This was perhaps the best vid I've seen for a very long time, perhaps ever. Thanks Cory for not cutting corners or for not editing relevant material out, for explaining everything you did clearly. I'll come again. Brilliant.
With regards to the question "Do you carry on with the EICR?" I call the client and advise them that there's very little point in continuing with the EICR as the installation is in need of a complete rewire and board upgrade. I'll invoice them for the time that I've been there and they could put the money they've saved towards the cost of the rewire.
That seems like the only reasonable response - charge them a callout and tell them there's no point doing a condition report because the installation is dangerous and not repairable.
Good point but if testing for an agent, chances are you're going to need to complete the form so they can hand this back to their client. Question is then, are you going to complete the all dead and live tests or just omit these and comment it?
It's probably been mentioned already, but the reason you're seeing so much of the green goo there is the overheating. One of the breakdown products of hot PVC is hydrogen chloride (add water and you get hydrochloric acid). The migrating plasticizer is transporting the HCl down the cable, and the HCl is oxidising the copper. I've seen quite a few older installations with a little hint of green around the end of the insulation, which is harmless, but when it's dripping out like that you've got a problem.
My dad used to do rewires in the late fifties and the first half of the sixties and those old brown Bakelite Wylex boards were the ‘modern’ tech he was putting in in those days. I remember it well as I was his little helper and passed him tools as he ripped up floorboards and put in that fancy new PVC cable and a fancy new ring main.
In US here, yes I've seen the green goo in a lot of older electronic gear, tv' s amps, etc. Also in low volt wiring, intercoms and older pa systems. Seen in some electrical devices and a breaker panel, or consumer unit.
Another comment mentioned the heat adding to the amount of the green goo. While it's not as common in older residential installs in North America, you often do get a little green, although usually its a tinge and not goo. Much more common in electronics where they're not ventilated and run very hot inside. I have the feeling that Canadian/American installs, usually being in much larger panels, and not as much in unventilated/obscure areas like under stairs, etc., has led to less of this type of issue. By the time plasticized cabling became common, we had (for the most part) put stricter regulations in about placement, etc. I wonder about comparative acceptable temperature ranges, too. On 2.5mm (ish, 12 gauge here is equivalent to 2.6mm) we'd run 20A at 120V, whereas I know you'll run 32A at 220V (I know it's a ring circuit usually in that case, so it's nominally lower per wire, but even at 16A and 220V) I suspect your wires are subjected to higher temperatures on a regular basis. Could be that I just haven't seen very much of it, however.
As an old retired dog (engineer/handyman) I follow all you electricians with great interest and I have to tell you Cory when it comes to presentation - you are the best!
Just keep following these videos , and all will become clear. I am a retired electrician and I’m still amazed at what goes on . So basically watch an observe . And never underestimate the stupidity of others. But in the end it takes the skill and knowledge to bring a seance of order . All though in my long and not always successful career . I have above all else strived to do my level best , not only for the client but also for the industry. I never ever gave up , although at times I felt dam close to doing so . My best wishes to you 🤗👍
Really excellent video. I really appreciate Cory’s gentle teaching style. I’d very much enjoy more technical videos like this if he would be able to make them for you?
You can't 'fail' a flammable fuseboard for being under stairs. If it's in the sole means of escape it's a C3, not a 'fail'. Fuses are still perfectly acceptable within regs - except for circuits supplying outdoors or special zones that also need RCD protection. I agree it all needs replacing but that's because of the goo and what it indicates not *just* because it's old or messy. I don't think you can 'fail' on missing CPC to Class 2 either, but obviously you can for Class 1.
@@jaypowell9786 I did say it all needs replacing! I am a landlord and recently upgraded to metal RCBO board even though it wasn't strictly needed - just the easiest way to get RCD protection for all circuits in the most compact enclosure. My point was that flammable CUs in themselves are no more than a C3 even in a means of escape. And that rewireable fuses are still within latest regs. And that CPCs aren't needed to Class 1 lights.
Sorry Jordan but I prefer this style of video. Cory presents more in the style I prefer and it was good instructional/learning content for fairly new people like me. Well done Cory 👍
Fair play Cory, great effort. absolute natural on camera, and great camera skills. Your knowlege is outstanding, and you made the video so easy to watch. well done you! :) Have a great Christmas!
Depends if they are told about it when they are being trained, I was told in college about it. How do you know he hadn't read up on it before going on camera.
@@acelectricalsecurity we could say he reads up on everything just before jumping on camera and therefore he isn't truly knowledgeable about anything ? I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I think he knows his stuff.
@@calvinhale2723 I didn't say he didn't know his stuff, and nobody can know everything, and that's what books are for, referring to and gaining knowledge.
We wire boilers through a fan isolator to break all live poles (including the stat return) where the fused spur is remote from the boiler. It enables the gas fitters to service the boiler and isolate the power locally. Think its a requirement in the gas regs to have local isolation.
Here in Germany it is, all gas- or oil fired boilers must have a double pole switch with a neon indicator in it, so a full isolation of L and N is possible. Must be labeled as "Heating" or "Heating emergency switch".
@@Marcel_Germann yes we have to have a double pole isolator but due to the way our homes are wired in the UK this is quite often in a different room to the boiler and therefore next to the boiler we should fit local isolation for maintenance. But this generally needs to be 3 pole so that the boiler trigger wire is also disconnected.
@@stevecraft00 Control circuits are integrated into the boiler, so if you switch off the power to the boiler you also switch the control off. You can control everything from the boiler itself, or with an external control element which is working with a bus system. This guy here is from 2013: abload.de/img/img_5937l3j71.jpg abload.de/img/img_5938g3j0d.jpg abload.de/img/img_59392ykin.jpg There's a second control unit in the house of my parents, they can control their heating circuit from there. One big boiler for two houses heating and in addition making hot water for my house. abload.de/img/img_59403xko1.jpg abload.de/img/img_5935etjsg.jpg
The shear fact that someone has added to this installation is mind boggling . Sometimes you just can’t get where these installers are coming from. Best wishes to both . 😃👍
So yes leave the installation isolated, but if you're going to do that Cory, isolate the water main (and possibly drain down) as if you isolate the power you isolate the frost protection on the boiler and may invalidate any insurance on the place if the water main freezes and bursts, which you could be held liable as the engineer that last visited. Just a heads up as I know people this has happened to before.
The green goo is actually a combination of copper oxide and plasticiser which is a sign of over heating. It can also become conductive so should not be touched on a live installation. Eventually it will cause the insulation to become brittle so a rewire should be considered. Your spot on Cory
As an electrician in America (O’ahu, Hawai’i) I’ve personally never seen a chemical reaction between PVC insulated cable & copper here. Here we call it NM for non-metallic sheathed cable or “Romex”. Thats our equivalent to your T&E. Most romex in america from 1960 to present is PVC insulated, older cables from the 30s to the 60s was Rubber insulated but the jacket that holds the live and neutral conductors together was made of woven cloth. However the standard from the late 1800’s to the 1940’s was called Knob & Tube (K&T) where individual rubber insulated cloth wrapped conductors were suspended between beams by ceramic knobs. I’ve seen copper conductors oxidize in homes by the sea when left exposed to the elements but never a chemical reaction as showed in your video! In America, grounding conductors for regular household circuits became standard around the late 60’s. However I’ve personally seen cables from the 40’s and 50’s with a ground conductor, although it is very uncommon to find vintage grounded cables. Also, many homes in Hawai’i are still being powered by 60+ year old cables, and its not uncommon to find homes with wiring well over 100 years old! Is it up to todays safety standards? Absolutely not. But in the rare occurrence that the original wiring has not been modified and/or expanded creating a higher load on the old original circuits, the wiring very well could last another 100 years without skipping a beat. Unfortunately most older homes here have the presence of old cables that have been spurred off to many new appliances and devices that the old electrical systems were never designed to handle, creating a very high load on the old wires that results in the old rubber and cloth insulation becoming brittle. I’m very lucky to work with a journeyman electrician who was previously an electrician in Australia. From my understanding, electrics in Australia follow a similar method to the UK and i’ve been able to learn alot from him about different wiring methods in different countries. He’s told me he greatly prefers the American style electrical panels where the breakers clip onto a central BusBar vs the MCB methods used abroad. Our panels in America are usually twice the size if not more of the average consumer unit found in other countries abroad, leaving more room for wire terminations & heat dissipation. Thats just my 2 cents!!
The lamp sockets are a neat idea, although they wouldn't pass in Canada/America as they are because horizontal sockets generally are either not allowed or have to be protected, as they could easily get liquid or other materials in them. They're not unheard of, especially in like commercial situations where you need access to electrical in the floor of large rooms, but even then they're usually recessed boxes with the receptacles vertical or at an angle.
Good video, I tape all 3 leads together at 2 or 3 places along the length and just try leave enough free length at the probe end, saves them getting really tangled. Hope that makes sense
as far as i know (not an electrician) i have not seen it. been renovating my building from 1925 with knob n tubes and across all the bad electrical jobs that happend here. have not seen anything remotely like what you have there. Also. we don't really have ring circuits in the US/Canada. this is foreign technology :) we do have a lot more breakers in a main panels which goes to different receptable/light/devices. my house has about 50 circuits for 2 floor. with gfci/afci protection on most of them at the branch circuit not at the main breaker anyway, always fun watching other people working with different technology
I think the UK was particularly unlucky with that, I've never seen amounts like this anywhere else! I do have a 1950s or 1960s extension lead somewhere that has some green goo leaching out of the holes of the socket, so cable manufacturers in central Europe clearly did make the same mistake.
That’s one of the most enthusiastic EICR’s I’ve ever seen on RU-vid. I think you and Jordan now have the best tester out of all the big RU-vid stars. Dave Savery has an older Mettrel, and Chris from CJR has a good Kewtwch one. But think Artisan now on top. Although never seen DSS Dan’s tester?
I absolutely love this, im a sparky too, and when ever i come across this sort of nightmare, i just relish the moment of pulling the cutout and killing the killer install !!
BS3036 fuses are old hat, though if an RCD has been added, the fuse wire is correct, there are no signs of thermal damage, the board is adequately IP rated and suitably fire resistant for its location, the Zs readings are appropriately reduced then they are technically acceptable
@@paulprescott7913 The UK is so bad that it is a case of 'if you can't see it then it complies' I know of places that haven't been looked at in 40 years, but people still living there. I changed a board that had a nail used as a fuse wire in a 15A fuse ... I think the suppliers fuse would have gone before the nail melted!
I think that is a ‘Barn Door’ situation where any testing is unnecessary as the consumer unit fails on visual examination and a full rewire is required to remedy. Any testing of the existing installation would only serve, curiosity, video production or increasing cost for the customer. I am not an electrician.😉
Wow, a very old electrical panel double. Some outlet problems. Great Job Jordan and Cory! Also Very interesting your new multimeter Great show how to use. I love to watch your new multimeter. Thumb up!!! Cheer!
nicely done corey! tbh at first i thought you were jordan!!! 😂😂😂 damn got me there! my god! what a nightmare! thats a hell of a rewire job! i think blow the place up and start from scratch! 😂😂😂
In the US if you upgrade a system (as opposed to repair) you must bring the entire system up to code...so the PV addition should have caused the installer to fix everything to code. I saw one home built in the 30's that had solid copper wire covered with cloth insulation...it was so old that when I opened the fuse box the cloth had actually rotted off the wires! The only thing keeping the wires from shorting was the fact that they were solid and not able to move...I showed it to a buddy who teaches electrical and he brought his whole class.
And if somebody likes to take photos, I recommend taking a picture of the house when you get there as a demarcation between the previous electrical stuff and the current electrical stuff. because after a while they start to look identical. It's not like I know this from going around taking pictures of electrical stuff for absolutely no reason.
The green goo. Is like a gauss they used to cover the conductors in brfire wrapping the insulation in. I think it’s the same as silica powder stopping the insulation from drying out and being affected naturally and going ridged over time and acts as a barrier to stop moisture in the cable in the manufacturing process. All cables that time period like that. Seen it drip out of sockets to. 🙃.
Common sense needs to be used here. When there is no earth on a Class 1 appliance you have a serious shock hazard . Without out an Earth wire/CPC the fuse or breaker for the circuit is unlikely to cut off the power if there is a fault.
There must be thousands of dwellings in this situation. However, if all insulated fittings are in use throughout and no cpc in the lighting circuits, does this constitute automatic failure ?
@@kbultray I believe as long as you use Class 2 fittings (Double insulated) your fine in this situation as there is no way you can come in contact with a live part. If your making changes to the lighting circuit or installing a Class 1 fitting that is when you need to have a cpc. professional-electrician.com/technical/lighting-circuits-without-cpc/
It'll be one of those cowboy door-to-door solar installation companies "befriending" the (probably) older person who would've owned this property. Maybe they are even experiencing dementia. The installer knows full well the homeowner won't get any returns in their lifetime, they just want their money. Seen quite a few cases of this - not sure how you can live with yourself working in such a way but we all have different moral compasses...
I am in the US -- actually from Maine, where we have lots and lots of very very old houses. I haven't seen this "green goo" built up in the bottom of any boxes, but there was an era of cable that always seems to feel "gooey." I don't know if it's the same thing, but I'll be paying closer attention next time I encounter it. I have a project apartment building over in the next major city that I believe has some of that cable. We're rewiring the whole place one apartment at a time as tenants move out, so I should be able to grab some.
Good video and very informative. FYI - The green ‘stuff’ is Verdigris, or copper carbonate your tight to be careful it is toxic. Here on the coast it tends to copper chloride because of the salt.
Clearly the house has never been touched, never had any improvements done, electrical or otherwise, some have made comments about just informing the agent about the general condition. It really won't bother them either way because any payments will come out of the estate!
That's nothing; I have a few relatives whose house electrics is untouched since the 1950's; Untouched, brown sockets on the skirting & all still working perfectly!
I've still got one of those 6 way Wylex fuseboards in use in my house, rewired in the 80's, along with the MK Logic accessories of the time, all still working perfectly & not a bit of green goo anywhere!
Green/Blue "gunge" as you put it is copper oxidation (Just like rust on iron). If and when its held within a tank like the PVC, it ends up like the way an old car chassis does encased within the body, its like wood-worm, it keeps eating the same section over and over again until it just becomes nothing. The oxygen in the air itself wont cause it so much. Its the oxygen in moisture/water (h2o) that will eat away at it over time.
I've only seen that green goo ( I forget its proper name)just a few times in the odd light switch, never to that extent in that consumer unit. I did have a book from the Niceic that stated Although Unsightly and a result of chemical reaction "Green goo" wasn't toxic. I'm not entirely convinced of that
@@Ragnar8504 I can't remember exactly but its something to do with the pvc insulation being of different material from what it is now back in the 1960s-70s where the wires were stranded. It was either a reaction with the copper wires and pvc or the pvc outer sheath and the plaster on the walls degrading over the years
@@paultipton743 The liquid is the plasticizer (I'm not sure exactly what, dioctyl phthalate as suggested by Cory perhaps, that's something a specialised chemist would know about), the green colouring will be something along the lines of copper hydroxychloride caused by hydrogen chloride released from the PVC (thermal effects being a big driver of this). Simple skin contact is unlikely to be harmful, ingestion not recommended. Seeing as it stains and is just generally nasty, why touch it if you don't need to..
Surely if someone has requested an EICR that's what they should get,, we do the full report wether it's a fail or not, that's what the reports about, they may not take your advice, or may not have the money for remedials or rewire, and if you have not done full report, then they do not get the full information, wether they act on it then is there responsibility, and not yours.
Seen the green goo many times over the years. Some so bad it’s dripping from lights, sockets and switches like something out of ghostbusters. Rewired loads of them and found the IR normally alright and never brittle from it. I would’ve just coded on the visuals and spend rest of time listing for a rewire quote
That green goo as you put it, is quite common here in New Zealand where there are old school 1960-70's rigid plastic light and power switches that were made by PDL . Thankfully the cables manufacturers caught on to it and it is now not such a common thing with today's installations.
Really good video. I had that green goo all over my house in all the switches n sockets. Rewired it all but didn't realise it was as bad for you as you have just said.
I don't see it working that well, throw in wifi, power, peak usage, and bad weather this is going to be a right headache. Think of your maintenance costs and reputation with the family when it packs in, in the middle of winter, cold and snowy
@@imark7777777 The safety zone videos he made are for bathrooms, and with bathrooms I mean rooms that contain a shower and/or bathtub. And there the problem is a completely different one: People are standing or sitting naked in the tub or the shower. When there an appliance falls into the water people inside of the shower or the tub got a problem. In case of a sink this problem does not occur. First they wear clothes and shoes in most cases, second the floor is not earthed (here in Germany older metal tubs and shower trays are bonded) and in most cases insulated with PVC floor cover or comparable (tiles are also insulating). And if the appliance falls into the sink people should unplug it first before trying to get the appliance out of the water. And AFAIK in the UK standard outlets are not permitted in the bathroom. In most european countries they are permitted if they are outside of zone 2. In Germany it is also permitted to install a washing machine in zone 2, as long as the outlet where it's connected to is outside of zone 2.
I personally would not even bother with a test to save the client a few hours labour and just fail on a visual, but good to see a good knowledgeable tradesman in action well done
FYI 30:38 the meter makes the exact same sound as the "tink" notification alert sound in Mac OS X in case anybody else out there has been going which computer in my room is making that alert for the last 30 minutes .....
Thats brutal! Now you get to tell the customer its dangerous. And you'll no doubt get "well its been fine for 40 years.." or "are you sure it won't be okay for a while if we promise to sort it later" or my personal favourite "oh its modern health and safety gone mad!"
If the light outside the zone , than no matter If it is IP rated or not check a reg . Suitable for environment no , then I would not give a code at all . Recommendation in general comments that is all . Good video 👍👍👍👍
With the metrel testers I believe some of the older models you piggy back the blue lead with the green lead as you need all 3 to power the tester so you can still do L-N L-E ect, don't know if it's the same with the new swanky tester though 😂
That's such an awesome and quirky house.. kinda like an involuntary museum, with interior styles of the last 70 years all mixed together, including the electrical installation. If that was mine, I'd probably tear all out and wire up new..
Here on the continent there are never earth wires in ceiling lamp points, and it's not like people are dying in swathes because of that. But I understand that safety has been prioritised to and through the ceiling in the UK :)
In France it is mandated to have earth wires everywhere (plugs, lighting circuit) even if the actual lamp doesn't need to be earthed. If I remember correctly it's the same in Germany
@@_akuma06 Correct, now these days the PE must be carried to everywhere, even if it's not necessary. If not necessary they will be fitted with a connector and put back in the box were they don't disturb anyone or anything. Back in the old days, probably when the house shown her was installed, it was the same thing in Germany. No PE at the light fitting, because most luminaires were class 2 back then. But it was common practice here to have a PEN even in final circuits, and that was permitted until 1973 to do so. And that stuff still works today, and if an outlet is defective and must be replaced, the owner don't want a rewire, you'll have to redo it. For repairs and maintenance it's permitted to reinstall these connections, but it's not permitted to install new PENs in final circuits. Now the PEN must be at least 10mm² in copper or 16mm² in aluminium.
The problem with re wires in these old ‘original decor’ 70s properties is that it’ll ruin all the decor and it’ll end up being completely refurbished and the 70s style will die out
How can you possibly do a IR test on circuit without disconnecting the Nuetrals from the the CU without blasting anything still connected? And a Pendant is Class 2, not class 1 unless Metal .That Boy has a lot to learn. And the first circuit on any board shoud be the most demanding, ie Shower, Cooker etc
I work in the USA, I've come across green goo in a few times in factories. Often water, oil, or solvents getting into motor terminations or junction boxes causing the wire to break down, usually really bad in fine stranded wires. I assumed it was some sort of corrosive reaction.
Besides in high corrosive environment i have next to ever seen that green goop. Most of what i seen was in sea coast south Florida where copper turns green and its usualy a mess with green slime. I did a rewire on a mid west 1950’s home the insulation was like glass brittle no green goo it was rubber insulation no ground except kitchen and bath nothing was earthed besides the boxes. It also show signs of too large amp Eidson fuses used most likely before my time and was replaced GE panel that had melted several conections. But now its all THHN MC now with square d QO CAFI and AFCI breakers.
Question from the U.S. I've never seen any electricians in residential work using a malfunction tester before. We use the standard fork or clamp "multimeters" from either (Klein, Ideal, fluke.....ect) Why the malfunction tester vs hand held multimeters?
The really big feature that regular multimeters don’t have is the ability to output a high voltage (250/500/1000) and use that for the resistance measurement. Normal multimeters measure resistance with a couple of volts, up to 9V from the battery. You will never find insulation faults that break down at line voltage without a high voltage insulation test.
That green goo is nasty stuff. We had it in the wiring of our house. Had because there is really only one permanent solution. Rewire. Eventually the insulation goes brittle.
i think in the 1905 house we got there also is a switch that terns on a light prob for a bed. string is not there tho. i hope to get it working one day
@@Ragnar8504 i have fitted 3 and all came prewired with lamp flex. Looking at the innards, the electrical stuff is double insulated in plastic boxes. No earth connection.