilers* Technically Jin wasn't evil, because of the betrayal done to him by his grandfather in 3 and the spell placed on him by his father in 4, coupled with the devil gene that he received from his father biologically, he developed a deep hatred towards those of his family. In an effort to free himself of the devil gene, he discovered an even greater evil that was beginning to emerge, but he had to cause great chaos and strife to fully resurrect and destroy it otherwise the world would've been destroyed in 6. So he chose to do evil for the greater good of the world, kinda like The Watchmen series.
vanthursday yes i did play the game, profusely, and did i not say that he chose to resurrect azazel? i also said that in his efforts to rid himself of the devil gene he learned of azazel, he didn't do it just free himself from the devil gene, he wanted kill himself and rid himself of the mishima blood within him and save the world in the process since only someone with the devil gene would've been able to. he chose to be a necessary evil for his own goals and the greater good.
I think Joel is a lot more in the grey area, rather than plain evil one. He loves Ellie like his own. No father at his right mind would let his daughter die, if he can help it. On the other hand, no human being would ever risk the survival of his species for just one teenage girl. The best story in video game, ever!
"Who'd have thought a man who killed his wife would do such a thing?!? ... Oh, yeah, he.. killed his wife, too, didn't he?" :D Best thing is, I absolutly agreed with the sentiment of the first sentence... Such is the power of good storytelling!
Thats what was so fascinating about Joel. How far a human being will go, even defying reason, for something they believe in. We know he didnt do the "right" thing, and thats what made his response so much more human. See?
But he did the right thing - instead of allowing a child to be cut up by a bunch of nut-jobs who lacked the infrastructure to make her sacrifice worth a damn; he instead viciously murdered them thereby saving both her and anyone else they planned on luring into their butcher-shop.
Yeah but he still winds up being the bad guy. Plus how ruthless just to go slaughter a bunch of (for all you know ) innocent creachers for your own selfish reason.
Like I said "for all he know" sure, he didn't know they were good but he had know reason to believe they were evil either. Darmin never actually TELLS him that these arnt perfectly innocent beings
charles knox That's right Dormin never tells him that, so there was no reason to believe they were the good guys and he knew that he had to slay them to revive Mono. He was foolish and reckless but he wasn't really a bad guy in my opinion.
technically you're not the bad guy, you're an alternate version of the bad guy who didn't become the bad guy because the bad guy used you in his schemes that made him the bad guy and then you go rescue that same means all the while not knowing that when you stop the bad guy you're also the cause of the bad guy....bloody multiverse theory....so I guess "accessory to bad guy?"
Spec ops the line was by far the most mind blowing thing ever. I legit got goose bumps. Also I live in Dubai. No way we're ever going to reach that state. My he goddess of oil money protect us.
So many people write comments to these videos with seriousness, contemplating the the many themese and games mentioned in hopes to spark a meaningful conversation, and access responds to pineapples. Well played access, well played
When i saw the video the first character that I thought about was him, but I'm really not sure if he is actually bad, because he was just used by Dormin, and had no bad intentions
What I liked about Heavy Rain, is that the player agency is what makes Shelby a sympathetic character. The player can assume he's a good guy and he can help save convenience store clerks instead of allow their demise. The counter to "He's such a nice guy, though", is that he wasn't. You just made him that way to fit your own perception.
+Arkanjo Teixeira it would, like life and death. Light and dark but at the same time it would be like water and ice trees and grass it would be. Pretty cool
Can Gabriel/Dracula in C:LOS/LOS2 really be counted as a bad guy when he ends up killing the ultimate evil (aka Satan) by some starchild prophecy? I'd say more of an anti-hero than anything.
You, sir are the best comedic presenter on YT I've yet come across. You've the typically British cynicism with an attention to detail that reminds me of a young Billy Connelly. Keep up the hilarious work my English friend.
I thought for sure Darth Revan would be here. Playing through 70% Knights of the Old Republic and then learning that you were the former Darth was a big plot twist.
Joel makes the right choice imo. If you read the lore pieces in that area, you'll see that the fireflies had tried to synthesize a cure from multiple children who were immune. And none of them worked. Essentially, Ellie would have died for nothing.
Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up when it has the potential to save humanity. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
Not for nothing, scientists and engineer's don't just keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. They do things differently every time until they find something that works. The first Iphone, how do you think that was made? That they just thought up the exact model of the iPhone after a few cups of coffee? No, it's trial and error the basic principles of building/making/growing/etc anything
What about Dark Souls? No good guy would ever kill Sif, or Quelaag. Or worse, kill Quelaag, and then the fair lady while her servant watches What a cockwomble we were
Also Priscilla, I never wanted to even fight any of them, I'm only glad that some of them were optional, poor Sif and Quelaag though they didn't deserve to die... T_T
if I recall correctly I was pissed at Shelby being the killer because of one scene that completely misleads you, since you are PLAYING as him, while looking for the killer and doing nothing shady, yet when the whole twist is revealed we are treated to a flashback where he actually DOES something shady during the exact moment where you're controlling him. Kinda like the game going "nuh-uhhh he's not the killer. see? you even CONTROL him!" and then laughing at you like "lol we totally lied. the thing you did? that never happened. it was all just a lie."
Interesting how the different endings to that game seem to change not just what you do, but what happened before the game even started. "Shattered Memories" pulls a similar trick.
Mega Zeta I forgot to mention that the director of Silent Hill 2 stated that the In Water ending is the canon ending. And it makes sense, the games either have a water theme (rust is caused by oxidation which is usually caused by contact with water) or fire. Jame's fog isn't like Harry's or anybody else's in, instead his fog is steam. You also find various corpses throughout Silent Hill that look like James, representing that he is in fact already dead. I have other suicide theories for the other Team Silent games.
Mega Zeta You meet Angela near a pond, Maria near a lake, and Eddy leaning over a toilet. You fight Pyramid Head in a room with water blocking your way out, in a sewer and further in a room made completely of rusted metal. You fight Eddy in a meat locker filled with ice and meat. One of the levels is a prison located beside the lake representing both how he's imprisoned in his guilt and the way in which he died due to the amount of falling you have to do in that level. You have to cross said lake to get to the final level which is a lake side hotel. If you look really close at the wood in the fire when Angela dies it's wet. You fight the final boss in the rain. There's a massive water motif in the game that you only really notice when you realize which ending in the canon ending. The more you know about the game the better it gets in my opinion. I could also argue the suicide limbo theory for Silent Hills 1, 3, 4, 5, and Downpour.
the protagonist from Shadow of the collosus, even while he did it for a greater cause, he ended up trespassing the sacred lands, and even becoming the bad guy himself at the end.
I didn't just kill the doctor who was blocking my way in The Last Of Us, I switched to the flamethrower so it would hurt and the other two would know what was coming if they gave me any lip.
I didn't even kill them, i just winged them in the shoulder. Even if they are on the wrong side they're just doing their job which is to help others. Plus i have a lot of respect for intellectuals, being one myself
+Adinda Kayla Its not a simple situation think about part three of the trolley problem wouldn't quite call someone evil/villianous for allowing a four random people to die rather than their spouse, daughter or other loved one. its not like Joel never killed anyone out of anything more than self defense until that scene either. I heavily doubt his actions will cause the extinction of the human race either sure a lot of people won't be able to be saved but what he did wasn't exactly evil. I do think Ellie knew she was going to die and had accepted it though. He truly had done it against her wishes, but he wasn't exactly ill intentioned.
+DeadliestBeef The cure may not have been discovered/found, and then he would've also lost Ellie in the process as well. He didn't dare risk it, which is understandable. Life without her would be meaningless, even if there were to be a cure for the breakout. That's as villainous as it is sweet.
I just played The Last of Us for the first time today and it blew my mind. At first I thought what Joel did was incredibly selfish but I still understood it. I get that he wasn't ready to give it all up. But then I thought about it some more and I thought that a guy like Joel who has seen some terrible stuff must not have that much faith in humanity especially in such a messed up world. And I understood his actions more than ever. That he wasn't ready to give up the best thing that ever happened to him for such a messed up world. That's all. :D
In heavy rain, the origami killer kidnaps kids to see how far their parents would go to save their kids, because when the killer was a kid his dad was drunk and refused to help his drowning son.
In the Last of us you can find a note of the Fireflies mentioning that Ellie wasn't the 1st case of immunity(although only partial immunity in the previous cases) found but after dissecting the previous cases their scientists still have no clues about a potential cure.(every time the surgeon was sure the previous patient would have led him to a cure) In the end what Joel said at the end was a half truth. Beside from Marlene's journal you find out she was ordered to kill Joel after he had brought Ellie to them. So if he didn't she would have shoot him once he turned his back.
That end sequence of the Last of Us stuck with me. Throughout it there was this feeling of 'This is wrong, I shouldn't do this' but then I was thinking about it and realised its not only the choice I'd have made. but If the game ended any other way I wouldn't have liked it. That really made me connect with Joel at the end realising how attached I'd grown to Ellie as a character to protect. NO IM NOT CRYING, ITS RAINING IN HERE, IN MY HOUSE DAMNIT!
I never trusted the Fireflies, those recordings turned me even more against them, they were planning on killing Joel even before he brought Ellie to them. Their whole operation just seemed suspicious to me, I don't think they're good guys at all, they might see themselves as good, but, something about just seems...off.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember finding a journal entry in the last of us that talked about they had found multiple people who had been immune to the spores, and they kept killing them trying to find a cure and failing.
You're missing the point. Humanity doesnt need to be saved and it probably SHOULDN'T be saved. After all Humanity is the worst of the two in the game. Thats shown when Ellie and Joel encounter David and his men. They were CANNIBALS. I mean think about it. Save THAT? THAT is essentially what men are. And I think what Naughty Dog was trying to get across was that Joel's love for Ellie was stronger than his will to let her be killed for science (that may not even work, they weren't even sure) and this theme of father and daughter love and the power of staying together to the end. it's very frustrating that this went completely over everyone's head. The Fireflies were the "True Bad Guys All Along" because they were willing to kill an innocent little girl, to save themselves. MEN killed his original daughter and MEN were trying to kill this one. Men destroyed the world and then AFTER made it a horrifying existence (Bandits, Cannibals) even though the zombies were already an immense danger. Theorizing or not at the end of the day, if you're a good man, you would've done the same as Joel.
RobbJohnnyJenkins Yes, because Ellie certainly wasn't willing to do whatever was necessary to find this cure herself. Also, the sacrifice of a single person in order to try and help the rest of humanity, which included way more than just David and his men, is so terrible isn't it? Yes, given the state that the world is in, some people will more than likely turn to the most extreme examples of depravity, but that doesn't speak for everyone does it? I mean, just think about how many more good people, like that father/son pair they met up with, will end up having to possibly kill each other in order to prevent the other from becoming like the creatures that now overrun the planet because Joel decided that saving one life was worth condemning the rest of the planet. And do keep in mind, like I said previously, even if was the case that they weren't sure, he did not necessarily know that. There was nothing in the narrative outside of those audio files that ever even hinted at the idea that this had that low of a chance of working. And do keep in mind as well that he straight up lied to Ellie about the whole thing at the end of the game. He had to do that because, as previously stated, Ellie did indeed want to go through with it, she stated this during the game. She knew she was humanity's only hope, and Joel made the choice for her, then lied to her about what happened.
AssassinoJaxon But it's more than that. Lets say the Fireflies managed to make a vaccine, how would they have mass produced it, or or delivered it to everyone. They lost half the team just making it to that facility. And that's if they wanted to give it to everyone, which I highly doubt. No, they were willing to kill Ellie for themselves and that's it. Even if they could have made a vaccine though and mass produced it, I still say Joel did the right thing. The rest of the world isn't his problem, as selfish as that sounds.
@@AssassinoJaxon The Fireflies failed any attempt at creating a vaccine. They killed all the immune humans before Ellie. Plus, How you are going to mass produce a vaccine in a world like that? You simply can't. They don't have the the tools, power and structures to do it. Plus Fireflies are seen badly by the majority of the Humans. How they are supposed to convince people that they made a vaccine and people should take it if everyone doesn't trust you? Its obvious they wanted to make a vaccine only for them. Also the whole Plot of the game is kinda Bullshit. They gived a basically impossible mission to 1 man and 1 woman (Tess). They needed 1 year to make it to the facility because of all the Odds and it was just by a miracle. Marlene counted on a Miracle. They didn't know where the Fireflies were and they didn't have a transport for most of the Story. If Marlene atleast gived them the exact position of the Firefly Base they probably wouldn't even encountered David or needed to Stop at Jackson.
Lol no, there was some legitimate reasoning by what he was saying, but it is suspicious that he has never cared to warn against spoilers in the beginning of videos before. Then Oxbox have buddied up before though so I'm sure it's harmless fun.
Joel was not a bad guy! You the player had the option not to kill the doctors. Ive played through 3 times and never killed them once except the one that held the scalpel. Seriously you make good videos but Joel in no way deserves to be on the list. Yeah he lied to Ellie. Maybe to spare her the pain of knowing her moms friend wanted her killed and disected?? Seriously if Joel is evil might as well add Ellie too cause she hurt the guy while she was in the cage when he was giving her food. Oh but never mind he put her in there to begin with. Then are you going to tell me the fireflies would just stop coming after them if they got away? No Joel had to kill the leader of the fireflies otherwise they would keep coming after them. With her gone the group will be in dissaray for years maybe longer. Joel isnt evil and in no way deserves to be on this list!
+Jaylan Vergara ok first off calling someone stupid just makes you a troll so don't even bother replying. Maybe if ud said it without calling me stupid id be inclined to give a decent reply but as you just decided to call me stupid idgaf what you have to say.
Ok that makes sense. Its just one of those situations where its a hard choice He bonded with Ellie and after his daughter got shot and all itd be much harder to let go a second time in a similar situation. I can definitely see what you mean and they probably should have had alternate endings in that case but id probably have made the same decision as Joel did. Also thank you to most of you guys for being civil and not being trolls.
The last character makes me think of the guy from " as above, so below Movie" when his little brother got stuck in a cave and drowned and he said he went for help.......but did he? Apparently no.
