All i need is 9 speed sora on my gravelbike. Rear derailleur is a mtb 9 speed alivio to fit a 11- 40 cassette in the back. Everything is affordable if you stay with 9 speed and also easy to adjust.
I almost wanted a Tiagra until I remember 9 speed Shimano have the same cable pull mtb & road, so a combination of road lever and mtb rear mech is gonna be better for a climbing machine.
As a die hard Ultegra fan, and a sram GX user, I made the very intentional decision to do my latest (3 years ago) gravel build with Tiagra 4700 I had from an old take-off on a complete bike. Since then I’ve become a huge advocate for 2x10 speed gravel. Gravel bikes take such an enormous amount of abuse when you think about the mileage it goes through and the amount of trail work it can endure as a rigid bike. I also tend to (lightly) crash on my gravel bike more than any other bike, likely due to the underbiking. I think an economical and highly durable 10 speed drive train for this purpose is perfect. My chain lasts longer, cassettes last longer, and shifting tolerance is much higher when met with mud and debris. I get tons of gear range, replacement parts are much cheaper, and the idea that a front mech doesn’t work perfectly on a trail is asinine. I don’t see any reason to go with a high end drive train on a bike that will take so much wear in its life.
I have a 1979 Apollo Gran Sport and just had Tiagra installed. I kept the original parts on the bike which were not required for the groupset like the brakes, handlebar, etc. I'm very happy with it.
I love this take. I have lots of high end bikes but I think a cheap, simple bike has tremendous appeal. I should probably get a good quality used steel frame and throw rim brake 4700 on it. Crashing, mud, rain, sticks... eh, so what. A new RD is $35. Sometimes I don't want to ride my high end bikes because I'm worried about damaging them. I'm doing it wrong.
I had a 105 equipped Kuota from 2012 that i really enjoyed but i got stolen on Christmas. Come january i found the Merida Scultura Endurance 300 on stock at a retailer with Tiagra groupset and i just fell for it. Order it and will get it in about a week. and i gotta say your video is one of the reasons i dethroned the 105 and began my tiagra(french) revolution. Will get back with updates after a couple of rides. :D
My favorite group set ever was Shimano 105 (r5800?) that came on a 2016 Masi CXGR. Most reliable, super crisp shifts ever. Even when I mixed and matched parts it was flawless. My final setup on that bike was a SRAM 10spd mtb double crankset, Truvativ 42/28 rings, SRAM chain, Suntour 11-36 11spd cassette, with a Wolftooth road link. Never missed a shift, and I rode that bike through all kinds of shitty conditions. I’ve had multiple iterations of Ultegra, including the latest (mechanical) version on my current road bike, have GRX 600 on my gravel bike, but nothing beats that 105.
Sram fanboy here since 11s was released up until 12s AXS. I have recently purchased a couple old Shimano derailleurs 6600 Ultegra and 5600 105 to polish up to for a vintage downtube friction 11s build, we'll see how that works out. Also a 4700 long cage, boy is it heavy.
I just bought a brand new road bike from Polygon with full shimano 105 (except chain) for $800. Yes it has rim brakes and I like the rim brakes better than any mechanical disc brakes I've ridden and better than some hydraulic disc brakes.
Yeah Polygon really does give you incredible value for money. The only thing that I seem to have a problem with them is most of their bikes don’t seem to fit me. When ever I enter my measurements I basically get results back saying “sorry we have nothing for you” lol which sucks because I would love to road test one. I really love what they’re doing with their lines right now.
@@dobbscycleworks what? No available size for you? You should use the size chart instead of entering your measurement on the website, polygon website might not work properly , that is one of the things i do not like about bike manufacturers in my country, they do not maintain their website properly.
Regarding the weight Dobbs, the best place to save would be the crankset. The Tiagra crankset is almost 900 grams alone. I upgraded to lighter canks from Velo Orange, got a 2by combination of choice, and saved over 105 by buying the other components from Tiagra. I later sold Tiagra rimbrakes and upgraded to ultegra rimbrakes. The best of all worlds: I get the same range as ultegra on 2by 11, the weight saving is not enough that matters to an amateur rider like me; but the money saved sure does. And the bikes performs flawless. The other thing one can do after saving on Tiagra over 105 is to get the best cables and housing you can. Some of the Jagwire stuff (KEB-SL) for example makes mechanical brakes soooooooooooooo much better wow.
This is a good tip and it's true of lots of groups. I have a Rival AXS group on a bike I built in 2022, but I swapped in the '22 Force crank. That combination brought the entire groupset to within 70 grams of 2022 Force AXS.
Good cables are vastly underrated, you are absolutely right in mentioning Jagwire here. For a couple of tenners, it's a considerable upgrade. For me it's Jagwire on every bike.
@@ClockworksOfGL I totally agree. Had them on one of my bikes ten years ago and I did not like them at all. Cantilever and V-brake all the way. The ease and cost of maintenance are way superior to disc brakes and the difference in stopping power is doesn't warrant the extra hassle. The only pro, imo, for discs is the life expectancy of your rims but they usually go bust by my maltreatment before the braking surface wears out anyway. And I don't like internal routing either.....🙄
The good: huge upgrade from 8 speed Sora on an old bike. The bad: Durability. Less than 2000 miles over three years and and my 10 speed went to a 9 speed because of slop in the rear mech pivot and internal wear in the shifters. The good: compatability with 105 7000 series 11 speed. I swapped the shifters and rear mech to 105. Still running 10 speed tiagra cassette, front deraileur, crankset, and rim brakes. Shifts perfectly. 11 speed cassette won't fit on old wheelset.
10 years ago I bought an Ultegra equipped road bike. When the RH lever broke I replaced with Tiagra shifters (the last iteration with external gear cables) and 105 f/r ten speed and the differnce is like night and day. The Ultegra ran with a clickety-clack, it needed frequent indexing, and the shifts weren't great. The new set-up runs almost silently, the changes are more positive and it rarely needs re-indexing. I don't know about electronic, but I believe the omptimum was reached with 10 speed, beyond which the tolerances are too tight.
I don’t know… if affordability is a key factor to determining “the people’s groupset, why stop at Tiagra? Why not Sora?? Sure it’s a 9spd group set but it comes in both 2x9 and 3x9. With road levers and flat bar triggers. I know bike shop mechanics who have installed Sora group sets on their bikes, but plan on skipping Tiagra for 105. Compatibility? Tiagra derailleurs being compatible with 11 spd shifters isn’t anything I would brag about. That would mean mixing with a 105 or Ultegra component. Why not just use those as your groupset instead? These days you can get 9 or 10spd components from older ultegra and 105 sets easily. Sure they may be used but they’re still really good. The only advantage I really see here is that Tiagra is available. I have never seen Tiagra components out of stock. But for Tiagra’s compatibility issue, usually the best option to go with once you pick up one Tiagra part is to go full Tiagra. Sure 105 has gone up in price, but once you have a component, whether 11 or 12 spd, it should be compatible with 105, ultegra, or Dura-ace of the same speed. With that said, 105 feels like an invitation to more cycling adventures, an on ramp or a crossroad. Tiagra just feels more like a detour.
Fellow bike mechanic here - 4700 works really well. One of the best mechanical shifting/hydraulic brifters Shimano has ever made are the small hands version (ST-4725). It has smoother shifting than the normal sized 11sp hydro brifters, and the levers have a wider blade which is much more ergonomic. I have one gripe with the Tiagra 4700 - which is at the small ring of their triple crankset where Shimano invented a new standard for the chainring (asymmetrical 73 BCD). That 4700 gruppo with small hands levers will age like fine wine....
CUES road is probably launching in the coming year, which will include 11 speed options. Unfortunately the pull ratio, chains, and cassettes are all incompatible with previous 11 speed groupsets
Agree, but hey, if we are smart enough, this is the best time to get tiagra because given its run, I doubt second hand parts as and when and if needed will be an issue at all. Hell, given the 105 prices, one can buy two new sets of tiagra components for life!
I don't like CUES. I expect it to be heavy and e-bike compatible. Desing looks soulless. It's not enter level for enthusiasts, it's more for trekking riders.
I have Tiagra on my bike for two years now and claimed it "Groupset of the people". I also race,so...I got the bug to make it better for that. Mostly weight. Crankset is much heavier than 105 but I replaced 50/34 stock for 52/36 Absolute Black and saved 150gr, 11-34 cassette is 370gr but SRAM 1070 11-33 is 290,Ultegra 6700 11-28 is 250gr. I wondered what I'm leaving in brake department with mechanical brakes. Than I did something stupid and bought gravel bike with GRX 400. Switched levers, brakes, RD from that bike and 105 FD. Sold gravel bike with Tiagra. It is great groupset, for sporty rider I say go for lighter crankset and cassette and hydraulic brakes. For kids and women there is smaller lever version 4725. It's better than DA 7800, I don't miss 11.
My older Tiagra derailleur stopped working correctly this year (after 10 years of heavy use) because of the different pull ratios of newer tiagra I couldn’t replace it with a new tiagra derailleur but my bikeshop had an old 10 speed ultegra derailleur lying around which the cleaned up and fitted. It’s actually improved the shifting. Who needs more than 10speed?
Even your Tiagra shifters (I guess ST-4600?) finally give up the ghost, there will be still lots of compatible derailleur lying about, such as Sora, Claris and all the 9-speed MTB derailleurs. I guess it will be a really long time before 10-speed becomes totally obsolete.
I use a XT 9 speed rear Derailleur with 10 speed brifters. I get the long cage, with large rear cassette, and drop bars. Makes a very flexible drive train.
4700 is also compatible with GRX400. I have a bike that started life as a 4700'd hybrid, that is now a 4700 Franken-gravelly thing with drop bars. Currently set up with: GRX400 rear with a 11-40 (and YES it works and shifts perfectly), a 4700 48/34 crankset with 4720 hydro levers with Ultegra BR-RS785 post mount calipers. I have friends who ride 105'd bikes.....4700 is WAY more durable
RX400 is also compatible with R7000 shifters. A have R7000 (hydro) shifter, 11 speed cassette and RX400 rear mech. Works perfect. It was cheep upgrade from road+ to gravel.
I built a flat bar bike with a steel genesis frame and forks it has rim brakes and a mix and match of Shimano 105 and tiagra 4700 parts, the tiagra 10speed flat bar shifters are really smooth and work fine with the 105 mechs overall this bike is simplicity and I give the tiagra 4700 a big thumbs up
I'm open to correction here but I'm sure I read one time that Tiagra 4700 10 speed levers and rear mechs have compatibility problems with other Shimano 10 speed groupsets. For example , if I trash a 105 10 speed rear mech I cannot replace it with the cheaper Tiagra 4700 rear mech because its pull ratio does not match the 105 10 speed levers. Is this correct?
Yes that is correct, older shimano 10 speed has a different pull ratio than the 4700 but Tiagra does use the same pull ratio as R7000 and R8000 so you technically can mix and match those.
When I upgraded from 105 5600 to Tiagra 4700, I forgot to take cable pull ratio into account, so now I've ended up with not just the ST-4700 and FD-4700, I have the RD-4700 too. Good thing the rear derailleur was in the same shop I got the front derailleur from, only the STI levers are new.
Use an 11 speed 105 with my Tiagra simply because I like the way the Shadow mech sticks out less. Total success. Actually runs quieter than original too. Having had all the 10/11 speed groupsets on various bikes, I feel 10 speed is peak mechanical. Just that bit less fussy and the chains last a touch longer.
I have the gravel cousin a GT Grade with GRX 400. 46 30 FSA chainring. 11 36 cassette so 500% gear range. No idea how to service the hydraulic brakes. However they do perform well,
Just reuse R7000 parts to make the "new" Tiagra 4800(or R5000), keep the silver option and rim brakes, then we still have people's group with minimal efforts by Shimano. But maybe there won't be Tiagra and lower tiers anymore, and a road CUES ecosystem will replace them all.
The groupset of the poeple ...No really, I have a 2x8 Microshift groupset and it's fine. I'd love t upgrade to a 2x10 Tiagra. I would win on all fronts... Although one question... can I install a crank based powermeter? (quick Google says that as long as it uses the Shimano’s Hollowtech II interface something like a 4iii or stages pm should work fine... )
Yeah you could definitely go that route or just get a 3rd party power metered crank. Might run into some wonky issues with 10 speed chain rings so maybe power meter pedals might be an option to look into as well. I’ll do some more research and get back to you cause now I’m curious about that
Hi, sorry for late comment, but i bought used local brand 2015 mtb for 60$ and its heavy. and then i've changed the groupset with Tiagra 4700 flatbar right shifter, cassete and rd. And for the front, i put deore 3x crankset, fd and the shifter. Its looks cool, the reason i dont use the tiagra crankset its because its to big for me and i dont like the mtb rd and shifters looks. Well,.... The groupset are more expensive than the bike itself.. lol but i like my bike
to me the current 105 seems like an epic flop so far. Literally a month after the release i saw ton of it on massive sales. 12 speed has nothing to do with people lol.
I am a fan of 4700. I should state that I have bikes with other, higher-end groups. But 4700 works just about as well. The fact that it’s 10-speed doesn’t bother me at all. Indeed, I would not want to have to fiddle with mechanical 12-speed; it’s just a bit too delicate to index. It’s telling, however, that Shimano has done nothing to upgrade Tiagra in years. While one could argue that 400-level GRX is actually an upgraded Tiagra, 4700 remains unchanged. Rumors are, of course, that Tiagra will be phased out when CUES goes drop bar. That would be a shame.
good call out! yeah definitely should have taken a look at it against GRX, luckily I might just be getting a GRX equipped bike soon so I could actually get to do a hands on comparison.
Most entry level road bikes come with 10 speed compatible hubs. So if you want to upgrade to 11 speed 105. You will need a new 11 speed wheel set or rebuild your rear wheel with new hubs.
right, you would need to eventually once you get the rest of the group but if you mix the 105 11 with 4700 you have to limit the mech to 10 speed for it to work and not throw the derailleur into the wheel. Side note, my brother trashed a 2003 Bianchi Veloce by not keeping up with the maintenance and he threw the derailleur into the rear wheel. I will never forgive him for that lol
Also not bad group sets by any means but when I’ve tested between Claris/Sora/Tiagra there is a definite notable increase in performance with Tiagra over the other too. Like I said Claris and Sora are still great but I think Tiagra just sits in the perfect place between performance and affordable intro.
Only buy the Tiagra shifters, then use a 10 speed Microshift rear deraillieur and aliexpress CVR crankset (with steel axle) to get the weight to 105/Ultegra territory.
Yes. And second hand 10 speed dura ace wheelsets, say 7800, or rs 80, will cost you 200 bucks (I'm talking rim brakes). 400 to 600 for a capable groupset and an awesome wheelset, plus 600 for a good condition second hand frameset, and voilà
My Cube Attain from 2019 has most 20k on it and never had problems with the groupset. It's an amazing groupset. The downsides are the 10 speed compatability problems and the front mech is just so bad compared to 105 or ultegra, its just dated.
Well, so in my search to upgrade my bike (current bike is an Olmo built up NR in 1983), I had decided after the Dura Ace/Ultegra crankset fiasco that I might downgrade to 105. Now it seems I might downgrade to Tiagra. See how much money you've saved me already? Oh, and nothing wrong with your video editing.
This fucking groupset. I ordered tiagra 4700 10 speed shifters and a 105 10 speed derailleur before I knew better. The fact that I got it to shift as good as it did was a testament to my dedication to get something to work. They dont work together, nearly at all. In case you didnt know. Pull ratios.
Yep, and oddly enough it is the same pull ratio as shimano’s 11 speed r7000 and r8000 so you can technically interchange parts of those groups with Tiagra. It’s so strange and yet I still love it lol.
Real peoples cassette gearing too, please ! Who is strong enough to pulled a 11,12 or even a13 sometimes on the flat. Merckx did is hour record on 52×14, and recognised after having suffered like hell ! If this gear is enough for him for 1 hour , it should be more than enough for me for 1 minute ! Please stopped giving Ferrari transmission for all thoses honda civic motors , is it to hard to figure this thing out !?!
@@TnFruit you're entitled to that, but I don't understand how stating the MSRP at launch and then stating you can find it cheaper now is any different than you saying you got it cheaper. the MSRP at launch is an unchangeable fact, for the rest of time that price will be what it cost when it was first introduced so how can I reference a specific number cheaper than that when that is subject to change based on retailer and region on a whim? If we want to discuss "realistic" prices, then the launch MSRP is the only realistic one because it is the only one that will never change.
@@dobbscycleworks well, you didn't make this Video at launch, you did it yesterday. So, in my opinion, you should use a realistic price. I think the MSRP sounds better in your "comparison" to get more clicks. 🫵🏻
Dude, this video is like a year out of date. Even GCN made a video on the exact same topic when it was still relevant. In the last month I have seen full R7150 groupset for 950 euros brand new and R7020 for 550, also brand new. Tiagra isn't that much cheaper and your chain will jump all over the place because that old rear mech has zero tension. I've seen used R8020 cheaper than new Tiagra. There are so many better options.
Let me save you 12 minutes. No no it is not better than 105. Is it good enough? Yes probably for the vast majority of people Tiagra is just fine and will get you from A to B.
