Airplanes Are About To Get Cheaper If This Passes 

Imagine a kit showing up just like an RC ARF - Almost Ready to Fly... open boxes, assemble wings, tail, install avionics and engine and fly...

If the 51% rule gets scrapped, you could probably order an experimental right from the factory. What would prevent them from building the kit, shipping it across the road the a „build facility“ aka factory part two and completing the plane there?

The notice of proposed rule change is due out by August. There will still be 18 months of reviewing all public comments before it will go into effect. Light Sport rules include 1. Increased weight 2. Higher speed 3. Four seat aircraft 4. Constant speed prop 5. Retractable gear( Light Sport amphibious planes already have them).

Great information as always Mike. We like so many others have been tracking this closely. This will be a huge advantage for our two experimental aircraft the Stream and the Sparker as they are already factory finished aircraft.

I looked into building a lancair 4p about 20 years ago. Actually flew the factory prototype. At that time fast build kit, engine, prop and planned avionics was about $250k, and lancair claimed 1000 hours build time. I flew my turbo arrow to Oshkosh dreaming about how much quicker the trip would be in a 4p. There were 6 completed 4p and 4's. Spoke with the owner/builders and learned the build time was 4000 to 7000 hours and the total costs were $500k to $700k and average build time was 5 years. At that time you could buy a mid-time turboprop for $500k, fully certified, pressurized, 6 seats, and 75 knots faster than the 4p. But, the real kicker was the insurance. I was paying about $2500/yr for the turbo Arrow, and the quote for the 4p was $12,000/yr. In the end my time had value... couldn't really see spending 3 to 5 years of my time. We then considered a Lancair Columbia which would be fully certified, but there was a lot of schedule uncertainty. To be sure the lancair's are awesome planes. If you decide to build a kit talk to the other builders to get your expectations correct.

There is an even bigger impact: most kits do not get assembled and registered. Because the entire process is so time intensive and bureaucratic, most owners buy a kit, start to assemble and for whatever reason never finish. I don't have the numbers right now, but I've seen an article some time ago on this. If the build assist team is allowed to do the majority of the work, then there will be more aircraft in the sky and our hobby may finally get out of the endangered species list.

If what you say does come to fruition, I fear a very different possibility - If the 51% rule is eliminated or severely relaxed, I do agree that more build facilities will pop up AND build assist prices "could" actually go down due to increased competition. However, if more and more people have Experimental aircraft built by professional facilities, then these "professionally built" experimentals will command a much higher resale price than those aircraft built by "Johnny in his garage". The price of quality built experimentals will go UP, the resale value of true "Home builds" will go DOWN and the certified market prices will remain completely unaffected. Certified aircraft prices will continue to rise year after year as there are still a ton of people out there with more money than sense.

Would be great to unload a 40' container with an almost ready to fly TSI or HW assembled and painted at the factory. Just attach the wings and ready to go 😎

The Steel is a certified S-LSA made by Rupert Aeronaves in Brazil . A brand new one (TSN 0) cost only U$ 95.000. Excellent for training (can be used to take a Private Pilot’s License and Sport Pilot’s License) and hobby. It is cheaper and quicker to own an LSA than to build an Experimental.

I completed my VansAircraft RV7A 10 years ago. Zero time on the airframe and a brand new engine. I can cruise at 165 knots, (190mph), with the Lycoming O-320 160 HP engine. Now think about a certified aircraft... to get a new engine and zero time airframe with close to the same performance would have been nearly $500,000.00. That's a half million bucks!!! I completed my plane for less that 20% of that. If you have the time to build, experimentals are the way to go IMO!

I would like to see the Grumman Tiger with fuel injection (True Flight Aerospace) back in production. Paying CLOSE attention to the weight and useful load when it's built. Hopefully under 200-250K. With it's bonded wing I don't know if it could be a good homebuilt candidate, but the lack of rivets is one reason the airframe is so efficient. Sure does look like a Van's Aircraft admittedly

I built my experimental in 1992-1993. A very enjoyable time but you are right. It requires patience. Now don’t forget that Light Sport was also created to free up flying to people with medical imitations.

Thanks for the update, Mike.

Dude you do an amazing job explaining these topics for the masses of aviation!

I am new to the private air scene and this is the most informative video I have seen, great job and keep up the good work.

Mike', thank you for the update....How do we get behind this wonderful change to push it through? Who do we contact? Can we sign a petition?

Hi Mike. I just subscribed to your channel. A lot of really great information. I'm actually about to get my pilot's license but want to purchase an LSA. I know an LSA license is much cheaper but getting my pilot's license will not have any limitations on me in the future. The sole reason for me wanting an LSA is getting a "newer" vs. "older" (with potential problems even though they are generally reliable). However, I am still shocked that the LSA cost is still high, i.e. LSA range (my range) for $100K - $150K vs. older for $50K - $75K. I really hope the LSA cost or Experiemental cost for that matter goes down. As much as I would LOVE to have an LSA or Experimental, the cost will dictate what I do when ready to purchase. Hoping to purchase in the next 6 months. Blows me away, however, that hanger availability in my area (Austin, TX) will also dictate when I purchase. Hangers, tie-downs, and overhangs are very hard to come by around here. There are waiting lists everywhere.

Thanks for another great video. I do have a question for you, not sure it if it would be video material, but... I notice the Rotax and a few other engines for experimental aircraft list premium unleaded ( auto) fuel as suitable. Does that mix with 100LL, are there different power characteristics or labelling requirements? How would I know if I rented an airplane that another pilot had added a different fuel?

You can buy a completely assembled experimental airplane as well. And as an owner of an experimental aircraft the biggest benefit for me is the ability to do all of my own maintenance and I just need an a&p not an IA for a conditional inspection.

Mike, I have dreamed of being a pilot all of my life. I'm 60 years old and have a couple of health issues so my dream will never come true. I really like your channel because you are so full of information and almost make me believe my dreams can come true. Thank you for your effort and keep it coming, I will always be here watching!

Never heard of it, tanks for the info Mojo.

Fantastic news, thank you! :) I'm looking forward to purchase and aircraft some time in the future.

Mike, enjoy the updates. My brother works at North Perry in Florida and will be static to know if this passes. Please continue to keep us informed.

Fantastic video! Thank you for making this.

The three major factors in determining insurance costs are: How many companies are in the market, How available are parts for the airplane you are insuring (example would be higher for airplanes where the parts have to be imported from another country) and pilot experience in that airplane.

Sounds great. The problems where I live is an actual place to build or store any plane you built. All the airfields around me have 2-10 year wait list on hangers and that is not even fully enclosed hangars. That leaves aircraft you can store at home and trailer to your airport, but there are very few aircraft you can do that with. Thanks again your well-produced and informative videos.

Awesome information. Thanks for all your videos!

Just started watching your channel - I really appreciate the links within the video. Don't stress if you can't break up every video like that, but its a cool feature YT has, and I wish others would make use of it as well.

Hey Mike thanks so much for the info it's greatly appreciated. sincerely Erin

Great to hear from Yah, Mr. MoJo.

I think it will affect pricing of experimentals in that - name brand builds will be priced at a premium to smaller lesser known home built brands. I doubt it affects the certificated market all that much. I think their will always be a gap - and the gap is measured by warranty, company, service etc. Because you just dont know what you are getting with an experimental - it could be poorly constructed or it could be well constructed. At least you generally know what you are getting with a certificated one. I think things will stratify - just like the MOH engine side - like a western airways, or penn Yann aero, RAM aircraft overhauled engine is worth more than some others.

I believe that prices will be dropping on used aircraft shortly, simply due to market conditions.

One correction. There are factory built aircraft in the Experimental category. They are not all homebuilt.

I certainly hope you are right!

This is super cool! Thank you!

Thank you for this info

Hi Mike. What benefits of the experimental and light sport aircraft designation are not transferred to the buyer when purchasing an aircraft used from the original builder.

If the LSA is expanded, how exactly would it affect preexisting experimental certificates (i.e. if there is a is a verifiable maintenance log, that the FAA can use as datum)? Although beyond the scope of most (due the manufacturing complexity), it would be rather curious how the FAA will manage 3D printed components for airworthiness standards

I will come by your facility soon I hope to build or get it built! This rule should hopefully increase supply, lower costs overall even for those who build in their garage, and maybe even safer if build facility quality is without shortcuts as some might take building at home. I personally wouldn’t have the time to spend 2000 hours building, as That time easily would be worth $500K for me and won’t be worth the experimental route. Hopefully it get more people into aviation.

I thought one of the other big reasons of light sport is less Med. requirements. Is this still true? Thanks

Hey Mojo, have you heard anything about this change from the FAA?

Another great informational video Mike.. I hope this rule passes. Aviation should not cost as much as it does.. It's keeping a lot of potential great pilots grounded.

Reminds me of a trick I heard of ..starting a personal company. (Your to only owner etc) .. contract a mechanic as a employee to build the plane, for the company. .. mechanic leaves, but plane is company property built by a company employee.

My take is "Awesome!" I've always wanted a kit plane for cost and performance reasons. Perhaps by the end of this year, I can place the order to have the factory build one out for me because I don't have the skills, space to build, or the time to invest in building. Fortunately, Vans Aircraft is in my area, so I could see it in progress (perhaps).

I know a few people who build and flip experimental planes. They make pretty good money doing it. Once you have the tools and know how you can build them pretty quickly

Will the MOSAIC program also increase the number of seats in a light sport from 2 to 4? If not, the sling tsi isn't going to qualify.

what is that display panel in center , bottom

Excellent knowledge, fantastic video!

As we are all aware, one of the great benefits of owning an experimental is the ability to work on your aircraft and the better understanding you have of your airplane when you are involved in building it. I am curious to know, will the more liberal rules on maintenance of self built experimentals stay the same under this new rule?

One other thing that make s sense in my head. Increased weight of the light sport would allow for less complicated/expensive/exotic/engineering intensive parts in existing light sports.

Great intro, from someone with real "skin in the game." Well done!

You learn something new every day, thank you

Great job Mike maybe you can do a monthly videos of your detailed experience in building your plane. What where some of the nuances and the perks and whittle it down to two categories.Those who would benefit from a build vs those who would get trapped into a project they end up not finishing and have to sell , because they under estimated the cost financially , physically , professionally and most important time that you can’t get back. The reason I bring this up is because I’ve been building cars for a while now and one of the biggest things I’ve learned about cars is that somebody is always selling a project that they can’t finish and they end up losing out. If this happens there’s gonna be a lot of cheap projects that are not finished that’ll be a steal . It happens all the time I the car game.

Dude, well done, top presenration.

The thing I wonder is with scale what sort of labor saving machines for metal work that may be too pricey for a homebuilder to use would start to come into play.

I dont think prices will come down when it's an opportunity for built assist and insurance to make more money but the 51% rule would be cool to see it go

Look at Glasair. Glastar was an expensive kit at the time (1990's) as compared to say RVs. The advantage was it was significantly done i.e. fuselage just needed a couple bulkheads and glassed together and to the cage, spars were built etc. Shifting to the Sportsman and two weeks to taxi program...that plane is now over $200k. Love to see the costs go down, but building a quick build kit on your own will still be significantly cheaper

Thats great news .. Thank You for sharing .. Cheers :)

I am hoping someone can help me. If this rule doesn’t pass and I get a kit and build it what is the timeframe to get the inspection for certification to fly?

Mike. I follow a lot of your channel. Dan Johnson has covered this in detail as well. I'm 60, got my license at 17, and haven't been current in the last 15-20 years. The main benefit I have currently with light sport is I only need a driver license to get going. I have some health consideration that the FAA medical and I need to do battle on. In the meantime, I can get the "touch" back by first go with a CFI, and then get the skills back. Is our elected officials in D.C. the right place to push?

Is there a light twin in this category?

Awesome rule change! I hope it passes. Great vid👍

Nice video. Clear and concise info. Thank you!

Is there a way someone can take advantage of their A&P in building experimental aircraft?

Do you think the SW 51 would then become a LSA with the new rules?

My insurance was cancelled and to get renewed with another company is 9400 per year. When I tried to get insurance years ago on an experimental it was 5500 annually without any accidents in history. That is the cost of another airplane in 5 years. For those of us who cannot afford to drop 75,000 down on an airplane and need to finance, insurance is gonna drive the lower middle class right out of the airplane market. This is a serious issue that threatens a large part of the market and premiums are gonna get worse. Any experimental will cost generally 5000 annually to insure. The resolution is to 1. determine the profit margins of existing carriers and if they are sticking it to us. 2. If they are not then determine how to rid the reckless from the insurance market and drive down the costs. OR 3. get finance companies to allow higher deductibles, lower insurance exposures etc.

I did my ppl training in a Remos GX LSA. The aircraft is really well put together and actually seems more legit than the 1980 C172 I was checked out in last month. The Remos has a glass cockpit, great handling and performance. The 172 has an old 6-pack and some add ons, but flying it was like driving a good old dependable pickup truck. One of these days I’d like to look at purchasing a plane of my own, but under the current rules, I can’t afford it. Until that time comes, I’ll keep renting the pickup when I need to haul stuff, and the Remos when I want to save a little rental fees. Thanks for the content!

Excellent news, Thank You

Factory’s already build light sport experimental airplanes ie kitfox the 51 % rule as it stands says if you don’t do it you can’t do condition inspection , so if your thinking this part will change it would be extremely helpful to owners to preform their own condition inspection 😊

As someone who has participated in building an experimental aircraft, do you think it makes you a better pilot to take part in the build? I mean, I imagine that it would give you a more intimate knowledge of the aircraft and could help you, especially in an emergency, but even just in pre-flights, to figure out what is wrong, or where to look for problems. Do you agree?

What happens in August this year ('23) is the FAA ***MAY*** release a Notice of Proposed Rule-Making (NPRM) on MOSAIC (Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certificates) - NOT implement any rule changes that are currently in effect. That's all. And, this particular NPRM has been delayed before, which means that it can be delayed again. The release of the NPRM opens a window in which Public Input is considered. Insurance companies, aircraft manufacturers, Aunt Hazel, etc., will be able to offer their input. What you're doing here is counting your chickens before the chickens that will lay the eggs of the chickens might hatch. I expect the aircraft manufacturers will vehemently oppose any changes - until they get a release date on what they can offer in the New LSA Category. Insurance rates going down? Laughable.

If the sling becomes a LS then you can no longer fly it under IFR correct?

A friend of mine looked into building a high-wing sling. What ended up stopping him was the insurance costs. Insuring a new Sling was going to cost him 3 to 5 times what he was already spending. Could you speak to that cost?

Assuming this all passes... Jimmy's World fleet is about to grow...

big benefit of building your experimental yourself. if you build it, you can work on it, instead of paying an A&P to do everything. Still have to have an annual, but not by and A&P.

Thank you very much.

Owned an AA-1 Yankee about 20years ago. Being and A&P I thought it would be a easy and cheap to maintain, I was wrong. Still needed to pay an I.A. to do my annual every year, and even though I did my own maintenance, parts still cost an arm and a leg. It was a fun little plane to fly but I eventually sold it just because it wasn't as cheap as I thought it was going to be, you can only justify a $100 burger run to your wife for so long. Told myself I would never own another airplane unless I built a Kit. Retirement is coming quick, so I'm starting to look at some!

With them waiting until August to release,… you think they will announce it at Airventure?

If they could bring the cost of the LSA cert and aircraft together (maybe have an aircraft company offer a package deal at their own flight school?) down to about the level of a personal watercraft, you'd have a lot of us lined up around the block for one.

This is one of the few examples where I can legitimately say "just do what Canada is doing". In Canada we've had the ability to have someone else build our planes. It results in much better build quality and lower costs. Canadians can do ALL their own maintenance regardless of who built the plane. You as the owner, are able to do the work. In fact, you can do all the work on your neighbor's plane too, simply because it's a home built. Speaking of maintenance, we also have the "owner maintenance" category of certified planes. You buy a certified plane and declare it "owner maintained" and you can treat it like a homebuilt plane. As far as I'm aware, you can NEVER return an "owner maintained" plane back to certified status. I could be wrong about that but even if it is possible, it would be cost prohibitive to do so and there would be very little incentive to actually go that route. And if the US would adopt that category, we'd be able to fly those planes into the US, something we can't do today.

Will my cessna 150 qualify for light sport?

Looking forward to my first aircraft. I'm praying that the rules change. It'll make ownership more inviting.

Excellent video, subscribed

Your plane reminds me of my favorite Ww2 fighter, the P 51 also flown by the Tuskegee Airmen!!

Overall how long did it take to get your airplane built?

My friend has built 2 Rutans, he is working on his third. His builds were about 27 to 30 years ago. Im going to ask him about the costs of inspections and registration and regs. A Cozy And vari E.

You missed the perspective from a shops POV, that saved money could be tacked on by a shop becuz it’s essentially a 3rd party shop putting your plane together which means it’s their shop, their tools, their techs their space, time, etc. so that saved money could become tacked on prices

You can save money if you build it yourself....if you have the time and the skills to build it. And the work space. The fact is : Aviation ain't cheap.

Hello Mike; what is the white and red aircraft on the cover photo of this youtube post?

I have no problem with that. I’ve too A&P classes a few years ago.

Thank you so much for the update and your analysis. Very helpful.

Remember though if demand for constructors increases but the capacity to produce does not then the demand/supply imbalance will drive prices up, not down. Until new build capacity emerges to satisfy the demand.

Sounds Great

From what it looks like this would only apply to newly built airplanes. Any existing Experimental airplanes that meet the current or future Light Sport regulations could not be converted to Light Sport, correct? I realize any kit built by an individual probably may not qualify but I am asking about factory-built airplanes that get the Experimental destination because they don't really fit in another category. i.e. Pipstrel Virus SW (factory-built, light, too fast for Light Sport but could be administratively limited to Light Sport speeds)

I'm a bit confused. As it stands now, a pro shop can build the entire homebuilt airplane. As long as they put themselves down at the builder. When the problem arises is when the owner pays a shop to build his plane, then applies the for repairman certificate, so he can do all his maintenance and inspections. And in many cases knows very little about the plane someone else built. You didn't mention the repairman certificate, and how does this Mosaic affect that?

One requirement LSA aircraft have that experimental aircraft don't is that a certificated A&P mechanic has to sign off the annual condition inspection. If experimentals get recategorized as LSA will the builder still be able to perform that requirement? Could be a real moneymaker for your local A&P. Also, airworthiness directives can be issued on LSA aircraft.

The prices for certified aircraft are a direct result of Liability Lawsuits from Years ago. One in particular had a judgement so huge it literally caused Cessna to cease production of all Non-Commercial aircraft for a decade. When Cessna came back it was at around a 125% increase in price for a standard VFR 172. From around $85K to $185K, which has just progressed since them. Because of the huge increase, that caused less sales, driving pricing up even higher. People were Bemoaning Mooney finally closing their plant, but a Basic aircraft was running at around $850K. There was a time when the price of a GA aircraft was running in around about twice the cost of a new Car. Expensive, but reachable for the middle class. Over the last 30 years, New Airplanes (Certified) have been pretty much solely the purview of the Ultra-rich, Which is the reason EAB has really exploded. LS was supposed to take up a bit of the slack, but at $250K, you're back into the same issue of affordability. When I see a 172 that's almost as old as I am, going for well over $115K, there's a problem. On TOP of that, now you have insurance, and the premiums are through the roof, Annuals, Fuel Prices, even what are normally minor things like Oil Filters. Sometimes I really wonder if they aren't trying to Kill GA altogether. I did some looking around, Pre-Pandemic to start flying again...$225-250/Hr instructed $150/Hr solo for a 172. Thank Goodness for Flying clubs, because Honestly that's the sole really affordable route to getting a PPL anymore as far as I can see.

Is light sport limit goes up, people could probably fly a Cessna 140 with a light sport lisence. Old plane, but cheep to buy into. 20k-40k to get one, depending on if you want a beater or a healthy plane.

I don't see any article stating that the 51% rule is even up for debate. But plenty of articles discuss changing qualifications for LSA certification and training in experimental or LSA aircraft. I think the truth will come when the NPRM is available.

@MojoGrip - what is the name of the plane in your thumbnail??? Its absolutely beautiful