@@michaelbrocaglia3827 I certainly would not describe it as that. Obi-Wan never disliked R4; I always thought that Obi-Wan treated R4 very well. It's just that Obi-Wan never really had an attachment to droids. He viewed them as machines, evidenced by the line "Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there". It's a unique trait among the gearhead Skywalkers that they form such a bond with their droids.
I always assumed Leia was talking about Senator Organa's wife, her adopted mother. Because at that time, she still thought she was her biological mother.
Then shouldn’t she say “what do you mean by real?” I’m not adopted (as far as I’m concerned) and if someone said “your real mother” to me I would be confused. Also according to the supplementary material (Both Legends and Disney) say her adopted mom died in the destruction of Alderaan, and Leia says the mom she remembered “died when she was very young”.
It was obvious from the way the seen played out in the original that they where talking about there real mother. That's the point of this video. You changed your conclusion once the prequels came out to fit the plot hole.
@@Guy-cb1oh No the prequels created the plot hole. The original story never said when there mother died. It's assumed during that conversation that there talking about there real mother. It wasn't till the prequels that we saw the mother die at birth. There for no one would be questioning this memory of her mother if the prequels where never made.
“Military technology always gets better” and Star Wars didn’t do that...*shows clip of Death Star blowing up a planet* seems like tech development to me
At least research some real history before you talking stupid things. Remember when in the WW2 the US military became worst in the end of the war than it was in the start of the war except of the nuke! Is this how it happened?
Unfortunately that is one plot hole that you primarily have to go to the expanded material to get filled. Really the only example I can think of in the films of something that seems to advance technologically (Other than the Death Star [which while conceived of during the Prequel Era took years to build and was the most technologically advanced piece of engineering in the galaxy when it was completed]) are starfighters' hyperdrives. In the OT all fighters aside from TIEs have built-in hyperdrives. In the prequels we see a major example of a fighter that does not in the Jedi Order's starfighters that had to use those hyperdrive rings. Other fighters that don't seem to have a hyperdrive are: most Droid fighters, V-Wings (given their similarity to TIEs) LAAT gunships, and possibly ARC-170s (I know we don't see them enter hyperspace in RotS but I can't remember for sure about TCW).
Colby Geslison To be fair, most of the prequels were set in the core worlds, while the Original Trilogy was set mostly in the outer rim, also The Clone Wars could’ve affected the technology.
@@aributera4905 Exactly a good example of that in real world would be East Germany after WW2 and how long it took them to rebuild and catch up. They didn't till the 80's
@@aaronscott4984 This excuse works for the rebels, but certainly not for the empire. It would mean that a star fleet belonging to a massive superpower, commanded by the right-hand man of the emperor, made do with tech from *two* generations ago to crush a rebellion. Sorry I just can't see that.
5 лет назад
Prequels: You need to train for decades and being strong in the force helps. Sequels: 5 months or 5 days If the force is strong. Disney Sequels: Anyone who touches a light saber is ready!!
Well... The reason why the jedi only trained children was in part to brainwash them into the jedi order, the sith on contrary only take on adults to train. And apparently sith training takes less time than jedi training. So That's why in episode 1 they didn't want to take anakin, because he was too old to be properly brainwashed.
He also knew the dark side force use to gain immortality. Perhaps he knew his days were numbered and was looking for his replacement since he knew his spirit would continue on...
I always thought Palpatine planned to bring Luke over to the dark side by sacrificing himself to Luke. Palpatine tells Luke to strike him down and his journey to the dark side will be complete.
@@edwardegan2304 so you're assuming time works the same on a planet with two suns. Obi wan was in his thirties during ROTS. Assuming ANH happened 20 years later, the ages match up
Vader was going easy on luke, that’s why luke could “hold his own” Vader couldn’t defend against Luke’s anger in rotj but Vader never had it in himself to kill the only family he had left, a child that was born from a girl he always loved
I always thought it was because luke had a stronger connection to the force because he is the chosen ones son. While vader was the chosen one when he became more machine than man and lost a lot of midochlorians because of it thus he had a weaker connection too the force. I also think it has do due to the fact luke has a stronger connection to the dark side than vader. Vader has gotten used to the dark side and has nothing to live for so he doesn't have as much anger luke on the other hand has a sister, rebellion and a future he wants to protect so his anger would be stronger than vader and allowing the dark side to boost Luke far more than vader.
Vader was totally playing around with Luke- watch Empire, Vader is beating him holding his Lightsaber IN ONE HAND- in Return of the Jedi, Luke has way more skill, Vader starts cocky, gets pushed to an equal duel, then Palpatine pushes Luke to tap into his Dark Side, where he goes Berserk on Vader- Luke doesn't even mean to chop off Vader's hand- he's just hacking away and Vader's grip slips- Pop goes the hand- Looking at his own hand, and remembering his vision on Dagobah, Luke realizes he almost fell to the Dark Side and refuses to fight any more
The one that stands out worst to me: Obi-Wan: You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from Yoda, THE JEDI MASTER WHO INSTRUCTED ME. Qui-Gon: Wow. Ok.
Yeah...but "You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from a short, green elf-looking but not really an elf, alien troll. He was a Jedi Master and sat on the Jedi Counsel, so he is good. Just a bit hard to understand at times, but roll with it anyway. Trust me." wouldn't have sounded too good coming from a force ghost.
And Vader openly talked to Luke about killing the emperor and ruling as father and son, anyway. So yeah, pretty much exactly as Peter said, they both planned to stick to the rule of 2 but they were both planning on replacing the other. But the thing is, that's ALWAYS how Sith have worked, there's always two but they're always trying to find better replacements because they're evil power-hungry sons of bitches, so it isn't a plot hole anyway.
The reason they want the jedi to begin training at such a young as wasn’t because of how long it takes to train but rather because the jedi want them to have as few attachments as possible
So now they have a huge attachment to their masters... or the kids of the same class... or do friends not count as "attachments"? Those Jedi rules are the stupidest idea ever and just make the Jedi look extremely dumb and bad. Like, instead of helping each other when something bad happens they just are like: no nothing bad happens because you have nothing good to begin with, problem solved
@@juan95194 I think attachment to their Master, Other Students, and the Jedi way is the ONLY attachment that they did want. They wanted new Jedi's to put the order above everything else, even their own lives.
The big W Yes I am aware 😂. But it’s four years off. Which is not that much. Especially when you make a movie 20 years later and try to match it up. A person is probably gonna look pretty similar at age 54 as they would at age 57.
The big W They were also trying to act like the plot hole was that as Ewan Mcgregor as Obi-Wan he was 20 years younger than he actually should be but it’s not that. It’s only four years
Nope - watch the prequels again. The Death Star began as a Geonosian design. The first Death Star's schematics are visible in the scenes on Geonosis in Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones showcasing the early development of the Death Star prototype, the Death Star plans were designed by Geonosians led by Archduke Poggle the Lesser, a member of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and is shown early in construction at the end of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith.
@@jacksporran7468 Its not a Geonosian design Sidious was planning it since then and they were talking about his plan. The Geonosians were not smart nor advanced enough to make the death star. The geonosians had nothing to do with it the CIS befriended the leader of them so they could hide a droid factory on Geonosis. All the technology is from the CIS
I don't think for many fans, those who grew up with the Original Trilogy, dislike this so much is because it wasn't always Hayden Christensen, and so it just didn't need to be changed. Of course those who grew up with the prequels think this is fine because that's the Anakin they grew up knowing, but if you now went back and changed parts of the sequels to have characters that were in some yet unwritten movie to that, or inserted other unnecessary CGI scenes just because technology has moved on, then I think these fans would get pissed off with someone tampering with the movies they grew up loving. I think the other problem those that don't like the prequels, they're bearable, but not in any way classics, is that Hayden Christensen was such a bad actor, or at least given such a bad script that reminding us that this was him at a younger age. I don't buy that he was that way as a force ghost because it was before he turned to the dark side, that to me makes no sense. He was redeemed before his death and turned back towards the light at the end of Return of the Jedi and at that point would have become a force ghost, otherwise he'd have had to made the decision before he turned and that's not going to happen. Anyway that's mute, it was done on a whim to make the movie appear more attractive and tie the Original Trilogy to the Prequels, nothing more, nothing less, nothing to do with lore or anything else. It was done on a whim by Lucas.
But clearly Anakin wouldn’t imagine himself as the same person who killed kids. Also how is Luke supposed to know who it is? Some people can’t just get over the fact that it is undeniably a dumb change.
“It seems in your anger, you killed her” Vader thought the baby died with Padme. Hiding him on Tattooine was fine, without the link of the Skywalker name (as he thought the kid was dead) there would be no reason for him to look for Obi-Wan there. Plus the Hutts were in charge there even when the Empire was at large. so information wouldn’t be as easy to get from there as it would from the core worlds. So it wasn’t that bad of a place to hide.
@@BenDBeast this dude constantly is trying his hardest to make Rey not be an absolute monster of a plot hole. That whole training thing was his attempt to offset how she so unrealisticly learned how to use a lightsaber and force powers.
I like them, but between the different trilogies there are way to many holes, like why can Rey transfer vitality to safe the wierd snake and Kylo Ren, but Yoda and Obi Wan just thought well it doesn’t matter whether Padme lives or not. Same goes for Darth Vader and Luke in Episode 6 and Qui Gon and Obi Wan in Episode 1
I just went to comment that exact thing in a less polite way. There is so many holes in this video ironically about plot holes over the course of 6 films.
Alec L. Exactly! Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Vader. Also Anakin probably never heard of t he rule of two. Remember that in Episode 3, Anakin thinks that the Jedi are hiding things from him. Also Darth Sidious never mentioned the rule of two, only Yoda and Mace Windu did.
Alec L. Yeah, Even if you were just a casual fan who watched the original trilogy you would have picked that up, this guy seems to just be trying to find ways to hate on the prequels which realistically weren’t that bad, I’d kill for a prequel like production over this new Disney shit
Zeke Robinett the rule of two and what you stated are two completely different things. The rule of two is a sith rule established by Darth Bane that there must be two sith, a master and an apprentice. Doesn’t apply to the Jedi whatsoever so Anakin even with that, still wouldn’t have known what the hell it is. What the original commenter said is correct though
To be honest palatine, at least in the movies, never states he follows the rule of two. Only yoda and windu mention it, even in the movies there's palpatine, dooku and grievous. Maybe grievous doesn't count because of the lack of the force but still
I disagree with number 1 of "rule of two". I remember way back when Phantom Menace first came out and my friends and I discussed that rule of two. Darth Vader and Palpatine would not kill each other, they each wanted Luke to kill the other and then take Luke on as an apprentice. Darth Vader told Luke that Palpatine had foreseen his own distruction through Luke. Vader is glad about this because it will mean the end of Palpatine, a master that he hates but also he can't kill. If Vader wanted to kill Palpatine, he had so many opportunities in the past, and never took them. Darth Vader can't kill Palpatine because it's his own master. Palpatine won't kill Vader, because he needs Luke to kill his own father in order to seal him up on the Dark Side. So, each one of them want Luke to off the other. Ain't Sith great?!
Needed to read the comments before I blathered my opinion. I think you covered my every point I was about to make. Although the books aren't considered canon, there are several people Palpatine would have liked to recruit to sort of usurp Vader. Even Prince Xizor was being groomed in the background, not to mention, Palpatine had the Mara Jade card up his sleeve. It was only the holographic communique in ESB where Vader tempts Palpatine with the Son of Skywalker. You can almost hear the gears turning when Palpatine approves of Vader's choice not to destroy Luke, but to lure him. Vader has one thing in mind, but unbeknownst to him, Palpatine has something different altogether. Sorry so late a rejoinder to your original comment!
This Dude Is Out Of His Damn Mind & Needs To Move On With His Bullshit. We ALLLL Know Why 4-6 Were Altogether A Step Up, Were Gorge & The Crew Supposed To Keep The 1970’s Look Of Space & If So They Did A Good Job Of That. When We Were Flying Around Space In Pop Cans With The Computing Power Of A iPhone 1 In Real Life. They Had To Spice It Up To Compete With WHAT THEY STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Can’t Really Hate On That. Now The Last 3.........🚮The Mandalorian.📘🔥🎥💣🔐
Well you see, Vader didn't really plan for Luke to go all berserk on him, and he was still conflicted emotionally. Anakin was starting to take over, while Vader was dying. Anakin could never kill his own son. You should read up on some of the lore, the movies dosen't really explain a whole lot.
7 лет назад
Kenny Spillman did you see him in Rogue One? That's very small compared to what he did to most other people
@33dbz... me too, ROTS is pretty fucking great. About the Sequels, I don’t love em, I don’t hate em. But at the end of the day it’s still Star Wars and acceptable I guess... 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
how many regular newb jedi got 1on1 training with yoda? then the "potentially most powerful jedi ever" gets one of the greatest jedi masters ever to tutor him almost non stop for however long. of course hes going to improve greatly very fast. I dont think the Jedi used to prefer to start training Younglings at such a young age because the basic fighting training takes a long time, mostly its because they dont have too many preconceived or ingrained notions of how the universe works at that age so can be easily taught Jedi doctrine.
Brandon Kelly Its not, you need to read one of the book about the movie since the O.T. was created before the prequels obviously so that was explained later in a book so make both trilogies connections smoother
Brandon Kelly Well not reading the book doesn’t affect your understanding of the movies all that much it just eases the connection between the O.T. And the *PREQUELS* ya see how they’re called *PREQUELS* meaning they’re movies made after but set at a time before their correlating movies, prequels made 30 years after the O.T. that wasn’t meant to be a trilogy in the first place, with a situation like that you kinda need extra media’s so explain and help smoothen the flow between them so what can you do??? I never read any of the books and I get the movies, just heard about obi wan saying that from a you tuber and it don’t really affect me just something to say “huh” about
Brock Mulhearn if books were considered than almost none of the points made would be valid. They only say that so that they can put out a video and net views. If books were considered, which they should be then this video wouldn’t exist making their points null they’re changing the rules of canon to make a video that doesn’t need to be made
AngryGoats555 Darth Vader has every reason to be afraid of sand. Anakin may have hated it, but Vader should fear it. I mean think about it, could you imagine how much sand blowing around in a sand storm would really mess with Darth Vader's breathing apparatus? LOL In fact anyone who knows that they are about to come face-to-face with Darth Vader, or is worried about the possibility of an encounter with Darth Vader, should just carry around a pocket full of sand and when Darth Vader comes at you blammo sand in the face! Choking and hacking commence, problem solved. Giving them time to get away.
About the first one notice how all the small ships had to have an Attachable hyperdrive system, but not in the original trilogy, possibly meaning that technology improved
Most of these do not matter to the plot, so there is little need to defend them in the first place, but the sequels actively tear apart the originals and themselves
So, i just watched the original movies yesterday and the rule of 2 wasnt going to be broken. Palpatine intend for luke to try to strike him down and knew that vadar was going to stop that from happening. Its was the emperor's plan all along to have luke strike down his father in hate and take vaders spot as his apprentice. Thats why he tried to kill him when he refused.
The reason they said little Ani was, "too old, " was because he had emotional attachments which could lead to the dark side. Kenobi hid on tatooine because, "I don't like sand."
The reason Obiwan hid in plain sight on Tattooine is quite understandable purely based on the movies. As you mentioned, Kenobi and Yoda wanted Luke and Leia to be hidden from Vader and Sidious (note, Kenobi and Yoda didn't care about basic stormtroopers). As Sidious would hardly ever go into the field himself, it was up to Vader to do the fieldwork. Now what is the last planet Vader (Anakin) would visit in the Galaxy? Tattooine of course, he hated that place. And sand.
Idk it still seems sketchy because if he had a death star the first place I would think he would blow up is the place he hates.. for science of course. ;)
Well, Vader never had a Death Star. (And even if he would get one, it would have been highly unlikely, Kenobi would predict that. Furthermore: Would you destroy your beloved mothers grave without any need?)
Alresu true Vader may not have owned one so there is that but as far as his mother's burial site sith don't hold their parents in high regard being dark and all
Alresu which would be true if he was only corrupt. He was sith which is why he was willing to kill his own son and daughter if luke hadn't changed his mind later on after defeating him mind you
Ya and when he finally bested him in combat Vader still really didnt want to win. He wanted to give in to Luke's beliefs that there was good left in him. He loved his son as much as he loved padre or more
GrandAdmiral Zod and that's why it makes no sense. Luke wouldn't turn on kilo bc he saw a vision. what a load of shit. even mark hamil says. Luke in the new star wars isn't the same Character as the luke from the trilogy.
I think it's funny that he mentions in the beginning not to mention the books to fix his holes. But yet his holes have holes that are already filled by the logic of running the movie narrative.
Doesn’t change the fact that the prequels ruined the Star Wars franchise. The sequels didn’t do much to help it, but they’re definitely better overall.
11:05 Didn't Emperor Palpatine actually laugh when Vader and Luke started their final fight in Return of the Jedi? Doesn't that imply that he wanted that to happen? And isn't it the same as how he instructed Anakin to kill Dooku in the beginning of Revenge of the Sith? Even more, didn't he directly tell Luke to kill his father at the end of that battle? If the answer to all of those questions is yes, then it seems your point about the "Rule of 2" is invalid.
Yes exactly. The rule of two stands. Vader knows he will be killed and replaced or will kill his son (obviously in the end he kills palpatine) and palpatine knows Luke will replace Vader should he kill his father. Palpatine immediately tried to kill Luke when he wouldnt kill vader so palpatine was prepared to play it both ways but didnt realise vader would jump in. It's not a pothole
“Now fulfill your destiny, take you’re father’s place at my side.” Palpatine Vader: “Together we can rule the Galaxy like father and son.” He can’t rule if he remains to be the pet of the Emperor. There is selfish motives from both because they know that whoever enters the fray with much power either can be destroyed.
Anakin Skywalker I always understood it as a force ghost cannot age. I assumed a Jedi stays the age they were when they learned how to be a force ghost. So if anakin learned to project himself beyond death around R.o.t.S, then he would look like that
Close. Vader actually hates everything about anakin and sees him as a completely different person. So anything reminding him of anakin pisses him off so much. Especially the planet he was a slave on and watched his mother die on while he couldn't do anything
Most of these so-called plot holes can be easily explained by what is shown in the movies alone. Kind of disappointing that they would make this video and not bother to think any of them through.
1 makes perfect sense. Vader and Palpatine knew that one of them would have to die to recruit Luke, but both needed the other's help to get him on side. Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Vader and turn to the dark side. Vader wanted him and Luke overthrow the Emperor and 'rule the galaxy as father and son'.
That's the point of the rule of two, they're suppoesed to hate each other because that makes them stronger in the dark side to the point where they were strong enough to defeat the Jedi.
Your explanation We know (before the prequels) from EU that the Emperor had other apprentices, he doesn't respect the rule of two. I know this sort of breaks the 'don't bring EU into this' rule, but in the case it isn't retconning anything. There's also the possibility that the emperor was training prequel apprentices simultaneously - he was certainly grooming Anakin whilst Dooku was still his apprentice. Dooku's death is also an allusion to the Luke/Vader scene in ROTJ, which in turn backs up your original point.
@@jbstarkiller4626 If you know anything about history you know that after the fall of The Roman empire the world went backwards in a couple of hundred years before stabilizing
@@jbstarkiller4626 e.g Concrete wasn't created until over 1000 years after Rome fell. Technology fell backwards after the Roman empire collapsed its a fact.
Adam Bernal yeah but that is just one thing and also in attack of the clones dooku says that they are building a super weapon which means the death star is in progress so they actually could have had the deathstar in the prequels
@@diadokhoi5722 The Sith desire more and more power and control, they're never happy with what they got. The Death Star gives them absolute control through fear. It doesn't have much of a practical use, because by completely obliterating a planet, you loose all the resources from it. But as some sort of a statement and a reminder whose in charge, it's pretty good.
I think it makes more sense when you consider the prequel era. If the point of the old one is to be if Anakin hadn’t turned (the reason he aged badly being that he needed to use the dark side to keep himself alive due to his injuries) then he should not be looking like an old man because Anakin was only 45 when he died. It makes more sense to have him be younger because literally everyone that has known Anakin, would think of the young one. This extends to Anakin himself. When he was Vader, every time he looked back on his past or “Anakin”, it was his younger self. Only Luke saw Anakin as that old man but Luke isn’t that stupid to not figure out that the young man is his father.
@Anakin Skywalker Read my comment, it doesn’t make much sense when you consider the prequels. It made sense in the originals but it doesn’t make the much sense anymore after the prequels came out.
Theory! Kenobi aged so fast because of all the the drugs and deathsticks he's been taking and he lost his memory about r2 and how Darth is Luke's father. There simple explanation for two plotholes, and maybe more
That does make sense. What the fuck else is there to do on a fucking desert planet?? Alchohol and death sticks, that's what. (actually I'm sure Mos Eisly had some smuggled Romulan Ale and Synthohol readily available as well. THat shit will fuck you up for life!)
obiwan never forgot about vader being lukes father he just didn't want to disapoint the boy plus would you rather hear your father turned evil and practiclly destroyed the peace of the galaxy if you were in lukes position? just random question is all
Yoda literally says that Luke is too old for training! also at that point they had no option but to train him whether he was old for actual jedi training or not so not really a plot hole.
I'm currently rewatching Avatar the Last Airbender, so that's fresh on my mind, but it's the exact same situation. In Avatar, Aang has less than a year to master all 4 elements (something that normally takes a lifetime), or else all will be lost. Similarly, Luke is able become a Jedi because he _has_ to, & even then, he's actually only able to beat Vader by using the dark side, & stands no chance against Palpatine, himself.
Yes Yoda does not beleive Luke is ready, but like prodigies in life that can achieve faster results than people that train for years, Luke is favoured i think.
8. The galaxy became more poor after the empire rose. Also most of the technology you mentioned was just bad special effects. 7. This isn't clearly explained but Luke was actually training for 6 months to a year and 6 months. Also Return of the Jedi is set 3 years after Empire Strikes Back. 6. Obi Wan aged so quickly because first of all he was in his 40s in ROTS and ANH is set 19 years after ROTS and secondly he was depressed, sleep deprived and had ptsd. 5. Because it's hard for people to find people in a desert planet and Vader hated Tatooine so Obi Wan knew Vader would never go there. 4. Tbh idk this one but I think it's because you can choose what form of yourself you want to be when you're a force ghost. 3. She was force sensitive which means she could remember that. And Bail probably showed Leia pictures and videos of Padmé. 2. He did, he just didn't want to tell Luke that. It would probably lead Luke into asking who his father was. 1. Palpatine wanted to bring Luke to the darkside by making Luke kill his own father. And Vader thought Luke would help him kill Palpatine. (Note: Yes I did watch the intro)
@@irishspudlad From Return of the Jedi From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Plot A year after Han Solo's capture,[a] C-3PO and R2-D2 are sent to crime lord Jabba the Hutt's palace on Tatooine in a trade bargain made by Luke Skywalker to rescue Han.
Jessic is correct. You probably just got the movies mixed up a bit. Between ANH and ESB is 3 years and between ESB and RTJ is 1 year. Or like 6 months or something but its a new year 3ABY to 4ABY
Aquatic Falcon he kinda does, he's supposed to be 19 but he looks around 23. Also, he hasn't been on tatooine for as long as ben. That's also why aunt beru and uncle Owen age rapodly
@@omegaink5635 Changing how hyper space works, how lightsabers work, how the force works, how gravity in space works, how logic works...shall i continue?
@@hessianproductions5051 yes please, but before you go more in depth I just one say something. What you just mentioned has nothing to do with how bad the plot holes were in the prequels. Such as Obi wan saying Yoda was his master (prequels: Qui Gon Jin), & Leia saying she remembers her mother (even though she dies, when Leia was born). This is detrimental to the lore of Star Wars, not petty things that don't matter in hindsight. I'm sorry for the long response, please continue!
@@omegaink5635 I was just pointing out the plot holes in the Sequels, cus what I gathered from your comment was that you were asking the person what plot holes were in the Sequels, and I delivered. Has nothing to do with prequels.
@@hessianproductions5051 The prequels had everything to do with his or her's comment. It was apart of the hold my beer meme. The prequels were always apart of the disscousion.
Obi-Wan aging faster on tattooine would scientifically make sense as there are 2 suns in the tattooine system which would give of double the ammount of radiation which would make his skin look more aged.
Stress is also a huge factor and remember Obi Wan was around 20 when he met Anakin. 14 or so years pass until the rise of the empire then 18 more years until Luke meets Obi Wan officially. Ive seen older looking 40 year olds let alone 50+
well actually time is based on Coruscantian time and Coruscant has a very similar rotational and revolutionary pattern as here on Earth so one year on Coruscant is basically a year on Earth too. Also, in legends it was described all humans were based in Coruscant as their home planet and them all being the same species, but that is still not canon.
Luke's training was fine. He trained a bit in episode 4, presumable between 4 and 5, trained in 5, and then trained for over a year before he really fought Vader. And the issue with training Anakin as he was 'too old' isn't a reference to how long it takes to train someone, but that they need to be properly indoctrinated into Jedi ideology and lifestyle. They weren't afraid that it'd take too long, it's that he was in danger of turning to the dark side one day.
@@zacharytomes5202 Vader could fight fine, he was just restrained and clouded by emotions just like episode 3, because he was fighting his own son and saw the same perspective that Ob1 had during that fight, that's why Vader "lost".
But the issue with the length of time training is what OT fanboys always bring up about Rey. Thing is Luke had very little training and Anakin had zero training but could pilot a podracer and then just a few days later pilot a ship in battle against the Trade Federation. Can't complain about Rey's training and not do the same about Luke's and Anakin's training without being a hypocrite
"We wanted to make sure Vader's kids were hidden, so we gave one of them to his half-brother and the other one to the Senator leading the rebellion." Sounds like a great plan.
He clearly does, look at him after he gets zapped in RoTJ, he has loads of stuff there he later (earlier) uses in the prequels, I guess those devices were only useful for the stuff that happens in the Prequels.
I don't know if you ever watched the Clone Wars so, but they really give you a sense that people don't care about the droids. They are just objects. Not to mention all the protocol droids out there. They easily could have thought it was another one and didn't care whether it was the one they built or not.
Yeah but the thing is that one should not have to read another book in order to fill a plothole. I go with what I see in the films, as far as I´m concerned of a plothole is not explained within the movie is still a plothole.
B 1 where’s a better place? Considering tat is hated by Vader, where he buried his mother, was a slave, hates the environment, clearly stated it’s not in the republics control so likely not in empire control later and if we’re failing it for hiding in plain site let’s fail the ot for hiding in/on the garbage ya know plain site
Plus tatooine is the Planet where his mother died and where he spent his childhood as a slave. Last time Anakin was there, he was with padme and he slaughtered an entire village. I don’t think Vader would like to go to tatooine
Prequel apologists are so dumb. Think about it like this. If a terrorist was destroying cities all over the world, would you hide his son in his home town even if the terrorist was abused there as a child. No you would hide him in a random place he wouldn’t think to even go. The truth is Lucas probably didn’t know anakin would grow up on tattooine. He didn’t know Vader was Luke’s father until empire strikes back, and by then Luke had already lived there.
The reason the Jedi were usually trained very young was because they would have emotions that might hinder their abilities and they’d have abandonment issues
The last one where "3's a crowd" isn't a plot hole since in Return of the Jedi the emperor wanted Luke to "kill his father and take his place at his side"... its literally a line in the movie.
But then why was vader complying when he showed no indication of wanting to kill the emperor but also wanted to recruit luke so that he didnt have to kill him? Rule of two means Vader knew either he or his son would have to die and he obviously wanted neither
@PattySpivotDoe There's a new force in the galaxy that both Palpatine and Vader can sense. They understand that there's a great force rising in the Jedi and the question is what to do about it. There are options so I'll lay them out. 1) Both Vader and Palpatine team up to fight this force. There's a risk that one of them will die in the battle. 2) Palpatine could decide his own fate by having Vader defeat Luke or Luke defeat Vader (only by diving into the dark side power) so that he can have an apprentice either way and remove the problem. 3) Vader can entice Luke to his side and then together they can defeat Palpatine from the dark side of the force. Vader will then be the master and Luke will be the apprentice. That way, he ensures that both he and Luke survive. The point is both Palpatine or Vader like to be control of situations. Palpatine more so as that's how his mind works. They want to be in control of every move and option 2 gives that control to Palpatine and option 3 gives that control to Vader. Option 1 is far too risky for both of them. If I were Palpatine, I'd have both Vader and Luke fight it out and then claim the inner as the apprentice. If you're Vader, killing Palpatine before turning Luke to the Dark Side is incredibly risky. Instead of having two of you against this great force, you essentially handicap your side. Vader has no idea if Luke will even turn. Vader needs to wait it out until he knows that Luke is on his side and then they can turn on Palpatine. There's so much politics and backstabbing going on that one can easily be confused but it does make sense for Vader to deal with the threat first.
Also in ESB Vader tells Luke that "together we will rule the galaxy as father and son", a clear indication in the movies of Vader's intentions with Luke. Not a plot hole, both Vader and Palpatine believe they are the stronger sith and want Luke as their apprentice. Palpatine as the master believes he can exploit Vader's status as the apprentice to entice Luke to where he wants him, and Vader plays along, waiting for his opportunity to flip the script and become the master himself.
@PattySpivotDoe Vader literally wanted his Son to join him and not palpatine. Maybe he was intent to get his son to join himself and not palpatine. (You know the whole Imperium strikes back-thing with "No, I am your father!". The actual plot hole for me would be vader defending palpatine when luke actually tries to kill him in the return of the jedi. If i recall correctly he blocks the lightsaber that luke swings at the emperor. But maybe vader knew at that point that Palpatine was still too strong for both of them.
And all the Masters and Apprentices already know Rule of Two is custom Part of being a Sith Lord is constantly being strong enough to work knowing the person standing next to you wants your power for theirs
The plot hole with the rule of two is not so much that recruiting Luke would go against it (as has been correctly stated, the Emperor wanted Luke to replace Vader if he could defeat him and Vader wanted Luke as an ally to defeat the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son - he openly says so when he tries to convince Luke in Episode 5 and I think he might have been sincere). The actual plot hole is that they both openly talk about drawing Luke to the Dark Side with each other and that Sidious entrusts Vader with the mission to corrupt Luke when they both are aware of the rule of two and must strongly suspect that the other one will obviously try to kill him as soon as Luke falls to the dark side and joins forces with one of the two, so one would expect that they would try to capture and corrupt Luke independantly from each other and without the other one knowing.
Not as much? OT is inconsistent even within itself. Episode 5 contradicts things in Episode 4, Episode 6 contradicts things in both 4 and 5. Teddy bears can beat "legion of best troops", genius sith, that manipulated the whole galaxy, couldnt predict, that Vader will kill him or rebels will win that fight, all Death Stars always have a weak point, rebels somehow always win, even with no chances, Vader (one of the most powerful siths ever and best pilot in the galaxy) gets defeated by Luke in lightsaber duel and gets beaten by Han in space battle, Death Star only has 10 T-fighters to protect itself, the fastest ship in the galaxy belongs to a poor smuggler for some reason, Obi-Wan decides to give up and die, instead of training Luke and helping the rebellion, etc. etc. If it wasnt for the prequels, people would still think, that Emperor is just an old loser, that can only shoot lightning, they would still think, that Vader is just a bad guy in black suit, they would think that both Obi-Wan and Yoda are just crazy hermits, and they wouldnt even know the difference between jedi and sith. Prequels actually explain the story and the universe, while OT is just a plushy fairytale with cliche story, where good guys always win.
Both the old and the new trilogy can allow themselves to have these plot holes. It´s f***ing Star Wars. As unfortunate as all these holes are, you can still enjoy all the movies. I don´t really get all these discussions. Sure, you can point them out, it´s interesting to watch, but at the end of the day it doesn´t matter.
Yep. The problems really began with Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia went from love triangle to brother and sister. Luke throwing his light sabre away after beating Vader. Back to Luke's long winded rant about Leia being his sister. Despite all the flaws, Jedi is a great film IMO. But that's where the f**k ups really began.
"Lukes training was far too quick" I agree but after watching a girl with 0 seconds of training defeat a fully trained Kylo Ren with ease in the force awakens and fight a shit tone of those red dudes in the last Jedi made lukes training seem more realistic.
Milk Man Rey lived in jakku as a scavanger all of her life, she had to learn self defense to survive and Kylo Was in shock for killing Han and he Was shot by Chewbacca with a Gun that can throw soldiers with armor to the air, and even then he destroyed Finn a few moments before fighting Rey, i think these are some points that People don't take into account. But still, yeah i can agree in some degree about Rey fighting The red guards in TLJ.
I'll have to disagree with the one about obi wan Kenobi. The aging process can be very interesting especially when one is in a high stress environment like living by yourself in the desert. Let's look at another high stress environment just to compare, look at Barack Obama. He has aged tremendously and that was only 8 years, if we had him in office for 19 I'm sure the results would look similar to the Kenobi transformation.
Yuvbook77 Ok? I feel like you think you're making a valid point when you really aren't. Not once did I say that he didn't like star wars, all I stated is that I disagree with one of his statements.
Also in the intro he says not to argue with " this thing is expleined in the novels...etc etc" and not to avoid criticizing things like "people dont age faster if they stay in the desert for 20 years under a massive a amount of stress like PTSD".
lucky dominguez So you're saying all 57 year olds look the same? All 70 year olds look the same? I can say that Obi Wan looks like he could be 57 in that movie, it doesn't matter what Guiness's age was.
That´s a lame excuse, biologically you´re right as not everyone looks the same at determinated ages BUT the direction and movie production in 77´try to make him look old, that´s called charachterization, the way you portray you´re charachter in a movie (or other literature forms), so what Lucas did at the end was pooped over the age he try to portray Obi in the first movie, obviously that shouldn´t be a concern for not enjoy Ewan McGregor work on the prequels, he was good.
Actually, without the prequels we wouldn't have information about the following things Vaders past Obi Wans past The collapse of the Galactic Republic The clone wars Vaders motive The end of the Jedi How Anakin lost his limbs Why Vader needs his suit Lukes mother How Vader knew Obi Wan
This is a list of things thatnobody really asked for and where done bad by the prequels anyway even though might be asked for by minoities: Vaders past Obi Wans past The collapse of the Galactic Republic The clone wars Vaders motive The end of the Jedi How Anakin lost his limbs Why Vader needs his suit Lukes mother How Vader knew Obi Wan
but luke was like 20 when he wanted to start training... Anakin was 10 years old.. how is that too old ffs? Are the suppodsed to enter the jedi order right when heir mother pops them out?
@@meganoob12 the theory goes that a child at anakin's age would have time to form attachments which is a big no no for the jedi. They usually take in humanoid children under the age of 4 before permanent memories occur so that they don't remember their old families
This was a terrible chapter in Bens life. After the Battle of Geonosis, Ben went back to the Outlander Club to find Elan Sleazebaggano. It was then and there his addiction to deathsticks started and earned him the the "crazy old man" reputation on Tatooine where he would often do deathsticks and wander the dessert dunes wearing only his boots. The toll of the deathsticks along with fully exposed skin aged Ben fast into OLD Ben.
The ATTE has worse plated armor than the ATAT, all you need to do is rewatch the battles of Hoth and Geonosis. The ATTEs were easily destroyed with one powerful blast from a turret, but the ATAT was destroyed only when Luke used the tow cable. The tow cable was only used because the blasts from the turrets did no damage. Before you tell me to rewatch the intro, I ONLY USED THE MOVIES
Smhop20 yeah the armor is better, but the AT-AT is less mobile and less versatile, but he makes a point with the center of gravity. While not a step backwards, it wasn't exactly a step forward either. The designers used a blantly flawed design and didn't do anything to fix it. Also, the empire's military was made to police populations, not wage full scale war.
Well. but in the battle of hoth the rebels didn't have missiles or any kind of heavy weapons. Only blaster turrets. Does blaster shots do something to an AT-TE?
As you said, the empire didn’t plan for a war. So I believe they made it that tall so that it looked intimidating. I mean come on, if you see that thing and how huge it is, it might make you think twice about fighting. That’s my opinion.
your first plot hole solution solves your second one: look whats actually in the movies. Prequel jedi are much more able in both lightsaber combat and force mastery than luke was in the OT, showing they have had much better training. Compare any lightsaber duel from the PT to the OT and youll get what I mean
Obi-Wan's first words to R2 were "Hello there, come here my little friend" While flying to Alderaan, Obi-Wan whispers to R2 something like "it's nice to fly with you again, old friend".
My little friend obviously doesn't mean he actually "knew" him. Let's also not mention that R2 was never given a memory wipe meaning "he" should remember Obi Wan. Also like he said it doesn't count if it was explained in a book later on.
@Brandon Kelly why would he have to? Up until this moment he didnt know his father was a pilot or a jedi. Luke's only father figure was his uncle and his uncle told him lies about his dad. Be weird to tell him right away this droid belonged to Vader before he changed...
In fairness, as far as the rule of two is concerned, the only ones who talked about it were the Jedi. Sidious never mentioned it, and he had apprentices stacked up like plates at a buffet table.
@@CodexVR124 it's not a plot hole you're just a dumbass, he said that to Maul when he was fighting him "remember, there can only be 2" Grievous and Assaj were tools just like Dooku so when Anakin would have turned to the dark side he would have to defeat Dooku, Grievous and Assaj all of them being a test for Anakin, unfortunately Anakin couldn't fight Grievous because the Jedi didn't let him to and Assaj retired, TCW explains everything you're just dumb
Additionally...it could be argued that the Jedi had become blind or at least confused about Sith at that point. In EP. I, there were no obvious Sith. Even in EP. II, I don't think that they ever referred to Dooku as a Sith Lord...though I could be wrong on that one.
I know this is going EU, but the rule of two was never violated. Vader was the only "SITH" apprentice Palpatine had. all the other darkside assassins he would have had were just that. assassins trained to use the darkside to murder people sneaky style. Asaj ventress is a good example from the clone wars era. she never has a "sith" name, so it doesn't actually count toward the rule of 2, though eventually Dooku is called out on potentially training Asaj as such prompting him to turn on her to prove his loyalty to Sidious. Besides this is the sith we're talking about, stupid evil to the hilt. You really think ANY sith would allow something like rules get in the way of them amassing personal power they could use to kick puppies, torture kittens, push old ladies down stairs, and eat babies?
I always figured he'd have no point of reference. The only saber users who were still around from the prequels were far beyond their prime, and giving Luke no proper instruction. Some even argue the heavy flailing was used to drain Vader's stamina and put him off balance. The Saber Combat in the OT was meant to be more reflective of Samurai movies rather than the acrobatic style we see in the PT. Either way, in my opinion, it looks better than the ST where it looks like 2 kids fighting each other with sticks they found in their yards.
The reason that the AT-AT is tall rather than functional like the AT-TE because the AT-TE was meant to fight a serious army to army conflict whereas the AT-AT was meant to inspire fear as part of the Tarkin Doctrine therefore tall and scary rather than short and stable.
That Vader and Palpatine both know the other is plotting to kill them with Luke really isn't a plothole. It's just another example of their twisted relationship.
Also the whole "rule of two" thing might be a great misunderstanding. Maybe it just states that no master time should have more than one apprentice at any given. That doesn't mean that the apprentice himself can't have an apprentice.
the last one has nothing to do with the prequels and is just generally stupid as you explain it yourself. Vadet couldn't defeat palpatine on his own but once he turned luke, he would obviously join his father and kill the emperor with him and vader would take the throne and luke as his apprentice, think.
Anakin's Ghost reverted back to the point where he "died" originally: When he became Darth Vader. That one should be pretty obvious. Kenobi and Yoda even said that he "ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader". So, in his redemption, he went back to the point where he "fell" from the Light Side. Leia remembered her mother: Breha Organa. That's the mother she knew. Luke was asking about their REAL mother, but Leia didn't know that. What you SHOULD have asked is: Why doesn't Leia remember her mother BETTER, because she died when Alderaan was destroyed, which was when Leia was a young adult (I'm assuming in her twenties), which means she should have more than just "feelings" about her. Keep in mind, YOU set the scene of "taking the movies in isolation", meaning explanations OUTSIDE the movies DO NOT COUNT. The R2-D2 thing: You already explained it, before you complained about it. He never "owned" R2, and he was playing dumb for Luke to see where that was going to play out. There was no reason to let on he knew R2 at all. There was no indication he didn't "recognize" R2 at all, just that he never "owned" him. The details he gives afterward about the other stuff is once he knows the situation, he's trying to get Luke's help, so he explains stuff to Luke to do that. He still doesn't need to let on he knows R2 from the past though, because it's irrelevant at that point. Sure, getting Luke to turn would break the Rule Of Two, however, Palpatine repeated shows he'll do ANYTHING to amass more power. If it means he has two Sith under him, fine. If one kills the other, fine. He doesn't care either way, because either scenario helps him. He either gets another Sith, or he eliminates a powerful enemy. Win/Win for him. He doesn't give a crap about the "Rules". The movies even show that, because he's training Grievous while he's training Maul and Dooku. Even though Grievous isn't technically a Sith, his presence and training automatically breaks the "Rule".
Except when Vader killed the emperor he redeemed himself and reverted back to good. At that point he was once again a Jedi and no longer a Sith Lord. It’s shows that Lucas does not understand what he created
Subscribe to me for no reason he was redeemed. But Anakin’s final form was in revenge of the sith. Anakin was only burnt and destroyed for a few minutes, before his literal death.
Subscribe to me for no reason no obi wans ghost spoke to anakin in his last moments and anakin let go of all the dark side and then he became the ghost
Matteo Scognamiglio the force awakens was the best movie of 2015 and made the most money ( 3rd highest grossing movie) and got amazing reviews and so far Disney has done amazing work other then the last jedi
No. About the last one. Palpatine wanted Vader and luke to fight to get the best apprentice. That's why Palpatine egged on luke to finish Vader and luke was like no blahblahblah. Then Palpatine said so be it and tried to kill luke. The rule of two would've still been there.
The plothole isn't that Vader or Palpatine tried to bring Luke on board; it's that they openly discussed it with eachother. Maybe it's easier to point out with scenes. Vader defeats Luke in cloud city and proposes they rule the galaxy as father and son: good. Luke defeats Vader on the second death star, and Palpatine encourages him to kill Vader and take his place: good. Vader speaks to the Emperor over holo, and when the Emperor suggests that the son of Skywalker must be "dealt with", Vader suggests that they turn him instead. The Emperor then entrusts Vader to do this: huh? The Emperor goads Luke to strike him down in anger. 1. Why does the Emperor trust Vader to defend him? 2. Why does Vader actually stop Luke from killing the Emperor? Vader will gain nothing by destroying Luke.
He's complaining that the prequels don't match up to the original trilogy, but Lucas didn't see the whole picture yet when he made 4-6. Personally I much prefer the prequels and believe it is the original trilogy that created plot holes once the good movies were made and needs patches. Also the jedi should take decades to train and it was tacky that luke learned the force in that short time even if it was a whole year
