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I just started this so idk about the dark forest yet but what if we are in the dark universes. Opposite of us is a light filled universe and the stars in that place are dark and cast shadows where it's always light and hot. Like opposite of us stars cool off the planet enough for life to start. Theyd have dark speed and white holes and everything is the opposite. That's what dark Forrest made me think of just now
The classic though of “hyper Tec” (meaning hyper space technology) should be considered over the romanticism of any random message in a bottle casted out into the cosmic sea in the form of a probe with too much information.
We might be. Perhaps the berserker probes don't go after mere biosignatures, perhaps they wait for a technosignature of a certain level to engage. After all, we only commit genocide against ants when they become a nuisance. Untill they do, we watch them, we study them, but we do not try to communicate with them.
Listening to this, with its multiple speakers, and thinking of the years of long form interviews you have conducted, it makes me think you could create compilations of different interviews on an individual question you’ve asked multiple interviewees. I personally would find that interesting.
I'm in the camp of people that think announcing ourselves could be risky. Much as Sagan said "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known" my thought is "Somewhere, something terrifying is waiting to be known"
I fully agree. We have no idea what they might be like. It could be the worst choice we ever made. It could also be the best choice we ever made, but we won't know that unless we actually reach someone and they respond. I think it's reckless.
I think of the unnoticed colony of ants, thriving and multiplying for a couple years, until a couple of them are noticed in the kitchen. At the moment of discovery, the fate of the entire colony is sealed.
@@theobserver9131 I agree. It’s almost like playing Russian Roulette for great riches on a telescope. Well, except we have no idea how many cylinders or bullets there is.
Yeah but what ab awesome way to die. Would you rather just live another boring 40 something years working 9-5 and dying with a bunch of useless medical ailment or get enslaved by extraterrestrial ai bots the breed you like farm animals and put Lazer dick shocking punishment and have you doing manual labor in a bio dome in Jupiter's moons
This was a major disappointment. The Dark Forest idea is very serious and central to this messaging thing and cannot be treated with the naive approach these people do. One of them even hinted that advanced aliens should be peaceful and kind as chimpanzees, which in reality are vicious creatures with ruthless societal structures. We're screwed uf we take this approach.
Yes its worry simpltons like this might actually, keep trying to give our location away. Theres very little we could do to defend ourselves from someone with interstellar travel. They probably wouldnt destroy us either, just put us to work some how or use us as a resource for biological fluids for instance.
You’re a freaking moron, did you know that? They didn’t say chimpanzees were peaceful, they said that about bonobos, and how humans are more like chimpanzees, as we too are violent. So, you based your whole tantrum on a comprehension error. Congrats.
If some alien civ could throw rocks or lasers at Earth or even travel here and are within reasonable distance to do it they already know all about Earth.
@@channelbree Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if we are being observed and I'm sure most civilisations will be benign or neutral, I want to err on the side of caution.
@@channelbree I wonder how many "intelligent" species have been exterminated because they thought that way. We know that we don't know what 80% of the Universe is made of, so we clearly cannot know enough to bet our knowledge against extinction.
"A positive passion for the future" is not a valid reason for this. I'm with Hawking; shouting your presence to the unknown is foolhardy at best - with all of us potentially at stake. Who would contemplate this but those who care about naught but self-aggrandizement and faux immortality by having their names on it? Go Away.
Definitely..in the distant future every living organism in the world could be cursing these narcissist's names for bringing absolute extinction to the entire planet
If we can find the other stars which formed alongside the sun by some means then perhaps they would make good targets to direct a signal at. The logic being that some of our sun’s sisters may also have conditions suitable to support life, or even a mature and stable ecosystem like ours that has developed a technological civilisation?
Yeah, if the creation of life had to do with a certain mix of ingredients, our sibling stars could be the best place to look for life. Or, at least life like us.
Question are we just looking in tge wrong part of space its massive beyond most comprehension and why do we focus more outside of our galaxy than our on shouldn't we try to cover and search closer that further away also if we are looking back in time how do we know these things are still there realistically if earth is preset time and everything we look at were looking back are we saying we are the only ones that are in the now
Exactly this is one of the big questions with life because you can have the Earth being uniquely favourable for life, or the solar system being uniquely favourable for life, or the sun and its siblings being uniquely set up for life. I also wonder whether anywhere in the depths of the galaxy a habitable world has been seeded with ancient earth microbes and if one day we detect a planet with a biosphere and don't ever realise that the life on that planet is actually related to earth life.
If we send a message that presents us as a threat or contradiction to their dogma then spending the energy to stamp us out would be cheaper than waiting for us to get them first or letting the poisonous ideas spread.
I'd assume since it's unlikely they'd ever be able to translate one message sent in any earth language we'd be sending a message of prime numbers and mathematical equations.
@@HellCatt0770 but the vast majority of mankind doesn't purposefully go out to the forests to annihilate the entire population of bears either and in this case you're talking about having to expend massive amounts of valuable energy to travel dozens to thousands of light-years to accomplish a task that isn't even affecting you
Fascinating conversation. One thing I will say, Stuart mentioned something like the klingon empire would be highly unlikely because they'd have killed themselves. I mean really, the answer to that is we just don't know. I'd like to believe a civilization that survives and is space faring would shed its violent way because that produces survivability, it could very well be likely, but we don't know. There could be civilizations who love themselves and peaceful among each other, but consider other races as an inferior afterthought. The point is, it's hubristic to make assumptions about the culture and behaviors of theoretical alien civilizations. There may be some merit in needing to be careful... even if the potential repercussions are thousands of years down the road.
Perhaps the people in this podcast didn’t read the “Three Body Problem”, but it was explained that the masters of the Dark Forest are interested in eliminating possible competitors before they grow to be a threat.
The Three Body Problem is just propaganda for the Great Wall of China projected into the future. "Beware the unknown, because it is definitely malicious. Grrr." The "galactic war for diminishing resources" scenario is so implausible due to the slow speed of light that I don't seriously consider it as a legitimate risk. By the time you find out an adjacent galactic empire is doing something you might not appreciate, thousands of years will have passed, and thousands more will pass before you can respond. Galactic war is simply not a thing that will ever happen. Even across billions of years, response times of millennia are inconveniently slow for a necessarily fast-paced event such as a war. Wars will always remain localized events because of this.
Great book, not only does the book describe the dark forest, but Cixin Lui also provides an excellant analysis as to why this could be true, via Ye Wenjie's axioms of 'cosmic sociology'.
It’s disingenuous to declare the motive of destruction as ‘too human’ but not apply the same standard to the motive of curiosity. In fact, it’s impossible to think of a motive outside the human experience.
Frustrating reading all of these comments talking about sending these messages being “too risky” because we don’t know what to expect. Putting aside that Earth has been a biosignature beacon for billions of years, should we also have not developed spacecraft at all for fear of what we may eventually find? Should our ancestors have not built ships or migrated throughout the continents or even left the safety of the trees for the ground because it was less risky? We’re human, we have to take the risk
It really bothers me the laughter, the nervous giggling that these skeptical scientists give when they mention aliens or faster than light travel. It's a very ugly tick they use to distance themselves from the notion that they could possibly take seriously the possibility of it existing. Even Stephen F. Hawking took out seriously, who is this kid to laugh at it?
All these so called scientists have the arrogance to presume they know it all. No room for the thought that other cultures' have developed along different lines. Science even in my grand kids' lifetime will be unrecognisable. De grasse tyson syndrome, they'll be the laughing stocks, eventually.
It’s been drilled into the heads of many thinking people that legitimate discussion of these things can’t be had without acknowledging and mocking how “outlandish” they are.
We should be sending warning messages and making it very clear that nothing should visit us. The man and woman should be holding weapons, wearing armour and we should be bluffing about our technological capabilities.
I think the simplest solution to Fermi paradox is that life is really rare, intelligent life is really really rare, and that technologically advanced intelligent life is really really really rare. We are simply the only space faring race in the observable universe, and while others might exist elsewhere in the universe they're spread so far apart that they just are beyond our capabilities of detecting them.
I wouldn't speculate about observable universe. At best you can speculate about our galaxy. It is up to 400 billions stars, but they are somewhat close and can be observed in reasonable detail unlike most of the galaxies.
Personally, I think it's a crime to be sending messages out to extraterrestrials. We have no idea what they may be like. And the results could affect everyone. So everyone should in on the decision whether or not to do it.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 with a very weak signal that dissipates to the point of being noise before it goes far. These people are talking about sending powerful concentrated signals that would reach much much further, and aiming those signals at likely homes for extra terrestrials.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 I know we are already detectable to any one close enough and looking. But we really don't need to be cranking up the volume and waving our arms in the air so to speak.
@@theobserver9131 yeah there was a graph I seen somewhere that showed roughly how far our broadcast signals have travelled, and it's such a tiny distance on the galactic scale as to be negligible
Too much about the behavior of alien intelligence is extrapolated from ourselves. I think there is only a very small handful of constants that we can presume and even that's shaky ground; heat that can be controlled to discover metallurgy, maybe water as a biosolvent, access to the planetary surface to discover astronomy, etc. Beyond hypothesizing the basics, we can only guess. The simplest answer to the fermi paradox is time, distance, and rare goldilocks planets.
I'm sorry, but these idiots have to be stopped, no matter what. Imagine the arrogance to decide, for all of us, that humanity's existence should be put on the line.
So we send new picture. Old picture bad. Man waving. Very bad. We send picture with woman waving as well. We no want aliens to think us transmysognblahblah's. The things that some people prioritise is mind boggling. I really don't think aliens would be interested in the 'concept' of alphabet people or toxic feminism. Maybe the borg do . . . . you are an 'l' you work in the reactor core, you are a 'g' you are a borg lolipop -man- person I hope the rest of the video improves.
I can never figure out why when sending out signals its always across the galaxy. The purpose it to see if someone answers. I wouldn't target anything farther than maybe 15 light years. Closer is easier, less power and people who send the signal should still be alive if there is a reply. The budget required to listen forever for a reply is crazy. Build new antennas, upgrades, human labor.
@@ronalddecker8498 Investigate and report whats found. The people can be warned along the way, so when a big surprises pops up, people won't care. I think politicians are once again the big problem.
@@ronalddecker8498 I think simple messages to keep bandwidth narrow and power high. The final message welcome to Earth approach with deflector shield on high!
We have been inadvertently sending signals into space since Marconi first transmitted across the Atlantic on the 12 December 1901.Signals should be all over the Milky Way by now. Hope the aliens suss out the Morse Code?
@@salkeld571 Maybe 100 light years at best and those are very week signals non directional. Its easier to see us optically than radio detection, my guess. Which means anyone that can see the Earth probably knows someone is home. They just need JWST version 3 or 4.
@@ronalddecker8498 there’s the hubris. We’re barely out of the trees but you say with certainty we’ve got it all figured out to the point it’s impossible for that signal to be detected. You’re so sure there’s nothing more to learn that you’ll gamble the whole planet on it? Seems like a naive and arrogant assumption to make just to start a conversation about self reflection. Bear in mind as well that it’s pointless - people open to the idea are already reflective, unfortunately the decisions are made by selfish people who are not. The course of history right now is being decided by Vladimir Putin and his ilk. I doubt he’s going to be pondering his navel long because these people fired a cheery wave into space.
Growing up in the forest this was always my theory. The "Three body problem / Remembrance of Earth's Past" is a horrifying twist and one of my best reads on the topic
Can't understand a lot of what the first guest to speak is saying. Too fast and poor annunciation. I did catch his WOKE message about the woman being subservient based on the fact she wasn't waving. That is a HUGE leap in logic and quite asinine honestly
The TV signal is too complex (it's one of the most complex analog signals) and would probably degrade too much to be successfully decoded given those distances. AM Radio, on the other hand is really simple and easy
So what your saying is "Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall" is a bunch of gobbledygook but there are aliens with 35 years of Rush Limbaugh cassettes like Grateful Dead shows?
No matter what, the human race has finite life span. If we survive 1000s of years, we will have evolved into something post human. Most likely, partially or fully machine based.
As someone who studies these specific scenarios, it is advisable to be observers, so far if there is life, they haven't shown to be hostile, as of yet, but inaction also can mean a bunch of other things too. Untill we reach warp tech, it would be best to keep to ourselves, if we can't find agreement in our petty issues like religion and politics, then then then decide for us.
These people are clowns and less respectable than brain washed religious fanatics. At least some religious fanatics don’t force everyone else to go with the program that might kill us all. they have 0 proof this is safe. Especially unelected ones. Their worse than cult leaders encouraging mass suicide by forcing this on non believers of their childish and dangerous curiosity. Please, anyone prove me wrong.
@@EventHorizonShow I'm so bad about making live events, but I'll try to remind myself this time beforehand and we'll see how it goes (/◡ ‿ ◡)/ And my short, really simple follow-up after having listened to the full episode is...yeah, _I loved it._ *Just so much.* All of the guests were a treat to listen to, I loved all of the questions, and I enjoyed every moment of the show as a whole. So a _huge thank you_ again, to John and everyone else involved in the show & this episode, and I'll just leave it on this one last note. I am beyond grateful for everything that goes into this show, and I just want to make sure you know how much it's appreciated. 🪐🌌☺️🖖🌒🚀
What a medley of guests! What an engaging discussion!!! Having a beacon in space can be a flip of a coin: things can go amazingly (Ala Star Trek) or terribly where an aggressive race may wish to eradicate us.
Man listening to the beginning of this made me have this really realistic feeling of being on a space ship traveling through the galaxy. I get that feeling every now and then and I love it. Like I feel like I can close my eyes and imagine looking out a window to the stars flying by and it feels amazing. It's so strong too. I feel a slight breeze and it makes it that much better. Maybe we are all flying to the next planet and we are in cryo having this amazing dream of our old lives on earth before the fall of society and we made it out. Lol crazy I know
Is the answer to the Fermi paradox simply that light just isn’t that great for galactic scale communication, soon lost in the background noise. To be heard requires such powerful, long term signal that building it is too expensive to be viable.
There is no "Great filter" so that should make the whole thing a lot easier. We really dont need a "Fermi paradox" either. This "great silence" is just that... Silence. Thinking life is rare. Thinking life that runs its own space program, almost infinitely rare.
Really enjoy comments like yours where someone has all the answers. Can you tell us more? Looking forward to knowing the secrets of the universe from Captain Context.
@@EventHorizonShow Thats the thing. I cant really elaborate on it. As long as we have a sample size of 1. Any Fermi paradox or great filter we imagine, would be based on so many assumptions on top of asumptions that it would be guaranteed to be wrong. Whats wrong with life simply being rare. I mean... I think the microscopic chemical processes that happens inside cells... Is probably as universal as the formation of stars and planets. Would be weird if all that happens just here... But even on this planet where every cubic inch of dirt, water, and air, contain some organic matter. Even here, life that runs its own space program is ultra rare. And if we were an intelligent species of dolfins, if we lived in a planet with 3 times the gravity, if we didnt have an ecosystem that gives us oil, if we had a raging, turbulent amosphere 3 miles thick that prevens any kind of fligh. If our air was too thin to fly in... There are WAY more reasons not to colonise space than reasons for doing it. What if you are an intelligent tiger-like species that grew smart as a way to putsmart your prey. Your highest aspiration in life is 5 square miles of huntingground. Why would such a species want to go to space. Or even build a camp fire.
I read their publication recently and never thought I'd hear their voices! Thanks for this John! This is by far my favorite episode to date. I'd like to know where I can follow these scientists for any future updates they may have I do think what isn't being considered here is how hearing about another alien civilization might lead to self-destruction though. I can't really unsee that possibility after reading Liu Cixin's Three Body Problem
An idea. Record the audio "offline" on their computers and ask them to send that audio file after the zoom call. Even better, send them 25 dollar condenser mics for MUCH better audio quality, like the Tonor. The content is always high quality though :)
@@dr4d1s We do local recording when it's possible. Have to remember we are ASKING for these scientists to spend time even coming on the show, and not everyone is familiar with audio recording. In the future will be sending mics to guests that are repeatedly on the show and may need one.
@@EventHorizonShow I get what you are saying but computers literally have a built in audio record function as do phones. If they can figure out how to get their microphones working, it's literally clicking a record button. Just tell them, "we have had issues in the past with data being lost. Could you please record on your end?" Scientists will understand data being lost.
That's great to hear. There are some computer users that struggle with pretty much everything that is outside of their daily use. Now that I think of it, it'd probably be 30 min extra hassle and frustration. And they have tight schedules. Understandable.
I believe that our current methods of finding life will most likely only succeed in finding less scientifically developed life forms, because life that is more developed will likely have already found us, and either hidden thier presence, or introduced themselves.
Really fantastic conversation, JMG and guests! 😃 About "how would aliens think", we need to remember that, to get to intelligence and technology, they also need to go through evolution, as we did. So, to find an isolated group in our own planet would give us enough information about that. And we already found some. Anyway, stay safe there with your families! 🖖😊
@@ronalddecker8498 Exactly! There's a really interesting history about an American evangelist who came to Brazil to try to convert indigenous people... But he ended up returning to the US as an atheist. Because this people, the Pirahã, had absolute no concept of god and they only believe in what they can see and so on. And there are many more histories like this all around the globe... Pretty fascinating!
I think the best message we could send would be, “You are not alone” Not only is it a great doctor who reference but it’d be a factual statement to anyone listening and is completely neutral in nature.
I think there is a big flaw in the Fermi paradox! It assumes that an advanced civilization would need to colonize a galaxy! But if u take us for example, i don’t believe we would ever need to colonize our galaxy! With anti aging, transhumanism, etc, we would have enough space on just a few planets
@@EventHorizonShow such a fascinating topic! I personally love the silurian hypothesis! I don’t believe u did a video on this! But i strongly think its possible a far older, much more advanced civilization might still me here on some form
@@EventHorizonShow People often forget this, and it's really hard to say the galaxy isn't littered with probes from alien civs (relatively speaking). We just don't know and may not for a very long time if that is the case.
Great episode, JMG! "Monty Burns" (Steve) is a new Patreon on your main channel! For all we know, aliens are watching us on "EarthTube". We've gotta be great entertainment for them.
Lol all fun and games till the We see a silver droplet approaching past Jupiter. Jokes aside i think Humans should maintain silence and just observe because i doubt in 93 billion light years of space…we are the smartest kids out here.
Thanks. One problem is that, while a single human can imagine long-term plans, it's very difficult to get lots of humans to think about the same plan all at once. We are a product of evolution, and long-term planning is not something evolution really does. This is one area where we need to evolve beyond our current selves. tavi.
@@joebahneman9098 Fair enough. Biological evolution is one thing; humans evolving socially is another. But I do think that humans will have to do both before things truly change for the better. In this case, I feel one leads to the other. tavi.
I'm not sure it's a great filter at all, because if we are aware of it, and predict its impact, then it takes a lot off its greatness. we have a good chance to cope with it, and even if we don't then other civilizations either should have copped with it as well, or avoided it altogether.
I liken "announcing" our presence to joining a new online community, which we have all done, and many times too. We have learned that it's better to lurk and watch what happens, see who is who, work out the etiquette, before making a small contribution. Even then the results can be "off putting". Here, "off putting" corresponds to civilization ending. "Seriously off putting" is extinction. Don't. Just don't.
I think it doesn't actually matter for a number of reasons. If we think about life as having the potential to eventually produce a civilization that may cause undesirable competition for our hypothetical dangerous super civilization then the potential of Earth to create such a civilization should have been known to anyone close enough to matter for hundreds of millions of years. Since life eventually lead to a technological civilization here we can pretty safely say that either there is no monstrous civilization out there or if there is they don't see potential emerging civilizations as a threat. The point being that any entity with the power to effect us almost certainly knows we are here already. As for the message, it could only be a surprise to civilizations that are around our own level and in that case they can't suddenly show up since we can't even regularly visit our own satellite body. As for civilizations that want to wipe out all other life, it would be far easier to to just engineer the galaxy in such a way that life just doesn't evolve in the first place. You have all the resources in the the galaxy to do it, the question is what is the advantage of waiting for sentience and then stamping it out as it comes up. It's a lot easier to rid yourself of termites by spraying around the building so that the don't arrive in the first place than it is to wait until they have eaten up part of your house to decide that you should do something about it.
too many assumptions you no nothing about life outside earth, dont bet our safety on guesses, oh they must be like this or that, you dont know and possible couldnt even understand.
I know right 3% wouldn’t that mean in 33 days we are all going to get nuked 🤣 perhaps in the next 33 years if he meant 3% this year? Either way it’s dumb where on earth did they pull that number from?
John, could you possibly invite people like Martin Kornmesser, who make the illustrations and graphics that you have in your B roll? I think it would be an interesting show.
Or we're not looking in the right places We only look at what sparkles, if something doesn't glow we don't know to look that way We've only actually looked at 1-2% of the sky, never the dark "empty" patches of sky _between_ the bright stars & galaxies If advanced aliens actually existed, and simply didn't actively try to twinkle and telegraph their location on the sky, we would be overlooking them Every ultra-long, ultra-sensitive "Deep Field" exposure has revealed thousands of never-before-seen galaxies previously too dim to be detected with our current observatories
To have "laws of physics" would make sense if they covered 96% of the known universe. But we only discovered around 4% so we have a lot more to learn before we can set the laws in stone
Would they want to talk? Sure. Maybe we are ants, okay, so some ants said “hey, how’s it hanging?” who thinks we’d simply never answer? This especially applies if we are the only other civilization they’ve encountered that is capable of communicating. If not, then they aren’t the only one either, what are the odds that no member of any civilization would be interested in a chat?
I find the pessimistic attitude these guys have about the human species a little bit strange. We are living longer than ever before, our technology has helped us adapt to be able to live almost anywhere on the planet, population is increasing. Just about any single metric you could use indicates a thriving species.
@@EventHorizonShow I mean, applications for self teaching are great but promoting an application for mental health professional services is beyond expectations.
Instead of waiting thousands of years I’ve got a better idea, send our fighter pilots who said “we see these UAP’s on a daily basis” with a message using Morse code to communicate.
Great topic, I have so many comments....lol. what if they are watching our tv shows? Dont you think they would perceive arriving here as being a threat to thier safety, I mean, who will be the first responders to an et arrival? The military of course. And most likely, we will perceive the highly developed technology as threat since we don't understand it, and respond as such. At least, that seems to be what happens on tv and in movies.
Seems to me an important question that has to answered before ever even considering sending a message is this: How powerful must a signal be before it becomes indistinguishable from the background of the universe? Can we even send such a powerful signal? What X sized receiver antenna must the the recipient have to pick up a signal of Y strength at Z distance?
why do we want to send messages into space, when we even can't establish a stabile internet connection to have good audio to listen to? boy, it's 2022, not the 1950s.. >:(
Never thought the science of communicating with potential aliens across the vast emptiness of space/time could be turned towards how awful we are in destroying the planet. Good to know
@Bronski Turboski It's a basic trait of life and it's difficult difficult conceive any sort of alien intelligence not engaging in conflict of some kind. Furthermore we also assume that such a civilisation is inherently unified or has a singular mindset, culture, political structure etc.
@Imperator Caesar Traianus Hadrianus Augustus especially when there has been war observed between different tribes of chimps. And if a species is able to advance technologically it is fair to presume they were apex predators at some point as it would be nearly impossible for that level of creativity without being top of the food chain
They've convinced you Earth is a smoking ruin, have they? Bah! If we, ourselves, were in half as good shape as Old Earth, maybe we wouldn't be mutilating our children. Earth, herself, is pretty and spry.
Interesting conversation, but I do have to disagree with your guests, John. Vehemently. They're making a lot of assumptions about the nature of the potential recipients of that message of theirs. There is no rule that says an alien civilization has to be some kind of benevolent forward thinking utopia. Which kind of civilization would be more likely to pick up the message, given it's behavior and distribution throughout the galaxy: A friendly ecological-pacifist one living in free love communes, taking only what it needs? Or an aggressively expansionist one actively looking for prime real estate to colonize and exploit and potential threats to stamp out...? I vote we keep our collective trap shut and our heads down, until we're no longer a single planet species and have some kind of deterrence against unprovoked aggression. Engaging in METI as we are now, is practically _asking_ for a relativistic kill vehicle to the face.
Well as far as keeping quiet goes, I think that's a horrible idea. Look at it if they had to travel at subliminal speeds, they see our planet, through atmospheric analysis, they realize the planet is not only habitable for colonization, but probably has massive resources. So, the chief scientist looks for signs of intelligent habitation, and we masked all of the signs, so, they tell the bosses it's a resource rich planet devoid of sentient beings and they get a go for launch. Huge equity and years are invested in the venture but, as they approach,they realize we're here. The entity that sold the mission exclaims "no, no,nO,NO!!!! Are you kidding me? I'm so screwed, the shareholders are going to be pissed. Hell no I'm not going down like that! Fetch me the primate spray. And if any of you talk , you can kiss your bonus goodbye." And humanity gets to quietly exit stage left. Let's make some noise y'all
Dr. Jiang doesn't seem to have much confidence in Breakthrough Starshot. Lightsails traveling at 20% -30% of light-speed won't take hundreds of years to reach Proxima Centauri. It is more like 20 years. Of course further star systems could still take hundreds or thousands of years.
Indulge me S.V.P. I have been convinced, by this channel and others, that the universe may indeed be flourishing with microbial life. However, what a frolick is the thought of 'people' living in the next star system, just over there. Imagine the path of events to follow such a discovery. How random is general evolution? Is it far more simple a thing than we suspect or is it as complex as a big city transit system? Imagine the communication efforts, the excitement of it all. How similar would we be, would we even recognize each other as children of the cosmos or would we be a truly different things, from which we need security and a sense of safety? Taxes will not change; unless they are to go up. Mortgages and loans will all stand and interest rates will do what they always do; make us pull out our hair. Will we be able to sell them on commerce and wealth if they have no concept of it. Will they apply for Visa cards, will we send them pre-approved Master Card applications? We don't need aliens to change into that ideal creature and society we think we ought to be, we just need to start acting and behaving like that ideal then, we are the aliens with solutions for a better world. Still, I wonder: If there is a race of people on a planet just over there, did they start the road to civilisation by making beer? How big of a solar sail does one need to send a six pack of 'Phenix' from Vancouver Island to A.P.? Hay(!)... We could just send a bottle of ale with a flashy label displaying some math problems and a map....ya, no eh.
I can't imagine how these people can presume to know and understand more about space and existence than Stephen Hawking! What's the odds of inviting Adolf Hitler over for dinner 🍽 as opposed to Indura Ghandi? About 75 to 1. And that's being conservative.
If this planet/solar sys finds a.n.other like ours prepare for trouble as... well you seen the films😕🤕💀💀💀💀 Intelligent like us looking for other homesteads....
I have always find scientist talking about aliens frustrating. Most talk about them thinking of us like children or this and that. They are aliens they will not think like us. They might laugh at us for thinking global warming is something we effect. Or, they might laugh at us for thinking we know how physics work. We don’t know because they evolved in a completely different environment.
Ruddy heck! I'd hate to be stuck next to Dr. Jonathan Jiang at a dinner party, or on a long flight? We are doomed to destroy ourselves, hit by comets, etc. Plus I seriously think this idea that some science commenters cling to that intelligent life forms will see us as ants just plain daft.
Was really looking forward to listening to this but the audio is horrible… please please check the audio before you start recording?? Love you guys, amazing work … thanks :)
To me it makes sense that traveling between stars is just so resource and time intensive that no biological organism ever pulls it off, even if theoretically they have the tech to do it. That doesn't explain why they wouldn't send out tons of self replicating probes, though.
Why dont you just mimick a pulsar, when they go to look they realise it's an odd signal, you know (because there isn't one). everyone can understand that, right?
What is the point of sending a message out? The best response to messages sent out is no response. Any response would be incredibly disruptive and could cause a lot of harm. We should not send out any information that could identify us. The risks are too large.
I read a science fiction story where a big alien warship shows up on course towards Earth -at the end of the story they find out why it's on its way to Earth -the aliens have misunderstood the message on the Pioneer probes as a cry for help and have sent the warship to save us from a nonexisting enemy.
Both the terms "time" and "budget" are human constructs and also our greatest "great filter". A truly enlightened intelligence would have moved past the ideaology of economics, which is nothing but the selfish goal of enriching ones self over the species as a whole. They would simply decide if something is achievable and just do it for the benefit of their species currently experiencing the moment of existance.
Yes this is the biggest argument against just trying to hide. We are detectable and if any civilisation wanted potential threats wiped out they could have done it easily already. What earth does have is life. Which could well be the rarest resource in the universe.
