The biggest upgrade mistake I ever made was upgrading to 105 from Tiagra. I didn't notice any difference. Yes I didn't really notice the extra gear. Upgrading my wheelset to a nice carbon set did create a real difference.
Similar. Couldn't resist a used Ultegra hydraulic cable Roubaix. Tiagra with two sets of wheels would have been better. Saving up for next year - sell two bikes, get new goid frame, Tiagra, and modern wide rims. But, respect to 105. 1980s swap for Weinman 730s and 500s was monumental improvement to braking
@@nicholasgiles500 tbf, 2007 Ultegra was noticeably better braking than mid 1980s 105. 2018 hydraulic Ultegra better than 2097 Ultegra. But they should be. Even recent Claris is pretty good
"old" 105 (R7000) might have been the last 105 gropset of the people...the new Di2 one sure as heck isn't. Tiagra is the new groupset of the people and Sensah is a strong contender to take over that title!
As soon as 11sp tiagra is released, it will dethrone 105 mechanical. The performance between the two currently is identical to 99% of riders. The one huge benefit of going 105 was compatibility to upgrade to ultegra/dura ace if you wanted to over time. If 11sp tiagra keeps that compatibility to 11sp ultegra/dura ace, that will be huge.
@@feedbackzaloop 4700 does have hollowtech II. And yes the 7000 RD is better, tiagra shifting is still leaps and bounds above what most people have used prior to buying an entry bike. If you did a blindfold test, I bet most people couldn't tell having never ridden either (unless they counted the shifts of course!)
@@bretthood1272 Hollowtech refers to the spindle, hollow forged - arm, those are different things. Also the big ring of Tiagra is stamped steel with plastic cover VS hollow aluminium shell of 105. The difference of course one could see only at sprinting. Basically, what I'm trying to say, 105 crankset stands out as own technology, while Tiagra is very similar to Claris, Sora and non-group specific parts, meaning you could go even lower tier.
Believe it or no believe it or not plenty of people around like mechanical group sets and rim brakes. Not everyone are racers most people just want to ride a bike and enjoy the scenery and the effect it has on their mental health..
Recently got 7-speed Orbea urban bike. Even in very hilly southeast London and routes into Kent, it's great. Wish it had separate lugs for rack and mudguards. Might change bars to drops. The
The minute you need special equipment to set your push bike up, it is no longer a push bike. Mechanical and rim brake is good enough for nearly everyone. It's not a motorbike.
So does a hydraulic disc brake and electronic shifting negatively impact your mental health 🤔 Or are you trying to imply that people who like better kit are inferior to the true conossieur like you because they're not doing it right in yoir book?
Guys, the weight question between 105 and Tiagra was answered by last week's poll: 80+% of the people know that it is all about their own fitness and not some grams here and there. Tiagra FTW.
Tiagra 4700 is a phenomenal groupset. I have it on my commuter, even through the tough Scottish winters it never goes wrong and I’m not really that religious when it comes to cleaning. It shifts great!
I’ve got a 10spd tiagra I put on a TCR frame. The groupset has about 3k miles on it now, and has been amazing. I think for 99% of people saving the money to go tiagra makes sense. Works flawlessly when set up well
I’m running the tiagra and been riding it about 3 years now with average 80kms a week and it’s absolutely fkd changed cables been serviced every year, shifts terrible, cannot wait to get a new bike and away from this groupset.
That 105 Di2 pricing is simply Shimano saying “we don’t want you to buy this standalone …buy a new bike” got nothing to do with the cost of manufacturing it
Eventually every bike will have at least 100 gears and a chain so thin it has to be made from spider silk. And every cyclist will have to remortgage their house to continue with their pastime.
100% agree. The groupset of the people (assuming by the people you mean semi serious cyclists) is whatever groupset adds up to a total bike that costs around a grand
@@gomezgadgetyeharr9248 i came across the calipers one day. just the calipers. i bought them. the girlfriend asked what i was going to do with those, i said dont know... she asked then why did you buy them, i said dont know...😆
@@DjCringefest AX was the aero version ex was more pretty even campy-like - iIhad Dura Ace ex in the eighties with a Crane rear derailleur, wjich was the top tier then, funniely enough there was not a Dura Ace rear derailleur untill a little later.. 105 was a very sorry groupset in he 80'ties with riveted on crank-rings.
I think the media and the people need to start holding these companies accountable. We need to start demanding cheaper and quality tech from these companies. These war between companies have been driving their prices insanely high and it’s not good for people who are getting into cycling. It’s starting to become a little bit elitist in my point of view.
How about making 2 ‘Groupset of the People’ t-shirts for the GCN shop? One Tiagra, one 105 and see which one sells the most. (The Tiagra one would be £5, the 105 £17)
I just upgraded a bike from claris 8 speed to tiagra hydraulics , its an amazing groupset. Brakes like hell and shifts fast and accurate. Had taken me a long time to decide between 105 11 speed and tiagra 10. Spent the money saved in new clothes for the winter 😅
@@geraldvillaraiz6767 What was your final decision? I have 8sp tiagra as well and am considering an upgrade to either 105 or Tiagra. Im leaning towards Tiagra and keeping my mechanical discs
Totally with you on using 10 speed ultegra components. My old Tiagrarear derailleur died, but my local bike shop had a 2nd hand ultegra 6600 derailleur which I now have fitted. Shifts have never been smoother, it’s lighter and it looks so much nicer
If 300 grams for the groupset, 300 grams for a wheelset, 100 grams for a handlebar, 200 grams for a seat+post... It all adds up for a much heavier bike. And a heavier bike obviously requires more work to move, and its not as inspiring to ride.
@@krisberntzen I totally agree, on a technical level, yeah a heavier bike. But I think it’s worth thinking about the diverse spread of people who ride bikes. A large swathe of people want to get outdoors, get fit, go on adventures and just enjoy riding bikes. A lot of people aren’t that fussed about saving grams, they just want a reliable rig to get out on. It’s why I think tiagra is an incredible and affordable group-set.
@@oliverbrunt1 Plus, the cheapest way to lose weight is to eat right and exercise, that's what most entry level riders are trying to do. I could easily lose 10 lbs for no cost instead of spending hundreds to lose a pound on the bike.
Shhhhhh, don't say that Tiagra is the groupset of the people!!! Shimano will hike the price of it by £1200, throw some batteries and actuators at it, make it in 14 speed only and hydraulic disk brake only!
I regularly bump into a 76 year old cyclist who has a 3x10 speed Tiagra groupset bike which has covered at least 10 thousand miles per year for the last 12 years, and it's still on its original cassette! His last chain was replaced after 5 years of riding. Furthermore, he makes little effort to keep his drivetrain clean!
I have GRX 400, so essentially tiagra. Really nice shifting, great brakes (disc). I am keen to upgrade to 12-speed purely for the sake of gear range. Using my gravel bike as a road bike as well, I am missing some higher gears when running with my cycling club.
FINALLY, Tiagra is so underrated and awesome and hasn't been tuned into a wireless only groupset. I'm glad you guys are finally giving it some attention.
i don't know about that. the noobs all seem to be pretty happy with their "upgrade"... they think its amazing and all they'll ever need! they're cyclists now, gcn said...
Newbies on the top are all delusional, 10 speed Tiagra doesn't even come close to the 10 speed 105 series in terms of sleek look, quality and weight. Good thing we have Microshift & Sensah groupsets to look out for in the future.
I use Tiagra for Ironman. Felt VR40 aluminum road bike. Addition of aero-bars and upgrade to a Reynold's carbon wheelset are the only changes I've made. Tiagra has been fantastic. I ride about 200 miles a week...which includes a Sunday 100 miler.
I bought a Tiagra equiped gravelbike in 2017 mainly for bikepacking. I changed the chainset to a grx to get a 30 chainring. But otherwise I've had no problems. In fact, last year I needed a new winter bike and had a choice between a tiagra bike for 1000€ or the 105 bike for 1500€. Both had the same terrible wheels and tyres. I bought the tiagra version and then spent 300€ for a set of DT swiss 1800 wheels and pirelli tyres. I now have a great bike. The wheel/tyre change saved 1.5 kg !
I upgraded my winter bike to 4700 Tiagra and it is faultless. I am still running the bike's stock FSA chainset which is lighter than the Tiagra and stock Tektro brake callipers (with upgraded seperate shoe and pads). I am also running it on my Cyclo-cross bike now albeit with shitty cantilevers.
I just bought my first road bike and I went for the 10 speed Tiagra over the 11 speed 105. Frankly, I wouldnt know the difference being my first road bike and couldnt justify the price difference.
I am guessing that one reason that pushed Wahoo to build the Kickr with internal Wifi capacity is because the RGT platform demands their upgrade to work well with RGT platform. I struggled with RGT for a long time and it was massively frustrating--constant drops, stalls, and freezing during workouts. I would then switch over to Zwift and have no problems. It was not an issue with a slow computer or a slow WiFi signal. Maybe their is a significant tech difference in their RGT platform.
My 2021 Tarmac SL6 with Tiagra R4720 was a golden deal! Now with Roval C38’s and Challenge Roubaix tires a gem of a bike. Saved money with Tiagra to spend on wheels and tires 🥳.
I'm running a Shimano 10 speed XT cassette, GRX 400 shifters and front derailleur with an 11 speed GRX 600 crankset, chain and 105 rear derailleur. It actually shifts much smoother than using full 10 speed components. The 10 speed cassette allows 11 speed chains more gap clearance between gears and my FD seems to shift much smoother with the 11 speed chain as well. With current 10 and 11 speed Shimano shifters having the same pull-ratio, there's room for some creative drivetrain setups!
Best bit about the bike vault is the setting critique, real grass at not kept gardens. People in the background at the beach. Keep it up guys love it 😂
Shimano would be stupid to discontinue R7000 105, as it's now the top tier mechanical group set and will be used by everyone (including myself) who doesn't like or want electronic shifting. As someone who uses my road bike on fair weather days only (have other bikes for poor days), I still prefer rim brakes and the lightness and silhouette they give the bike. Simply clean, and a high-end steel frame is timeless, will always look good and can easily compete with aluminum and mid-tier carbon frames for amateurs out for a pleasure ride with friends.
Don't REALLY necessarily want to see Alex riding in a G-banger, but to support the Groupset of the people, I gave it a thumbs up. BTW you guys need to make a shirt "Groupset of the People" with a fist-bump logo on it.
I am happy with my 10 speed 105 5700 groupset except that new cassettes are getting expensive if available at all. I now buy 10 speed Tiagra cassettes. The way Shimano are threatening to go, I will be buying 10s Sora soon.
So far, models below the Empire series needs some working. My SRX drifters still needed some working before I got to enjoy it. However, the Empire Pro/ Pro2 tho could give the Shimano 105 a run for its money~
@@helivarpalac2956 I have a feeling now that 105 di2 is here, it's priced way out of people's budget - hell I make over six figures but I thought spending $4k on my mechanical ultegra was spendy. I sure do love looking at pricey bikes, but no way I'm spending that much money. Even though I probably ride my bike more than my car (hours wise per week), I can't justify spending that much on something that loses so much value.
Still driving my Dura Ace 9000 Group set from 2014. Everything hazzle free. Superb shifting and exact rim brakes, noise free. Will last another 10 years until i get my first pacemaker implanted
I changed my 9 year old 2 x 9 speed Sora to 2 x 10 speed Tiagra 4700 (I already replaced the horrid original octalink fitted to the bike with an Ultegra chainset); brake levers, front and rear derailleur - a total qualitative improvement in smooth, precise gear shifting. Plus my cockpit improved beyond recognition and aerodynamics with the shifter cables exiting via the back of the brake levers instead of out of the side. So much better all round.
thanks for bringing up my comment and username :D TFL is in fact not short for transport for london, i didnt even know them when i made that username, but i had recently built a model supermarine spitfire which i found (and still find) extremely cool :)
Tiagra is great, shifts just as well as ultegra in my experience and has a hydro option. Currently the best groupset for the money. If it came in 11-speed I’d have it on my race bike.
So I have over 9500 miles on my 2018 Domane ALR 3, a Sora group set that has been beat up and worn out. I went to 2 bike shops to get overhaul and upgrade estimates. Results were that the 105 Mechanical would run $1200 to completely do the overhaul. I paid $1190 for the bike new in June 2019. HOWEVER, Shimano has the rear derailleur on back order until at least March. SO, I had another shop look over the bike and recommended Tiagra as the overhaul and complete bike overhaul with 10 Speed Tiagra is $940. So, I will go with Tiagra.
Tungsten Carbide is great stuff, the downside being, it's twice as dense as steel and has no ductility at all. Presents some difficulty for bicycle components.
In a few years, Sensah will be the groupset off the people, Chinese bikes in general, if China doesn't invade Taiwan they will do the same they have done with phones. Big brands doesn't want to sell below the 1000$£€ mark.
I have Tiagra on my touring bike and 105 on my race bike. Shifting on the Tiagra is much smoother, lovely looking groupset and I do wonder if Shimano are losing the plot at the moment?
I have a bike with full mechanical 11 speed Ultegra with rim brakes and it is sublime. I also have a bike with 12 speed 105 Di2 and it is also completely fabulous. Both groupsets are a joy to use and both have their strengths and limitations. Personally, I feel that if you can afford 12 speed Di2 then go for it, you won't regret it. However, Sora is all the groupset that anyone actually needs, and Tiagra is a lot more than most people will ever need. If you own a bike with either of these groupsets then you're not missing out - just enjoy your hobby!
As someone who has never been to either Europe or the US. Even I can tell the us uses Dollars and Europe uses the Euro. It's a good job Ollie isn't an economist. Now Blake from GMBN knows how much the Kickr costs.
the good thing about tiagra and old 105 having the same pull ratios isn't the rear mech. its that you can pop some 11 speed 105 shifters on a tiagra groupset and a 11speed cassette and you're on 11 speed.
@@AgentSmith16 Rd don't really care how many speeds are on there as long as the pull ratio is correct for the cog pitch and shifter pull and 11 speed road cassette is only 1.8mm wider then a 10speed.
I have been on sensah empire pro for the last year. and it is great for the price and quality I think it should be the groupset for the people. especially when it is half the price of 105 and 3/4 price of tiagra
@@Paddyhudson I was afraid at first. but my sram rival shifter broke after falling. it was so expensive to replace so I took a chance on sensah. I replaced shifter, rear derailleur and front derailleur. they were lighter.
I honestly love my Tiagra groupset. During the part shortages, it's been much easier to find cassettes and chains than other my 11 speed road bike (SRAM Rival). Parts are more affordable, performance isn't noticeable between 10 & 11 speed, etc. Tiagra is for the people!
Thanks, Ollie and Alex, for acknowledging that lots of us are not spending a lot on our bikes and why would we when frugality and cycling make perfect sense, fun for many of us to build up something nice at a relatively low price. And then upgrades, baby, upgrades as finances permit. And thank you, Dr. Bridgewood, for pronouncing Porsche with two syllables.
absolutely what I found: I use dry lube on the Ultegra cassette on my otherwise 105-equipped bike, and wash it down with warm water after each ride. and it's I have more than 3K kilometers on mine, still going strong. I'd recommend all 105 users to go for the Ultegra cassette and chain for this reason.
Tiagra is really good, have it on my brand new cannondale. Decent reliable groupset, excellent aluminium frame with prime carbon fibre wheels from wiggle 👍
I have just upgraded from rim break tiagra r4700 to rim breake ultegra r8000. Its night and day. The shifting speeds and accuracy, the breaks, but most importantly, the hoods on the ultegra are much more slim and comfortable to hold. I have no experience with r7000, but the r8000 beats circles on the r4700
If the new 105 is only Di2 and costs £1700, then it should be fairly obvious the average consumer will go for tiagra instead if that's £500. Also, listening to Durian Rider, he says once you get to 12 speed its too many gears as they have to be narrower and narrower and more precise with shifting, and I'd have to agree that 12 seems a bit too much, but 11 is good.
7 years ago I bought an entry level bike with a Tiagra 4600 series which I updated to a Tiagra 4700 series and a Ultegra R8000 brake calipers, I can say that Tiagra is a great groupset shift smoothly performs great on flat roads and hill climb no doubt about it. I actually skipped on 105, when I bought my latest bike I chose an Ultegra R8070 series which is way better than 105
I love all the fancy new bike tech like anyone, but the bike I ride most out of my collection is my simplest bike, it’s my felt tk3 track bike, 48x17 gearing and no brakes, I still love my other bikes, but I just can’t get over how simple and fun my track bike is. It’s also a lot less to worry about because less components mean less to go wrong, also its much more easy to maintain.
Like the comparison between the Tiagra and 105. I'm looking to upgrade to 105 12. But can you do a real test on the 2 gears and how much of a difference they make.
I'd buy Tiagra but it would still be 9 speed as I never get into the 11T cog...until then the R3000 Sora fits my needs and is still proper 9 speed with my custom 14-34T cassette I've split, mixed and matched...and it can go 40T rear with my Deore Shadow 592 SGS mech if needed....!!
i still use my 4+ year old 10 speed tiagra 4700 setup on my old giant gravel bike, i have an orbea with grx and tbh i prefer the shifting of the tiagra, feels much lighter and always accurate.
Put a 3 x tiagra groupset on a Claude Butler frame for my indoor trainer for £300 and it has been great .... especially for the monster hills, highly recommended if you have a tight budget ..
R7000 will be/is the last of 105 being *Groupset of the people*. the Di2 105 costs, on it's own, the entry level bike! Weights don't enter the equation. Quality Of Life might...? but Tiagra is that big a step down there anyways. i mean, you can race Cat 3 or 4 now on Tiagra without having to worry about mis-shifts. For me the the thing is, R7000 is being made until some time 2023... cool, all Shimano need to do is rebadge R7000 to Tiagra for the Tiagra 4700s' upgrade. That covers the 10 -> 11spd, also the 'trickle down tech', Quality Of Life upgrade, but the biggest thing (for Shimano) is tooling is already sorted... they wouldn't have to do a thing bar branding. 50 hundred and 3 likes for Alex Paton to pedal up a hill in double thongage, plix! GCN mankini would suffice and then some double-pluggers/jandels/flip flops. I can't believe I Can't Believe It's Not Buttter, and i also can't believe that peoples didn't think Ollie would be a dork. The Venn Diagram of Nerd - Dork is a single circle. Fun fact; within that diagram includes who "owns"/runs the internet ;) :D Alex hasn't seen This is Spinal Tap? ZUT ALOORS! What about The Goonies then? Or Two Hands? Hmmm, do we extend this out to the rest of GCN to wheedle out whomst'd is an uncultured swine? Side benefit could be GCN trainer parties watching obscure/old/bad/cult movies... ;)
YES! Been saying this for half a year at least. When 105 r7000 become scarce in shops and prices went up I urged everybody to get Tiagra. Yes chainset is porky but there are alternatives... Chains are cheap and 10spd mtb cassettes (deore, XT, SLX, XTR and SRAM) are easy to find and compatible up to 34t. I have Tiagra on my "cheap" Giant Contend AR2 and I'm keeping up with my friends on carbon Di2 bikes.
WELL it will show on the overall price of bikes already jacked up with massive increases and no product, 105 electronic is a bridge too far and reports saying It's not as good as SRAM money will be tighter and 105 has moved away from its core
since i am "people", I would say yes to tiagra! I use an older 105 cassette and a lighter chainset. It has worked flawlessly for hundreds of miles, and I have no complaints. The cost savings kept me on track - and if I hadn't upgraded with this set in 2019, i would have ultimately biked a lot less. Groupset for the people!
The real question is.... Should we be looking at other group sets or making our own from other component manufacturers? What is truly the most reliable cost efficient group set for the people?
Haven’t had a trainer drop out in a very long time. But then I do have an ANT+ dongle attached to a long cable run under the trainer connected to my laptop.
Here in the Philippines, 105/Tiagra is the Uppermiddleclass biker's groupsets, the real "peoples groupsets" are the non-internationally known groupset alternatives to shimano/sram. its unfathomable to see a ultegra/dura-ace around here.
I've just bought an 11 speed crankset for my Tiagra 10 speed bike. Will it work ok? I've already replaced a Tiagra crankset on another bike with 105 10 speed, and the weight difference is noticeable in normal riding, though it was at the same time as upgrading tyres and seat post.
Di2 105 is your fellow working class mate, (let's call him "Dave"), who used to be out on the lash with you at weekends. He's now accepted a middle management position at work, got married to a woman with a "bob" haircut who is desperately trying to climb the social ladder, (and doesn't like "Dave" associating with his old mates because they're too "common"), and is thinking about buying an Audi. No one sees "Dave" any more but his name pops up occasionally during drunken reminiscing of the good ol' days.
The way groupsets are going electronic in every generation (downward hierarchy) a few years down the line CLARIS would be termed as groupset of the people
I recently bought a lower end bike with Tiagra components for my smart trainer to zwift during the winter. I took it out for a spin on a real road and was impressed with the Tiagra shifting. It actually shifted better than my gravel bike with a bastardized mix of 105/GRX with a 40 cassette in the rear. As others have said, once 105 can only be bought as Di2 than it loses its title as "Groupset of the People". Shame on shimano for allowing this detitlement to happen!
I have a 1x setup w/ apex 2x10 shifters, and apex1 11sp derailleur, 10 speed ultegra cassette, race face chainring and lightning carbon cranks. Everything used or new take-off. That is what the people’s groupset should be imo.
@@renceonmc681 that's true, but are there bikes that come a standard with the hydraulic tiagra. and with upgrading so good cables and hydraulic cable acuated calipers the differnce is not that much.
@@StornofuerKasse3 the only thing i dont like is sensa empire being 11 speed i cant use my deore rear mech with clutch so i can ride gravel without Those chain soun
New to biking, got lucky to buy a roadbik with Shimano 105 groupset, brand new. Is there any detailed video how to set from 0 the first derailor "trimming"? I can't find any specifically Shimano/105 trimming adjustment/setting video on youtube. Thank you for your answers!
If you are talking about 105 Mechanical, just park tool video on rear derailleur adjustment. It’s has everything explained in great details and step by step.
