83 Weeks #33: Starrcade 1997 

This stuff is amazing. As a long time griever of WCW dying, I Never thought this stuff would ever be re-told like this 20 yrs later. Loving it

I love that Conrad got fired up about the Sting and Hogan bullshit

"You f****d the finish over a tan?!? Is this real!!!???" 😂😂😂

Conrad and Eric arguing with the finish of Hogan vs Sting was classic.

Did you buy him a tanning bed! that line just cracked me up. the best part is the last 25 minutes or so arguing over the screw finish.

Hogan vs Sting may actually be among the best (if not THE best) builds in wrestling history.

Take a drink every time Conrad says "Meltzer says"

Bischoff: "You done? Geez, Conrad. Settle down, big man. I don't you to bust a blood vessel doing this stuff."

the goth crow character sting was playing definitely needed to be tanned.

I was in attendance at Starrcade 97. When Macho Man came out to wrestle unadvertised, that was one of the highlights for me

Actual Starrcade talk starts at 1:29:50 but the lead-up is pretty good as well.

The best 83 weeks episode 🦂

I believe Eric's side of the story, but the thing he's ignoring is Hogan's ego. Sure, Hogan didn't stand to gain additional money in the wrestling business, but he was all about appearances, and in his own head the wins and loses (and how those loses came about) did matter. And anyone who thinks otherwise is just not wanting to see the reality. And it's not even all Hogan's fault. The nature of the business and the position he was in negatively encourages that mindset. Austin was just as bad iirc. But as such, it's entirely believable that Hogan called the change in the finish to make himself look better. He has a long reputation of changing things at the last second for this outcome. Kicking out straight after 3 when Warrior pinned him. Or even most recently, just look what he did with Shawn Michaels, and you can't even argue the money there, because he intentionally cut a best of 3 series short because he didn't want to lose a match. That's just who he is.

Should've had a clean finish. If they wanted to get Bret involved, use him as an enforcer to fight off nWo interference.

The best crowd reaction was for sting to Squash Hogan. And I'm a Hogan mark.

Conrad is fuming and biting his lip the whole podcast, until the sting talk started. Conrad was obviously just leaning back, waiting to explode on Eric. Great stuff

It’s so weird when Eric says he discovered sting wasn’t ready (underweight, pale, and mentally not with it) ON THE SAME DAY AS THE PPV. So the past 16 months Eric only saw sting in the rafters just like us the fans? Something about that sounds very messed up and inaccurate.

Bischoff on giving Sting the title at SuperBrawl 1998: "I don't know the answer to that."

Just finished listening to all of the podcast and it was awesome!! I want a "That doesn't work for me brother!!" t-shirt!!

Man, i'm so grateful for the opportunity to have heard this conversation. What an honor to reflect on so many great memories

I love how Bischoff skirts around the biggest motive for why Hogan is behind the slow count. The whole world just saw Hulk Hogan clean pin the hottest thing in wrestling not name Steve Austin. The visual everyone will see forever see after the show is Hogan pinning with a slow count.

I remember watching this Starrcade as a teen. I've always wondered why the next night on Nitro, Schiavone called it a fast count when it obviously wasn't. Learn something everyday I guess.

The finish of Hulk Sting should have had Hulk think he was going to win after the leg drop. While he plays to the crowd, Sting does a Hulk style no sell and gets up to have Hulk desperately throwing punches with no effect. Death drop, deathlock, done.

I listen to this a few times per year. Back for another listen. I havent watched wrestling since '99 or so.

WCW could have hit a grand slam with this ppv, instead they grounded into a triple play.

I know this comment is extremely late. After Starrcade 97 I quit flipping the channels back and forth. I stuck with WWF from that time forward. They killed the biggest wrestling angle of all time in a horrible match and a jacked up finish.

I'm really glad Vincent was on the show, that's all."..... Best. Line. Ever.

2:54:32 Conrad goes ape shit 😂😂

Starrcade 97 the beginning of the end of WCW IMO

Listening to these two talk about Sting and Hogan near the end is gold.

I love how conrad was trolling the shit outta eric towards the end lol Eric didn't bite though

Another great installment of 83 Weeks..insightful, informative, engaging and entertaining. Great job Eric and Conrad as always.

Conrad oversold his outrage

The last half an hour of this is pure fire!

I'm proud someone finally confronted Bishoff over this bullshit. Way to go Conrad!

CONRAD...STING had a drug problem. It hasn't been deeply publicized like others, but it was a Reality. That was WHY you needed an " out " for this finish. Reliability is something that's invaluable. Kudos to ERIC for not burying STING.

Bischoff lies like a fucking rug. A Hogan Yes Man. Hogan got what he wanted in the end. Conrad ate Bischoff's ass up at the end of this. Total Magic Conrad. Love ur passion.

The last 30 minutes are like HBK vs The Undertaker at Wrestlemania. And yes, Conrad it's Taker...or the scene between Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise in the mother final act of A Few Good Men. He nailed the point of the screwed and goofy finish and the fallout after Starrcade 97. Thanks Eric and Conrad, one of the best showdown of a wrestling podcast in the web.

It’s so funny to think back to this time period I’m not only WCW but also my life and my life as a huge wrestling fan. I knew the lingo and thought of myself as a smart. To a degree I was, but there were things like Bichoff that really mentally got me pissed, and I didn’t even realize I was just a mark in certain regards. Eric Bichoff being one of them. What a magnificent character he was. Total props to you sir. Much respect, but I hate it that the best angle ever got screwed over here. I can’t let that slide.

Using Sting being untanned as an excuse is beyond ridiculous - Being tanned didn't suit Sting's gimmick at the time *_at all_* anyway - he was supposed to be a gothic, brooding "The Crow" inspired loner. It made sense for him to be pale. Imagine if Brandon Lee had a spray tan on during the movie The Crow lol

DAMN the last 30 minutes were phucking fierce, WHEW......thank u conrad and eric. cant wait for next week and the aftermath of this episode.

WCW NWO Revenge was and is the best video game ever!

Thank you Conrad Thompson for telling Eric everything I wanted to say...God bless you brother. ..

who cares what sting "looked" like... he was perfectly able to perform. this whole scenario makes zero sense

lol I love this.."Calm down Conrad!"

I will save you all three hours. Basically, Bischoff says it was all Sting’s fault. Conrad gets hot and mad dogs Bischoff over it.

It is funny how so many 'mishaps' happened that benefitted Hogan... The 'fast count' was a big deal, Eric - and it has still yet to be satisfactorily explained. Sorry to say.

None of this makes sense when you consider that Hogan had jobbed clean countless times even during the immediate buildup to this. The dude was put out by a Piper sleeper hold THREE different times. He submitted to the Torture Rack on live TV. How or why would he have been afraid of looking weak?

I have been a wrestling fan since the AWA days. That was my territory. When Vince stripped AWA of the talent I was watching in the AWA, I went to WWF because that's where my favorite wrestlers ended up going. So when WCW accumulated that generation of talent I jumped ship to WCW. I was a Mark for the Sting t-shirts coming out in 97,98,. I had the throw pillow the Sting Beanie Baby the Bash n Buddy, the Toy Biz action Figures, I saw Nitro live more than once, unfortunately for the two live shows I attended Sting wasn't on the card and did not appear. One show was after he had been injured after wrestling Brett Hart, the second time was the night after the pay per view where Vampiro set Sting on fire. Sting was my guy. But I am also almost fifty years old and was also a fan of KISS. If and this is what I get from both Eric B, Steve Borden himself, and Nick Patrick with all of them Saying Steve was not where he could have been during that match with Steve even coming out and saying no he didn't think the finish would have him winning so he wasn't physically prepared like he should have been, that should be enough for Conrad. But Conrad ignored the two other things Eric said regarding Sting and Harped on just the fact that Bischoff said he wasn't tanned. Mentally Steve wasn't there, and Bischoff said he couldn't; go into it because of Steve. And that Bishoff and Hogan both questioned whether he was going to be able to pull off a finish that would be satisfactory. Borden himself has stated in interviews, he was drinking, he wasn't in shape he was facing a possible divorce at the time of that pay per view, so what the fuck does that have to do with Hogan? Nick Patrick not counting at the right speed? Yes, Patrick has said also that someone told him to count fast and someone told him to slow the count down. It still doesn't change Brett coming out stopping the match and Sting being declared the winner. Was it fucked up? Yeah. As fucking much of a mark as I was for Ace Frehley and Peter Criss during the reunion tour all the way back to seventy-eight, if they were fucked up or were not bringing their best then as disappointed as I may be as a fan I can't very well turn around and start yelling at Gene and Paul because I personally believed Ace and Peter were better. And That's what Conrad did here. I like Conrad, he makes some valid points, but he is also going to stick to his opinions and it doesn't matter if the facts don't match his opinion. Was I disappointed in the Starcade ending? Yeah, I was. I paid for the damn pay per view, Nick clearly did a regular count of the ending of Starcade actually Starcade itself didn't live up to the hype. Did I buy into the Terry Bolea thing? No. I wasn't a big Hulk fan as a kid, I was a Macho Fan, a Warrior fan, a Jesse Ventura fan, A Piper Fan, Bobby Henan Fan, and Undertaker Fan. By the time I switched over to WCW I was Jericho Fan, A Macho Fan, a Piper fan still, a Kevin Nash fan, and a DDP Fan. I bought the PPV and continued to buy the pay per views after. So How does this make it Hulk Hogan or Bischoff's fault if I was the dumb fucker who kept hoping the storylines would get better, and what is screaming and whining twenty-one years later to Bischoff going to do? It's not like we can go back in time using the Delorean and change anything. I personally don't take credence to anything Dave Melzer has said in the past twenty years. That doesn't mean he's always wrong. Shit, even the National Enquirer got a few stories right back in the day. But he has been wrong enough that certain Superstars have publically called him out if his sources have been wrong. All it means is I pay closer attention to what the wrestlers have to say about particular incidents. And not pay attention to Melzer. He's not the performer in the ring, he's not the one running the company, what do his opinions actually mean at the end of the day? I've listened to this podcast episode four times and Listened to Conrad go off because Conrad was disappointed over a particular event or has had a particular opinion he has had for a length of time, and then get upset when what he believes to be true turn out to be false when he hears it from the horse's mouth. As I said I like Conrad, It's his podcast, he is the co-host to three successful podcasts but he does this with JR. He does this with Eric, and he does this with Bruce Pritchard. Why get so upset? Why is it sometimes the truth as unspectacular or wildly different from an opinion you may have formulated twenty years ago and stuck to is enough to get you heated when you are given the factual answer of what happened? And how does it change history now? It doesn't

I know I'm late to the conversation but I've reignited my love for wrestling these last 2 years, and just got in to this podcast. After watching hundreds of hours of interviews and documentaries it seems crystal clear to me what happened and frankly I think Bischoff owes Steve Borden a MASSIVE apology. Eric is clearly lying and making excuses which is b*llsh*t and cowardly. The ending of Starrcade 97 was the biggest mistake in WCWs history. Sting deserved to get over Hogan clean, the NWO could've ran in to interfere and the "WCW guys" could've ran in to stop them, stinger splash, scorpion deathlock, Sting defeats the evil Hogan and WCW could've lived happily ever after.

I'm a huge fan of Eric. But he's all over the place on the finish. IMO they should have had the clean finish to Sting, and give everyone the payoff they wanted. THEN screw Sting on the Nitro after.

These longer shoots are great but the dam ads are brutal.

Stings entrance was awesome. Probably one of the best entrances in any promotion

I've got 2 words 4 ya!!! Great episode. 😁

Actually Starrcade '97 wasn't as bad as the critics say it was if you go back and watch it-- see for yourself. But I do think people had such high expectations for it and thus it let people down for a couple of reasons: 1) The opening match was terrific, but most of the undercard suffered because of absences and no-shows --- like Kevin Nash, Syxx, and Konnan, and Bobby Heenan on the mike 2) Certain wrestlers for one reason or another, didn't want to wrestle on the PPV- like Konnan, Raven and Scott Hall. Bischoff had to pay the Macho Man a premium just to show up and take Konnan's place in the 3 on 3 tag match. So, the undercard did need some shoring up a bit. 3) Sting was depressed, discouraged, and had not been working out. 4) Hogan like always, was reticent to do a job. But the big one was that: 5) Bischoff really wanted to capitalize on the Survivor Series 1997 controversy by having a screw job of his own. And at first, Bischoff, Sting, Hogan, Hart, Nick Patrick and Schiavone agreed that the screw job would be a fast count. But, somewhere down the line, somebody decided to change the screw job finish from a fast count to Hogan grabbing Sting's tights. And, in all the hoopla and excitement, someone forgot to tell Bret about the new finish. I suppose WCW could have camouflaged this: Schiavonne did yell out that Hogan had cheated by grabbing Sting's tights and perhaps the casual fan would have bought it because he or she would not be paying enough attention to the match. But, changing the finish yet again and not telling Bret proved to be a major blunder because Bret Hart yelled out that there was a fast count on the mike thus exposing the finish. Thus, WCW's screwjob turned into a botch job. Still- it was pretty cool to see Sting get the Bret Hart treatment from WM X from 1994 at the end.

U know,it took listening through this twice,but I've decided conrad and Eric have strategically worked us all. Bravo guys......get the views brother.

The entire match made no sense. -Why would the nWo just allow that match to happen? Good thing they sent the heavy hitters in Bagwell and Norton to save Hogan.. -Bret making the save is payback for his screwjob... how exactly? Not seeing another screwjob is... revenge? -At this point, fans were over Hart anyways. WCW fans just didn't care about him (see his entire WCW run) -Nick Patrick was either in on it, or he's the worst ref in wrestling history. -Sting fights off the entire nWo for 18 months, yet can't get any offense in against 1 guy? ALL of this... to give Sting the belt at Starrcade, the next night on Nitro, at Superbrawl and 1 PPV title defense (Hall) before dropping to Savage in a transition to a Hogan/Savage story (and Sting was tan by this point). Not much loyalty to the "flag bearer" of WCW.

I've been waiting to hear about Starrcade 97 since this podcast started! Excellent show as I listened to it several times already. Conrad really prodded Eric and.. Eric did come off kind of bad. Eric pretty much gave his side of the story and you see what the biggest difference between he and Vince McMahon: Eric trusted his talent too much, while Vince would have made sure a finish like that would never happen in a billion years. I think Conrad at times is too harsh on Eric when it comes to the booking of everything in the company. Eric was not a micro manager (which people now knock the WWE for) and trusted individuals to do certain jobs that at times, like in this particular instance, he should have stepped in. The whole thing was dumb, but I agree with Eric: Sting still won the belt, the fans went ballistic and WCW was still hot all throughout 1998.. but what happened before the finish really does not make much sense and I'd love to hear Sting and Hogan's side of the story!

Bischoff's logic still doesn't really explain the screwup at Starrcade.

Eric is right. I could care less about Meltzer's stars.

This PPV was OK & I was pissed that we didn't get to see Nash vs. Giant until a month later & also was pissed because Nash never wanted to put the Giant over

Starrcade 1997 is still fucking amazing, the best thing about WCW was the unpredictability and the star power it was just simply magnificent

This way my favourite storyline in wrestling ever and I thouroughly enjoyed this as a kid growing up. Sting vs the nwo was so crazy that you just had to watch every week just in case u missed something. The fact that anything could happen on nitro made me each and the believability of the heat between sting and the nwo particularly Hogan was incredible. This was way cooler than Austin vs Mr McMahon that the WWF did 5months after Starrcade 97. Personally I think this storyline that lasted about 18 months from start to finish with Sting is highly underappreciated. When will you ever see the longevity of a story told in a wrestling storyline of today's era? The answer is you won't!

Yoooooooooo...if you watch Sting's documentary on WWE Network he and Eric tell a different story than what Eric tells here. The word politics is used quite a bit and Eric points more toward Hulk not wanting to do a "favor" for Sting because he questions his commitment to the story? Anyways it makes Hulk look really bad in general and basically makes Eric look like a liar on this podcast. NOW I understand why Conrad was so fucking frustrated! Hulk changed the finish because he didn't want to lose clean and btw...Sting didn't look as leathery as Hogan but he had a tan, he looked fine. Maybe he didn't tan the week of but he certainly didn't look pale either! I lost so much faith in Eric after this....😥

3:06:58: The way Conrad realizes just instantly goes "He kinda has a point" right here is hilarious.

By the way the Guayaki Yerba Mate tea is awesome Eric! Thanks letting us know about it!

This narrative that Sting showed up to Starrcade in poor shape seems like nonsense to me. What exactly is it based on? His gear covering more of his body? He wore that type of singlet for months before this as part of the new look for his "silent warrior/Crow" gimmick. He wasn't as tan as Hogan? Nobody on Earth has ever been as tan as Hogan. Sting's Emo character should be pale anyway. My point is that he performed physically just fine, and his "being out of shape" is the flimsiest excuse in the world for Hogan to not put him over cleanly when it was absolutely the time to do business.

Conrad got me by the balls at the end. The real angry fan manifested. Cheers to you both.

I think Sting lost interest when Lex Luger beat Hogan months prior when it should of waited for Sting to beat hogan

Wow a 3hr Bischoff show. I enjoy this podcast but i absolutely cannot stand when Eric gets asked a question, then he takes a deep breath through his teeth and pauses for 3 or 4 seconds to formulate an answer that doesn't sound like complete BS.

I was in attendance for this Starrcade. MCI Center was brand new, at the time.

Until this episode, I hated Conrad and loved Bischoff. The analysis of the main event created a Bret/Austin double turn for me.

Damn the back and forth about the finish was gold😂

Bullshit Eric. Sting looked fine. He was lean. His arms were huge. His skin tone was perfectly fine for his character. And he could go. How much time did these people have to notice that he was pale and out of shape? They never saw him until time for Starrcade, and then were like “oh, we better rethink this”? Give me a break. It’s a cop out. Hogan and Bischoff tell this side of things. Sting, who actually has a track record of honesty and transparency, especially regarding his life choices, doesn’t mention this. He talks about all the closed door meetings Hogan & Bischoff had without him about the match. Constant back and forth about whether or not to let Hogan drop the strap. But never giving Sting an answer. As far as the match and the finish, Sting refuses to point fingers or speculate on what went down. What was intentional and what was accidental. He only says Hogan’s knees were bad. His own personal life was a mess. And it just didn’t turn out like they’d hoped. It wasn’t Sting’s body that was the problem. Was he maybe a little checked out? Sure. But say that. Stop making excuses to cover that this was really about Hogan’s ego and giving up the top spot.

"You dont wanna put over Elizabeth? Get the fuck outta here! You just ruined our biggest PPV ever? See you tomorrow!!!" Conrad ON FIRE!!!!

What was Bischoff doing in the backround? Mixing cocktails for Hogan?

NWO should had ended at starrcade with Hogan being in the middle of the ring and all the members of the NWO coming in and tossing their nwo shirts at Hogan's motionless body.

Conrad "did you instruct nick to do a fast count" Eric "NO...Maybe" Cocaine is a hell of a drug

LOL, I will credit Conrad this, he wouldn't back down with Bischoff here.

One thing I’ll say for Eric is he has made me appreciate Dean Malenko a lot more as a character, previously I bought into the narrative that Dean was a great technician with zero charisma but now I watch for the subtleties in his performances.

Became a fan of both of you today

Sting's entrance from the rafters wouldn't make sense, he was reppin' WCW to get that title off the GOAT

he takes so long to answer the question he FORGETS THE QUESTION!!!!! 43:20... YOU CANT MAKE THIS SHIT UP!!!! Bischoff talks so long he BORES HIMSELF!!!!!

Best one yet

The ending to the main event of Starrcade 1997 was a huge middle finger to the face of the fans. It totally fucked up everything. It made no sense. Sting should have gone over cleanly. His momentum was ruined. Nobody could suggest with a straight face that the finish was adequate.

Heres what I think happened Sting showed up out of shape and either drunk high on pills or both like Heff Hardy in TNA vs Sting so they changed the ending and Bichoff doesnt wanna bury him(he even says Im not gonna go into the deeper darker issues) so he comes up with all these excuses WTBS if your gonna let Sting win which they really had no choice, why make him look weak doing it, also inadvertantly because of the count make Brett look like a dick? Also Bischoff saying to the effect of Hogan had a guaranteed contract what did he have to gain is a cop out! Hogan had been rich since the 80s at this point he was all about his ego and getting himself over he was all about Hogan and not WCW or wrestling or the fans for that matter. Hogan had been the guy for so long and he didnt wanna relinquish that hence the hokey finishes!

Great informative podcast... but I could do w.o the Dave Meltzer references.

Conrad screaming, "You f*cked the finish over a tan," is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

The problem Conrad raises at the end (but then strangely lets go) is the question: Which one is it? Why was the outcome changed from a clean Sting victory to a screwy finish (which Nick Patrick then botched)? Was it because Sting lacked his tan or was it to give Bret Hart an opening? Don't pretend like the two just coincidentally arrived at the same time to result in this finish. So which one is it, Eric?!

HOLY SHIT. Was this a AMAZING EPISODE!!

The funny thing is the Starrcade 97 ending is what could have happened at WrestleMania 14 had Michaels not lost to Austin

Why did Sting need a tan?? He was technically a lost soul. So basically have Hogan beat up Sting for 90% match and him losing clean was the best you could do?? Bret didnt even look good in this cause he hit a ref that did nothing wrong lol. This looks like Hogan did something on the fly here

Eric said "Was Bret for WCW or was Bret for the NWO? The storyline played out perfectly" in the Bischoff/Zybysko match. I couldn't disagree more! I thought the Bret ref stuff came off so awkward in that match. It was a terrible way to use Bret. On the finish to Sting/Hogan I can't even take Bischoff seriously. If Sting was in such bad shape why put the Title on him at all? Then he says well we stripped him LMAO yes and then gave him the Title AGAIN!!! To say it was a miscommunication is insane. Nobody after 18 months thought to clarify the finish with Patrick, Hogan, Sting? Give me a break! Not hard to see why Eric oversaw a company that booked Starrcade '97 + '98 and don't forget the Finger Poke. I can't believe he tried to defend the finish to Sting/Hogan lol just terrible!

love this channel and bischoff i believe most often but this ppv....HE SCREWED IT UP BY KISSING HULKS ASS. THIS WAS THE BIGGEST MATCH EVER. AND IT WAS A CLUSTER

Bischoff loses credibility here regarding the Hogan v Sting finish. 1. If Sting showed up in less than adequate condition, the plan would pivot to having him lose and not become champion. Changing the plan from a clean finish with Sting on top to a screw job finish where Sting still ends the night on top doesn't make any sense in this context. 2. Why would there even be a referee lottery if the plan from the beginning was a clean finish? If the original concept was for Sting to win it outright, the official would play no role. Clearly WCW always intended use a screw job finish or they wouldn't have had a referee lottery that a heel ref won. 3. It's also obvious the finish was planned to utilize Bret Hart as an official and try to get him involved in the main event. I think it's fair to say that the plan from the start was a stupid, convoluted screwball ending where Bret saves the day and Sting walks out as champion. Sting's condition was not a factor in this clearly pre-planned finish. Unfortunately, WCW, in true WCW fashion outsmarted themselves and fucked up an already poorly booked match exacerbating the problem. They destroyed a year of build up and let WWF back into the race during the ensuing fallout. Bischoff claiming that this finish was planned the day of the event is nothing short of a lie.

The only matches on this show that were booked correctly were DDP-Hennig (although it would have been *so* much better if it could have been Flair) and, believe it or not, Zbyszko-Bischoff.

The whole NwO Nitro was an interesting concept that turned into a Love Letter too Hogan.

@1:06:37 i remember in the late 90s espn (subsidiary of abc/disney) began running stories about the negative side of the wrestling industry (steroids, poor health, etc) since wrestling, both wwf & wcw became so popular, it was threatening monday night football's ratings.

I've been waiting for this one

Comrad going in on one made me laugh out loud 🤣