Air/Water Vs Methanol Injection - Which is better? Data Deep Dive! 

"Dad, YOU IDIOT!" :D thank you for sharing that gem!

I run a non intercooler kenne bell two screw with 2 nozzles one pre rotors and one post 50/50 water methanol and now been trying 50/50 water isopropyl

Dude that setup is ABSOLUTELY insane love it and the ingenuity. I'm now fan!

Single father with 2 daughters myself and that's how I ended up with a rotary swapped subaru forester 😅because my rx7 didn't have backseat its also got a air to water intercooler and a aem water/meth system on it now we are ls swapping my 84 datsun 720

very interesting stuff i love frankenstein style innovative solutions that works well

You cut a trick flow upper plenum and made it just trick 😂. I just seen that. Soo dope how you got that bad boy runnin. Sounds absolutely fkng insane

As I recall the guy at snow performance told me most of the gains come from adding timing to the engine. If you have strong parts and you have enough detonation resistance meaning good fuel. Start cranking in 3 degrees at a time. It'll really come to life. Mine was only on 17 degrees total. Because it is a stock block 8.2 deck.

So glad to have found this channel! Great stuff, well explained

Great data and proof of concepts. I run a air/water Intercooler 12x12x10 core on my turbo diesel 4x4 with extra car radiator/twin thermos under the tray and 15L coolant reservoir. Running 30 psi on a 35-40c day AIT after the cooler are at best 10-20c above ambient temperature.

This is a really cool video. Can I challenge you to try a bit of a different setup with the whipple, since you're already 90% there? Try putting a AC compressor on the engine, with the evaporator coil inside the air/water tank. Also put a fuel loop inside the tank. I think you can forget the ice altogether, as you'll needing to run antifreeze in the water tank. Cold intake air makes power, if you add enough fuel to meet the oxygen content of the cold fuel. Colder air, from a air/water intercooler will stabilize compared to ambient air temp running conditions, and make it easier to tune the engine. Not to mention the fact that radically cold air/water intercoolers create massive amounts of condensation inside the air chamber. That's lots of potential fuel, if you know how to convert water vapor into a combustible fuel source. If this interests you, respond here and I'll explain in further detail.

Excellent. Really appreciate the side by side comparison. Great general baseline data. NOW YOU MUST GET A PRODUCT AVAILABLE!!!

Your dad created the first DIY legit electric supercharger that made his car go 3 seconds faster... Don't you dare call him idiot😂

whipple sounds so good

Call it war emergency power! Used since WWII with great success. Fighters such as the P47, Corsair, and the Mustang + early turbojets and even turbofans used water methanol for a time. It's a proven technology and technique.

never like super charger i am a turbo man my self very cool build on the electric rig my man love it

Methanol/Water is great for the track. I would rather depend on aftercooling on a street car because it's not a consumable. To each their own. Air density is KING! That's the whole point of forced induction.

Awesome video! Also I’m sure a lot of the loss of the Whipple is parasitic loss from driving the supercharger, my guess would be at least 150 HP loss. No parasitic loss for the electric supercharger.

This is really cool testing and comparison. No pun intended. And OMG Roger is so cute!

Thanks in advance

Run both meth and air to water

Love this setup. Are there any wall wetting or manifolding issues with the methanol distribution? In the past, I had issues with cylinder trim with single point meth injection. Especially in large quantities. Maybe the location in the volute helps atomize the meth better? A fun test would be to just use water.

Te huge benefit of E-SC comes down to it can provide increased MAF without draining power from engine like Turbo or any other type of SC.. this can only work while there is stored energy. an alternative for "street" car would be to use a regenerative braking to charge tat "battery" (of what ever sort it is)

I haven't watched the video yet but let me chime in, ive a 1.4L rover k-series, with awesome intercooling she was det limited at 19psi of boost.. woth water meth on the exact same engine i could go to 30psi of boost and never found the boost/det limit as the turbo was becoming inneficient. Water meth is under-rated

Both

You make some good points regarding the temperature of the sensor being affected by fluid, it should be helpful if the same fluid wetting the sensor is also cooling the intake runners and other parts of the intake tract. One of the design considerations for the AEM water/meth test rig used during the V3 injector development was adding a muffler to keep one of the temperature sensors from getting wet during the test. There are some screen captures showing the difference as 'Post Nozzle Pre-Muffler Temp' and 'Post-Nozzle Post-Muffler Temp', near the end of this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aooi3Y9YuGQ.html , it looks to me that the dry sensor is warmer than the wet sensor by at least a few percent.

Great content but moment of Roger takes it!

Good video with good data. Where did you find the intercooler tank that was used inside the car?

Another thing that folks don't understand is the parasitic loss driving the whipple. There is none with the sledgehammer.

Great video! Curious point you highlighted regarding the cyclic oscillations in the boost curve when the meth is on. Just know how my pump in my setup runs, have you compared the frequency of those oscillations with the frequency at which the pump is driven? Assuming it is PWM same as my setup you might be seeing cyclic pressure oscillations in the manifold based on the meth pump injection frequency, not sure what sort of resolution you have in the logging setup. Keep up the good work.

what about combineing air/water intercooler with methanol injection? i mean you already have both setup why not tho

lmao that intro

Nice video! you mentioned injecting methanol pre will shift the compressor map. How much do you believe in hp you were able to shift the map and keep the same efficiency?

will you ever install an interchiller? would be a good DIY addition

Well, very nice video. I have installed Snow Performance stage1 wmi kit and i want to add fuel at my setup. What is the proper mixture for maximum power gain? 50/50 meth/water, 80/20 or 100/0 methanol? Thank you in advance

I wonder what would happen if you ran both?

How practical would it be to up the eturbo to the wipples' boost levels... What number would that entail eturbo hp/watts, rpm, mass flow etc, motor hp, wheel hp etc....

15:43 use both.

I've been following your progress and it's very interesting. I'm installing a p-2 on a 2009 5.7 charger using an 80 tooth crank pulley to 20 tooth pulley on a 5/8 bar that drives a 40 tooth pulley to the 18 tooth p-2 supercharger to get it up to 53000 rpm. I'm switching to ceramic bearings to handle the rpm. I had an idea, could couple a tesla motor to the crankshaft directly or via pulley for a very tunable extra horsepower adder? Thanks for all the helpfull info!

Any data on 50/50 water meth?? Many suggest theres better cooling over 100% meth. Pretty sure extensive research was done on jet engines during WWII.

Have you tried the electric turbo with intercooler.. and I would actually like to see an intercooler used as a intercooler not after lol

This is a poor comparison IMO. You need to put a decent A2W on your current setup for an apples to apples comparison. They are cheap. Y pick up power over the meth, I guarantee it. A decent A2A IC would pick up over your meth inj as well. But at low boost, I don’t think it would be justified cost wise. What was the pressure drop across the core of your cooler? Regardless of the amount of ice melted, your A2W was not performing well. For a like comparison, a cheap china “boost chiller” unit would keep charge temps in the 65-75* range at 25lbs+ with ice water. That’s with ambient temps in the high 80’s and less flow than you were running. The other big caveat IMO is tuning differences, specifically with Ign lead. If meth was truly a great “charge cooler”. You’d see the same performance gains as intercooling with no timing adjustments made. Water/Meth is more like a race fuel IMO. Your gains are mainly from its ability to allow more timing and/or boost. The IAT data is bunk, period. Logically the air has no TIME to allow heat to be pulled from it. Its in and out of the cyl in a millisecond. The sensor that’s sitting in the stream of fluid is having heat constantly pulled form it over A LOT of time.

Ok but how much horsepower does the supercharger use?

The one thing I don't like about meth injection is you have to tune for it because the methanol is displacing fuel. Therefore you would have to have a fuel map to account for the additional methanol fuel in order to take advantage of it. Maybe I would consider just water injection instead

Hi...I noticed you said you run mufflers What mufflers do you run... with boost?

At 30% methanol 11.3:1 is very lean. Methanol works excellent at 40-60 psi boost with no intercooler, but you better be ready to buy injectors. 16 minimum on a V8. Better damn well have a flawless ignition system too. At WOT if it misfires once it will hydrolock that cylinder and destroy everything.

Do you still have the copper cooler?

Does the Methanol spray actually hit the vanes ? and at what point will it erode the vanes? Does your datalogging software allow for other external data channels like driveshaft RPM, or transmission pressures?

Since your using the meth as a fuel supplement, are you not worried about distribution between cylinders? would a direct port kit not be more ideal?

Roger needs more boost

how did you get the electric motor aligned with the impeller shaft?

I can show you how to make a A2W system that will have the same IAT's as the meth.

11:00 Welp! It can carry a tire!

your dog likes water cooling more than meth..

All in favor of breaking bad habits and start calling aftercoolers what they all

Now use meth and nos... and hydrogen peroxide...