a base-neutral system for naming numbering systems 

You’re their friend Kate? Would love to also see that English Cyrillic page that has been down for years. Does it still exist somewhere?

Have you considered "pandozenal", Since panem means bread in Latin (and pan is bread in Spanish [and maybe some other Romance languages, but I don't speak Spanish I just use Duolingo, don't at me])?

@@KelniusTV pan also means grain in Toki Pona

@@KelniusTV panem is the accusative case of panis, btw

hinal

Aka the feeling you should get from every Jan Misali video should be somewhere between academic paper and shitpost.

I just want to see baker's dozenal in an academic paper

@ bikers dozenal

if you enjoy academic shitposting, also check out Tom7.

"seximal is used instead of senary because senary isn't reminiscent of six" ok that makes sense "thirty-six is niftimal" ???

Oh yeah, and “seximal” definitely doesn’t sound like some other unrelated word. :D

Their name is not Jan, "jan" is just the prefixal noun used for names in the conlang Toki Pona. Great comment though, you are very right xD

@@byronlopezellington8839 also "jan misali" rhymes with "ron weasley"

@@annyone3293 nor doze dozenal. Especially not in baker's dozenal, biker's dozenal, triker's dozenal, and sexer's dozenal.

But they're not unrelated

Good point!

Great catch

Fr

I was hoping that was going to be some sort of punch line, where instead of the thumbnail "every base is base 10", the conclusion is that "every number is 10".

wouldn't it be base-infinity as every base has its own unique name?

Followed by the beauty of sexer's dozenal.

@@theapexsurvivor9538 there’s no sexer’s dozenal. It’s hexaker’s dozenal.

Triker's dozenal. Which I suppose is a baby biker's dozenal.

@@felipevasconcelos6736 :(

For counting in baker's dozenal, the words instead of "eleven", "twelve", and "thirteen", can be "jack", "queen", and "king".

-sure danske lyde-

I hope whoever let Danes and French near numbers got thoroughly spanked :P

@@emdivine Okay the french might say ""four twenties and thirteen", but confusing so "four-twenty-thirteen"" but the danes say ""half-five (that's four and a half lol) twenties and three" - and wait, let's make that an abbreviation, like "half-five-s and three (the -s means twenty lol)", but that's not convoluted enough, so we say "three and half-five...-s" i gUeSs tHaT'LL d0 LoL xD"

@@zackchristvevo Well described! I'm quite aware of the silliness present in both languages, and I know Danish is very much the most chaotic one :P But I also like to take the opportunity to laugh at French which half-way gave up when making up the names for numbers above 60

@@zackchristvevo Half five meaning four-and-a-half actually makes sense to me lol. In my language, Hungarian, when talking about time, “4:30” (as in half past four o’clock) is referred to as “half five”, and so on. It is a weird coincidence.

Hahaahahahaha

GAWD DAMMIT THAT'S SOME GOOD ASS SHIT RIGHT THERE RIGHT THERE 👌👌👌

it’s pretty DEC23? what’s so DEC23 about it? /j

@@wilyriley_ you mean "/hj"???? /j

Your likes are bakersdozenal, perfectly balanced as all things should be

Cannot like, likes are a prime number (which would have a name like this)

Your current number of likes is 10 in unbielevsnatetraseximal

@@KaosFireMaker it would actually be unbi *leva* snatetraseximal (the prefix of elevenary is -leva-)

Why are they terrible?

Gauss is rolling in his grave

Also both bielevenary and unbielevenary, pronouncing it like "believe"

And bikers dozenal 😂

I swear I did too, for several seconds!

Literally had to pause the video, was not expecting that

yeah, that my problem with this system, okay, having to know base 10 to understand what another base means is silly, but if I was an alien that didn't knew base 10 I'll much rather learn base 10 to understand another base name, than remember all those semi-random rules.

@@ledocteur7701 Which 10 are you talking about? Every base is base 10. That's literally the entire point of the video. Were you even listening?

@@Luigicat11 base 10 as in base decimal, or base gesimal if you are using his system. and yes, I was listening, thank you for asking.

@@ledocteur7701 You're welcome, self-liker.

@@Luigicat11they brought up a valid criticism of the video, you didn’t have to insult them 😭

When you trick yourself into liking linguistics by applying it to maths

when you trick yourself into liking maths and linguistics by watching jan misali

@@Somber_Knightl̥̝̟̹̚ĩ̪n̯̈ɡ̰̪̰̬̥̩̤̬̥̪̃̃̃̃̃̃̃̃̃̃̈̚ʷ̰̃˞u̪̰̚˞̃sti͜͜͜͜͡͡͡c˞s̬̆ hosted by t̪θ ŋɔʃθɑʎɣɪɑ çritiɕ

When you trick yourself into watching jan Misali by learning math and linguistics exhaustively

"siximal" :)

Actually, the “jan” is lowercase, because it’s not part of their name. It’s a honorific for humans.

​@@felipevasconcelos6736 I'd capitalise Mr./Ms./Mx. so I'd capitalise Jan too. Toki Pona doesn't even have capitalisation in its proper script, the Toki Pona syllabary, so we should just apply the rules of Latin script.

@@TheZenytram “toki” is just “language”, “speech”, or “talk” in toki pona, so it sounds like you’re saying “we’re talking in English not a language”. Back to the argument, Misali writes their own name as “jan Misali”, sometimes omitting the jan. When used in English, “jan” may be considered part of their name, but it’s still written in lowercase. If Apple can get away with iPhone, Mitch can get away with “jan Misali”.

@@Salsmachev in toki pona, proper names (and only proper names) are usually capitalized. Capitalizing “jan” would look weird, like if I said Gary Oldman, referring to any old man named Gary.

Great experiment! I've often thought along the same lines, how would it be if you always come up with a new symbol for every new quantity counted. After running out of the familiar Indo-Arabic numerals maybe you go on to uppercase letters, then lower case, then other keyboard symbols, maybe other alphabets like Hebrew, then emojis (enormous number of them these days), then flags of all nations? However similar any symbol might be to another, there could be no rule for deriving it, its use would always be arbitrary. Then one day you'd crack and say to hell with this, I'm going to express the next numbers by recycling symbols already used. At that point and only then you have a base. At the other end of the scale if you were for ever using one and the same symbol to count with, say #, just adding it to the string of #s already there (unary or tallying), your "to hell with this" moment would arrive when you do come up with a new single symbol to express and replace that long string, and again only then would you have a base.

@@chrisg3030 Oh emojis are so smart. We just made squiggels and shapes. Some system was in there. I remember from like 223 - 4** was very flowy and after that for a few hundret was very straight lines. But emoyis would have made it typable.

#s

-bro show us the spreadsheet-

*SHOW US THE SPREADSHEET*

i need to watch iCarly

After all these years since watching that episode, derf always lay at the back of my mind, waiting for someone to mention it once again.

that episode always annoyed me because he (at like age 12) is clever enough to immediately perform calculations in base 11 in his head but apparently he needed carly as a tutor !

Lewis Lockwood It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I thought he pretended to need help in math to have an opportunity to bully Spencer?

@@DarkShadows713 My memory was that he just bullied Spencer to pass the time in between tutoring but it's also been ages since I last watched the episode

It's not gaslighting if getting enough people to believe you actually makes it true /j.

It's not gaslighting if you're paying obscene amounts of money (and/or going into debt) to learn it as truth, no matter how suspect said knowledge could be in real-world contexts.

TL;DR gaslighting != gaslighting. Ignorance is strength, war is peace, freedom is slavery. Big Brother is watching me.

How do you think things actually *become* standard practice? In 50 years, this *will* be the canonical naming scheme for base notation, simply because one didn't exist, and this filled the void. Which means that math papers on fractional radix will contain a ridiculously obscure in-joke.

@@normanclatcher "/j" stands for /joke.

You've just described math

He has solved basism

*they

They put me in mind of that too. But at least these don't have embedded digits and commas.

Honestly when he showed the three-letter abbreviations, I couldn't help but think of amino acids

The abbreviation system looks like something railways and aviation use to shortern their station/airport names. Maybe his code can help next time?

Ill have you know that (6E,13E)-18-bromo-12-butyl-11-chloro-4,8-diethyl-5-hydroxy-15-methoxytricosa-6,13-dien-19-yne-3,9-dione is a perfectly natural way to phrase a chemical name (C32 H52 BrClO4)

@@Isometrix116 I used to understand IUPAC organic chemistry names. I actually have a degree in chemistry, but it's been almost a decade since I graduated.

- In what base are you counting? - I call it base 9 - How does that narrow things down? - 9 is the top or max digit in what we currently call decimal, denary or whatever, using the conventional symbols 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Duodecimal is now base B, hex is base F, as these too are widely recognized single symbols which can precisely specify top digits, enough to uniquely designate a base without using any other base.

@@chrisg3030 hex uses lowercase letters so someone might think you’re talking about base 42

@@eomoran It's not so much that hex uses certain letters as we humans use them, but by no means universally or consistently. I just said "widely" in my comment. Having said that, on my Casio calculator when using the hex function you have no alternative but to enter uppercase into the register top left in the display, say 5Bx1, but you always get an answer back in lowercase, 5b. I don't know why.

While impractical in real life (as literally all of this is), another proposal is to always default to binary for base names. Binary is the smallest base and therefore is inherently special. Plus, you could arguably call it the most used number system on the planet.

@@antonliakhovitch8306 base 1? 0 = 0 00 = 1 000 = 10 0000 = 11 00000 = 100 ...

If it's scientific, it's natural /j

@@disgustof-riley8338 if /s is for sarcasm, what is /j for? just kidding? /j

@@DeJay7 joking. afaik there’s really no difference between /s and /j idk when or why people started using the latter

@@nate_storm hi im a month late but typically sarcasm denotes a more condescending or potentially rude tone, while “joking” is more light hearted

@@MarxismLilyism if joking is light hearted then what’s /lh

I lost my marbles at that one

Not to mention that it's for "base 23" lol

@@tanyaomrit1616 Why is that funny?

@@driveasandwich6734 The whole 23 conspiracy theory thing

@@tanyaomrit1616 Oh, I didn't know about that one

In the same way that decimal has properties relating to 3 and 9, I'll bet that suboptimal has properties with all powers of 2 up to 16 which would be pretty cool.

@@MCredstoningnstuff yeah, every base has properties similar to decimal 9 for the base minus one, which I've seen called the "omega" in some circles with the "alpha" being the base plus one so suboptimal's omega is 16, which has similar properties to decimal 9 alpha is 18, which behaves like decimal 11 and the *square* alpha is 290, which has the same alternating-sum properties as decimal 101 (oh right you literally can't get worse than square-alpha for fives)

why learn everything in 27 when you can learn -1/27

@@MCredstoningnstuff Not very suboptimal of it, now is it?

Representing 1/2 in suboptimal (assuming 0-9 + A-G for numbers) would look something like 0.8888888... 1/3 in suboptimal would be... 0.5B5B5B... 1/4 in suboptimal would be 0.4444444... 1/8 would be 0.22222222... 1/16 would be 0.11111111... So, yeah, has some of the properties of hex, but kind of in a useless infinitely-repeating form, the way 1/9 is 0.111111 in decimal.

I think you missed the joke.

​@@blablabla4513 Seems like I did now that I read the newly pinned comment

Thirteen is called a baker's dozen, so it makes sense.

@@arcynic-education3221 I'm not privy to the joke, myself, but I could tell, after having watched 10+ jan videos, that his dry humor was coming through.

@@kindlin: His username is Misali!

how do you do padding tho? like how in decimal we can write 23 = 023 = 0023 = 00023 = 0000... but this wouldn't be possible in unary... right?

No it would be 000000000000

@@SreenikethanI That wouldn't be possible since unary is not really a number system it's more like the length function

That's bijective unary. Normal unary just involves the digit 0 and it's impossible to write any number that isn't zero.

Unary has a number of big problems. 0 can't be written unless by using empty space, which is problematic for a huge number of reasons. Fractions can't be written as floating point numbers, since I.I= 1 × 1^0 +1 × 1 ^ -1 = 2 = II where you can see that all floating point numbers are whole numbers in unary. This is pretty horrific for dealing with irrational numbers, like Sqareroots, but even worse for unalgebraic numbers like e and pi. Last, it is pretty bad visually. Unless you connect each five with the fifth tick, it is pretty horrendous to count which number it is, and if you use tick marks, it is a worse version of Base 5

nice pfp

I've been arguing we don't need new names, we could simply name any base after its top single digit, the symbol conventionally used to designate the maximum quantity before we start carrying or doubling up. So what we currently call decimal or denary or whatever is now base 9, seximal or whatever is base 5, duodecimal base B, hex base F.

@@chrisg3030 But I don't think there is a standard for representing the highest digits for an arbitrary base, is there? So we would need to create a standard for that anyways, plus then decimal becomes base ten and binary becomes base one, which is a tad confusing to people used to the old way

@@weir9996 I don't see the problem. The standard for the highest digit in any base is simply whatever is in some kind of generally recognized use as such. F for example is the top digit for hex as far as my Casio calculator is concerned, which is good enough for me, though doubtless there are people who prefer other characters. We know it's the top digit because when you enter F + 1 you get as an answer not another single digit but the recycled pair 10. This brings me to the main point of my suggestion. It's meant as a third alternative to calling it a verbal name like, say, hexadecimal, or favoring decimal as a standard by calling it base 16. I think you meant decimal becomes base 9, like binary becomes base 1. Yes that's confusing, so I'm not seriously challenging the "old way". Mind you my suggestion would mean what is often understood as unary or base 1, or a tallying system, would now become base 0. But that's kind of appropriate, since the position of a tally digit in the string doesn't affect its value. Or the number of things counted minus the number of digits equals zero, unlike higher bases.

I’m pretty sure all zero of suboptimal users are very happy with that name.

since the only people who suggest using base seventeen are doing so as a joke, I don’t think there’ll be many complaints.

It is morally correct to bully people who prefer suboptimal

@@IONATVS I guess it's used for coinage in Harry Potter? But even then that's an indirect parody of predecimalised currency (and is also fiction).

@@darcieeastham9347 Most of the ways suboptimal is worse than elevenary or baker's dozenal only start if you use it for all the place values and not just one-all of the first five primes have maximal-length repeating periods and 13 has half of the maximum actually I wasn't expecting the other one to be untetraseptimal but still that at least has a two-digit fifth and a one-digit seventh

not really. it's not an algorithm that's practical to do by hand at all.

jan Misali said it's not _designed_ to be done by hand. Any program that runs on a Turing machine can theoretically be replicated by a human with infinite pencil and paper, even a game like _Doom._ (Though your frame rate would be abysmal-maybe try Hovertank first?)

@@timothymclean What would the algorithm look like if it did take that into consideration? Also, how abysmal would the frame rate be, specifically?

Technically every base after base two is nonbinary

Damnit, man. You got me roflmao-ing.

I won't try and stop you, I'm too busy calling base 12 biseximal.

@@godminnette2 You’re not wrong, but I don’t like it.

wha??? No biney??? Hardly any biney??? Thatse so cool...

Ndom is a natural language. So is Komnzo.

@@thewanderingmistnull2451 ah yes google is so smart, cause ndom is definitely translated to English.

@@thewanderingmistnull2451 There are, technically, multiple conlangs involved: Esperanto for the mal- prefix, and Vötgil for the vot- prefix. Of those two, I'd only really consider Vötgil to be particularly obscure - Esperanto at least shows up in things like Google Translate, and I feel like most people who can name more than, like, three languages will have at least heard of Esperanto, even if they couldn't tell you anything about it.

if he doesn't want to use base 10 positional notation, easier compromise is to use non-positional notation, for example roman numerals.

Roman numerals are also kinda base 10

It boils down to "Quakers are different, can't have that in America". Also, they take swearing vows extremely seriously.

They make oatmeal too I think.

dooge

dooge

dooge

dooge

dooge

plot twist: the real chemistry joke was the IUPACnomenclature parody

@@tracerbullet1741 lol this system is magnitudes less complicated than iupac

Then what is the equivalent language equivalent for something “acid-neutral”?

@@iantaakalla8180 acid minus neutral is base

Organic Chem welcomes you.

TELL ME WHAT BASE THIS IS FOR.

@@freyalalumiere4664 5758 in decimal (12:51). Or base 10 in binbinbinbinbinbinoctelevenary.

@@harrygenderson6847 hank you :)

I was a bit excited

holy shit your'e here

Wait it's that person who did the thing and he's here now wow

is this a fucking crossover episode?

so mixed radix centesimal is just paired decimal, that makes conversions really easy, and I assume it works for any base which is a power of 0o12?

@@willsterjohnson It specifically works this way for any and all square bases (or at least those square bases greater than 36, because those bases can just be written digit-wise normally.)

same applies to tessahex, 123456789ABCDEF0 in hex is 12:34:56:78:9A:BC:DE:F0 in tessahex

Given that many places prefer to put spaces between certain digits for large enough numbers, you could argue that a lot of the time we use decacentesimal (base one-thousand). In fact, SI is more decacentesimal than it is decimal, even though _Metric is_ decimal. Rather than a square-base, this is a cube-base used less for compression and more for mental chunking.

TIL French phone numbers are Base-Centessimal

It's not remotely "practical" - or "useful". Anything that requires a complex piece of software to encode and decode (and worse - one with S-L-O-W runtime because it's not an O(N) algorithm) is horribly IMPRACTICAL - it obfuscates unnecessarily. "Practical" is what we actually do: Use "base N" (where N is, by convention, decimal)...and use nicknames for the handful of bases that are actually used in common practice...so we can say "hex" rather than "base sixteen" if we're computer programmers. As I explained in my earlier comment, this entire system (as complex as it is) is missing a whole lot of things that number bases can do - signed digits, for example - and it doesn't tell you what set of symbols to use for digits in bases 11 and above...so you go to all of this trouble to NAME the base of the number - but provides no means to actually write the number down.

@@SteveBakerIsHere hey steve baker, I think it's pretty impressive you were able to write that whole comment with a stick up your ass, pretty cool👍

I bet my brother will use that xD

@@SteveBakerIsHere If you want/need a pronounceable, base-neutral system, this is very useful. You would only need the software if the nomenclature has to be standardized, otherwise, using any combinations of factors wouldn't really be a problem.

​@@driveasandwich6734 But the whole premise of that is that it presupposes some dire need for a "base-neutral system". But why do we need that? What's wrong with using base 10 as the default - and calling every base by the simplest, most easily understood system..."base N" (where N is a number that's expressed in base 10 by default). That *tiny* piece of convention - has to be weighed against a system so baroque that it needs a complex algorithm to decode it - and a dog-slow algorithm at that. Where is this all-important "use case" for an utterly base-neutral system? If it's to somehow eradicate the cultural basis upon which we use base 10 by default - then it fails *HORRIBLY* because it just uses more obscure base10 words. For example, using "sex" or "hex" as a way to say "six" makes no sense if you're trying to work in a base 4 society that has no word for six. This is a solution in need of a problem...and not a particularly good solution at that.

Have you ever tried singing 100 bottles of beer on the wall (or alternatively cent bouteilles de vin sur le mur) in French? It's significantly funnier.

quatre vingt dix neuf is probably the least confusing name ever, so you're wrong on that. In fact, the reason why it's dunked on so hard is because of precisely that, because it's so simple that it's literally just addition/multiplications.

@@cursedmailman3999 Ninety-nine is literally just multiplication and addition too (nine tens and nine). The difference is that ninety nine fits the same basic logic as the rest of the number system to which it belongs. French counts in decimal through 79 and then inexplicably switches to vigesimal. That's why quatre-vingt dix-neuf doesn't make any sense. It's also not very succinct. Neufant neuf is three syllables. Quatre-vingt dix-neuf is almost twice as long without any improvement in clarity. Now if it was just pure multiplication (eg. quatre-vingt for eighty) I feel like that's helpful because it shows you something different about the divisibility, but eighty is basically the only French number that actually takes advantage of that.

The use of quatre-vingts is a remnant of an ancient tradition of using base 20 numbering systems, not joking

@@Salsmachev Also worth remembering that French spoken outside France itself often uses different numbers. Walloon/Belgian French uses "nonante" instead.

The New Numeral System -- a new way to calculate and express numbers. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GWX-TBijClc.html

Prisoners' system.

@@EnriqueLaberintico lmao

@Unknowable One way of making sense of 00 could be to argue that if unary is a tallying system, that is the number of digits you write equals the number of things counted, then 0 is one, 00 is two, 000 three and so on.

@@chrisg3030 that might make it the most intuitive number system asides base 10 for those already accustomed to base 10

@@RTDelete i hate that word

lmao sex

***imal should be base-(68+1) instead!

Yes That's the joke

@@AuraSight there is a joke?

biseximal

Yes, but see: this video didn't come with /reading and research/.

@@ookazi1000 I mean, it did. It's just that it was reading one page and then one algorithm. Both of which he wrote. I've gone back and re-read stuff I wrote a long time ago and it totally counts as research.

@@Duiker36 A fair point for a reasonable definition of research. I don't consider browsing one's own work research, but if you do, that's fair.

Mayan base 20 system also used similar system, but in a slighlty better way. You have only dashes and dots. Dot is 1 dash is 5. You stack those symbols vertically to create a digit (up to 19 - 3 dashes 4 dots) and those digits are placed horizontally to create numbers. Up to debate whether you want to call dash and dot a unique symbol, or every combination of them is a unique symbol to you.

we technically don't need the ":" in digital time, just like we don't technically need the "," in "1,000,000". 235959, 050239, 165243, these all contain all the information needed to convey time. 23:59:59, 05:02:39, 16:52:43 are just easier to read. same as 1000000 vs 1,000,000, not necessary to separate but it helps a lot

Isn’t this like calling English a logographic language where each logograph just happens to be a composite of multiple Latin logographs…

you. i like you

oh boy

Binonary sounds a lot like binary too

Thank you for improving my enjoyment of this video even more

I was absolutely certain that joke would happen and waited the whole video for it and it never dropped and I'm so confused

I was about to write something here, but you... You just cracked me up.

I also think I'll be using this naming system system for referring to base 78.

@@theapexsurvivor9538 ??? What do you mean? (Also, REMEMBER ME???? I'M THE POULTER'S DOZENAL GUY FROM THAT OTHER COMMENT'S REPLIES!!!!)

@@CasualMitosisCollective sorry, meant 78, not 72. 78 is 6*13.

@@theapexsurvivor9538 oh. Ok.

i think dactyl would be better for seximal considering you can very easily count to 36 by hand counting in seximal

decimal would be bihandal in that case

Here's the thing: decimal isn't the only base that's easy to count by hand. Binary (folded finger is 0, unfolded is 1), seximal (as mentioned above) and biseximal (using the thumb to count the [forgot the word for part of finger] of other fingers)

They were the first ~in a few ways~.

I cant wait for the sequel where he figures out how to name irrational base systems

booyah

indeed, this is why base-sixty, outside of JM's naming system, is often called sexagesimal

Isn't that negative pentecost?

Well, you can see it in the name in this system for twenty as well, Vigesimal. The word for 20th in Spanish uses that term too, Vigésimo.

Language is is arbitrary. I laugh when somebody says, “That’s just a made up word.” Like, thanks for informing me how words work. 😂

And base-14 as the poulter's dozenal as well.

For even more fun, base-thirteen could be “Tartarusal” as in Persona 3, the thirteenth hour instigates the rising of the tower named Tartarus.

for people allergic to anime games, you could also call it "Tartarusal" because that's the amount of cans of tartar sauce you can drink before passing out

I GOT THE JØKE

It is baker's dozenal right now

@@arska-pelejavlogejajaautoj5030 Now it's bilevenary

it's trinonary now

underrated comment

hopefully not

Yes, you niggabinary.

No. Nega- is not racist, but another word is.

​@@AlbertTheGamer-gk7snyou mean nigga? 😊

negasonic teenage warhead

A 10(sub) minute video, for which he had to do no additional research.

@@ookazi1000 ‍I'm so mad at you, but so proud. An actual use of suboptimal in the wild

coz cognate. when yr 60 yr old

@@WodkaEclair ohhhhhh

sena means six.. that's the name of the card numbered six

To me senary sounds more like a name of a building

@@WodkaEclair Nope, it's just a coincidence. If that were the case, then the first e in senex would be long (like sēnus), but it's short

Just saying that to someone using base 23 would be epic

Yeah, base thirty-one IS unconventional thank you for pointing this out.

@@cobalius Is that a motherfucking SCP reference?!

At some point, every base would be made up of exclusively un-,hen- and -sna-s.

snasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasnasna

Makes your friend hurt?

@@lukec1471 oops fixed shhh

@@tamaramacadam8650 lol nice

100th like

10 minutes in suboptimal

10 likes in suboptimal

bard

Ikr

that's what I was thinking, and I didn't even know he did the carmelldansen one. Or didn't remember ig.

I was thinking from the beginning of the video he should collab with Oliver Lugg. Same sort of seemingly random or diverse but yet -(still?)- beautiful set/collection of topics. That also all seemingly match my interests...... WHAT FIELD ARE YALL IN AND HOW I GET IN?!!!

hey i came up with that one

Wait until biker's dozenal

@@sy-py wouldnt that make base 78 (6*13) sexer's dozenal?

BASE DEC14 SHOULD THEN BE CALLED POULTER'S DOZENAL. I CAME UP WITH THAT NAME (cause I'm actually making a base DEC14 counting system called Poulter's Dozenal) AND I'M GONNA FORCE EVERYONE TO USE THAT NAME FOR BASE DEC14!!!!

@@dustmodebros that sounds like something that would be enjoyed by biseximals...

Unbelievable

Get out

Unbelievery

I was trying to figure out why the name “triquinary” was bad, and “biseptimal” good. Then I remember decimal.

@@felipevasconcelos6736 YOU CALL BASE DEC14 "BISEPTIMAL"?????? CALL IT "POULTER'S DOZENAL"!!!!!!!! (the joke is that "Poulter's Dozen is an actual term used to refer to the number DEC14)

wait that was for irrational numbers

> Latin roots to symbolize the position of the prime factor base I love this. And it's clear which bases are useful because they'll tend to have lots of 'un': 60 is Ununbiuntriun I think that this makes for an argument to write the 'un' part as something much shorter since it will be used a lot in useful places. Perhaps a single vowel like 'e' or 'o' since it's essentially never used. Also, I think I get a bit confused with your use of 'un'. Even in base 2 it's written as 'Ununtary' but without a base 1 symbol, there's no way to specify that it's 2^1, 'ununtary' looks like 2^2 and 'biuntary' looks like 3^2, but is actually 3^1. This means we need a base 1 symbol. We could just move your system back 1. So now it would be: Un: 1 Bi: 2 Tri: 3 Qua:5 Pen: 7 Sex: 11 Hep: 13 Oct: 17 Non: 23 But in my head I can't escape my tendency to associate Qua with 4 instead of 5 or Sex with 6 instead of 11 (not sex, obviously, that would be inappropriate) So I would argue that we should instead reuse the existing associations (at least until they run out) Eg: Un: 1 Bi: 2 Tri: 3 Pen:5 Sept: 7 Once?: 11 Trit?: 13 ???: 17 ???: 23 But now we find that we need a base name generation system for our base name generation system. Because what happens if we want to talk about 463, the 90th prime? Do you know the Latin base for 90? I don't So it's as though we can't escape the need to have a base. In your case by going to Dec you chose base ten as the base of your base system. But It could as easily be six or seventy, it's just controlled by the number of symbols we've previously come up with. Which is hugely dissatisfying. Unless... if we had a base agnostic way to generate base names we'd be set. So, what's an approach we could take? Well our real constraint isn't letters or symbols, it's phonemes. Well I can only use 44 of them (because I speak English). And of those 44 (www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/44-phonemes-in-english.html) I can only easily distinguish some of them. The difference between the 'th' in thong and the 'th' in leather is hard to tell apart. And of the ones I can distinguish, I can only write a subset of those in a way that's unambiguous when read by a standard english speaker. That really only leaves us with: f, v, p, b, t, d, k, g, s, z, th, h, j, l, m, n, r, sh, ch, ue, ae, ee, aiy, oa, e, u, oy It's actually pretty difficult to figure out how to write the vowels because the 'a' should be read as the a in 'bait' not 'cat', but if you generate a word with this system that looks like "bat" you should actually read it like "bait". That's not nice. So let's choose only the unambiguous letterings. We start with all possible vowel expressions: [['a', 'ai', 'au'], ['a', 'ai', 'eigh', 'aigh', 'ay', 'er', 'et', 'ei', 'au', 'a_e', 'ea', 'ey'], ['e', 'ea', 'u', 'ie', 'ai', 'a', 'eo', 'ei', 'ae'], ['e', 'ee', 'ea', 'y', 'ey', 'oe', 'ie', 'i', 'ei', 'eo', 'ay'], ['i', 'e', 'o', 'u', 'ui', 'y', 'ie'], ['i', 'y', 'igh', 'ie', 'uy', 'ye', 'ai', 'is', 'eigh', 'i_e'], ['a', 'ho', 'au', 'aw', 'ough'], ['o', 'oa', 'o_e', 'oe', 'ow', 'ough', 'eau', 'oo', 'ew'], ['o', 'oo', 'u', 'ou'], ['u', 'o', 'oo', 'ou'], ['o', 'oo', 'ew', 'ue', 'u_e', 'oe', 'ough', 'ui', 'oew', 'ou'], ['oi', 'oy', 'uoy'], ['ow', 'ou', 'ough'], ['a', 'er', 'i', 'ar', 'our', 'ur'], ['air', 'are', 'ear', 'ere', 'eir', 'ayer'], ['a'], ['ir', 'er', 'ur', 'ear', 'or', 'our', 'yr'], ['aw', 'a', 'or', 'oor', 'ore', 'oar', 'our', 'augh', 'ar', 'ough', 'au'], ['ear', 'eer', 'ere', 'ier'], ['ure', 'our']] But then we drop all consonants because we're already using them elsewhere: [['a_e'], ['ae'], ['ee'], ['uy', 'ye', 'i_e'], ['oa', 'o_e', 'eau'], ['ue', 'u_e'], ['oi', 'oy', 'uoy']] Of all those we don't want to use a_e (nor o_e or u_e) because we want to append letters, not have a bunch of 'ate' 'ape' 'ake' etc. plus it would be ambiguous to read with 'are' and 'age'. That gets us to [['ae'], ['ee'], ['uy', 'ye'], as in 'guy' or 'stye' chose 'ai' ['oa', 'eau'], like 'beau' or 'moat' chose 'oo' ['ue'], ['oi', 'oy', 'uoy']], like join, boy, buoy Arbitrarily I decided that from between ['oa', 'eau'] we should go with 'oa'. From among ['uy', 'ye'], as in 'guy' or 'stye' we go with 'aiy' (in other words: naiyther). Look, you can read all of these: spaiyder, skaiy, naiyt, paiy, gaiy, staiy, aiysle, aiysland, haiyt, kaiyt That just leaves us with ['oi', 'oy', 'uoy']], like join, boy, buoy. 'oi' looks like Ron greeting Harry. 'ouy' looks like french, gross. And since it's so close to french let's just choose the french word for yes which sounds exactly the same 'oui' (this means you should forevermore write 'join' as 'jwin' ). Just kidding. 'oy' it is. Now we're done, that's how we get these vowels: vowels = [ 'ae', as in bay, maid, weigh, straight, pay, foyer, filet 'ee', as in be, bee, meat, lady, key, phoenix, grief, ski, deceive 'aiy', spider, sky, night, pie, guy, stye, aisle, island 'oa', open, moat, bone, toe, sow, dough 'oo', who, loon, dew, blue, flute, shoe, through 'e', as in end, bread, bury, friend, said 'oy', as in join, boy, buoy 'u' as in lug, monkey, blood, double ] "Wait," you might say, "isn't that more than the options we started with?" Yes. I don't want to explain, it took forever. Now we could just naively combine these, but 'uoyoaaeee' would be problematic. So perhaps we implement a rule that there should always be a consonant between vowels so that we can tell them apart. But I'm still not done, because if we just combine the words in any way we'll get strings like 'fuk' and 'shit' and 'dik' which will bum you out if they happen to land on your favorite base. Or maybe you'll love it. Nevermind, you'll love it. Ok, so we now just pick a canonical ordering for our phonemes. I'll start with the consonants, let's use a custom alphabetical order: consonants = ['z', 'b', 'ch', 'd', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'k', 'l', 'm', 'n', 'p', 'r', 's', 'sh', 't', 'th', 'v'] Then let's define the canonical ordering of the vowels: vowels = ['oo', 'ae', 'ee', 'aiy', 'oa', 'e', 'u', 'oy'] 'oo' is up front so that it can be 0 in this system. 01 is one just like any system, but in this one you can't have one singular digit (because 'b', 'j','k' etc sounds bad without vowels, but 'oob' 'ooj' and 'ook' are phenomenal) Now we can construct arbitrary numbers, let's do up to 5: 0. ooz 1. oob 2. ooch 3. ood 4. oof 5. oog most importantly, Jan can now easily talk about their favorite base 10, base ooj. I tried to write a python function to return the full list of numbers, but honestly I found it really difficult. It's hard to work with mixed bases, I guess. Can you write a function to return each successive number? Ok here are the first 501: 0: ooz 1: oob 2: ooch 3: ood 4: oof 5: oog 6: ooj 7: ook 8: ool 9: oom 10: oon 11: oop 12: oor 13: oos 14: oosh 15: oot 16: ooth 17: oov 18: aez 19: aeb 20: aech 21: aed 22: aef 23: aeg 24: aej 25: aek 26: ael 27: aem 28: aen 29: aep 30: aer 31: aes 32: aesh 33: aet 34: aeth 35: aev 36: eez 37: eeb 38: eech 39: eed 40: eef 41: eeg 42: eej 43: eek 44: eel 45: eem 46: een 47: eep 48: eer 49: ees 50: eesh 51: eet 52: eeth 53: eev 54: aiyz 55: aiyb 56: aiych 57: aiyd 58: aiyf 59: aiyg 60: aiyj 61: aiyk 62: aiyl 63: aiym 64: aiyn 65: aiyp 66: aiyr 67: aiys 68: aiysh 69: aiyt 70: aiyth 71: aiyv 72: oaz 73: oab 74: oach 75: oad 76: oaf 77: oag 78: oaj 79: oak 80: oal 81: oam 82: oan 83: oap 84: oar 85: oas 86: oash 87: oat 88: oath 89: oav 90: ez 91: eb 92: ech 93: ed 94: ef 95: eg 96: ej 97: ek 98: el 99: em 100: en 101: ep 102: er 103: es 104: esh 105: et 106: eth 107: ev 108: uz 109: ub 110: uch 111: ud 112: uf 113: ug 114: uj 115: uk 116: ul 117: um 118: un 119: up 120: ur 121: us 122: ush 123: ut 124: uth 125: uv 126: oyz 127: oyb 128: oych 129: oyd 130: oyf 131: oyg 132: oyj 133: oyk 134: oyl 135: oym 136: oyn 137: oyp 138: oyr 139: oys 140: oysh 141: oyt 142: oyth 143: oyv 144: booz 145: boob 146: booch 147: bood 148: boof 149: boog 150: booj 151: book 152: bool 153: boom 154: boon 155: boop 156: boor 157: boos 158: boosh 159: boot 160: booth 161: boov 162: baez 163: baeb 164: baech 165: baed 166: baef 167: baeg 168: baej 169: baek 170: bael 171: baem 172: baen 173: baep 174: baer 175: baes 176: baesh 177: baet 178: baeth 179: baev 180: beez 181: beeb 182: beech 183: beed 184: beef 185: beeg 186: beej 187: beek 188: beel 189: beem 190: been 191: beep 192: beer 193: bees 194: beesh 195: beet 196: beeth 197: beev 198: baiyz 199: baiyb 200: baiych 201: baiyd 202: baiyf 203: baiyg 204: baiyj 205: baiyk 206: baiyl 207: baiym 208: baiyn 209: baiyp 210: baiyr 211: baiys 212: baiysh 213: baiyt 214: baiyth 215: baiyv 216: boaz 217: boab 218: boach 219: boad 220: boaf 221: boag 222: boaj 223: boak 224: boal 225: boam 226: boan 227: boap 228: boar 229: boas 230: boash 231: boat 232: boath 233: boav 234: bez 235: beb 236: bech 237: bed 238: bef 239: beg 240: bej 241: bek 242: bel 243: bem 244: ben 245: bep 246: ber 247: bes 248: besh 249: bet 250: beth 251: bev 252: buz 253: bub 254: buch 255: bud 256: buf 257: bug 258: buj 259: buk 260: bul 261: bum 262: bun 263: bup 264: bur 265: bus 266: bush 267: but 268: buth 269: buv 270: boyz 271: boyb 272: boych 273: boyd 274: boyf 275: boyg 276: boyj 277: boyk

@@ConnorMcCormick I also considered using a different set of initialisms, and I was a bit put off with using the Latin roots in two different ways that created a confusing application depending on usage as a prime factorization versus exponentiation or tetration. As for the Prime numbers, the suffix actually denotes tetration (hence the ‘t’ instead of ‘p’). The tetration symbolism denotes the tetration level. In other words how many levels of exponentiation. Base 2 Ununtary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -unt { one level of tetration; or just 2 Base 4 Unbitary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -bit { two levels of tetration; or 2^2 Base 16 Untritary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -trit { three levels of tetration; or 2^2^2 Base 65,536 Unquatary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -quat { four levels of tetration; or 2^2^2^2 Using a ‘p’ for power instead of ‘t’ for tetration, you get different bases. Base 2 (redundant with Ununtary) Ununpary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -unp { raised to the first power; or 2^1 Base 2 (redundant with Unbitary) Unbipary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -bip { raised to the second power; or 2^2 Base 8 (first nontrivial exponentiated factor) Untripary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -trip { raised to the third power; or 2^3 Base 16 (redundant with Untritary) Unquapary breaks down into: Un { first prime: 2 -quap { raised to the fourth power; or 2^4 My original post took me about an hour of developing, so I was too burned out to tighten up the tetration. Eyes get kinda crossed typing on a mobile phone for that long while dragging your mind though concepts it doesn’t swim in often. 😂 I’m a bit burned out now, so I’ll have to go through your response a couple more times to get it settled in my mind better.

@@ConnorMcCormick “But in my head I can’t escape my tendency to associate Qua with 4…” You can. It was difficult at first for me as well, but pouring over the nomenclatures for an hour helped solidify that the first root denotes the nth Prime. I did it this way, partially, to make it an exercise in remembering the cardinal value of each prime number Un is the first prime: Psub1 = 2 Bi is the second prime: Psub2 = 3 Tri is the third prime: Psub3 = 5 As for really large primes…I feel like throwing in the towel and just going base ten, like you said, and just cycle back through with superscripted numerals The Psub90 (90th prime) would be Dec^9 The Psub90 (80th prime) would be Dec^8 The Psub90 (70th prime) would be Dec^7 The Psub90 (60th prime) would be Dec^6 . . . The Psub10 (10th prime) would be Dec. I’ll think on it some more tomorrow night. Cheers 🍻

@@josephcoon5809 Would love to hear your thoughts!

@@ConnorMcCormick damn, that's perfect

the renaming happened several years ago, keep up lol

@@belcavendishny jan Misali doubles down on saying the naughty word, circa June 2021 (colorized)

@@belcavendishny the date is when the footage was released

There are no naughty words in any of this.

@@piethedye3948 Which is not a profanity.

Ah yes, I do love using base IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII (there's 256 I in here)

That way you're just choosing unary to represent your base, which is almost as bad as choosing decimal except for the fact that unary is in a way the simplest and smallest (integer) base.

@@YellowBunny at least it's not just an arbitrary choice

@@YellowBunny It's exactly as bad as using unary for any practical purpose.

But how would you extend this system beyond the natural numbers?

what? that's what it actually is.

It's a lot like a normal base system, but since you have a built-in way of representing negative numbers, no negative sign is necessary. Somehow it just ends up working, like normal bases. E.g., positive numbers up to 9 would be the same in negadecimal, but ten would be 190, representing +100 - 90 + 0, since every other digit is negative

Dozenal gets the job done just as well without being unwieldy

We literally don't have 60 symbols even if we use all numbers and letters

@@DeJay7 1. Then don't demand one symbol per position. 2. Base64 would like to have a word with you.

@@DeJay7 We have way more then 60 symbols. Upper and lowercase give you 52 , and that just with English. Add that to the 0-9 we normally use, and we up to 62. We can add another 38 (If not more) if you count any symbol on the United states keyboard keyboard (like ~). So even without making anything new, we can get to base 100.

10 base iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?

That sound should also be interchangeable with "ee" and "ah". And it also should have to be loud. Mainly that mathematics conferences sometimes have a bunch of screaming, but (on paper) so that it's distinguishable from i^base, e^base, or ("a", if odd) aa^(base/2) (an amount of the lava).

I love this

This is horrendous, make a website

It would be really cool if like, spells were tied to numbers, and you'd learn new spells by discovering new prime numbers

i guess it’s just because hexadecimal is already very popular, like how 17 was sub-optimal not un-hex

hex is very commonly used way to refer to base 16, so that's why it's kept. Same as binary and dozenal. Hexadecimal is used in computer science since any byte can be represented as a 2 digit hex number.

The name for Hex is grandfathered in, like Dozenal, because Hex is already used commonly in Programming, as a way to represent 4-bit binary numbers (the same way "niftimal" can be used to represent 2-digit seximal numbers).

Hex sounds cool

Then maybe make it hexamal

in my screen, pi views as i write this

ok but why not exponary for e

Scrutimal: base sqrt(2) (square root). This allows to name the best irrational base: scrutimaginimal, base i * sqrt(2)

Bimaginal is actually a thing with fans and a Wikipedia page! Although it's listed under Donald Knuth's name for it, "quater-imaginary".

...shouldn't π²/6 be Baselary with an e?

don't be a moron, base 10 is much better

+

Everybody here's a dumb*ss, base 10 is way better than all your lowly bases.

Mathematicians prefer base 10 because 10 is the base of the natural logarithm Computer scientists like to use base 10 because 10=2^4 Ordinary people use base 10 because we have 10 fingers Some people believe that we should switch to base 10 because it has the factors: 1,2,3,4,6 and 10 Some people think that base 10 is bad and thus prefers to convert to base 10 because you have the same advantages but with cleaner fifths.

​@@Anonymous-df8ityou are bad at math

There are uncountably many real numbers but only countably many notations, so there's not much you can do about it.

Bear in mind that in bases phi and phi^2, integers have finite representations, even though they might not in other irrational bases.

@@EebstertheGreat just notate the bases with the numbers themselves, problem solved!!

@@DragonWinter36 You can't give every real number a unique name. There are just more real numbers than names.

Real mfs be counting in inary

Balanced ternary is my fave too! You could just have a rule that "balanced-" added to an odd base 2n+1 refers to a digit set (-n, -n-1, ..., 0, ..., n-1, n). (You could probably expand this to include an arbitrary offset but this at least covers the nice case.) "Balanced baker's dozenal" sounds like a fun base and puts me in the mind of someone balancing a tray of fresh pastries...

@@Tesseract_King it would clearly be another prefix: bal- Meaning everyone can enjoy the numerological wonders of Balker's Dozenal

@@Greenicegod I agree that a bal- prefix could be very useful. But for fun I could imagine a arbitrarily offset base as it's own prefix off-

For example: another name for balanced ternary is negaunofftrinary because it would be an offset of -1

Another example: [-2,-1,0,1] would be negabioffquaternary

OCT31=DEC25

@@angelodc1652 hahaha

And the usual answer, "Yes".

I GET IT

Is that because the ten symbol is used for whatever the number system is named after and it is 3

The world is divided into 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary, those that don't, and off by one errors.

10 kinds of people: those who understand hex, and F the rest.

@@Sylocat 😂

I mean it's kinda important

But what does twelve mean? Sorry for bad English, I am a native English speaker.

@@Zachyshows Twelve means this many dots: ••••••••••••

All according to keikaku

Me, however: Goddamnit, he picked the right one :(