Thank you for bringing back this totally underrated jewel from the 80's. I must confess I've completely forgotten about this, but as soon as I'd watched your video it all came back immediately! ;D Great synth, and yes, even back then we talked about that we would never buy it without the external controller... which was a shame, because it still sounds really good. Wish Roland would've put the interface right into the synth, just like the Juno 6, 60 and 106 at the time. So it lost out to all the other great synths back then, and when the DX-7 came out, all was lost anyway... ;)
Retroaktiv's gear are of excellent quality. I was pleased to learn the controller for the 8P also works on the GR-77b bass synth floor unit, and the PG2K is even more readable.
The Retroactive PG2K has been tempting me lately. But I don't think I'd do the KIWI mod - Espen Kraft seems to be quite the JX3P connoisseur and says not to mod it if you really like the JX3P as is (which I think I do). If I got my hands on a second JX3P that needed work for cheap with no controller... then yes, mod it and get the PG2K for sure. But my JX3P is mint, serviced, has the PG200, and optional Roland hard case... It reminds me of my childhood as we had a JX3P in our house in the early 90s. Love your videos and your easy going style. Always a delight.
Thanks… yeah that’s why I thought I’d show the envelope curves. They are different so if you’re an aficionado and know it inside out you won’t be able to get 100% the same tones. If, like me, you don’t know it inside out then it just adds tj its usefulness - but I would recommend a couple troller or software of some description to avoid the button combinations unless you’re going to use it all the time in which case it’ll become more familiar.
Thanks for making this video and for showing the capabilities of the Kiwi3P, plus also doing it in a fair and balanced way. There are similarities between the JX-3P and the Juno 106, though IIRC the MKS-30 rack version of the 3P is closer to the 106 voice architecture than the 3P. The MKS-30 has the same prone to failure combined 80017A voice chip assembly whereas the 3P has all the chips separately mounted. I get that the Kiwi3P upgrade is not for everyone, and I do understand some purists not liking modifications. BUT! In all respects Roland did a rubbish job of MIDI implementation with the 3P, as clearly shown by the much better MIDI capability of the 106 that came out barely a year later. Plus the original 3P interface somewhat crippled it by never allowing it to reach its full potential, and that is exactly what these upgrades address. I upgraded my 3P with the Kiwi3P upgrade and have zero regrets, plus absolutely no desire to go back to the original Roland firmware. Yes, you will need a different controller to get the best out of it (I use a BCR2000 with map downloaded from the KiwiTechnics website), but now it can do everything that the original 3P could and then some! It's like a supercharged 3P. Ensure that the latest firmware is installed as that helps address the envelope behaviour that some didn't like with the original Kiwi3P. The extra Kiwi3P power and features on top of the original 3P sound make this a much more flexible and powerful synth that has that great 80s analogue Roland polysynth sound that is still desired so much today.
... and thanks for the fair and balanced comment. Not being super familiar with the DOGs envelop behaviour I tend to agree that it's an upgrade that brings more than it loses.
Tech porn time! Metal is a 2 quadrant modulation ie AM ie form of Ring Modulation. MKS30 has the same VCF VCA combo as Juno106 while JX3P have discrete Q and VCA circuitry of rather low quality and noisy. The HPF in JX3P is a real 6db OTA based , the MKS30 is a gyrator type optocoupler vactrol design while Juno106 is a 2 way switch static design.
Always thought It was a must to have synth. Didn't know this upgrade due I already have the original controller, but this One seems to give more in terms of functions and editing..
Great video! I bought the KIWI 3P upgrade ages ago and never installed it because I didn't have the $$ for the KIWI controller. I've had the PG-2k on my radar for a while, too. But I've had the JX-3P since 1983 and used it extensively in the past. I love that thing. Or at least I did while I had the original PG-200. But someone stole it after a gig back in the late 80s and the synth is just a pain to program without it. I do love the sequencer on the 3P, though. I was a bit miffed that Roland nerfed it on their boutique version, limiting it to 16 notes. What a shame. The original has a max of 128 steps and up to 6 notes per step (though it's a real pain to program a polyphonic sequence on the original). I used to trigger the sequencer from one of the trigger outputs (there's one for Lo Tom and one for Hi Tom). I rarely used the Tom sounds in my drum patterns, so instead of programming the rhythm of the sequencer, I'd just enter a note every step in the sequencer and use the 606's Tom trigger to program the rhythm. That gave me the flexibility of changing the sequencer's rhythm on the fly.
Apart from wanting to collect old synths I find the JX03 a great little modern take with everything you need built in and the bonus is you can stash it in a draw. Pair it up to the A800Pro.
Bought a JX-3P in '83 w/ programmer. Loved it. Only sold it when prices rose on the used market (and have since flat-lined). It really just fit in a mix. But for some reason, all of its Roland contemporaries were always higher regarded (even the 106, which in '83 cost half a JX-3P). I also owned a Prophet-600... another mid-range, flawed instrument. Nice to see both of them getting hacked firmware updates to somewhat cover all their flaws (and there were many... too many to list).
It was (I think) in 1984. I had to chose between a JX-3P with the PG-200 and the Korg DW6000. I've decided for the DW6000 as Korg had the better UI (and the sound wasn't bad at all). Really a long time ago ... 🧓
A plus point on the Retroactive is that the PG-200s could be prone to failure, if the strange cable, which also supplied power along with control got damaged or the wrong one was used. Then, the PG-200 could go up in smoke. I'm not a fan of the way the retroactive hasn't been made small enough to fit tidily on the synth, though I get this is the tradeoff for more functionality. I regret selling my JX-3P, about 3 years ago, when they went for 450-500, but I had to move country. I like their purer sound better than JX-8Ps or Alpha Junos. And with the two oscs, I like them better for strings, arps, and more sometimes more dynamic pads than a 106; though not for bass and chorus isn't as classic Juno either. The cross mod gives some still simple, but better analog EP sounds than a 106. The JX-8P is also nice for those basic EP tones.
The Retroaktiv is the exact same footprint as PG-200 with the exception of about 20mm added to the rear, which was needed to accomodate the expression pedal jack. It would be hard to use the wrong cable, as only a 6 pin DIN is able to fit that connector port. I can't see a case where the use could damage anything unless they decide to build their own 6P DIN and they wire it wrong, but that would be silly, as those cables are about $20 each.
Wow, these have really gone up in price - I got my 3P + the controller box for about $300 USD total maybe 6 years ago. It's more versatile than the Juno IMO, but honestly there's nothing magical in it - it does have that Roland sound in the filters and a nice chorus, but it's nothing something I'd reach for (and plug in, and hook up to MIDI, and run through my patchbay, and huh? What was I doing again?) over the Roland VST's which scratch that itch. I did meet the Rob from Retroactiv recently (A really nice guy - Hi Rob!) and he told me he has plans for a Kawai K3m version of the controller - I'm excited about that one!
I've owned 5 JX-3Ps (one with organix mod and one with Kiwi mod - I fitted both and had a PG-200 with a non modded one), had a great sound and plenty of vibe. Replaced them all pretty much with a Korg Prologue 16 which could match it nearly all sounds but sounded 'better' overall with the VCOs giving it more life (and obviously has way more features and layering/polyphony). Still love that little thing though and actually like the looks of it! (I even referenced the JX-3P in some lyrics for one of my tracks 'Rewind 25' which was used on 'THE GOLDBERGS' for a party scene season 3 episod1 one for any TV nerds watching ;)
Great video love the new controller, I have Japanese JX3P with the PG200 controller. I have a replacement power for our voltage, anyone know where the earth would go? I just see neutral and live, most say have an expert electrician to fit it lol
Great synth! Side note: Puzzling accent from the old man filming 1:00. As I'm nuts for strange Brittish accents I am guessing the northern parts but mostly due to a clue in the comments. Now I will continue watching.
Yeah.. comedy Scouse (Liverpool) accent. I stress its comedy as it's how its represented on TV, but not what it really sounds like!... well sometimes it does :)
How is the resolution on the filter cutoff with the KIWI 3P? On the PG200 (and without) it's really really poor resolution. I'm probably going to be selling my JX3P, although nothing sounds like it honestly. Eventually going to grab a Jupiter 6 I think -_-
It's slightly steppy on the Kiwi-3P, as the Kiwi only has 128 discrete steps (Because it uses MIDI CCs), whereas the stock 3P has 256 steps. We did implement a smoothing algorithm to reduce the stepping of values when sliders are moved. You'll find that when using the PG-2K, the stock 3P with 256 steps is smoother to the ear than the 128 step Kiwi.
Heard somewhere the resolution is 6 bits, so 64 values. JP6 is lovely, nothing comes close to the effortless organic beauty of this master of all trades. Its resolution is 7 bits just like the Jupiter-8 and 4, so 128 values. You can pick up the non-detructive tauntek upgrade to obtain the most essential features of the europa mod without breaking any circuitry. Truly a great tool to have in the studio. Daft Punk likes it. oh uhhh, also to note that unfortunately for starsky, his unit is in very bad condition. the filter doesn't self-oscillate, the sliders are not scratchy, the tuning button does its job quickly and precisely, cross-mod encourages serendipity if you know how to use it, and on my unit which is a later revision with MIDI thru the resonance isn't causing a lack of bass, and the digital stepping is barely even noticeable if you pay attention to it. So don't use his video as a reference to say "all Jupiter-6 are like this"
@@marmite-land The resolution on stock 3P is 8-bit (0-255) and the resolution on Kiwi-3P is 7-bit (0-127). Not sure where you heard that they're 6-bit on the 3P, but that's incorrect. DW-8000 has 6-bit VCF, but 3P is 8-bit (using PG-200 protocol), unless you mod it, in which case it's 7-bit.
Wondering if I should make the upgrade or not, somebody else on yt told he kiwi mod changed the original JX3P sound a lot with differents enveloppes... I'm a bit affraid but it looks awesome with the pg2k
I’m not a big fan of the upgrades. Although you get extras you lose something if the charm. The only one I’ve kept is the prophet 600 GLIGLI. For me at least if I wanted something extra with more functions there are plenty of other interesting budget synths to try these days. But I do understand why some want to upgrade a well loved synth.
i spent $200. putting $100. MOD in my Ex800 now it's a completely midi controllable, with an MAX instrument in Ableton, pretty slick. My synth is a bit dodgy, which only adds to the lo-fi sound, honestly.
I saw a Ch 1 indicator can you change the midi out channel from the factory channel 1? Also I would like to know how you can back up the patches to a computer with this. Is there an adapter needed?
Hahaha nice review man! The auto troll is amazing 😂, the kiwi upgrades are genial, i own the juno-106 kiwi here, and the kiwi guys are amazing in support, i broken the main cpu of my upgrade and kiwi had no problems to send it a new one to me for free …where you will find so very nice support? About the jx3p is an amazing toy and with the kiwi and the programmer you really can reach the roof of the jx3p synthesis. The sound is really raw and direct…a friend of mine own it and i always said i should get one too.
What timing, I've just copped a JX-3P two days ago and barely saw this vid! Though, I won't be getting the PG-2K programmer anytime soon. Nor the Kiwi chip. I'm just gonna get to know the synth as is, the hard way in the meantime 😅 Also, I did wanted to point out how fancy that PG-2K is... I wish Retroaktiv had done the same with their JX-8P's programmer. I don't like much the one they have. The knobs are so thin, and small. And feels too crammed, that your fingers can easily bump other knobs. I wish they'd use sliders instead for the ENVs, LFOs, Mixer, and certain other sections. It's just kinda' weird to program as is. But better than nothing haha.. I still hope they'd make another version.
We did make a much more elaborate controller for the 8P called the MKS-70. That's got all of the same bells and whistles as PG-2K, supports JX-8P, MKS-70, Super JX, Vecoven 8P, Vecoven 8P PWM, and MKS70/SJX PWM. It's got sliders, a patch generator, assignable macros, etc, but it's about 6 times as big as the very small MPG-8. MPG-8 is intended to be a budget option for people who don't want to drop big money. We cover the upper end of the JX market with MPG-70.
@@retroaktivsynthesizers5075 Wow! Thanks! I've just checked it out. I can't believe I never noticed it long ago but that's definitely the one I'm looking for!
Yes, you can, but be aware that if using with a stock 3P, then you'll need to edit the synth using the PG-200 DIN, which is not MIDI. You can use MIDI to edit Kiwi-3P, Kiwi-30, and Kiwi-3P Matrix. You can select whichever channel you like for that.
I was on the waiting list for the PG-2K since day one. It's a fantastic bit of gear. Really makes the Kiwi mod come to life. My only petty gripe is that it doesn't sit precisely and nicely on top of the JX-3P because it's a little bit bigger 😭
I’ve not got the kiwi 106 and tbh I’m such a fan of the 106 as it is (nostalgia) I don’t think I’d want to fiddle with it. Having the PG2K and the kiwi on this just made sense.
You need an OG to power this controller. It's powered via a JX3P specific 6 pin DIN. It will work with anything (you can create your own MIDI maps), but you'll still need to power it.
Sorry for the dumb question, but do you need the kiwi upgrade to use the PG-2k or does the PG-2k work out of the box with the Jx3p on its own? Thanks, your vids are amazing.
It works without the Kiwi.. I think the demo track with the TR8 was made pre KIWI. I got the KIWI as there was so much extra functionality with the PG2K. I normally don't really like the upgrades but with the box it just adds so much more here.
@@falangistavaleroso9689 Ahh. I haven't tried them. I just saw that the layouts were more or less the same. I personally do not like those LED sliders much.
There's some iPad apps that are great controllers for some vintage synth as well, if you get yourself an iConnect interface. I would have kept that alpha juno, if the controller app for iPad was out when i had it...
I’ve heard from people like Espen Kroft that the kiwi mod “ruins” the sound of the 3p by changing its envelopes, making it more clinical and less characterful. Do you have an opinion? Any chance you could do pinpoint a comparison of a kiwi to a stock jx-3p?
I’m not a fan of mods in general. But I’ve kept the GLIGLI on my p600 and the kiwi on this. If I didn’t have the controller id be less keen on the kiwi - but with the contriller it’s a no brainer. For me it’s more about the interface being ruined by weird button combinations and losing the instantaneous interaction.
@@StarskyCarr I weighed it up and plumped for the JX3P and DTronics for half the price of a Juno 106. But if I'd not won the JX3P, I'd probably have got the 106.
I found a JX-3p at a pawn shop for $50 USD in 1995. Then got PG200 for $150. It’s less expensive because the BASS sucks. Everything else is better than 106.
The MKS-30 bass is ever so slightly better than that of the JX-3P. It's odd that they rolled off the lows on both, becuase these VCF circuits are used on other synths that actually have good bass response.
I think thats probably part of why they weren't considered serious.. 'Flute' and 'Oboe' printed on the front panel, filter tamed from a lion into a pet cat, and that interface. Worth a look now though perhaps.
Starsky awesome video as always;) after ur advice please. What hardware synth would u recommend for leads, dirty weird filthy smelly leads;) any advice please? I have an iridium for pads ect and vst’s, just after my next synth that’s awesome for leads and need some help please. 😊
Thanks… :) It depends on what your workflow. MS20 is my go to for something that pops out. It scan be truly disgusting! And very weird! This week I’ve been playing with the SE-1X video coming tomorrow. I had one years ago and sold it when I got my Minimoog - but had forgotten how dirty this thing can sound. And it’s got presets. For experimental madness the Malevolent is hard to beat (and hard to control 😂). These are all amazing for dirty basses as well. Filthy.
@@StarskyCarr Starsky ur such a bloody legend, I knew I could count on u. YES mate been looking at the MS20 the mini one, lots of love for that filth box;) I’ll check out the others. U also recommended me some pedals a while ago. Thanks so much legend, respect from a Brit in Oz ;)
I'm not familiar with the Kiwi mod, but I've run into a lot of people that won't buy a JX-3P if it has the Kiwi mod. I own 2 original JX-3P's and 1 PG-200. I may get the PG-2K for the other one. Should I also mod one to be Kiwi?
I got the KIWI mod to make the most of the PG-2K. If you get the controller the mod is a no brainer. I get what people mean though. I had a JP6 with Europa and hated it... I also took the GliGli out of my P600 originally (but eventually put it back in). Sometimes its nice to have the simplicity of the original. I think we now have access to so much modulation on other bits that it can be unnecessary and over complicate things. With this controller thats not the case.
@@StarskyCarr do you know anything about the Kiwi3P Matrix mod? It appears to be a newer version of the original Kiwi3P, but the panel overlay looks completely different, and the specs are completely different too. The PG-2K works with it, but I can't find a single video showcasing the mod, or any videos doing a comparison between the Kiwi3P and the Kiwi3P Matrix.
@@AKDanMusicMan The only real difference is that the 3P Matrix offers some basic PWM functionality and it cuts out the pattern generator. It also offers a 3rd envelope and LFO, but for such a basic synth, I have found this to be overkill.
@@retroaktivsynthesizers5075 thanks. I was having trouble finding a panel overlay for the Kiwi3P and discovered that it had been replaced by the Kiwi3P Matrix. I asked Kiwi what the differences were and they haven’t replied yet.
@@retroaktivsynthesizers5075 if the Kiwi-3P panel overlay is no longer available but the Kiwi-3P Matrix is, would you leave the JX-3P original with the PG-2K or would you mod it to the Kiwi-3P Matrix? I just ordered the PG-2K.
Just buy a Modern Juno X and be done with it if you like Juno's. JX basically the same thing in a different package like all Roland products. I got kinda tired of all my old synths taking up so much room and constant maintenance on top of an enormous power bill. One Fantom basically covers the whole Roland Series, sounds just as good and has all the functionality you need. Most of the synths sound so close and really the same I can't see collecting em anymore. I can't buy into numismatic thinking anymore either with people saying they got something worth "More" because it's older or rare. Truth is they're "Rare" because most don't work anymore and parts are expediently disappearing. It's 2022. Goodbye Vintage. It was fun back in the day.
It's the same thing, but with a couple of slightly improved tweaks. I've got the stock 3P, stock MKS-30, Kiwi-3P, Kiwi-30 and Kiwi-Matrix (For development purposes) and for the most part, they're the same. The matrix has PWM, but IMHO, it doesn't add that much. I don't think he's missing out on much. ;)
@@retroaktivsynthesizers5075 ...and have you ever done a dx7 controller...I have one with the supermax upgrade but via midi sysexs cause it to reset the sound. Maybe a memory card to midi sysex adapter;-)
@@0richbike Strangely, they're different from the stock 3P AND and the Kiwi-3P. Kiwi 30, Kiwi-3P and Kiwi-3P Matrix all have different envelope responses. I don't understand why. It makes it so the patches are not compatible cross-platform. I still think the original 3P envelopes sound the best.
I bought my JX3P in 1994 and towards the late 90s I was already running my first label, New Vision Recordings which was a Drum & Bass imprint. I used the JX3P on every single release and I found it incredibly easy to create epic DnB sounds with it. In those days I was using Octamed on the Amiga 1200 to sequence my tunes which would indeed allow me to send midi CC messages to the JX3P so I'm wondering if my machine has been modded? At first I was using it to change presets throughout my tracks so that I could have the JX3P playing different sounds but I was also able to effect the cutt-off and resonance as well. The best example of this in action is a track I released in 1999 called Spinechilla which was a bit of an anthem back in the day - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O9yrBWydhHU.html Cheers!
No. Each voice has 2 oscillators. A Minimoog for example is a single voice monosynth that has 3 oscillators. Juno’s have a single oscillator per voice, and jupiters have 2 per voice.
I've never fancied the JX8P for some reason. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one for an extended period to dig into it a little more.. The size of the thing and the vast open plains of its surface always put me off!
No it’s the same as it always was. It’s PWM but it requires 2 DCOs, sync and an LFO. But there’s a lot of grief going round if you say it can’t!! Basically you loose the 2nd oscillator. But it’s there nonetheless.
