7AGE - Worth it? 4AGE vs 7AGE 

Whats your pick? And more importantly, what version sounds the best?

I think this shows just how much having a good head matters

As a fellow new zealander i thank you for your 4age wisdom, much appreciated.

Great work! Thanks for sharing!

Amazing video! Good job. Very interesting 😊

Wooww that ending scream is fabulous.

That 7A would be a good motor for street 86 with air con and a tow bar.

Good comparison. Would love to see the 1600 stroker (5age) in there to see how it compares. I run a turbo mrp 5age with cnc smallport and it absolutely sings. Na 5age would definitely be interesting how it performs.

Im currently building a 7age engine with an 2zzge crankshaft .crankshaft has machined for the support bearings and better rpm caracter

I've built a couple of them, it did feel more balanced driving. I guess a bit like a more modern engine. Like less fluff on the bottom. Both of them still needed to pass smog so they were as stock as could be.

10k rpm sounds so good ❤

Big job 👏

My dream build would be your good engine... sounds exquisite

Amazing video so many people have this question 7a or 4a . I think the 7a don't rev up to 9k because it have 85.5mm stroke and 81mm bore. Will be interesting see how the 4age rev up with stroke kit 83mm stroke 82mm bore thanks for all your videos

Good engine all day what sound🤙

If I was building N/A I’d go with the lighter 1600 with a blacktop head, but shortly I’m gonna do a 7age turbo build using a blacktop head with poncams. The added displacement will help the turbo spool I hope. Mr G4A I wish you did more 20v head stuff!!

Great videos, been watching for some time now! 🎉 Could you do a video on injector timing/phasing? Open valve Vs closed valve?

You can hear the extra displacement. Would be interesting with a 20V Head. I played with the idea for some time, to get a 7A-FE Corolla Hatch and import a nice Silver or Blacktop from Japan. But I had to push that back. Maybe someday...

I think this shows just how much getting good head matters

i think the better bet is to change the rod ratio on the 4age and start chasing higher revs. but then your getting into the dry sump territory. vht racings 4age was a little monster at 11,300 rpm

Can confirm 7AG's are hard to make power up top. Mine has a cnc-ported head and shimless bucket cams with big lift and it runs out of breath at around 8500. The mid range torque is amazing though.

Nice Starlet!

Well you have to combine 7age block with 4age head and crank with long rods and custom pistons to make legendary 9age

Do you think its not great having a high revving 7age. Because i got a 20v blacktop head and a 7afe block but I don’t know how high i can rev it. The head has tomei cams, supertech springs and retainers and its ported

If you guys want a light 1800cc engine and good power, just get the 2zz swap kit from niteparts and with some bolt ons and standalone, it has been proven to make 215whp on 93oct pump gas on fwd though

Thanks

Good engine for noise, That 7a needs some big port work done to make it worth while, the turd would be better as it's power is over a longer duration so you can gear it to take advantage of it

I love listening to that thing❤

I have a 2.3l Isuzu trooper hear in the states, are there any performance mods worth doing? 93hp/73kw

@Garage4age what's the best pipe size for a 16V smallport?

i wonder how much a little boost on both setups would change things? i see the 7age a great street engine and adding boost would only make that better

Who doesn't like a little 4 cylinder on song you have some strong engines, the 1800 looks like an marketing afterthought redesign not worth the hassle of tuning by the looks of it, unless you decide to play forced induction where flow and rpm matters a bit less. Haven't seen you running anything with supercharger 👍

You've done the 4A, the 4A long rod and the 7A. Now we need somebody to donate a 83mm "strocker" crankshaft and custom rods for the cause. So then you could try the "5"AG (strocked 4AG) and, something that I thought a lot about, but I have never seen before: the "6"AG (83mm destrocked 7A, or "5"A long rod depending on how you see things) 6A bottom end, "good engine" cylinder head and VVTI could be an interesting combo😋

Guys, pay attention to the measuring torque scale. It is completely out of the norm.

Dat 225hp 10,000rpm monster. Sounds orgasmic

Sheesh love the rpm! Pretty stout for such a small engine with locked cam timing.

And how can one achieve such revolutions / min ?, Exactly at 4A-GE????

would you ever try fit a hayabusa head on a 1600cc?

Would love to see what it takes to get the 7A power band extended...and making some good torque at/above 7K.

I woud love to see you work whit a 2zz-ge

guess this is why the 7a mod isnt as popular anymore since the stock bottom can do better with less cc's.

What about 3sge with similar specs to the good 4a?

loved the low down torque of the long rod 7A 1800cc motor... cause its all about the torque curve in real life.. Would be interesting to see if you could develop a moveable trumpet stack based on RPM on the fly (controlled via ECU like Emtron Australia ((ask for Ben,)) Maybe they are interested in "loaning you a KV8 for the task!) so you can flatten the dips in the RPM range. Thank you for doing all this real world work! It shows people that there are a lot of myths out there without basis.. As you may know great working cams are custom build to the specific head flow parameters.. So off the shelf cams can be OK but not great if you've done any kind of flow work done.

Do you think it could be a bottom end issue like when you made the rods longer it had higher rpm power and now there shorter with the longer stroke

Have you seen the CNC ported 4AGE heads that MRP sell? It would be interesting to see how they perform compared to a hand ported one

what's with the 3A-U name on the head?

Did I miss a video on the Good Engine? 168kw is incredible!

Good timing on these 7age videos, I'm in the planning stages of doing an engine build for my AW11. I am considering whether I should build up the 4age in it, or do a 7age build since I have access to a 7afe. From the dyno sheets here it seems like the 4age head chokes out a bit trying to fill that extra 200ml of air. I wonder how much some intake porting, higher duration/lift cams, and perhaps bigger valves could do for it. My end goal is ~180hp to the wheels naturally aspirated, with at least some attempt at retaining a bit of street-friendliness. Do you think a 7age setup would open up significantly more with a better flowing head? Really debating which I should do. Would be great to see further testing of getting more power from the 7age! Always love your videos, thanks for documenting all this testing that you do!

Hey man, what do you think of factory Toyota piston rings? Do you use new factory ones when you rebuild your engines? Is there a better aftermaket option like Mahle rings or anything better?

Any idea on the compression ratio of the 7A? If it is too low, might explain why there is no substantial power gain, aside from lower revs.

bigger cams. so u could say that at 7500 its flowing the same amount of air as the 4age turd at 9000

What can one expect out of an 7age with bigport/tvis? And also, what would be the typical output of an old 1st gen 4afe? Thanks in advance

Time to start comp testing each motor ... that 7a looks like half of it comes out the exhaust on every run 😅

Would the 1600 head on the 1800 gained anything from an increase in compression ratio?

Question! Do the dei titanium heat wraps around headers - exhaust pipe change anyyyyything performancewise?

Seems like the cylinder head is limiting the power potential. A bigger engine needs more. All the heads are to small for the 7AF. If it works great on a 4ag it needs to be bigger on the larger engine. Bigger valves and higher flowing ports with more cam lift.

Holy crap your "good engine" is epic. I'm in the middle of sorting out my 20v intake, made 83kw stock engine, 110kw with exhaust and cams, 120kw with 12.9:1 comp built engine oversized valves and porting and 194b cams with vct. Now full 3" Exhaust making 127kw but the intake mods you did with the 4" inlet will be getting done soon. Hoping to break 130kw. I cant imagine making 160+kw with this engine. Are 20v even capable of that even with big cams? Or is the big port the only way to go? Thoughts? If you are interested in being hired to improve my setup i'd love to go over things with you.

"not a dead cat" happened before has it ?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

If you talk about, for sample cam 8 deg advance, what do you mean? Do you mean at 8 deg. on camshaft or crankshaft? Sorry, my English is not so good.

1600 was always the winner Do both the 4age 16v heads have the spec spec in terms of head with flow, port, valves etc?

if you ever get the opportunity from anybody, get your mits on a 9age. 16 or 20 head. Really wanna see what those put down

Now try a 2jz ge vvti?

We would like to hear 11000rpm :)

Would 7a combo would benefit from longer intake runners? Improves medium rpm power probably.

Are your torque stat is correct ? i see there is up to 500nm on the wheels

Honestly neither, I'd rather spend the money on a dyno like you did, and start fiddling later on, 225whp (rivaling Atlantic motors) on chinesium rods says it all, a lot of time on the dyno means you get more out of less. "BWAOP" 7500 and thats it for rev-range, at least stock 4a is more fun through that same revband 😁

Love the spike of the 4age 1600 Franken setup, sound so healthy and awesome at the high end What’s the specs of the setup there?

This hurts because my stock 2JZ GE VVTi made 122kw or 164hp with intake and headers. Yikes.

bruh, in my country, 1600cc doing almost 200HP is sickness!!!!

As I suspected this 'long stroke' engine have some problems to make power up to 6000rpm. Friction/inertial looses + not enought flow is probably the problem. Yet I'd like to see a last test with a 'good' big valves head and 300º+ cams. Even so, 7AGE is not that bad for street use... but if you like RPM'S.... 4AGE all the way

I have a couple questions if you don't mind answering them if you don't want to read the backstory skip to the bottom. So I have a car that needs an engine rebuild, It is currently un-tunable and making it tunable will be a matter of time and money but my piston rings decided to no longer work (assuming that's what happened, it still runs and drives pretty well just haven't taken engine out yet). So now I am going to be rebuilding the engine before I can tune the car which limits my freedom in selecting parts. I am planning on getting off the shelf forged rods and custom ordering the pistons, upgraded hardware and bearings, and for the head I'm gonna send it off to a reputable shop that has motorsports experience for a rebuild. My questions are on an untuned car (oem ecu and rom) what are the limits of engine modification, if I only use 91 octane or higher am I safe to bump the compression ratio by .5 or 1? And for the cylinder head I plan on using upgraded valvetrain with an oem cam would some light "corrective" porting benefit without throwing my car out of wack, my plan would be to swap the cam for a more aggressive grind and some other supporting mods when I swap to a standalone ecu later down the line. Ideally I would have a standalone ecu first or the financial leeway to do both but I just cant justify that right now so engine takes priority. Also this is a 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse I'm talking about so its a fairly modern computer but still dumb, I know it can "ignore" a lot of stuff. Thanks, some guy with car

So which setup do you like the best, taking power and overall reliability into account?

👍

That 7a 7,4k redline sounds bog lazy compared to the 9,4k+ of the 4a 's 😅🥴😏

Dumb question: What about a carburated 7age? Is it doable, realistic?

225hp N/A 4age wow

How did you get the blacktop throttles to 52mm?

The logical follow-up to this video is obviously the subject of the mythical 9A-GE. An engine that shouldn't exist yet it does.

If you bump compression up that 1800 bottom end will come alive.

So what's the reason for the missing KW? Compression ratio?

Doesn't DK's 7age make 232hp or something? Then again it also revs very high.

4age is the only real option... No point in going 7a because you may as well just go 3sge red or black top beams if displacement is what is needed

ok power aside. What gives the best chop 😂🤘🏽

I'm baffled. I was expecting more. How much compression ratio does the 7Age have? It shows really how good your good engine is.

You need a 20v head to make more power

What would this be in American horsepower and torque?

Give that 1800cc a better camshaft and it will BLAST!

Can the 7a rev higher?

The "good engine" is starting to sound like a sport bike

mental

What car is this?

So far they seem like more work than they are worth

not enough praise.

bruh 7A was meant for more torque less top end power, if it's power you want to do a 9AGE

10000 ? crikey ❤

me looking at this with my 7a thinking i was cool. shit.

Hi!

4A has stroke of 77mm, at 10krpm, mean piston speed is ~25.6m/s. 7A has stroke of 85.5mm and for same mean piston speed, max rpm would be ~9000. It's a linear relationship- by increasing displacement with stroke, you exchange displacement for max rpm. If you geared it to compensate, it would initially seem like they'd be basically equal. The longer stroke/lower revving engine does have an advantage though- inertia/resonance intake and exhaust tuning doesn't have to accommodate as wide a range with a lower rpm engine. Therefore, your average torque across the whole rpm range will be higher than the lower displacement higher rpm engine. This should give better overall performance, even if peak power stays the same. Also, lower rpm means lower frictional losses in bearings of the same size. If you built the 7A the same as the 'good' engine and made the final drive ratio ~11% taller, it would perform better overall.

The 4AGE is superior Thanks to Yamaha Has Toyota actually made a good engine without Yamaha?

why your engine makes so many oil smoke? Is it your secret to make more power, hahaahha?