(811) Challenge Lock from Freefalling13k 

Thanks a lot for giving my lock some of your valuable time. In testing those pins they did rotate when the key was removed and required them to be rotated back. Back to the drawing board to come up with something even better! My goal was to keep you out for more than 2 minutes. That's a win in my book. All work was done with a dremmel tool and some files. I'm already getting Ideas for the next one.

Look at the key, all the flats are skewed in a direction. Notice that the V pins are also pointed non-uniformly on the other side. The key will orient the pins so the V's line up with the V slots in the core as well. If the pins were rotated the wrong direction, the shear line would be obstructed. So they are both height dependent and rotation dependent pins.

the stuff you can learn on RU-vid amazes me, I'm gonna cancel my cable tv

Drops pin "I used to work with explosives" hahaha

I bet the idea was that the wedge from top pin would move through the cut when bottom and top pins are aligned so that wedge is parallel to the cut. The problem is that he got it backwards.... When the pins wedge is perpendicular to the cut the bottom pins wedge will push the top pin up, so lock actually opens with bottom pins being in either of rotational positions. If he did not cut the slots in the core and designed the key to have wedges align parallel to the core itself, you would have much harder time picking it.

I have nothing with while to send you, so I've started watching your ads before each video, thanks dude

When you said they look like baby birds and with the sound effects i spat my tea out all over my laptop,thanks for that Bill because that made my day sir. ;-)

The pins have to be rotated to the correct position before the core can rotate. The key has those weird angles on it to lock the pins' rotation in place. The only problem I can see with it is that there's no way to actually scramble the pin rotation, probably the only reason you were able to pick it

I see it. With the V cuts in the pins, parts of top and bottom pins can both be inside the plug and bible at the same time, without a grooved plug that is. The grooves in the plug gives you an initial shear line that is lower that the actual. But to turn the plug, the top pin has to ride up the slope of the V groove to clear the actual shear line. Makes it harder for the plug to turn. Justs my forensic engineering analysis and opinion. Never seen anything like that or even thought of it. Nice. I still dont see how you picked it open that quickly.

Bill, It looks like the key is cut like a Medeco so the pin has to be aligned in a specific direction. The grooves on the cylinder would make it so the shear line would function if and only if the it was aligned with the groove of the pin. If the pin were rotated at all, the lock wouldn't rotate as the part of the angled pin would be above the shear line with the other part below.

I think the idea of the "V" cut is if you look at the key pin, the bottom is "V" cut as well. So if a pick is pushing up, it might rotate the key pin, and as it's pushed up, mis-align the driver pin's "V" cut from the groove as well

Check the cuts on key, they are angled as well, pin stacks need to be lifted and rotated to the correct position... think Freefalling13k has been looking at a Corbin Emhart ;-)

I had a very similar idea just not in the V shape he used... BUT, after doing some very time consuming work and taking the time to really think about how a pin tumbler works I realized my idea would only change the shear line and not prove much if any more difficult. Nice work Bill!

Looks to me like it's supposed to emulate a medeco...the key pins seemed to rotate as the key was pulled in and out.

"I used to work with explosives." I love it, I'm still laughing. Hopefully your dexterity was a little better back then. :)

I'll admit that I no nothing really about lockpicking; I just enjoy watching you practice your skill. My thought is that Freefalling13K's idea was if the pins rotated while picking , they would get caught at the shear line. I think that may also be why the key was cut so sharply; the pins would be/stay aligned by the key.

That's what thinking outside the box will get you. Doesn't always pan out but always worth a try. Good job

When the slot in the key pin is aligned perfectly with the peak of the driver pin there is no shear line. The key is cut at an angle (like a medeco) to rotate the key pin so it no longer aligns with the driver pin then there would be a shear line... and a small gap in the pin stack. I think.

the pins can rotate together and if they aren't in line with the grooves in the core they would force the driver upwards with tension and make the lock possibly inoperable if the driver needed to push too high to move

Looks like the key will align the pins in the correct angle, with it's V shaped cuts. When picking the lock, the pins are supposed to be misaligned by the pick. However, that did not seem to work all too well. Maybe it was the tension, sheer luck or Bill's mad skills that kept the pins from rotating to a wrong angle.

It's nice to see thinking outside the box. very cool execution

Making sure to keep the same front angle, Grind it so angle slopes to 1 side or the other. This will rotate pins, back & forth.

Looks like the grooves in the core are to make a V shaped shear line, and if the pins rotate to roughly 90 degrees out of alignment as a whole, they will never match the shear line and will not pass through as the wedge on the pin will be perpendicular to its shear line. Pretty neat.

good concept for a lock, can't wait to see what the community does with the idea

The shear line is no longer a line in pins 2 and 3. The cut between the pins is no longer a line either. The only way to turn the cylinder is if the V cut between the key and driver pins is aligned with the V cut in the cylinder. The pins must be rotated to the correct position. The angled cuts on the key do that.

It looks like the key has angled seats for the pins to rest on. my theory is that the pins rotate so that the notch is just out of alignment with the notch on the cylinder, so that even when the pin is at the shear line, the core will not turn, unless the pin is also rotated to the proper orientation.

Oh yeah. That sliding going on in there together with some changing angles. Mmmm...love it.

I don't know if it'll make a difference in picking, but I will DEFINITELY give him credit for originality! I think it's pretty cool!!!

go back and look at the key, he's shaped it so the pin (which is V'd at both ends) is twisted in to orientation when the key is inserted, so the V groves line up, but when picking you don't line them up.

Bill, if I had a nickel for every time you mentioned how you were going to use a short hook to start off, I'd be able to afford every piece of kit on here and then some. Always love a good challenge lock video.

like the new logo bill. great to see something new! I dig it freefalling.

Those bird-pins have to turn at the right angle to form the right shear line. And that is what the funny angles on the key are for.

Great video! Thanks for your contributions to the lockpicking community!

that's some cool stuff. if he'd angled the cuts in positions 2,3,&4 and included an angled 'wiper' on the tooth just past position 5 he'd have three radially aligned pins that get unaligned each time you remove the key (home made emhart). again, cool!

If you hit these pins uncentered while picking, they rotate and wont open at all. The key can straighten them again to open.

Here's an idea. The pins are not engaged until the key is fully inserted. So the cylinder is INSIDE the key! AND IN THE LOCK! There u have it guys. The unpickable lock. Two cylinders. Chevy Chase and Dan Aykroyd.

I really appreciate how u explain your job during these "sessions"! would like to test that lock

looks like they are free spinning and the sharp V angles in the key are what help to align them, note that both ends have a V cut in them.

It looks like a cut price version of whatever lock brand it is where you have to turn the pins to free a side bar. (Medeco?) However here, they just have to be turned enough such that the Vs on the bottom pins line up with the grooves on the core. If they're not lined up, then the core should not turn as the top pins should lock it in place. Very clever!

It looks like the pins have to be rotated a certain way along the shear line. The key has angles to make that match the V cuts on the bottom of the pins to make sure they do align

Bill, it looks like if the pins (in pin and driver) are rotated lets say 90 degrees, the V would not line up and you would not have a shear line - basically like fitting a round peg into a triangle hole. So the whole pin needs to be in the correct orientation to allow the shear line to pass through the cut V on the core.

Hey, Kevin thanks for sending the lock. I want to send one to but I'm just not very good yet and my lock I'm guessing would be a 5second job for mr.bill. So my name being Kevin as well I can pretend this was my lock giving him a hard time. Good work to both you Kevin and you bill.

I think the pins were cut like that to make you think you have that pin set.With the middle being so deep you might think you have the pin set.

Nice picking. Nice to see people doing something different with pins

At 7:00 you can see the bitting on the key is cut at an angle to turn those pins and misalign the groves. You have to control the rotation and the hight of each pin to get it to the shear line. This would be very difficult to pick.

Taking a guess at those pins, but it looks like an attempt to have a second sheer line for the central pins. I thought he was trying to make axials (that key is...."rustic"?) . Combine that slotted pin with a chisled end (Biaxial) and you'd have something

Good thing those drivers weren't serrated. Although, after two years, im sure they are now. Nice pins and another great pick.

Nice job building that lock.

looks like he is figuring on those pins rotating when you pick it to make it more difficult. The bottoms of the key pins are cut at angles too so that they fall into the sharp angles of the key and get rotated the correct way.

Finger's healing up nice! Nice lock, nice video. Cheers, matey.

Good work Bill, I see future lock challenges. It seems like a good start

if the ridge/valley of the pins had a slope bias requiring the lock be turned one way or it would catch - might account for left turn

Interesting lock. You guys should put your heads together and see if you can take the concept further.

Looks like there are lots of knowledgeable folks following your channel

Very unique lock. Cant wait to pick something like that.

Push the key pin in the bible, so tip of upper pin reaches shear line.. while doing that, key pin's edge gives false feedback of a serrated.. then you have no feedback of when the upper pin's tip alligns, cause it is encased in the key pin.. assuming you somehow realise all the above, and get the upper pin's tip alligned, then you have to release some tension to allow the key pin to drop out of the way.. now.. imagine this pinning in prefect sized "tubes/pines" and perfect cut/matched grooves... damn..

I think these cuts should (in theory) make it a LOT harder to get a false set or maybe ad multiple false sets to the same pin. Notice that the cyl. is cut in a way that rotation pushes the pins even more up than the key would, so without a key you don't get the false set you want. AAAAAannnd there is one more thing - these cuts may be there NOT to do anything with locking, but to make sure that these weird angles on a key mean something. Why? Well - it's because the key rotates pins with these weird angles You have noticed and with NO key cuts woth correct angles it's a bit of a lucky roll to have these line up with the cylinder cut - just do a quick check: if you rotate them by 90 degrees they will lock in the deep cut just because they are rectangular from one angle and triangular from another..

My first thought on seeing the cuts on the key was "Medeco Biaxial".

Love the new logo, classic, subtle, but looks great

very impressed with your website! Well done! My hat has been tipped to you

"i used to work w/ explosives"...hahahaaaa!! i heard you talkin' about that the other day. that's hilarious....scary, but hilarious.

Love the new logo! Looks very professional

Those are some sick pins. Nice job "Kevin".

What it looks like to me is the pins being cut similar to a medico would make them come out of alignment with the deep grooves in the core you would get them to be overset. But that still wouldn't matter so I don't know

Who keeps giving the thumbs down? What's to thumbs down? Go figure.

At first I thought that rotation would be needed to align the pins to make a serrated shear line but after watching again, after the plug was removed and they key was moved in and out there was no rotation. All of the pins stayed in alignment with the cross cuts in the plug. I am guessing the difficulty in opening was from the imperfect machining and tolerances(not from a lack of rotation) I could be wrong just my observation.

Bill, you have hooked me on the fun of picking lock. I only picked a few over the years using formed paperclips to open desk that folks lost keys for and filing cabinets. Over the years I have lost the use of my legs and so I have been looking for something I can do with my hands and thought that hobby lock picking would be fun and doable for me. So I thought about getting a lock picking set.., but decided to check Ohio law first.., and that shot me down. In Ohio they basically say you are guilty of criminal intent just for owning lock picking gear. So unless I as actually a licensed and practicing locksmith it would be considered criminal to own a lock picking tools in Ohio.Ohio Code - 2923.24. Possessing criminal tools. (A) No person shall possess or have under the person's control any substance, device, instrument, or article, with purpose to use it criminally. (B) Each of the following constitutes prima facie evidence of criminal purpose: *** (2) Possession or control of any substance, device, instrument or article designed or specially adapted for criminal use…. "Prima facie evidence means evidence which is sufficient to establish a fact, unless rebutted, and that standing alone and unexplained would support the conclusion for which it is introduced;" STATE v. HICKS.

Mr. Bill, just my assumption on this particular lock pin thing going on, the thought might be sorted from a kinetic attack, and the pins and drivers spinning, causing the shear line to not match... nut would still lean towards single pin picking. Try it kinetic... see what happens ? things change hehehe

I suppose the purpose of the V-groove is to make the pins travel a longer distance than normal? Would that allow for a deeper bitting?

haven't see anything like that before good job on picking it . look forward to watching the vids everday

Yeah I like what he did with the lock and he was right we hadn't seen that before.

thanks Bill

love the logo. I want it on a jacket

I thought from the name you'd be picking locks while parachuting from 13000 feet;maybe in order to deploy the chute or something. Thought that Bill just upped his game :). Either way, it was a nice pick to see.

very interesting lock. very nicely done last pin

I think it might make the core turn earlier if the top pin reaches that cut sheer line, thus why you kept getting full locks and having to reset. But that's my guess.

Looks to me like the key ends of pins 2, 3, and 4 are grooved to match the weird angles on the key you were looking at (especially pin 2). I assume it creates a smaller/more awkward surface area to pick, but more to the point, without the key, the pins could rotate, thus misaligning the grooves at the top. So even if you picked to the correct depth, no set. Interesting idea, if it works. (I hope this makes sense)

Wow Bill the key hitting looks like it is close to violating the "max" and in danger of the key getting stuck in the lock

Never seen anything like it Bill. As you say pins cut like that may not make a difference as they inter lock.... Maybe something due the plug being cut down that slows you down and not turn correctly, hence reason he said pick counter clock as there is a fault with plug moving clockwise. Just dont know !!!!

"guard cat" - hilarious.

I like your new symbol bill,,thanks for making videos!

Looks like the tensioning was supposed to misalign the pins, hence the warning to pick it counter-clockwise. I would be interested to see if you have more trouble picking it clockwise. How often would you pick it counterclockwise? And is it a tactic you would use on a stubborn lock? If not then perhaps this sort of modification is effective at slowing a picker down.

man three videos in one night! man bill you are crazy!

Surprised the lock works and that key een goes in with those angled cuts. If those ever got turned in the chambers I don't think you'd be able to get the lock open Don't think the key would work with factory cuts either. I'd love to code cut the key to see

I've skydived from 12500 feet and i can tell you it was very fun :)

Excellent bill, a real fan

If you turn it clockwise, the pins get caught up in the grooves, because the grooves aren't perfectly cut...that would be my guess. I did see, or maybe that was my imagination, that when you turned it clockwise at 7:43 it stopped turning. Design flaw of made this way, I dont know.

if they added a small "straight" groove and pin to it, it could possibly be even better !

Lol I liked when you pulled out that knife

Notice the angles cut into the teeth of the key? I'm fairly certain that it's supposed to turn and line up the core pins that have the v-cut.

It looks like the key has a angle cut that corresponds with the pin.

the cuts in the pins have to be aligned with the cuts on the core, or it won't turn ... adn the cuts are aligned by grooves in the key itself ... kinda clever ... would be hard to turn those bastards the right way with just a pick ... you probably nudged number two into the right alignment at the end of your picking the lock ...

If you look at the angle of the cut on the key it looks like it would turn the pin so that the V and the point would twist apart so you would have a shear line. I could be wrong as I can't see it too clearly but that's what it looks like to me. Could you confirm that, Bill? Also, its funny that you are picking a schlage lock today as I was picking my first schlage two days ago. I spent probably half an hour picking it with tension clockwise and decided to try counter clockwise and picked it in less then five minutes in that direction. Thought that it was odd that it would matter at all as it would turn either way. Maybe they design it that way to deter picking? Any thoughts?

The lesson learned is that sheer-line locks will be picked.

That looks like a tough lock to crack. Wouldn't mind a go

That locklab logo is legit.

Really cool I'd like to know more about those grooves when you find out please

Like a bunch of little baby birds lol

hi bill i have a theory as to how the pins work as you said the key had some strange cuts in it and the bottom pins also had a wedge shape in them when you put the key in it seemed to twist the pins a little lining the top pins with the groves cut in the cylinder but when you pick it the pick does not twist the pin in the same way so the v cuts do not line up.

great new logo Bill!!