Adrenaline. Also, fire burns away the nerve endings. Depending on the type of burn, you won't feel anything, not immediately. Much later, that's when the constantly changing shooting pain comes.
@@ultureI think you are confusing Missandei with Melisandre. I don’t recall there being any mention of Missandei being a follower of the lord of Light. If I remember correctly, either Missandei mentions the Naathi god of butterflies, or perhaps it was in the World of Ice and Fire book. Either way, Missandei most likely is a follower of the religion of Naath.
@@sunkist1309 The idea is that some of these theories (and, I'll be honest, this is Preston's worst one, which is saying something considering #LemonGate) are based on little more than extrapolating wild conclusions from minor mistakes in the writing. This whole series is going to be well over 7000 pages (on paperback) when all is said and done, plus a shitload of side material. Mistakes happen.
About Quentyn's smiling: remember, Tywin never smiled (except at Joanna) and his corpse's decay and stretched muscles led to his unsightly smile as well.
Josh Lilly Actually, now that you mention it, Preston DID once make an off-hand reference to his belief that Tywin is actually alive and occupying the body of Ser Robert Strong or something. So take that as you will.
The fact Quentin’s corpse is supposedly smiling when in life Quentin rarely smiled actually supports the idea he died in the fire. Burnt or desiccated bodies always display lips that are severely pulled back from the corpse’s teeth. All things considered, you should actually expect Quentin to look as if he’s smiling.
Quentyn not feeling pain from the burns is either a really good sign, or a REALLY bad sign. No pain makes it most likely that any burns were the most serious 3rd degree burns that damage nerves and are often described as producing minimal or no pain. Also, if Quentyn had any sort of burns over a larger area of his body than his arm, it is very reasonable that he would survive the initial burn event only to die in the following 24-72 hours due to hypovolemia caused by burn shock. The only way Quentyn could've survived what was described in the books is if he managed to replicate whatever event or force that protected Dany inside Drogo's pyre, in which case no pain is a good sign, I guess. So either Quentyn suffered burns and is dead, or he's got Dany levels of mojo and avoided all injury. I don't see any middle ground at all here.
frutrace but Danny didn’t burn because of the blood magic involved in the ritual. Though those with Targaryen blood are known to be heat resistant, but not to full on fire
Year late to the party but no duh, we have seen what dragon flame does, it is like a sixth degree burn minimum. Man felt no pain as he realized he was burning to death.
Preston, the theory is awesome, but I just wish to say that we have an exanple of a person blasted with dragon flame and surviving. And that person is Aegon Targeryan, second of his name. "... he was broken and burnt in places so badly that his armor had fused on to his flesh..."
I really wish Quentyn is alive... He's already one of my favorites in the short time since his introduction. I think most people can relate to him in that most people try their best to not disappoint their parents or other loved ones.
I never understood why some people find Dorne compelling or why they like quentyn. To what end does he fake his death? To avoid punishment, maybe? Where is he? What is he doing? What could he possibly come up with to woo Dany?
For the Q&A: I seem to recall (a Tyrion chapter perhaps, or something from the WOIAF) that the dragon chooses its rider, and not the other way around. We also know from Tyrion's conversations with Brown Ben that dragon's can sense when someone has the blood. Dany only finally got to ride Drogon after he tested her with fire in the fighting pit, and approved her as rider upon seeing that she survived. So, the question then: Could it be then that Rhaegal was testing Quent in exactly the same way? He approached calling to Viserion by name. Viserion briefly looked his way, promptly ignored him, and instead Rhaegal approached, and delivered this 'furnace wind'. Whether or not Quent survived it is another thing, but clearly he was testing him as a potential rider, no?
Also quentyn is a very smart meticulous man like his father, so the fact that he believed he had what it took to ride a dragon (aka valyrian blood) then there must be a reason why he thought so. There are still a few questions that remain unanswered by this theory but I still believe/hope that Quentyn is alive.
+DBeiki Indeed, he may have felt he had nothing to lose here. Barristan advises him to go home, and he responds that going home a failure would be unbearable. He suggests it would become his name, his legacy, his identity not just for the rest of his life, but memorialised in history. He was also present when the masters of Yunkai presented their ultimatum to Hizdar, insisting that the dragons must be killed. Why not take one to prove his worth and make his name? His father sent him east for a dragon; coming back with a real one would more than exceed expectations - and he does consider the possibility that Hizdar's clock is ticking, and Dany might soon be eligible once more.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 this is one of the more batshit crazy theories if Quentyn is alive than GRRM has jumped the shark for a character no one gives a fuck about
@agnat86 A clash of kings implies jaimes death at catleyns order but in a storm of swords he's alive with brienne, so its not that unreasonable of a theory.
It might be worth noting that in one of Davos' early chapters in ACoK, Melisandre burns the statues of the Seven after tearing down Dragonstone's sept. "The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up her face. A long sword had been thrust through her heart, and its leather grip was alive with flame." Here we have another explicit mention of leather being aflame, and once again it would seem that it's actually the oil used to ignite the flames that is covering the leather grip and making it seem "alive with flame". Unless of course it is an oversight on GRRM's part or that Melisandre's flames burn hotter than dragon flame, but I think the latter unlikely.
Honestly, I don’t think GRRM overlooks anything. The deeper I get into ASOIAF, the more i feel like every single world and sentence is significant. He’s like a movie director in that way- every detail is included for a reason.
@@Whiskerbro He throws theories around like someone throwing spaghetti against a wall - sooner or later SOMETHING has to stick. He's mostly full of shit.
Fuzzy Dunlop than why watch his videos? just to throw shade? At that point why read Asoiaf? Oh because preston’s probably the best versed in George’s collection of work, has the most interesting/unique theories, and most of what he says comes directly from the books or other books by george (instead of some emotional appeal like every other youtuber.) Naturally that’s looney cause grrm is so straight forward right? shit most people here have no clue what they’re reading half the time or how important the 1000 worlds universe is and how they relate to all of George’s work and writing style. Critical reading is fun and majority of authors want people to read their stories critically
Quentyn protected his eyes .. well after passing out due to the fire , the protection is not relevant. The smile Tywin also never smiles , but his body did ..
Thai Breuer she's the real deal. she's blood of the dragon, and born of prophecy (i'm talking about some dialogues in the a clash of kings during her visit to the house of the undying). besides it's been described how burnt quentyn already is. it's not the same scenario imo.
I think Quentyn's death is a beautiful tragedy, and that in and of itself is still very meaningful. It's genuinely painful to experience his journey. Missandei caring for him is one of the most touching accounts in the whole book; even with all the pain and tragedy in this world, there are still people like her who care for others. It seems to me that the beautiful, touching tragedy of his story would be diminished with a fake out death.
Although your argument is compelling, Quentyn's death far too central to the theme of ADWD for him to have not died. A Dance with dragons is about failure and Quentyn's failure to marry Danaerys and free a dragon while getting killed is the most obvious connection to this theme. The TITLE of the book is coined by Barristan Selmy regarding Quentyn's death; "Not all men were meant to dance with dragons". The literary significance of his death is far too important for him to have lived.
@@kyanchambers260 Sure, unless you're on Preston's boat and think he Nettled the dragon, then rode it out of the catacombs (or stayed with it) which is just plain ridiculous.
I mean maybe the failure was Doran Martells? This quest seems meant to fail so perhaps if Quentyn comes back all Darth Vader he'll have incapacitated his son and gotten a dragon he didn't want.
I like the idea of Quentyn surviving somehow but analyzing the temperatures and melting points is irrelevant in a fantasy setting, especially in one where we have already had funky moments with temperature e.g. the melting of the gold in AGOT that kills Viserys. I somehow doubt that when George wrote the chapter he wondered to himself, 'Okay, lets set the whip aflame, oh wait, its leather. Guess it cant burn then!'.
+TheJackFroster He didn't pay that much attention to petty details in the beginning but he sorta does now. Now that half the world is nitpicking and trying to guess the next book. I'm not sure that he would've researched flashpoints that much though. But I can definitely see him considering that leather whips are oiled and that oil burns. And the whole event of Quentyn burning is presented in such a way that it DOES leave room to interpret. And another argument for (at least imo) is that if Quentyn didn't die the story is more interesting. Again, imo.
@@filipferencak2717 "the fire will not have to burn at the object's melting point temperature since the temperature will stack up within the object" That is completely wrong, conductivity will make it heat faster but it won't break the laws of thermodynamics and become hotter from a cooler source.
@agnat86 agnat86 I did say "imo", twice. So, yup. I was talking what I would personally find more interesting. I do agree that the arguments aren't that good. From what I've seen, 90% of theory videos are mostly speculation. Even when facts and bits from the text are used, most theories rely way too much on the personal assumptions of the person that's making them. P.S. Quentyn's death leaves somewhat more room for interpretation than Robb's.
@agnat86 I agree that there are better and worse constructed theories. (I also agree that this one is not among the better ones. I just personally like it. And there is no corpse, so to speak. There is just enough uncertainty to allow for it, even if it's very unlikely.) I disagree that there are good and bad theories. None of them are really "good" in that sense. Every theory make assumptions. If there is no need for assumptions, then it's something explicitly given in the text.
Next time someone aims at my eyes with a flamethrower, I‘ll just shield them with my BARE HANDS...what a grand and intoxicating innocence you have, Mister Preston Jacobs.
Just want to add that the term "furnace winds" was also used in Tyrions XIII (Blackwater chapter) in ACOK to describe the heated wind blast he felt after the wildfire explosion, as well as in Daenerys IX in ADWD to describe the blast of heat she received from Drogon.
"He protected his eyes" you think him putting his hands in front of his eyes is enough to save them from flame, even regular flame would still damage his eyes what do you think Dragon flame would do.
Questions for next video: How does the Quentin Quest fit in with the larger Dornish/Rhoynish Master Plan? Doran is supposed to be a super smart schemer, so shouldn't the Quentin Quest be set up as a win-win by Doran for house Martell, like Brown Ben Plumm's win-win with the sewer scheme? After all, if Quentin had gotten Dany and her dragons, Dorne becomes the Major player in Westeros with 3 dragon/nukes. If Quentyn steals a dragon, Dorne wins by gaining a dragon/nuke ridden by a reliable Dornishman, Quentyn. If Quentin fails, then what? How does that help house Martell? Especially since the Quentin Quest seems to have been set up for failure.
Quentyn's death is far more meaningful than his life, his death was the reason the dragons were freed, and this is important for their contribution to the battle of Mereen and interaction with Euron's dragonbinder, also his death fulfills Quathe's warning about not trusting him, and serves as a motive for Dorn to take "Aegon's" side in the war to come.
There was no need to introduce a whole new POV character, have him gallivant half-way across the world for four chapters only for him to free Dany's dragons. The dragons were already digging their way out of the pyramid. If George wanted to have them freed to join in the battle against Yunkai, he could have just had them burst out of the pyramid at any moment. Also Dorne never had any reason not to follow Aegon. Aegon is Elia's son. Between him and Dany he's the first to arrive in Westeros. He specifically reached out to Doran. The only reason for Dorne to go with Dany instead of Aegon is the secret marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne, which was only introduced as a plot device to kick off Quentyn's storyline in the first place! If Quentyn isn't secretly alive, then there is no plot significance for his story whatsoever. Period.
@@theletterm5425 Thats the point of his story though, Quentyn was brave, Quentyn tried his best, and Quentyn died. It's actually the theme of dance in alot of ways and Quentyns chapters were serving that theme in turn.
DAMN! You know I WEPT for Quentyn while reading the book. I just love Dorne and the Dornish, I really feel they are the underdogs in the whole series, constantly striving to get there, that in itself makes them deserve it more than everyone else and Oh! My! how they work hard for it. Not to mention the blood of the Rhoynars and Nymeria. And yet I don’t think they want to rule Westerose but just want to be at a mattering height . But Quentyn, I thought of as the underdog even among underdogs. The pressure on him to get this right... and yes I was completely confounded as to why would Doran Martell subject his own son to this folly. I really wish he would survive, but then I don't think that would be the case.
I know this is a bit of an old video, but I've watched it a few times during my rereads. I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but the phrase "furnace wind" is actually used during Daenerys' chapter in the pit, just prior to her climbing on Drogon's back. "Drogon roared. The sound filled the pit. A furnace wind engulfed her." The furnace wind seems to be associated with the roar. There's credence to this, due to the fact that the creature is so warm. His blood steams, he's almost hot to the touch. A few sentences later, in the same paragraph, it says: "Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin." Maybe she's being hyperbolic, but I think this sentence reaffirms the theory that she can't be burned. But I digress. From these pieces of information, I think that you are right (even more than I believed before). Quentyn did not die, and that the fire originated because of the oil on the whip. I also think that Quentyn the dragontamer was meant to parallel Dany in this chapter, and could lend to the possibility that he succeeded (relatively).
I just read a Clash of Kings again after three years ( I mainly did it to read the Stannis parts again, so awesome!) In it Bran is seemingly killed. And for a third of a book he is presumed dead, until in the VERY LAST CHAPTER he is revealed to have survived. Well this is not precisely so as Theon's inner monologue hints that there was a body swap, but you have to be quite keen or know to expect it to catch them. It immediately made me think of Quentyn. There is definately something going on with him and the strange looks that his protectors are giving eachother. Quentyn's burning also reminds me of how Aegon II was burned and hurt, but didn't die. Perhaps Quentyn is also slightly injured and is recovering somewhere, perhaps in the same ruined pyramids that the dragons have taken for their eyrie.
Question: If Quentyn did ride a dragon out wouldn't someone watching the dragons flying see a person on one of them? Question: If Quentyn really is still alive and just burnt won't he need someone to treat his wounds? And if so who? Question: If Quentyn really did tame a dragon, how? Yes he has at least one known Taragaryen ancestor (Princess Daenerys) but there's at least a century between her and Quentyn how could that gene survive? Especially since there's no record of any Martell/Taragaryen marriage other than the one that started the Blackfyre Rebellion. Question: Was taking a dragon Doran's plan along? If yes, then how could he be so sure that his son could take one? Also if Quentyn could take one what about the other two wouldn't Dany just use the others against Quentyn and his team out of vengeance for stealing one?
I thought that Quentyn was more or less a cautionary tale from the Author, and from the Mythology of the book... That you cannot literally 'force' a dragon to do your bidding. You have to enter into almost an agreement, or relationship, with the dragon before it will accept you. Regardless if Quentyn is alive or dead, I think he burned (lol) the bridge with either dragon when he showed up with the 'I will FORCE these creatures to do my bidding' mentality. So regardless of his life or death, I don't think he is meant to be on the back of a dragon. The book and TV show have both done a good job of presenting the fact that these creatures have intelligence, and personality, and that they do not forgive or forget easily. Basically imagine Danny's personality in the body of a dragon. How do you think Danny would react to someone attempting to whip her into submission? Would she ever 'forgive' that person?
Well daenerys only bonded with drogon in dragon history of got they only bond with one person at a time and nobody can clam rhaegal. but i dont think he can control a dragon like daenerys but can ride one like jon did in the show
Can't burn my, can't burn my, No, you can't burn my leather whip I have got some leather whip Le-le-le-leather whip, le-le-leather whip I've got some whip Le-le-le-leather whip, le-le-leather whip I've got some whip
I would find this hard to believe but it's entirely possible given who Quentyns mother is, she was a noble woman from the free city of Norvos "The modern Norvos, like Qohor and Lorath, was founded following a religious schism, by dissidents of Valyria who found the religious tolerance of the Freehold intolerable and set out to find or build city where only the "true faith" would be practiced" Dissidents from Valyria who were less tolerant huh? That sounds an awful lot like some dragon worshiping nobles from Valyria got sick of free religion and upped and left, meaning nobles from Norvos likely have the correct genetics for dragon riding. And of his mother had the correct genetics it's likely Quentyn does as well.
This is a little too far-fetched. I think you're probably right about the oil fire. But if true, that, along with the lower level of heat he got, would give a plausible reason why he didn't die instantly from the dragon fire and instead was just severely burned. If one part of theory is true, it seems, it undermines the motivation for another part of it. You also cite the passage where Gerris is unshaken by the deaths of his other friends and gives them eulogies where every other word is a lie, but seem to think there's some other motivation to when he does it for Quentyn. As far as we know there was no reason for him to lie there either, but he does. And the rest is most likely explained by Arch and Drink trying to minimize their role in a plot gone bad and save their own skins. Finally, the most significant reason I think this isn't right: I think this clashes thematically with what both Quentyn's storyline and his role in the greater Dornish storyline is all about. Quentyn's storyline is thorough de-romanticizing of adventure. He sets out with his friends with high hopes for adventure and finds out that adventure sucks tremendously, and isn't as pretty as the songs. The boat smells bad, he loses friends in entirely mundane ways, and his grand declaration of love to the queen is turned down because she's in a tricky political situation. So he cooks up one last dramatic gesture to win the queen's heart, which would work in a song, and of course it backfires, because dragons aren't so easily tamed. The larger Dornish storyline is about Doran Martell trying to win a war with minimal Dornish bloodshed (because it's always the children who suffer), and how doomed that endeavor is. Myrcella is the first casualty. Quentyn is the second; both part of the cost Doran pays for the game he's playing. I think both of these storylines would be made worse by Quentyn surviving.
Quentyn survived and fought the dragons off with a giant Valyrian steel dildo. This is made clear by Dany being slightly more tetchy than usual in the passage previous to Quentyn going to the Dragonhold. We can assume this is due to the combination of Daario being absent and her Valyrian steel vibrator- an unconventional gift from Illyrio Mopatis- going mysteriously missing. Quentyn also seems to favour shortswords as demonstrated by his time as a mercenary, where a shortsword is the standard weapon as a new recruit, which Quentyn was. It seems likely that due to Dany's dildo going missing and Quentyn favouring weapons around the length of a forearm, Quentyn survived by smacking Rhaegal and Viscerion around the chops with said dildo. Also, Palpatine is behind it all.
no. i'm simply not buying it. the smile on the deathbed? rigor mortis. furnace wind? you don't have to be so literal about it. hot wind from the wingbeat of the dragon (the place being hot due to flames abound). the moment before quent realized he was burning? adrenaline rush. this is a simple case of overanalysis, in my opinion.
+raykin You're right. He lost me when he started going on about why Drink's sword was out and why it wasn't bloody. But generally speaking, it's not implausible that Quentyn made it out alive and riding a dragon, it's just that: 1) You're not supposed to go off-screen for an act as dramatic as dragon-taming. You have to show it here and now, not have someone retell it six years later in the next book. 2) You're not supposed to build up an unnecessary mystery about whether or not a minor character is alive. Quentyn's chapters were just padding out the book after the FFC/DWD split and we all know it. His part of the story is a nice little sentimental episode about a kid who tried to prove himself and failed miserably.
Burning cures skin into leather, the skin around the lips curls back to cause a batman joker like smile as a result of skin shrinkage from intense heat
I thought this was clear over analysis as well but he has a point with all the lying so we know that if not what he said. At least something else had happened in the pit.
Basma .x. Lying to the old guy that's keeping you captive and trying to rose-tint your role in a colossal fuck-up is a perfectly natural impulse. It's a stretch to say they're lying to improve Quentyn's rep - he's not trying to marry Selmy, after all.
In consideration of Doran Martell's master plans (as providenced by The Order of the Green Hand) , I do see Quent as just a pawn he cast the dice on. (much like Oberyn) Doran wants control of the dragons for his own ends, not necessarily Daenerys herself, and at most sees her as a means to that goal.
Everyone who 'died' at their own POV, never truly passed away (except for prologie and epilogue). Catelyn, Jon, Bran. So maybe Quentyn is still alive. Only people who died on other people's POV are truly dead: Ned (Arya's), Robb (Catelyn's), etc.
Awesome video! I liked Quentyn and his chapters but this certainly makes everything a whole lot more interesting. These videos always get me to constantly search for hidden meanings and clues within everything whenever I'm reading the books again...
A couple of alternative ideas that perhaps you haven't considered: 1) Is it possible that the Dragon fire is more than just regular fire? And I mean beyond just its temperature; what if the mechanism by which the dragons spew fire from their mouths involves a natural, bodily-produced oil? Wouldn't that make a lot of sense, from a biological standpoint, if such a creature were to really exist, that it would function in this way? Obviously you've looked a little closer than I have at the burning scenes so you would know better than I whether there's any basis for this idea, but for the hell of it I would even take it a step further and theorize that *IF* this were demonstrated to be the case, it might even have had some role to play in wildfire's alchemical origins, which still remain very mysterious. 2) Is it also possible that Quentyn simply wasn't located directly in the line of fire (so to speak)? I mean depending on your proximity to the flames in question it might be possible to get severely burned without dying instantly. All the moreso if dragon fire operates in any comparable fashion to wildfire (as you pointed out, the way it moves from his whip to his hand to the rest of him). Just a thought. 3) Speaking of the weirdly slow and painless manner in which Quentyn's burning was portrayed...... I mean yeah, I noticed that too, and it is a little odd but it could also be chocked up to him being in a state of shock, the time-slowing and painkilling effects of adrenaline, which wouldn't exactly be out of character for him. I've always thought Quentyn was a bit like a male counterpart to Sansa; he has these grand ideas from songs and stories about glory and heroism, only to come face to face with a very severe and unforgiving reality. We see this theme all over the place in ASOIAF and because of that it does seem like a pretty natural trajectory for Quentyn's story to take that he would be brutally burned to death, and that his inexperience with real danger would make the event extremely surreal and difficult to mentally process for him. Not that either of these things in any way undo any of the other fishy details you've pointed out. I just figured these were worth considering. One last unrelated tinfoil hat thought: Quentyn was born in 283 AC, during the latter portion of Robert's Rebellion, the same year as Jon Snow and Robb Stark, only a year before Dany, and a year or so after Aegon. Also he was born in Sunspear, which is kind of sort of in the same neighborhood as both the Tower of Joy and Starfall (I know, I'm really stretching). I have no idea whether this means anything, but as a rule, babies born in this period are generally the subject of a lot of theorizing because of all the chaos and intrigue of that time so... I don't know, maybe it's important, maybe it's nothing. Meh, I know, probably not. But worth bringing up if only briefly all the same.
My gut feeling on Quentyn is that he is going to be Martin's "Walter White" character, someone who starts out nice and relatable but then becomes a complete monster later. This would put him on a similar moral journey to Tyrion (the rogue Lannister in the East), and Arya (the rogue Stark in the East). Quentyn would be our rogue Martell in the East, further weakening our perception of the Starks as the sole protagonists. This is of all part of Martin preparing the dragonriders for the Second Dance of Dragons. A Dance which won't be Green vs Black, but Red vs Black vs White. A Dance where there are 3 factions, one for each noun in the saga's title. Song (Rhaegar/Jaqen), Ice (Jon or Bloodraven), and Fire (Daenerys as the last Blackfyre descended from Bittersteel). If you look at the interplay and wider use of colours of symbolism, you start to see what Martin is using these colours for. White is the colour of harsh choices, self-sacrifice, of scarcity, of weirwoods, of the kingsguard's book, or the septa's cloaks, or the snow found across the North and the corresponding loyalty the Northerners have. You can link White to Bloodraven and also to White Harbour as the colour of loyalty and sacrifice for a 'greater good'. Red (as befits a story written by a writer who layers his stories with liberal themes) is the colour of "the people" or of unity. You look at the Red Priests, the Red Keep, the Red Viper's family an they are all about blood and unity. And in some small way a type of advancement. Martin being a well traveled guy would know that red is a colour which outside America is largely associated with socialism or 'liberal rulers'. Black is the colour of authority, of danger, of a link to the magic past or a violent past. Think of the black hands of Coldhands, Balerion and Drogon, the black stone found in Asshai and also the Blackfyre cause. I've said before that having a royal house called *after a Black Sword* is a clear Stormbringer shout-out, especially as the biggest enemy of this family is a magical kinslaying log-lived albino. Oh, and the woman with fuzzy and unclear memories just happens to called "Daenerys Stormborn". And she just happens to be very reminiscent of both Rhaenyra of the First Dance and Daemon Blackfyre. History repeating itself, fantasy motifs repeating itself. And "Martin motifs" repeating themselves, if you look at how Rica Dawnstar and Ananda and Cersei are portrayed. So I think Quentyn Martell is going to be on the black side. I don't think it's a coincidence that there was a knight in the First Blackfyre Rebellion whose name was Quentyn Ball and whose nickname was Fireball. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Quentyn Martell was fostered with the Yronwoods who had rose for the Black Dragon more than once. Start looking deeply at the books and you'll see more of these clues and hints littered throughout the series.
Here's something else to chew on... Jon is close to the Lands of Always Winter (a White magical site). Dany has been asked to visit Asshai (a Black magic site) and her picture is even *right next* to Asshai's entry in the world book. So two characters linked to magical places which reflect their magical colour, and which they are likely to travel to to complete their "quests"... gee, I wonder exactly what Rhaegar was doing throughout 282AC. Because if you look at the timeline Lyanna vanished in the last week of 281AC and Rhaegar did not return to King's Landing until sometime in 283AC. That's possibly over a year the two nobles are off the grid. Was sex with Lyanna really all he was doing for an entire year? Was he completely unaware of the war and the consequences his actions had? If so, maybe that's why he didn't react sooner. Gee wouldn't it be good if we got direct confirmation in a Martin written book of a magical place linked to the colour red, dragons and prophecy which you can travel to from King's Landing in under a year? Maybe one which a rogue Targaryen prince (Daemon) and his scandalous lover with a name starting with "L" (Laena Velaryon) are reported having visited in urban legends? "The sky is always Red over Valyria." - Tyrion chapter, A Dance with Dragons, 2011.
George never writes "Quentyn is on fire." All this HE saw HE was on fire and HE began to scream stuff, it makes it seem as if Quintyn sees someone else burning. Then again I'm probably wrong.
I agree with this theory. But I think it's part of a bigger picture. And the bigger picture involves a baby swap. The young man we know as Quentyn "the Frog" is really Baby Aegon. Young Griff is the original Quentyn Martell, and Septa Lemore is his mother, Melario of Norvos. Doran swapped his nephew for his son at a young age. He used his nephew to pay the blood price to the Yronwoods, and plotted to put his son on the Throne. Both, of course, are of mixed Valerian/Martell heritage.
It could, but there are inconsistencies that lead Preston (And myself) to believe that there might be something more going on, and Quentyn might be alive. Also, if it was just that, it didn't need four otherwise irrelevant chapters dedicated to it.
@@CABRALFAN27 Perhaps the chapters were meant to introduce Drink into the story for some mysteriouis reason. Or perhaps the author deemed this message so important, he decided to dedicate four chapters to it.
It is, and also to dispel that if you have Targ blood you can control the dragons. It also sets up the apparent need for Dragonbinder by others who may want one of the dragons.
There are some flaws in your reasoning: a) Dany's burning was a magical event. Quentyn, as far as we know, doesn't have that protection. The swapping of Mance and the Stark brothers was only possible because we didn't get a point-of-view chapter showing their death from their own perspective. We do get that for Quentyn. We know for fact that he was burnt. b) Missandei is referring to his teeth that seem to smile (as every skull without skin does), since his lips are burnt away. You could read the "Quentyn doesn't smile much" part as evidence that it might not be Quentyn, but it's just as likely that this is just some of the cosmic irony GRRM loves to play around with. c) We know that the man who was found in the dragon pit survived at least three days. Whoever that was, even if it wasn't Quentyn, obviously died of dragonfire. If this was illogical for Quentyn, it must be illogical for whoever really died, too. In fact, since Quentyn does have some Targaryen blood, he might even be more resistant to high temperatures than the others (as we know Dany is, even before the birth of her dragons). d) Perhaps it wasn't initially his flesh that was burning, but his clothing. Cloth is highly flammable and burns very hot - hot enough to cause deadly injuries at the very least, which matches perfectly with the death we see for (presumably) Quentyn. There are also some problems with your version: a) If Quentyn survived, where is he? If none of the Windblown made it out and his friends were captured in the dragon pit, where is Quentyn? Why would he have left his companions in the dragon pit, or, maybe more accurately, why would they have stayed in the dragon pit if there was nothing to gain there? If Quentyn was gone and the dragons were gone and the Windblown all burned, why would they stay and face being captured? b) Even if Quentyn didn't die from Rhaegal's fire, there is no way he wouldn't be severely injured. Even if he had some magical protection (for which I see no evidence), he clearly is in panic. And he's not exactly a paramount example of bravery to begin with. He also has no control whatsoever over the dragons. You think he, half-burned, in shock and naturally rather cautious, would have been able to find a method to bring out two dragons that he evidently can't control and that are abnormally excited because they just fought, like, a dozen soldiers - nevermind that the dragons even frightened him in chains, doing nothing, far away in the dragon pit, with someone who can control them by his side? No fucking way. c) The dragons seem to be interested in the visitors, but they don't appear to be aggressive. Only after one of the Windblown shot at them, they start spitting fire. So why would the dragons have killed the Windblown? Are you suggesting that the Windblown attacked them? That the Windblown decided that after one of them tried and achieved absolutely nothing except getting roasted, they needed to attack as well? I think we're told a bit too frequently how much sellswords value their own life for that to happen. d) If the dragons did attack the Windblown, why did they only attack the Windblown? Evidently, Arch and Drink were in the dragon pit the entire time, so they must have been in the dragonpit during this supposed epic slaughter of the Windblown. Why did nothing at all happen to them? e) If Quentyn somehow suddenly got the courage and ability to control and even ride the dragons, wouldn't it be plausible that he'd do something with them? Like, find and rescue Dany, considering that marrying her was what he came to Meereen for in the first place and proposing to her from dragonback would be something that might actually change her mind? Or at least bring them outside the city so they can't cause any harm and can't be caught again? Why would he let them destroy some random ancient pyramids and make their home there?
Just for further proof of the oiled whip idea, there is a character, one of the Bastard's boys called Damon Dance-for-me, who is known for his greased, oiled whip.
A few Question: If Quentyn is alive and led the dragons out of the great pyramid, where is he/where would he go? Could he be the one to impersonate the tattered prince? (by using his injuries as cover) and finally is his objective still to marry Dany or bring a dragon back to Westeros?
A great video, I thought it was a huge let down when I read that Quent died but this makes sense. We had 5 books so it is about time someone had a dragon other that Daenerys, besides was the meaning behind the whole of Quent's story nothing but to release the dragons? That doesn't sound convincing so he ought to have a significant role to play. His sister almost started a rebellion just because she thought he might take Dorne from her so Quent shouldn't be underestimated.
I never even questioned Quentyn's chapters. I just assumed there would be some important backlash after Doran found out what happened to Quentyn. But after first hearing Preston's theory of Quentyn still being alive, it made sense to me. Glad we got more in depth info here.
Using the melting point of gold as a reference, compute the amount of time a cooking pot would need to sit on a flaming hot fire to liquefy enough to pour over a mans head.
It's called Pathos Preston. That's why he did not die instantly, he was a title character and GRRM had to fill like 100+ pages...and it was friday, and he wanted to go eat some chicken wings....so he half assed it a little.
+Preston Jacobs Love your videos, but sometimes I fear you're just contrarian by nature. Burned bodies (and other more desiccated bodies) can look like they're smiling or laughing because the skin and flesh tightens. Like the plastic surgery-induced perma-grin. Other than Dany's experience (which we know is special and a one time even), burning of the other examples isn't read thru the POVs of the burn victims. Orifices pus when horribly injured like that. Putting your hand over one's face does not protect them from dragonflame. The flesh isn't on fire, it could be oil, but it's really the chemical(s) that the dragons shoot.
Can Tyrion taking Quentyn's place in the show be a proof Quentyn is alive ? Unless the show decides to kill Tyrion ofcourse. Tyrion that is with the Second Sons now will meet Quentyn and the dragons in the books and expose Aegon as fake, 'cos Dorne can't support both Aegon and Dany.
Do you really think he had the sand,or the cunning to pull that off?I mean I realize hes a Martell,a fam known for cunning and intelligence,but any plan involves improv,and I just question if the trio had the wits to pull that off.
The entire purpose of Quentyn's story arc is that he dies in the end. His arc is a deconstruction of a stereotypical fantasy trope (as is Aegon's) which would be ruined if he somehow survived.
+Preston Jacobs Quentyn's arc leading up to the dragon pit makes fun of fantasy tropes like the prince looking for the princess, a fellowship, and the Hero''s journey in general, his arc will probably diverge from this
Not really she has to deal with war and peace, swinging from one extreme to the other, my interpretation of things is that GRR Martin wants to portray who unrealistic these saviors are due to the severe ramifications of their actions, Aegon is a mummer's dragon, a symbol that can be burnt down to ground
Great video as always. What I´ve been thinking about lately is the connection between the Rhoynar and water. Isn´t it really interesting how the Rhoynish called upon some sort of hammer of waters in fighting the Valyrians, Prince Garin calls upon a curse, waters rise and kill the dragonlords, leave behind the sorrows. Then the Rhoynar just happen to move where the other Hammer of the waters supposedly fell, the spot where children of the forest supposedly used some kind of watermagic to separate Westeros from the rest of the world. And decide to hang around in watergardens. Anyway, in the end Valyrian and Rhoynar magic is doubtfully 100% opposite, if the Martells have magical abilities it´s likely the same as everyone´s else, and who knows what Quentyn may have inherited from his ancestor Daenerys. Do you think there is a chance the Martell´s have some telepathic ability themselves, they are a mix of first men and Rhoynar I guess originally, and it seems like some sort of ability to find water in a desert might be really good for fighting a desert guerilla war against dragonriders during Aegon´s first invasion.
+Preston Jacobs The 'nettling' only worked because Nettles was a dragonseed and had the DNA to dragon-ride, just not the egg-in-the-cradle dragon connection. That's why she had to tame the wild dragon with sheep day after day, she had to forge that connection, but once it was made her Targaryan blood enabled her to ride. Quentin has no dragon-riding abilities for sure. I believe your own theories show this. Maybe look into the Nettles history again?
We don't 100% know that you have to be Targaryen or even Valyrian to ride a dragon. I'm sure not every Valyrian was in Valyria the day of the doom. I was going to ask about Nettles feeding the dragon too. But he said he would address it in the Q&A. I would assume Prestons is aware of Nettles lineage, and in the video he discussed Quentyn and fire a lot. My guess is he thinks Nettles did more than just befriend her dragon.
hey +Preston Jacobs , I want to share with you that my husband, an ASOIAF bystander to my passion, just said about you, "he's so much better than Charlie" (coy smile) ;) see you on Patreon
I remember laughing for a second while reading '"Oh", he thought.." Your analysis gives me a whole new outlook. This was very very insightful and so I hope it's true. Not that I was rooting for Quentyn but I hate it when something in a story has been built up and seems to end abruptly leaving most of the story in vain. Keep up the amazing work, Preston!
Ignoring the suspicious details during and after the attempted Dragon Taming, do you think it makes sense for Quentyn to succeed in the context of his overall story and the Dornish story in general? I always thought that Quentyn's story was a critical response to popular YA fiction protagonists like Harry Potter, who are mostly unremarkable on their own but succeed because of luck, more skilled friends, the machinations of wise elders, or 'destiny'. Since ASoIaF is not a typical young adult story, the presumptuous 'protagonist' wouldn't have the usual plot armour. That said, I actually hope he's alive. Quentyn seems like someone who wouldn't just appreciate a peach, but would plant the pit.
I once again am blown away. You read and understand at a whole other level than I . I took it all at face value and I have read the book series two times. So interesting. Thanks again.
Quentyn is one of my favourite characters in the books, so when i read those chapters depicting his death, a huge part of me thought he might not be dead, and I had my suspicions too. So it's great to see a video summing up everything nicely together like that. However one issue I still have is why did both dragons follow quentyn then? I can understand if he managed to mount rhaegal and fly him away but what about the other dragon, viserion was it? Was he just following his brother or was he somehow tamed by quentyn too? And where are those other dragons now? A few days went by after the dragons escaped but theres been no news about either of them.
