7mm PRC vs 6.8 Western? 

I was so confused last night... I watched it twice because I thought I missed it... lol

@@chrisbrunson6761 lol😂 ME TOO

Ron we can call that part of your bloopers.

Lol, I watched that whole video anyway. I was a little confused. That was good stuff too, though!

I was watching last night and wondering what was going on lol..Thank for the content

a 7 with a decent rifle fitted with a great recoil pad and can will be handy and versatile for bigger game than the 6.5 PRC or the 6.8 for sure. just wait for right rifle options. nice to hear dies available for reloading custom loads, especially with few decent factory ammo.

From your hunting experience, how well would 7mm magnum or 300 WM do out of a shorter AR platform (30 round mags) for self defense situations? Im used to tradional .223 AR or 7.62x39 AK. Thank you.

@@tinhatrancher904 The cartridges would take a long action and the muzzle blast from a short barrel would be terribly deafening. The 7mm RM and the 300 WM are best considered for long range defense in a good bolt action rifle. The current crop of new cartridges based on the AR platform would provide the best selection for close to medium ranges when faster fire rates would be preferred.

@@mattevans-koch9353 Thank you that explanation makes sense.

We used an Argentine Mauser on our last hunt in south texas. Great round for that part of texas

@@tinhatrancher904 You should look into another new cartridge with great energy and shorter flight the 350 legend in an AR.

I have a 25-06 and it's ideal.

I want a 22 250 how ever. If I can't get one,a 223 will suffice

Just be aware that the 6.8 Western won't fit in many short actions since it is 2.955" long. Many short actions are closer to 2.81", the length of a 308.

@@jfess1911 what I’ve read is that maximum OAL is 2.995”, that is doable. I still like the idea of a sub 44” rifle that is 6,9-7,5 pounds.

@@RadDadisRad I suspect that the 2.955" listed in SAAMI specs for both the 6.8 Western and 6.5 PRC was chosen for a specific reason. My guess is that there is a relatively popular action out there that could not go beyond this length. Certainly the the current Winchester and Browning actions, but I wonder if there are others?

@@jfess1911 Winchester short action accommodates 2.995” OAL since they manufacture ELD ammunition for this round. I do understand what you’re stating. I’m digging through forums and I believe that 2.995” is a typo because SAAMI holds a pretty tight ship. I don’t suspect that they would let 0.04” slip through like that. So I’m going to agree with you that you’re right that some short actions will accommodate the 6.8 western but not all and that 2.955” is going to be difficult to find a short action for.

@@RadDadisRad Link to SAAMI page for the 6.8 Western. saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/6.8-Western-Public-Introduction-Orig-2020-11-01.pdf

But....but.... what if you see a deer over on the NEXT mountain over and don't feel like walking??? 😀

@@jfess1911 😂 you're lucky to see more than 50 yards in the Appalachian mountains. And the 308 can take a deer from several hundred yards easily. 🎯

@@Ben-ry1py I too grew up in Western NC and had thought of the 308 as a long range cartridge. I remember almost laughing the first time I saw a 7mm Rem Mag and thinking "who on earth would ever shoot that far?"

@@jfess1911 I've never shot or seen a 7mm rem mag. I'm 40, and haven't gotten to hunt much at all as my dad only went a couple times when I was very young. I got my first hunting license a few weeks ago. I've spent untold hours learning more about ballistics and hunting, and I've ended up with all military rounds 223, 7.62x39, and 308 as I'm a practical man. Ammo costs will pretty quickly outpace a well priced firearm, and availability is really good. I'm actually finding that the 7.62x39 is my favored gun for deer, as the 308 is just overkill inside of 100 yards....with good shot placement of course. I want to spend a while shooting longer ranges with less efficient/powerful rounds before I ever upgrade to a magnum as I want to build really good shooting skills first. Now I just need to find a place I can shoot more than 100 yards! I know there are some around. Maybe one day I'll get to hunt in the open country!

Christensen and others are making them now

Oooo, me too!

How does the BC compare?

@@danielbutcher5836 the 175 game king isn’t as high as the 165 ablr

I'm in the same boat. Would love a 6.8 bergara!

Unfortunately, I don't think we will see many rifles chambered for 6.8 Western. It's for the simple fact that Winchester is both a manufacturer of ammunition and rifles. Similar to nosler and weatherby. You won't see competitors chambering for each other's pet projects no matter how good they really are. That's where Hornady has the advantage of only producing ammunition and components. The 7 PRC will take off in the coming years much more than the 6.8 western. Which is unfortunate because even I prefer the Western. However, it is a simple barrel change away from any rifle that is chambered for 6.5 PRC or any of the WSM cartridges. Food for thought.

Christensen chambers 6.8 western and a few others

6.8 Western is a complete mike drop on about everything 6.5 to 300. Just buy a Remington 700 action and a decent stock, then custom bartlien barrel with a 1:7.5 twist and 26-29 barrel and you will smoke the dog shit out of any of these 7mms and certainly the 6.5s.

@@dexterlecter7289 hah let me tell you! It does! Only diff is I have a tikka action on my 28” barrel! 165 able over 3000fps. Dumps anything in its tracks!!

Well if ur buying a new gun why not get a better bc round?

I’ve got both, my whitetail cartridge for anything under 300-400 is still my 7-08 which is fantastic. Anything over and I’ll grab a 6.5 Prc or 7 Prc. I also have a lightweight 6.5 grendel for 300 and in in mountainous terrain. Just harvested a 9 point whitetail with that 7-08 this morning.

If ur getting a 7-08 I’ve had fantastic results with my tikka chambered for it. Couldn’t be happier.

@@Mountain-Man27 ohh ok yeah makes sense I got my deer this year with a 308 but after watching my brother drop a huge mule deer from 598 yards with a 6.8 western I’ve been really wanting to pick one up

@@Mountain-Man27 this is me exactly. I use and love my 7-08. Here in Idaho I use it for Mule deer and have taken a few cow elk with it. However for anything bigger or further than 400, I grab my 6.5 PRC

Those velocities you stated for the 6.8 Western are gonna put you WAAAY above SAAMI spec max pressure. By the time you see traditional pressure signs in modern actions (especially custom) you’re most likely up around 80,000 PSI vs the SAAMI spec 60,000-68,000 for many cartridges. And the WSMs won’t give you the performance in factory rifles because of what you said, they don’t have enough room to seat the bullets out or the twist rates necessary to stabilize the modern projectiles. The 7mm PRC and 6.8 Western for that matter were designed to provide factory rifle options that would give you the performance that a custom rifle gives you. You just simply can’t do that with older cartridges. Don’t get me wrong I love short mags but these new cartridges (especially the PRC family in my opinion) are very impressive.

hardly worth it unless barrel is ready anyway to be replaced. but understand the want for a new toy or challenge

100%!!

don't think the 6.8 western will be dead any time soon now that people have found that the 7prc is constantly 150 FPS + slower than Hornady's claimed box speed. The 6.8 is constantly a little faster than box speed. Federal is going to start loading 6.8 w in their Terminal Accent 160 grain at almost 3000 FPS. Hopefully Norma and Sako will follow

Dang luck for me I have a sportmans warehouse near and they have both. Reload brother

The Western kicks less than the 7 PRC. The 7 PRC has more options with ammo and rifle companies. You can find lighter rifles in the 6.8 Western due to the short action and shorter barrels. Personally, I prefer a short action, and I like my rifle as light as possible. So I chose the Western. I have found quality ammo online from Choice Ammunition, and from Pendleton Ammunition for the 6.8 Western. I purchased a Christiansen Arms Ridgeline FFT that weighs 5.2 pounds. I mounted a 13 oz Leupold VX-3 4-14 scope that adds to the weight savings. So far, my rifle is sitting around 6 pounds. I barely notice it on my shoulders. Due to the canyons and steep terrain, weight was extremely important to me. From what I’ve read, both Fierce and Seekins are producing excellent rifles chambered in the 6.8 Western, as well as Christiansen, Browning, and Winchester. Both cartridges are excellent. So it’s really up to you and what’s important. For me, it was the need for a light weight rifle. For others, availability at their local sporting goods store was important. You’ll be happy with either. I’d recoil is the most important thing for you, then the Western is the better option.

@@jimedick9496 Thanks for your feedback , I appreciate the advice and information. Not sure if the Christensen Arms is in my budget lol , but I will look into that as an option . I agree with you 100 % on the weight being the biggest factor. I lived and hunted in Colorado for many years , most people don’t understand when you’re hoofing around in the mountainous terrain how taxing it is on your body . Lighter is always better ! I believe that the 6.8 is here to stay , it just seems to be very balanced as a cartridge without getting too overbore and too punishing on the shoulder .

@@NorthwoodsNomad The only budget rifle out there for the 6.8 Western is Winchester. I haven’t heard a lot of info about the Winchester XPR. If it has a good warranty, and that’s the cartridge you’ve set your sites on, then I personally would look into it. If they’re not good about warranty, then I’d pass. I don’t know enough about Winchesters warranty and reputation to give an opinion on, I just know that they are in the $600 range. Browning has the X-Bolt rifle that I’ve heard, and read, good results with. A buddy of mine literally just picked up a Browning X-Bolt 6.8 Western for $870 at Sportsman’s Warehouse last Saturday. It’s on sale right now with a savings of $210 off the original price. We plan on taking our rifles out to shoot as soon as the weather clears up. I’ll update what I think after we shoot a box through it. The other option is the 6.5 PRC. It has milder recoil than both the 6.8 Western and 7 PRC. I own one, and I like that cartridge. You’re topping out at 143 grain bullets for hunting rounds, though I’ve read Berger has 156 grain bullet for the 6.5 PRC. I’m not sure if that’s for reloading only, or if it’s available in factory ammo.

@@jimedick9496 Right now I’m looking at the Winchester model 70 Long Range (MB) 6.8 Western , 24” fluted barrel with Muzzle Break ( MB ) Bell and Carlson carbon fiber dual pillar glass bedded ,dual swivel studs on the vented fore end , 13.5” LOP , 1 : 8” twist , tan with black spider web textured stock , 44” overall length , 7lbs 8oz ….$1.349.00 I think that’s a lot of rifle for the money .

@@NorthwoodsNomad I just looked that rifle up on Sportsman’s Warehouse website…. That’s a good looking setup!!! My grandfather used a model 70 his entire life before it was stolen. My brother in law has one and it’s a tack driver. Mind if I ask a question? What’s your budget? Is a short barrel, like 20” too short for your preference? I only ask because of what we both talked about earlier. I’m in my middle 50’s, but I’m also missing a half a foot, so weight is very important to me, so much that it was my number one objective…. You mentioned being older and the weight of your rifle as something you consider. The Model 70 isn’t heavy, but it’s not light either, but if the 7 lbs is in your comfort range, then my questions are moot. That Model 70 is terrific rifle.

I just looked at 7mm WSM compared to 6.8 Western. 7mm WSM edges it out, but you don’t see a lot of ammo for it. If you already have 7mm Rem Mag, 28 Nosler, and 300 PRC, you definitely aren’t getting anything with 7mm PRC, provided you have good enough twist rates in those to stabilize the really long bullets.

You really should look at the 6.5 PRC in lieu of the WSM and WSTRN

@@Airohunter 6.5 PRC really shocked me at how low-recoil it is. I can’t tell the difference between it and 6.5CM, and to be honest, the way the rifle was set-up, it had less felt recoil than I think any 6.5CM I have shot. It was CF too, very lightweight. I went home and ordered 6.5 PRC brass without even having a rifle yet.

Let’s be honest though it the PRC was available when you got your custom rem mag, you would have just got the PRC instead

@@devinb3397 Probably not. Where’s the 7 PRC ammo?

7 RM and 7 PRC ballistics identical ( about same case cap)( OAL is the dif) with the same bullet, 7 PRC uses 200 Pluss bullets and has 1-8 twist to stabilize, 7 RM Long action and 1-9.5 twist good for 180 grns bullets, same for the 30 Cal but the 300 PRC uses a Magnum Action to seat 220+ bullets further out and 1-8 twist

Ballistics programs are free. You can plug in all the bullets you want, at muzzle velocities typical for the cartridge, and see how they all pan out. I’ve done it for most of those over the years. More important variables are: * How often and what type of training do you do for shooting? * Do you hand-load? * What regions are you using these to hunt in? 6.5CM will cover anything in the Eastern US, and Mountain West as long as you keep your shots within a certain range/hit probability in the vitals if going for elk. 6.5PRC is a great low-recoil cartridge for Mountain West, very easy to train with, while bringing a lot more performance than 6.5PRC. I would add 7mm WSM and 7mm SAUM to that list. 7mm WSM with the right throat and tight twist is hard to beat.

ADG brass is looking to produce brass for the 6.8 Western later on this year. Barnes, Sierra, Berger, Nosler, Winchester, and Browning are all producing high BC, heavy for caliber bullets for the 6.8 Western. It seems things are picking up for the Western in regard to ammo. Christensen Arms, Fierce, and Seekins are now producing rifles chambered in 6.8 Western as well as Winchester and Browning.

I was going to comment that the biggest win for the 7 is not exclusively having to shoot Winchester factory ammo for the non handloaders lol

I agree. Only Winchester and Browning will make factory rifles for 6.8 Western. But every company will make a rifle for 7PRC. I think In a few years 6.8 Western will cease to exist in favor of the more popular PRC cartridges

Christensen Arms is chambering for 6.8 Western

It doesn’t really matter get whichever one is cheaper most game is shot within 300 anyways should be just fine with a 30-30 instead

@@paulsmith2058 you are wrong there is a long list of rifles makers for the 6.8W and like said even Christensen Rifles just jumped on the wagon.

7 PRC is the only good choice

A standard action isn’t common? Sorry what? So 30-06’s, 270’s, 300win mags and 7mm rem mags don’t exist at all?

@@devinb3397 No, standard action cartridges are plenty common. Standard action receivers, not so much. Most push feed bolt actions skip the standard long action and go straight to magnum length action. So if you have a 7mm Rem Mag in a Rem M700, you can seat your bullets well beyond the 3.34 in COAL restrictions of a standard long action. If you put a custom barrel on it and run some freebore, you can even touch the lands at 3.62 inches and still feed through a AICS mag, because the Rem Mag has a case length of about 2.5 inches. You can also convert your rifle to .300 RUM with a simple barrel change, and maybe changing the follower in your magazine. This wouldn't be possible if the Remington long action was standard length, because the Ultra Mags would be too long to fit in the receiver. The RUMs do fit in a Remington long action because a Remington long action, like the vast majority of commercially available push feed bolt actions, is a true magnum length action. In order to find a standard long action, you probably have to either run a CRF Pre-64 M70 type action, or buy a $1500 custom receiver from a manufacture like Defiance. Most people aren't going to do this, and most rifle manufactures aren't either. Most people are going to rebarrel an existing rifle and most rifle manufactures are going to put the 7mm PRC in their magnum length action, like they do all the rest of the standard long action cartridges. The difference is that the 7mm PRC is uniquely unqualified to be put in a magnum length action because it was optimized for long VLDs in a true standard long action, so it has a case length is only 2.28 inches. This means that unlike the Rem Mag or .28 Nosler, which have a case length about a quarter in longer, most VLDs aren't long enough to be seated out to 3.6+ inches in the PRC. Hornady optimized the 7mm PRC for an obscure receiver length that almost no one has access to. So more often than not, the PRC is going to find itself in a magnum length action, and is going to be unable to be optimized for this action length like pretty much any other standard long action cartridge. This is asinine. Hornady should gave commercialized the 7mm LRM, or some other magnum length 7mm-.375 Ruger. This would allow for better performance and would make more sense because it would allow the cartridge to make better use of the receiver it is going to find itself in. As it is, the 7mm PRC is a red headed step child, the standard length magnum that makes the least amount of sense. I would run .280 AI, 7mm Rem Mag, or .28 Nosler before 7mm PRC, or even step down in action length to the 7mm SAUM or 7mm Sherman. The PRC is the least useful if the 7mm magnum cartridges.

@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 least useful? Okay tell me a single 7mm cartridge you can buy from dozens of rifle makers, with factory ammo and the twist rate from factory that can handle the heaviest 7mm projectiles. Both the 280 and rem mag need custom barrels and don’t have any factory ammo that have anywhere near the BC. Sure you can get a custom barrel but do most people really want to do that? I honestly cannot be bothered if the option is there from factory to do exactly what I want. the 28 nosler is an absolute barrel burner with recoil absolutely nobody would enjoy without a brake. Me and thousands of others like tikkas and their mags are limited to 3.340. The PRC fits perfectly at that OAL. Who cares if your mag can fit them longer? It still outperforms the rem mag. The market is already satisfied by the 28 nosler and 300PRC for the magnum actions. And I very rarely see those because they’re just huge. Hornady would be stupid to release a direct competitor for the 28. Pretty much 3 big benefits and it will sell big I guarantee. - tight twist from factory in every single rifle made which no ancient 7mm does. - COAL of 3.340 that will fit in any standard action easily, which are super common here in Australia anyway. We hunt in the bush on foot so we don’t want to cart around a big lump like a rem 700. - better efficiency and velocity over the rem mag with less powder Now tell me why you would pick up a rem mag over the PRC, even if your mag is long enough. youd need a custom barrel to shoot heavy projectiles and then still get a lower velocity with more powder.. makes no sense whatsoever. More work to get a worse end result lol.

@@devinb3397 Most of us have better access to a custom barrel than a custom receiver, and we handload by default. There are tens of millions of magnum length actions in ownership by Americans right now. I have a Rem M700 laying around that I was going to rebarrel to 7mm PRC until the specs became available on SAAMI's website. Remingtons and Savages are far more common than Tikkas. So it is easier for me to put a Proof Research barrel in .28 Nosler on a Rem M700, have .22 to .25 in of freebore cut with it, seat a 195 gr Berger to 3.62 to 3.64 or so inches, and send them at 3100 fps than it is to track down a standard long action, which is still going to need a custom barrel, and then run 7mm PRC. Esp since I shoot left handed. It is also easier for me to do essentially the same thing for 7mm Rem Mag; Proof Research barrel on an existing Rem M700 action, adjust dies to headspace off the shoulder and run 180 gr VLDs seated to 3.62 inches or so at just under 3000 fps. This duplicates PRC performance with much better brass. Hornady brass kinda sucks. Having better brass options available for the Rem Mag and .28 Nosler is a big selling point. Barrel life is irrelevant. Complaining about barrel life to someone shooting a 7mm magnum is like complaining about fuel economy to someone driving a one ton pickup. And Proof Research will replace for free any barrel of theirs you shoot out, so buy once cry once. The performance of the .28 Nosler in a magnum length action makes it a much more appealing option than the PRC. And the carbon fiber Proof barrel saves enough weight to more than make up for a slightly longer receiver and a couple inches more barrel. Factory ammo doesn't interest me. It just isn't much of an advantage when serious hunters and shooters all reload. If I was really interested in effeciency and a lightweight rifle, I'd run 7mm SAUM or 6.5 PRC. Again, the 7mm PRC is the worst of both worlds. It doesn't offer the performance of other standard long or magnum length magnums in a magnum length action or the effeciency of the short mags. Easily 98% of the bolt actions on the market are short or magnum length, and marketing a cartridge to the other 2% seems foolish to me.

@@devinb3397 And the .28 Nosler is a standard length magnum, so Hornady did release a direct competitor for the .28 Nosler. The only difference is that the Nosler can be loaded to make full use of the magnum length receiver, while the PRC can't. The PRC outperforming the Rem Mag is also debatable. It is pretty easy to load around the belt, and the Rem Mag has better components and is better able to optimize a magnum length receiver, so if all the PRC offers is no belt and a faster twist, thst might not cut it. The Rem Mag can match its performance in a magnum action with a lower operating pressure, so if you're worried about barrel life, the Rem Mag might be the better option.

A standard length magnum cartridge might offer better ballistics than a short action magnum, but you can at least find a short action magnum receiver. Standard length magnum receivers are so few and far between that most 7mm PRCs are going to end up in magnum length actions. The vast majority of push feed bolt actions are short action or magnum length actions because most manufactures skip the standard length action. And a standard length magnum will never match the ballistics of a magnum length magnum cartridge, so if you are going to end up in a magnum length receiver, most people will be better served skipping the 7mm PRC and getting something that can be optimized for the magnum length action. Between the 6.8 Western and the 7mm PRC, I would choose the 6.8, because it optimizes an action length you can actually find. If I needed more performance from a longer receiver, I would skip the 7mm PRC in favor of any other "standard length magnum" cartridge, because cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag and .28 Nosler can at least be loaded to optimize the magnum length receiver. The 7mm PRC really can't because most bullets aren't long enough to seat out to 3.6+ inches with a case length of 2.28 inches.

@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 again, it’s not about handloads or custom actions/chambers it’s about factory rifles most factory rifles use a standard length action and magazine box. Some newer models use a larger mag box but not many. It’s also about not being overbore which the 28 Nosler definitely is. It’s also about being a better cartridge for handloading than the 7mm Rem Mag because it doesn’t have a belt on it. It’s all about having the most optimum case design for the caliber. 6.8 western is very good for its size though

@@therealgearhunter8935 Most factory rifles use short or magnum length actions. There is almost no factory standard actions. Most factory actions skip the standard action and go straight to the magnum length action. In order to find a true standard length action, you pretty much have to invest $1200+ on a custom action, such as a Defiance. Most people aren't going to do this. Most people are going to rebarrel a Remington M700 or a Savage, and those long actions are magnum length, capable of taking cartridge OAL of 3.6+ inches, depending on magazine choice. Most rifle manufactures aren't going to invest in tooling up and producing a standard length action, they are just going to chamber it in their magnum length action, like they do for every other standard length magnum. The difference is that, unlike the 7mm PRC, these magnums can be optimized for the magnum length action they typically find themselves in. Most of us handload. More of us handload than are willing to track down a true standard length action. Overbore is irrelevant. Arguing overbore to someone looking into a 7mm magnum is like arguing fuel economy to someone looking at a one ton pickup. Chances are if you're buying a Dodge 3500 Cummings, fuel economy isn't as big a priority as towing capacity. And if you're looking at a .28 Nosler, barrel life isn't as big a deal to you as ballistic performance. Optimizing .28 Nosler in a magnum length action with some freebore and a fast twist and seating it to 3.6-some odd inches allows you to run a 195 gr Berger or 197 gr Sierra to ~3100 fps. That is alot of performance. The point is, standard length magnums find themselves in magnum length actions more often than standard length actions. The 7mm PRC is uniquely unqualified to be optimized for the magnum length action. Most standard length magnums have a case length of about 2.5 inches, which allows long VLDs to be seated out to 3.6+ inches. The 7mm PRC has a case length of 2.28 inches because it was designed to seat these bullets in a standard length action with a max OAL of 3.34 inches, so it is unable to make full use of the magnum length action it is going to be typically found in.

@@therealgearhunter8935 Why can you convert a Remington, Savage, or Browning from a standard length magnum like the 7mm Rem Mag, to a magnum length magnum like .300 PRC or .300 RUM, with only a barrel change? Because they are magnum length actions, not standard long actions. So what you are proposing is that Hornady optimized the 7mm PRC for factory production ammo in a receiver length not in factory production. This makes no sense. If you aren't involved in shooting sports enough to handload, there is a 0% chance you are involved in shooting sports enough to track down a $1500 custom receiver in an obscure action length to build your custom rifle on. And then having spent thousands of dollars on your custom rifle, you're going to shoot factory ammo out of it, why exactly? Maximizing factory ammo for a custom action length nobody has is ridiculous. The 7mm PRC is retarded. Hornady screwed the pooch with that one.

@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 you are just wrong. All the manufacturers have mad changes to their standard actions to accommodate larger magnums. They have modified ejection ports, magazines, and so on to stuff larger magnums in standard length actions. Like I said earlier the point of the 7mm PRC is to have a well balanced 7mm magnum that performs in factory rifles. All the things you’re talking about requires a custom rifle with a custom chamber. Just because a mag or action lets you seat bullets further out doesn’t mean the SAAMI chamber will. Which all large rifle manufacturers must stick to using SAAMI spec chambers. And you said it yourself most people who don’t want to handload won’t pay to have custom rifles. Also you are wrong about most people handloading. I work in a large gun shop and only 10% at most of customers I see buying rifles handload their own ammo. Also, nobody said the 7mm PRC was supposed to beat the 28 Nosler or convince someone who has already decided to build a custom 7mm SAUM to buy a 7mm PRC. If you have decided what you want the odds of me changing your mind is low. The 7mm PRC is out there now so that people who are thinking about a new gun can weigh the pros and cons of getting one cartridge over the other and I think most people basing the decision on performance, barrel life, efficiency, and recoil will decide the 7mm PRC is a fantastic choice. If someone is looking for the best performance possible they’ll pick the 28 Nosler and if they are looking for a cartridge that will be a well balanced cartridge and don’t mind that it won’t do as well with high BC heavy for caliber bullets but they do want readily available ammo off the shelf they’ll pick the 7mm Rem Mag. I think you’re problem with the 7mm PRC is that it isn’t what YOU would have made. If that’s the case just get something else or build a custom rifle in a wildcat or non SAAMI spec chamber of an existing cartridge. That’s what I’m doing with a 300 WSM.

Lol they are similar, but a can or a break on. The 7 PRC is just a fad, I bet you anything the short action 6.8 Western will take over the next few years! Most of us have magnums and we want a good short action arse kicker and the 6.8 is it hands down

Personally I think the PRC will over come the 6.8. The 270 wsm sort of died out after not very long. The 300 is alive and well but the 7 and 270 wsm didn't fair well at all and those are short action magnums. Hard to say I guess only time will tell the whole story.

BC is what we use to measure aerodynamic efficiency during the external ballistic path. SD contributes to BC, along with ogive shape and boat tail length/angle, mass, shank length, velocity, rotational energy, and meplat geometry.

So BC is more of a general measurement for all of those factors?

@@knobjob2839 It's a very specific value that has dynamic variability based on velocity and spin stability. BC generally increases with speed and rotational speed (RPMs).

Thank you, I appreciate the information

I use Maximum Point Blank Range for finding my 100-yard zero. Identify your target's vital zone diameter. For deer this is at least an 8" circle. Then adjust your sights so that the bullet never rises more than 4 inches from point-of-aim, the top of your 8" circle. When it falls below that 8" circle, you have reached the MPBR for that load/bullet. With most modern, bottleneck cartridges in the 2,700 to 3,300 fps MV range, this ends up being about 250 to 350 yards. A ballistic calculator will give you this data. Generally you zero 2.5 to 3" high at 100 yards. Test this extensively on the range at various distances to confirm.

Christiansen Arms now has a great selection of 6.8 Western rifles.

The 7mm gonna win

6.8 has already stalled IMO. Horandy just seems to have the new cartridge magic these days.

The .30 cal has 18% more initial diameter. But if the 7mm has more velocity upon impact, it is going to expand to a larger diameter, and do so more violently than a .30 cal bullet of the same construction moving slower. Velocity is the most important factor in bullet performance and bullet performance, aside from shot placement, is the most important factor in terminal performance. Additionally, a 180 gr 7mm slug will have a higher sectional density than a 180 gr .30 cal slug, so all else being equal, it will penetrate better. The reality of the matter is that no elk could ever tell the difference between a 7mm Rem Mag (or PRC) and a .300 Win if both are given similar projectiles and shot placement. The primary difference is that the .300 Win has about 1/3 more recoil in the same weight of rifle, because the 7mm achieves similar downrange performance through aerodynamic efficiency, the BC of its bullets, whereas the .300 shoots similar weight bullets with lower BCs 200 fps or so faster. The 7mm's lower recoil and flatter trajectory also make shot placement easier, too.

@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 I totally agree that a 7mm bullet needs to move faster than a 30 caliber bullet of the same weight in order to cause the same amount of damage. The problem comes at longer range where the 7mm is not able to expand violently. Out where the energy numbers are dropping off. At those distances the 30 cal will be more efficient at causing tissue damage due to it's larger frontal area. You say "the reality of the matter is that no elk could ever tell the difference" but that is not true. Ask a guy like Jeff Brozovich who takes dozens of elk every year at long range on his ranch. He quit using 7mms because the elk absolutely could tell the difference, and he was losing too many animals with the smaller caliber. He prefers 338s for elk, but since a lot of his clients can't handle the recoil, most of the elk are taken with a 300 Win Mag. This is exactly the same experience I've had with elk, though I've only taken a few. When hit with a 7mm or smaller they tend to run quite a ways, but when you smack them with a 338 it's game over. Inside 400 yards, where the vast majority of game is taken, you have plenty of velocity to get those skinny bullets to expand so it's less of an issue.

@@10-4CodyWade The higher BC of the 7mm bullet means that if the 7mm doesn't have enough velocity to expand, neither does the .30. And with the minimum velocity threshold for expansion that most hunting bullets have, this means both of them are below the velocity for crush cavitation and energy is largely irrelevant. I didn't eat much beef growing up. It was mostly venison. Every man I knew hunted. The .30-06 was considered almost excessively powerful. My best friend was the youngest of 6 children, including four boys, all of whom hunted with their father, none of whom used anything larger than a .270 Win or a .25-06. They bought Core-Lokts or PowerPoints from the local handware store and always bagged multiple elk. Even when my family didn't have alot of success, there was always wheel barrels of vension outside the church from families that had filled their freezers and had leftovers. It was a big deal when I brought home a 7mm Rem Mag. My dad and grandpa just shook their heads. Why? The .30-06 and .270 Win had been bagging everything that walked or crawled in MT for so long...then my brother tried to one up me with a .300 Win. For the next decade or so, sibling rivarly put the two magnums against each other. Deer, elk, antelope, and bear. We tried to find bullets to give us a definitive edge over each other, we liked 175 and 200 gr Partitions, respectively, until my brother found the 180 gr Swift Scirroco and I found the 160 gr Accubond. In the end, nothing ever noticed a difference. Deer, elk, and black bear stumbled and fell over. No one ever told the elk about frontal diameter or energy, and so they never knew they were supposed to stagger and fall faster with the .300. I remain convinced through considerable personal experience that if 7mm doesn't cut it, .30 isn't a big enough step to make a difference. Once you've seen a 175 gr Nosler penetrate south to north on a bull elk, you wonder what would compel a person deal with 30% more recoil to get 18% more frontal diameter. Only time I'd go bigger than 7mm is on stuff that bites back , and I'd go straight to .338 or even .375.

@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 Glad to hear you've had a lot of success through the years. Nobody is disputing the efficacy of the 30-06, .270, or 7 Mag at average hunting distances. They perform well, as evidenced by your experience and mine. My original comment is pertaining to longer range, where an 18% difference in performance is very significant. It is a fact that a larger diameter bullet will be more efficient in transferring it's energy upon impact. Differences in recoil, bullet construction, rifle weight, etc. cannot change that fact. 30 caliber bullets ARE more effective at long range kills than 7mm bullets with all else being equal. Of course there are other factors to consider when choosing a cartridge for hunting, but none of those factors will change the previously stated fact. Recoil does not bother me when hunting, so the extra kick from a .300 or .338 is not a consideration for me when choosing what to hunt with. If you are recoil sensitive then obviously that's going to influence your choice of cartridge. I agree that a well-placed shot is more important than a few more horsepower. But a well-placed shot with a larger bullet will always put the animal down more quickly, and that difference could mean coming home with some venison instead of a long tracking job and/or losing a wounded animal.

@@10-4CodyWade The reason this is average hunting distance is because limitations in average bullet technology limit the ethical taking of game to average hunting distances. Shooting game beyond these distances requires specialized gear and development of a skill set most are unwilling to obtain. Transferring energy to a target is more a matter of finished, expanded, diameter than initial, unexpanded, diameter. A smaller caliber bullet thst retains enough velocity to expand will be more effective at transferring energy to that target, and using that energy to contribute to tissue damage, than a larger caliber bullet that doesn't expand. Bullets expansion is a matter of velocity and bullet construction, so given two bullets of equal construction, the bullet impacting at a higher velocity will expand more and be more effecient in transferring its energy to the target. Bullets have a minimum velocity threshold for expansion, which most loading manuals will provide from the manufacture. Typically, a dedicated big game bullet is going to require 1800 to 2000 fps to expand. Additionally, terminal ballistics is a complex and fascinating subject full of nuances, but it has been observed that projectiles impacting under 2200 fps rarely show enough cavitation damage to contribute significantly to the wounding effect of the bullet, so if we want to be able to use energy as effectively as a high velocity rifle round, we need to maintain this minimum velocity threshold as well. Therefore, it is the velocity of a bullet which dictates how effectively it is going to transfer energy into a target and how well it is going to use this energy to damage tissue, more than any other factor, including unexpanded frontal area. And it is ballistic coefficient that determines how well a bullet it going to retain velocity. Typical hunting weight 7mm bullets have higher BCs than their .30 caliber counterparts, which means they carry enough velocity to cause cavitation damage and expand further downrange than most .30 caliber projectiles. A 7mm bullet which expands to .35 caliber will transfer more energy and do more damage than a .30 caliber bullet which expands to .35 caliber. Beyond the range bullets can expand and cause cavitation damage, that is, that range they retain 2000 or so fps, a.k.a "typical hunting distances," bullets behave more like non-expanding small caliber pistol rounds, and it isn't really ethical to be shooting game with these bullets at these ranges. And no, .0446 sq in of frontal area does not make it any more ethical.