A review of the “Carnivore diet” | Peter Attia, M.D. & Stephan Guyenet, Ph.D. 

In my experience the people I’ve seen trying this diet don’t do it for weight loss. I actually have seen more women trying to heal from gut problems, skin problems or from anorexia with this diet and the anekdotes are quite compelling.

I started the carnivore diet two months ago, although I could lose the weight I mainly did it to see if it would help reduce the fibromyalgia pains I have been suffering for many years. I was diagnosed with entire body chronic pain fibromyalgia. The pain was so bad that very morning when I wake up I was disappointed that I was still alive. I hated being alive because my quality of life was horrible. Since i started the carnivore diet, I feel amazing, no more awaking up stiffness and pain, I have energy throughout the day. I can shower and bend over to wash my legs and feet without extreme pain. The carnivore diet is boring and tiresome eating meat all the time. But when I think about going back to eating just a little vegetables/carbs with the meat, a sudden flashback of the pain I've experienced for many years pretty much stops me from actually doing it. I have lost 11lbs that was exciting too! I may have to stay on the carnivore diet the rest of my life to stay pain free but it's better than the medications the doctor was prescribing me that never helped. BTW, I tried the ketogenic diet, it didn't help reduce the fibromyalgia pains at all.

I am carnivore 6 months cured my very high blood pressure (165/90 at it’s lowest) now 120/80

I was mostly vegetable eater and some carbo's with a little protein, fish, chicken for the last 30 years and I was getting sicker and sicker little bit at a time. I went to carnivore 4 months ago and many many metabolic diseases have basically gone away. I have not lost much weight because I was not overweight but so many symptoms have gone away. I am finally free from food and feel alive for the first time in my life eating carnivore. by the way I am 67 yo male.

I tried out of curiosity and for body recomposition but that first night of carnivore was the first night in decades I did not get GERD at night. That alone was enough reason for me to stick with it

I’ve been strict carnivore for 2 years. I lost 45 lbs, cleared up all my stomach issues, reduced all my inflammation, and I’ve never felt better. I’m in my mid 50s, I take ZERO meds, and I feel like I did in my 20s. I was paleo before this but it wasn’t until I cut out plants that I cleared up every issue I had. I will never go back to eating plants or any carbs at all.

I think conversations like this show how little the "experts" know about nutrition. Every nutritionist I spoke to, when I told them I'd eat nothing but meat, most said to me, you'll be fat and sick and don't do it... Nutritionists have no idea what they are talking about... at all...

As a lifelong athlete who suffered from pre-diabetes and over 20 other health conditions, despite lean body mass, on a "healthy whole food plant-based diet", on 12 years ketovore and 4 years carnivore my weight did not change (though it is now locked in to my ideal performance weight). What DID change was improvement in my recovery, my sleep, my athletic performance without injury, and resolution of over 20 health conditions (some life-threatening). Meat is the only food which provides ALL human nutrients in ideal balance and full bioavailability without concomittant toxins that are predominant in plant foods (it can be argued that for many of us carbohydrates themselves are toxic, and certainly unnecessary for long-term health). I suggest that those really interested look up Drs Shawn Baker, Ken Berry, and Anthony Chaffee.

Carnivore diet is one of the most interesting topics to me, thanks for sharing!

I'm having great results on the Carnivore diet. I've tried every diet out there over the years with no success. I was in so much pain from arthritis and bursitis and lots of inflammation and was walking with a cane and now it's gone and no more pain and no more cane. I've been on it for about 3 months. I have lost around 20 pounds so I'm happy about that. Who really knows anymore what is really good for us. All I can say is I'm off my cholesterol, blood pressure and anti-depressant meds and feeling good. Blood pressure is normal which I check almost everyday at home. I plan on getting lab work done to see where I'm at health wise. I had a series of lab work done in January and my results were in the normal ranges so it will be interesting to see what if anything has changed. I had bad experiences with doctors years ago who did not know what was wrong with me. After suffering for several years I heard about a wonderful doctor in Houston who knew what was wrong with me on my first visit. So I lost faith in the medical industry and doctors years ago. Even more so since covid. Covid was given to people by doctors and scientists working in labs on stuff they had no business working on in the first place. No two doctors agree on anything. When you have an appointment they want to rush you thru the appointment. Write you a prescription and tell you to watch your diet and exercise. They know little to nothing about diets because they are not taught that in medical school. Just to write prescriptions to see if they help but they only mask the problems and most drug aren't good for us anyway. A prime example is the covid shots which are killing people and changing their natural immune systems and causing all kinds of health issues for those who got the shots. Thank god I had the common sense not to get those shots mainly because of my distrust in the medical industry and pharma companies.

Dr. Saladino isn't strict carnivore though. Doesn't he eat fruit and honey? Also, one of my friends put her lupus in remission. After she started healing she asked her pulmonologist what her prognosis was. And much to her surprise he said he didn't know...because he didn't expect her to live! She's doing great! One year carnivore.

What book is the one being reviewed?

I follow the opposite advice put out by the medical and health institutions and my health improved exponentially. Meat-centric eating saved my health.

I am 37 y woman, I lost weight for the first time since 1 y and feel amazing, my fastin BS on keto for years was 110, on carnivore 80-90. I don't care about the lipids! By the way I am able to go to the gym and habe a loz of energy

Dr Attia is making good progress in the new medical community paradigm,. Unfortunately after going through 8 years of medical school indoctrination it's got to be pretty hard to look at new information that contradicted it.

Like it or not human beings developed over hundreds of thousands of years eating 95% meat. I understand the whole idea about not having variety, but as far as from a health standpoint "why would it not be healthy?" And no I don't want to hear a bunch of crap about LDL cholesterol blah blah blah which is all been completely disproven and basically remains an issue because of all the Statin pushers.

So much evidence suggesting the lipid cardio model is flawed beyond repair, and yet even very intelligent thoughtful people are still hung up on LDL as though it’s the sine qua non of cardio disease.

A “balanced diet” is a decent concept, except... Consider for a moment that perhaps the modern food diet has allowed a certain amount of bad, non-food additives to creep in, including various agricultural “sprays” that get into our “fresh” food. So applying the principle of balance means we’ll be getting a “balanced” amount of dubious (at worst poisonous) substances along with our real food. Also consider that pretty much any botanist worth his salt will tell you plants have their own natural toxins and natural pesticides which they use to ward off predation. Not to mention anti-nutrients which protects their seeds (which we eat a lot of in the form of grains like flour, rice, wheat products). So eating a “balance” of these is equivalent to eating a balance of disadvantageous stuff. Some ppl say that’s ok, if there’s antinutrients then just eat MORE to overcome that effect. Or use supplements to counteract the antinutrient effects. Perhaps some health problems are a result of undernutrition and eating nose-to-tail Carnivore corrects for that. These things are probably not a problem for ppl with good tolerance and a good ability to clear out the whole gamut of toxins and antinutrients from their body. But if you’re not one of those ppl, oh boy! Trouble. I hypothesize that this is the reason why ppl with autoimmune problems and chronic conditions who go Carnivore get relief from their symptoms in under a year (usually weeks or months). It’s not always known what the offensive plant thing was (was it the cause or was it simply exacerbating things?), but it’s interesting that eliminating the entire category of toxin-laden plants seems to resolve the health issue. “Balance” can sometimes be a red herring because it makes one think that eating a variety means you stay away from toxic food. Not so much. I think what it does is allow the body to get rid of a previous toxin while our mouths have moved on to the next toxin on our “balanced” diet list.

you mentioned Dr Paul Saladino's high LDL levels and why did you fail to mention he has a calcium score of zero? if you're not familiar with the carnivore diet why talk about it at all and potentially mislead people?

Similar notes to full interview: I love your work, Peter. However, this is the first discussion that has provoked some "notes": 3:32 Plant toxicity is a minor thought in carnivore circles, but is not a core tenet. A more common theme is that "plants are not necessary". Not sure where the aversion to tap water comes from. I have not heard that from any (knowledgeable) carnivores. Is elevated LDL or ApoB "dyslipidemia"? Lots of questions about that. As you say, it is treatable if you believe that it is. Muscle meat, eggs, animal fat (including marine), collagen (cartilage, skin, gristle) , and organ meats provide almost all of the nutrients that we know that we need. Maybe some dairy for calcium. Most carnivores supplement electrolytes, including potassium and magnesium. What about polyphenols and other phytonutrients? Evidence is plentiful but weak. Many carnivores will eat a salad or other veggies occasionally, but do not focus on them. What about fiber? Stephen Phinney points out that the BHB from eating low-carb feeds the same gut bacteria that eat butyrate from fiber fermentation. In other words, fiber may be unnecessary. Evidence? Not strong either way (beyond Virta). Needs more study... much more. It is true that SOME carnivores reject veg because of slightly-toxic lectins. As you say, current thinking is that they might provide some hormetic benefit. Maybe. What about vitamin C? There is some in liver, and it appears that we need less if we do not eat plants. Needs more study, but nobody reports scurvy from carnivore diets. So, really, it comes down to evidence. The evidence that a ribeye, an egg, and a can of sardines provide most of the nutrients we need is strong (and highly satiating). The evidence that we must eat plants is weak. _(From the full interview)_ 1:31:49 As you say, it is hard to overeat on fatty meat (ribeye). For many carnivores, THIS is the main benefit: *_carnivore is the most satiating diet you can eat._* (The effect is more than just "uninteresting food" or being "tired of eating".) _Regarding Weight Loss_ Both insulin/carbohydrate and energy-balance models apply. *_Insulin must be low enough to allow fat burning, while calories must be cut._* 2:19:00 "They are not mutually exclusive"

Because of Peter’s endurance background, he’s very much oriented to carbs. That’s typical for endurance athletes. All the people I’ve seen do meat based diets have performed well in all sorts of sports, including endurance sports. People who are truly fit, don’t spend a lot time fretting over their LDL.

Dr Paul Saladino, AKA carnivore MD is challenging the whole notion of LDL discussing many studies in his podcasts.

Is there any way to negate the effect of Saturated fats that increase apob?

For some reason, most of the comments read like "I was a vegan and had all the health issues one could have and then tried keto/carnivore and I completely recovered from all my health problems and I feel great". Considering only a very low portion of the population is vegan makes me curious how representative they are of reality. So I want to try it... ... And, yes, I just switched to carnivore and I am 100% feeling better, already. Wow :)

Until now I haven't seen ANY evidence that in the context of low-insulin, zero or near zero fructose intake (and not activated polyol pathway like in Primary Aldosteronism) LDL-C / LDL-P / ApoB presents ANY cardiovascular risk. Sorry. There are 7 "stages" of atherosclerosis (actually there are even more phases before, which are not considered by the conventional paradigm to be a part of atherosclerosis like glycocalyx injury) and in every single one of these phases either high-insulin/insulin resistance, high blood sugar or fructose in the blood play directly a role. If Apo-B plays a role, it does it only in one of those phases of atherosclerosis and even there the atherogenic dyslipideamia can be seen as a direct result of insulin resistance... So personaly it all comes down to insulin/sugar; if someone really gets insulin down, I don't care about lipids AT ALL...

Dr. Attia , is there a plant that is completely safe to eat? (Maybe lettuce?) Do you have a botanist or plant toxicologist friend you could ask? As far as I know, fresh meat seems to be the safest food on the planet. I’m asking on behalf of ppl with sensitivities and chronic conditions (of which I am one). If, like me, you’ve had several so-called chronic conditions that went away when you ditched the plants and concentrated on animal foods, well, you just don’t look at plants as benign 100% healthy food anymore. Not all of them are, not all the time, and not for all people.

2 weeks in and I’m telling you there is something to this diet.

Two guys talk about something they are not sure about and explore dubious associations on both sides of the argument???

Also, Apo b is just a marker of LDL transport so if you have a higher LDL particle number you're going to have a higher apo b. if you have low inflammation and are insulin sensitive it's fine. If you're a diabetic patient with lard on Abdomen then very different story.

How you treat apoB?

Food for thought!!

Thank you! :)

Cholesterol numbers change you could get blood drawn every hour and get a different number how does he not know this

Carnivore for 8 weeks. Feeling stronger (physically and mentally) than ever. The main difference between Keto and Carnivore is that with Keto I had to eat a lot of veggies and that is boring. Just because they were supposedly good for my health. I really doubt that I am going to get bored with 1.5 pound of Prime Ribeye every day + 7 egg yolks. It is literally delicious my food. And I don't have to make any effort to like it.

Tap water is toxic? WTF carnivores aren’t saying that.

I wish we had more studies on this diet. I have been on it for a week just out of curiosity, and plan to continue for at least 3 months. So far I feel good, but we will see. I don't care which diet it is, I just want to know what is the healthiest.

I wonder if Peter is aware of and comprehends the Randle cycle.

yes, Peter, u are biased on plants diet... have saladino on and see what happens...

I did for my crippling form of rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, gut issues & tendonitis. I’m on my sixth year. All of those issues are in full remission. I was plant based for years and after everything else failed I decided to give it try. I have never felt better. I just mainly eat beef, eggs, butter/ghee and drink bone broth and water. I season only with salt. I vert rarely eat some seafood, poultry & pork. All lipid panels are great. All blood is great. CAC is zero. My workouts are the best ever. I want to thank Phil Escott & Lisa Bailey who helped me so much to try this weird & strange 3 month experiment that is now on my sixth year. I’m one of your members & love your new book Outlive. Thanks Dr. Attia

It's not the plants I'm worried about but the IgF-1 in meat.

5 years carnivore myself and never looked back, and that's after 5 years of keto! It works very well for me and I can't think of any health issues personally. I eat beef, lamb, eggs, various fish and add in dairy at times. I eat once a day and feel great.

Dr. Peter; perhaps you should do a podcast on the carnivore diet? or do a podcast with Doc Saladino

Not terribly worried about the high LDL as long as you are metabolically healthy. Dr. Paul Saldino talks about this at length. Additionally Dr. Aseem Malhotra speaks on this in detail. Its really interesting to watch. My LDL is higher going animal based but my triglycerides are low, HDL is high and my fasting insulin is less then 4. I think high LDL, while not being metabolically healthy is a red flag, but not otherwise.

I love your work Peter, but sorry to say you and your guest have this horribly wrong. At some point you are being dogmatic about science when you don't follow the story. It's abundantly clear that what is taking place here is that the diet is remarkably effective at eradicating various syndromes/diseases which are inflammation born. What we are seeing is that people are trying it often out of desperation and necessity and finding success. It's not an idea, or people pontificating about mechanisms that is driving this, nor is it a fad weight loss diet. This has to be fairly acknowledged at the start, otherwise you are simply adding to the narrative of presumption and judgementalism that exists around this which will unfortunately prevent some folks from trying it and experiencing the evident benefits. LIke vegan and keto this must be given it's due as worthy of exploring at least as a short term intervention. I look forward to the day when you approach this properly and help explore the potential long term risks associated some of the mechanisms around protein consumption and raised LDL, then you will be contributing instead of undermining this important area of intrigue.

If carbohydrates are not an essential nutrients then why eat them?

This "experts" says toxins in food are not necessarily bad for us?? Thanks for that opinion but I'll stick to food that isn't toxic; you can take your chances with the toxic stuff...

They seem to totally miss that Paul Saladino/Carnivore MD emphasizes eating a lot of carbohydrates through fruit. Edit: They also seem to miss Paul Saladino's thesis that LDL has historically been a terrible indicator of cardiovascular health and that a high LDL is not an issue. Insulin sensitivity is a much more accurate predictor of cardiovasular and metabolic health. Admittedly, I'm not a doctor and don't fully udn erstand all of the nuances, but I really want Peter or someone lese in this sphere to dive into Paul Saladino's theses and explain wh they agree or disagree with them. Paul is really convincing that LDL cholesterol is misunderstood in modern science and that the research on it is severely flawed in both subject pool selection, and diet implementation. I'm inclined to agree with his diet of meat, organs and fruit as the optimal diet for humans until I can find anyone that deep dives why that is or isn't the case...

I think most low carb diets help reduce appetite, and wt loss comes about by less calories in vs calories out. And generally don't need to count calories either as the appetite reduction from the diet is enough to put you in a negative calorie balance, unless you are trying to get to 3% body fat for a Bodybuilding competition.

what kind of people can eat Only Meat day after day after day? I tried meat Only and got sick and no fiber caused digestive problems.

I believe your guest also stated that the carnivore diet has zero carbs. Dr Paul Saladino the Carnivore MD does in fact eat carbs, ie. fruits and honey. I invite you to watch his podcasts. btw, I have no affiliation with Dr Saladino.

There is a difference with the two Dr's you refer to, Paul Saladino has does eat some fruits and honey too. Baker is about 99.9% beef only. Think he has eggs too but nothing on the carb spectrum. Maybe that accounts for the difference in the Lipid profile.

I’ve never heard of not drinking regular water, on the contrary. Eat all meats you can have and just regular water.

I'm plant based. Not because I have some crazy campaign or mission to shame people that eat meat and to start sneaking into slaughterhouses to expose what happens. It's simply because it works best for me. I first gave up alcohol. Then dairy. Then cheese. Then meat. All naturally from giving up alcohol. I can't say this is duplicatable. This is just what happened to me. I was just concerned about what works best for my body. The more I do look into this information, the more I really do wonder what truly is best for humanity with what we eat.

At 3:40, Attia finally admits he is just biased. Took you long enough lol. Then right after that moment, he tries to ask a confused question about plant defense chemicals, as if he hardly knew what he was asking. You knew exactly Peter.

Thank you for all you do, Dr. Attia. Could you do a segment on weight-loss for people who had a complete Thyroidectomy?

For me the Carnivore Diet, was to bring up my overall levels of Health. And I would like to say it hit my goals perfectly. Sure losing weight is sounds cool, but actually my muscle tissue increased. Weight loss is fine sure. But that’s not the reason to go Carnivore, if you want to bring up your overall levels of health it will work.

Why don’t you both try carnivore diet for a couple of months and add to the anecdotes?

BTW when I was plant based besides my autoimmune issues I had 13 bouts of kidney stones 😤😤😤😤

I have been keto for 6 years and most vegetarians would kill for my lipid numbers.

Paul Saladino is not a carnivore. He used over 400 grams of carbohydrates. He eats honey. The Randle cycle is what he’s activating. I’d suggest you interview Prof. Bart Kay. A few others would be Dr. Anthony Chaffee, Dr. Ken Berry & Dr. Shawn Baker. Saladino is not what anyone should be basing a carnivore way of eating on. It would be like basing a vegan diet with a person who still ate 400 grams of meat. That’s nuts.

Paul Saladino is a fruitarian, as well. Not a carnivore anymore. High LDL out of context is not a scare. It must be looked with the full context of full lipid analysis.

Saying that people on a strict keto or carnivore way of eating think "everything else, including tap water, is toxic" is just silly. Keto and carnivore are more about the benefits (and the first one is definitely not weight loss, that is just a side effect) than the non-benefits of "everything else." Not everyone is a super-responder and will show extreme elevations in LDL cholesterol. Also, who says elevated LDL cholesterol is necessarily bad? The man in the white lab coat? Conventional medicine is at least 20 years behind. Have there been MRAs done on a large sample size of long-term carnivores? Do carnivores have more CHF than those who eat mostly plant-based diets? Not every person will respond positively to carnivore, but many, many people do. from great labs to abundant energy to clearer thinking to stable moods. The list goes on and on. This interview sounded more like a negative review of carnivore than of an open-minded discussion.

Did he really say tap water was good for us? These guys.. come on

I’m a hobbyist athlete in my 40s, switched to plant based and I love being leaner, quicker and healthier. Do what works for you!!

Only small oxidized ldl is a problem

Your Ldl goes up as a result of losing fat weight.. It doesn't mean you're unhealthy, your blood is simply transfering it to become ketones..

I think Attias kind of cavalier attitude about the carnivore diet is a little off putting.

I agree with the comments that Dr. Attia has done a disservice by not researching the topic more thoroughly, at least as portrayed in this short video. Dr. Attia has been moving away from the ketogenic diet over time (which also generally includes the "zero carb" Carnivore diet.) Dr. Guyenet has long had a more anti-ketogenic and pro-plant based slant, so there is no news on his stance. I think that the comment that the Carnivore diet is helpful and appropriate for SOME people at SOME times is the most accurate depiction of ANY diet in general.

Too bad he doesn’t get carnivore. I’m in my fifth year and thriving.

When Peter is talking the last time after the 10 minute mark.... Where is the common sense. Why would something that is curing so many different issues for people, like IBS, excema and other autoimmune conditions and resulting in fat loss with muscle gains be harmful in the long run? It goes against common sense. You're basically asserting that a diet which has been miraculous for the obese will have trade offs thst are even worse? I don't believe it for a second. If you are obese, the biggest risk to having a heart attack is being obese, not numbers on a chart.

These two guys are clueless

I would really prefer if Peter brought on Paul to discuss this rather than someone reviewing Paul's book. Paul has an astonishing depth of knowledge on this subject, and he has the proclivity to admit when he's wrong. He's not following nor touting a strict carnivorous diet anymore, and his reasonings as to why he has done the dietary changes he has done is well put together. I honestly think Peter is intimidated by both Paul's depth and breadth of knowledge on diet, as well as his low agreeableness. He's not afraid to keep well respected scientist's feet to the fire, and that scares people.

They get better ob a very carb-restricted diet - this is complete crap

4 minutes into this video and I've seen nothing of actual value with respect to the diet, just smug mischaracterizations.

People, aka Dr. Peter Attia, who can eat a high amount of calories because they are active, like me, are the ones that I want to listen to for good health.

It seems to me that extreme diets are best for treating actual problems, which I do not regard being overweight on its own as being. Just for weight loss, there are so many other options that don't demand the adjustments the narrow diets do. One has to be to some degree an outlier to do anything about health and weight loss, but these really demand a high degree of standing on one's own, which people give lip service to, until they are the only one at the party not eating 90% of the food. We can't use either of these guys as representative of the average Joe. And even Peter gave up keto because, I htink he said, he plain missed vegetable dishes.

I always knew it wasn't my fault..nom nom nom ..that's such a relief (grabs sandwich) nom nom nom

Saladino looks 30 something , is full of muscle and does a ton of excercise . I'm 63 , 250lbs with a fasting insulin of 10 , a triglyceride / HDL of 1.9 and an A1C of 5.4 and i excercise 5 hours a week . I'm going to introduce fruit if i get can improve my fasting insulin . I'm 4 months into Keto and have lost 40lbs . My objection to Saladino is that people like me need to stay in ketosis to use my fat as fuel and he has none . He sure makes a lot of sense and has good success with fruit but not for me at least at this point in time . I also am reluctant to give up ketones as a bipolar . I bet i can do 50 to 100 grams with the amount of excercise i do and keep the ketones at .6 and above . good luck to you all

it would be great if you had paul saladino on

Attia looks like such a snob the minute he started talking in this video about carnivore

Baker's cholesterol is almost 300 iirc. Not normal.

Before seeing the video; the ability to accumulate fat has been a genetic advantage throughout most of human history.

Stephan makes some interesting claims regarding Carnivore. Tap water is not an issue at all. I had my doubts when I first started Carnivore, but I feel great. Information regarding cholesterol are covered very effectively by Dr Chaffee (a practicing Neurosurgeon in Australia). Paul Saldino is a bit of a zealot, and does not conform to a complete Carnivore diet. I would, given that he is found to be incorrect on a number of basic system function issues, take his advice sparingly. Instead, look int Chaffee, and Ken Berry, who are much more research based, peer reviewed research based than Saldino. You also have to be very careful about which studies you are using to support your arguments. Many studies are epidemiological and do not accurately reflect causality vs correlation. Many studies steer the reader towards a false causality by siting a very weak correlation. Often cherry picking data and operating from very limited populations over highly restricted times. There is mounting evidence in the clinical community that the correlation between high LDLC and atherosclerotic deposits is very weak, to that point that the ADA no longer follows that particular recommendation. Also, many studies are paid for by big pharma, or the Sugar industry, and specifically designed to support those two industries. Educate yourself, find experts willing to use science rather than emotional assertion to support their thesis.

Balance is the key. All these fad “diets” come and go and have for a very long time. Balance my friends. I eat meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, carbs and some oil and have been doing so my whole life. Stop fretting over these silly fad diets and get off your phone and work your body.

Saladino is not carnivore!!! He it's tones of fruit and honey. If I'm I'll I prefer to treat the cause - too much carbs - not symptoms with you pills

It's kind of like diarrhea. It's in your jeans.

You're definitely coming from a bias perspective Peter. Have an open mind.

The meta-reviews I have seen discussed say yes, you can lose weight...but the long term outcomes for health are very bad.... Whole plant foods are the healthy option overall...