alanis in conversation with dr. ramani durvasala 

I was 12 when Jagged Little Pill came out. Classic through and through. I was 37 when I discovered Dr. Ramani. Thank you both. What a gift.

Such a good quote from Dr Ramani "The narcissistic structure is based on a delusional sense of perfection" and this is why they can't take any responsibility and can't accept feedback of any potential negativity. It is a life of walking on eggshells not to 'set off' the narcissist who--in return--debases and put downs others with no regard due to a lack of correct levels of empathy. It's truly a nightmare disorder

Dr. Ramani and Alanis? I never saw this collab coming: I'm a big fan of both of them.

Narcissistic parents completely shape the trajectory of a childs upbringing. Trust, love, empathy, mercy are all conditional qualities and a means to an end. It takes a lifetime to observe, accept, unlearn and relearn. It also has meant walking away from all of the family I have ever known. Thank you for the conversation!

Alanis is so humble even as famous and talented she is, she’s so relatable and kind.

Great to have this podcast back. My father was a narcissus. I've only just been diagnosed with autism at age 53. When I was young my father would call me partially retarded and encouraged my older sisters to call me that too. I could never understand why he was cruel, why he dominated to the point I was scared of him. Today I have no friends, I fear people. I surround myself with my horses and cats. Animals I trust, people I don't.

Thank you. Both of you. As a man who experienced 20 years of marriage unknowingly to a (after the fact) clinically diagnosed person with FULL spectrum Cluster B disorder and so much more… thank you for having this discussion and producing the content for awareness. The abuse and destruction these people cause should be a criminal offense. It is a battle of the soul; armor up! Healing and rebuilding in isolation and on my own. Stay alert! Stay alive! Stay strong! Peace ✌️

No contact is sometimes the only way. Normalise No contact.

7:55 "Living in a perpetual adolescence." - Exactly. Well said. And a great time for an Alanis Morissette album.

I love what Dr. Ramani said about teaching children empathy is a parent's highest calling because I raised two very empathetic boys, but this made life for them with a father who was diagnosed ASPD/NPD very difficult, and by society's yard stick I failed as a mother with my eldest son taking over my scapegoat role and his brother being the invisible child both had pronounced and diagnosed cases of CPTSD. One is working hard on healing at 26, but his older brother died of an accidental overdose a few years ago. As a mother, it was terrifying and heartbreaking to see what was happening to my children and not be able to protect them. It was also a highly narcissistic family so the only place they learned empathy was when they were with me, but ultimately I thought this set them up to be hurt even worse by their disordered family, especially their dad.

Thank you for letting me sit in. I felt a sense of 'library safe space' here. Refreshing. Alanis Rocks!

Oh my goodness, kids. When my son was in grade/middle school, and he was and is very intelligent, I would tell him that I cared much less about grades than if he was KIND to others. He is autistic, and was high enough functioning as to be able to somewhat mask this and get through high school but hated it. I am proud to say that he is still very thoughtful and kind. He struggles so much on other levels, but his attitude to life and others is healthy.

Alanis - Thank you so much for this interview. My wife felt so alone dealing with her family. I've seldom heard anyone approach narcissism with consciousness like you do. I wrote a book in 2009 called - "Get off your high horse and walk". I listed you as one of my heroes. It's so nice to feel that we are not alone, and I also feel that consciousness may be on the rise, and that is why there is so much awareness about narcissism. Things that were once hidden in the framework is now brought to light.❤❤❤

How is it that the brilliant Alanis Morissette never ages??? And, Dr. Ramani, for that matter! I want what they're having! Both precious gems!

Two very intelligent humans.

Two of my favorite people in the whole world ❤❤❤

I’ve been having a hard time leaving a narcissistic relationship and everything you said about this person rings so true about them. They are always playing the victim never taking accountability, feeling like they are better than most people , most people are stupid , but also feeling like he was a POS and unworthy. He would never ask me questions about myself, never wanted to define the relationship. I also felt so uneasy in his presence in a way I’ve never known before. It should have been easy to walk away from this but it wasn’t. One thing it did do was highlight my own shadows and I’ve learned to set better boundaries. Yesterday I was in the store and You Learn came on and had me in tears and then today this video popped up it definitely was divine guidance.

You should do a conversation with Joan Jett, since you're going to be with her on tour soon. Leading up to that, how about do a conversation with her? She's super spiritual, and it would be very interesting for fans.

Ms. Moristte has been a constant, and stable presence throughout my life.

Alanis’s smile can light up a room. 😊

What a gift 🎁💖 Two empathetic, introspective souls talking about the complexities of mental health with so much wisdom and compassion. Thank you 🙏🏻

Two people I love have come together!

Im a psychologist and my husband got involved in his company with the poster boy for cluster B personality disorders - indeed - a person who I consider to be a 'dark triad' . Sadly, this person managed to take over my husbands company and 'coming for us' legally / financially for several years. To understand the modus operandi and how destructive this person is has saved us from going quite mad. Listening often to Dr Ramani on the regular has been like getting coaching. We have needed that reinforcement that the person we are dealing with is never going to suddenly realise their behaviour is destructive and abnormal has helped us in our attempts to remain sane and survive. I feel like a I can better help those who have experienced orchestrated narcissistic attack - although its pretty draining to have to go through it for myself. I wonder If I will personally ever get to a place when I can talk about it without feeling like I have been run over by a truck.

Wow. Dear Dog...did this beautiful talented and wise Alanis Morisette just say that she identified with many traits of (Quiet BPD)?? I have even more respect for her now, for standing above the stigma that most attach to the DSM 'labels.'

I just LOVE you Alanis!!! Thank you for sharing your gifts and wisdom with us❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

What a treat! The Artist who penned the lyrics that helped me even to understand narcissism was a thing many moons ago (I'm 48) having a conversation with the person whose videos I have found very valuable in helping me to understand toxic humans and how to protect myself from them. I love this, thank you.

Alanis, thank you for your music and for continuing to share your path with us mortals. And BTW, there is NO new Alanis Morissette. There will never be another. You changed everything, and I hope the price wasn’t too high. Love and light

Painful when she mentions about someone stealing money from you because she actually lived that. 😢😢 Very necessary conversation. Alanis is gifted in so many ways. A huge addition to this world !!!!

I cannot express how helpful this conversation was for me to witness. I’ve found myself dealing with CPTSD and over the years going through stages of healing that closely resembled histrionic, borderline, and dissociative disorders. No official diagnosis however, all self diagnosed through learning from watching conversations like this one, and reading through research and the DSM which is extremely limited. And all of which has made me a bit of a magnet for narcissists, haha Ive joked that they can smell the weakness on me. All that is to say, I now find myself to be in a much healthier state of mind than I’ve ever been, no longer a magnet because I can spot them a mile away and maintain healthy boundaries! But this conversation was SO validating in understanding how my past disordered thinking and behaviors were overlapping in such a complicated fashion that it’s really hard to put a permanent label on these symptoms. It’s my theory, and personal experience, that people can move through these sorts of disorders and heal from them when there’s a focus on self with intentional healing. And access to information and conversations like these helps immensely. Thank you for your work Dr. Ramani, and Alanis, you helped me through some very difficult teenage years in a profound way, and to my shock again now in my forties. Thank you both so much for sharing this with us. ❤🎉 P.S. I’d absolutely love to see you two collaborate a conversation with The Crappy Childhood Fairy.

I used to drive up to Port Angeles WA. in 96' delivering paint and listened to her CD there and back. What wonderful memories. Interesting I was definitely in the throws of these dynamics but had no clue then. How interesting!!! Time and space.

How is it possible that I dreamed this conversation just one month ago? I had a sudden strong desire to listen to Jagged Little Pill for days, and while I was doing so in a very mindful way, I just wished she could have a conversation with Dr Ramani. This is beyond amazing. Thank you both and everyone making this happen ❤

I just realized I also unconsciously turn my body whenever I have a conversation with someone I consider dangerous for me, narcissistic, antagonistic, malevolent etc. I think it is a way for the body to protect the solar plexus in physical terms..this is just my interpretation

Half Hungarian girl!....so awesome people are channelling into personality disorders....welcome to the club Alanis! Love you Dr Ramani...book is great.

Alanis- you are amazing. Godsend. Gratitude. Thank you Dr. Ramani as well!

I can't imagjne how many NPD's etc., Alannis has met in her time. Is great to see it being explained for broader audiences. I think it important to shine a bright light of clarity .

Alanis is such a beautiful person and so is Dr. Ramani. So glad we have awareness of this condition.

Well, this is a TOTALLY wild hook up as I like Alanis Morissette's music and of course... Dr. Ramani is able to describe and articulate my 66 years of life having been raised by an NPD parent.

lovely to listen to - thanks for doing it! i grew up with a covert narc mother, and alanis said somewhere something about lacking sense of self. i can relate SO much to that. fortunately for me, my mom's dead since over 20 years, but still, it took me a looong, long time to unlearn and relearn, and to find that sense of self. i do have it now, and i'll never let it go.

Whaaat! This is amazing! 💚 Dr Ramani is one of the most amazing people on this planet.

Despite the unpleasant topic discussed in the video, the conversation itself is a pure pleasure to follow. And the pleasure comes from Alanis’s genuine interest in the topic which made her well prepared for the discussion. The nowadays social environment in the West culture is screaming in despair to have such honest discussions about multiple topics, for example: the devastating effect the scientism has on the social fabric causing unprecedented scale of social alienation… Anyway. Thank you, Alanis! I love you endlessly my little sister and I send you the warmest possible greetings from Europe!

OMG! I’m so happy to find this video. Alanis is one of the awakened ones!! Yay!!! Another reason to be a fan! Isn’t it ironic? 😅

Dad died suddenly a month after I turned five. Mom tried to turn me into him. At 72, I'm multi-degreed, published, married & widowed, and still suffering from Mom..

I think Alanis is probably the smartest interviewer Dr Ramani ever had. What an insightful interviewer she is!!

Wow wow wow. One of the most healing conversations I’ve heard in a long time. ❤❤ Thank youuuu both

Two of my favourite women in this World ❤❤❤❤ What a gift you both are. Love you!

still looking as gorgeous as you did in 1996,when i saw you first, Alanis...your music,voice and calming reassurance is as beguiling as ever.

I just stumbled into here. Alanis on camera for an an hour? She has a channel where this is what she does?? What did I do to deserve such generosity??? I hang on her every word due to her clear genuineness (as opposed to the vast vast vast majority of others I know in the business). So I've jumped on it every time I've seen her interviewed. But ... now this ... whoa !!!

Alanis has an incredibly organized mind. she packed 6, 7 , 8 , 9 talks into a single talk, she got it all in. Amazing. Uma Thurmann's artwork now, is as important to me as Kimberly Shannon Murphy. I'm not into using competition as a leg up but I'm also not into the appearance of team work, for sake of control.

Intellectual intercourse! Thank you for this engaging discussion, Dr. Ramani Durvasala and Alanis! 💞

Wonderful interview Alanis, you clearly understand this topic far too well and I’m sorry for that. You deserve far better from everyone. From experience I know that actual intimacy is impossible with a narcissistic person and you nailed it when you mentioned an emptiness. I noticed that almost immediately but I thought I could “fix” it. I know now that it cannot be fixed and if it could be, it’s not up to me to do. I’ve subscribed and look forward to seeing more of what you share with us. Thank you again. And thank you Dr Ramani, your insights are immeasurably helpful!

Brilliant insights from both! My narc is very self satisfied and certain of his spiritual superiority and can hold forth for quite a long time about his ‘adventures’ in this realm while keeping a group spellbound. I’ve realized I must always keep my thoughts and experiences secret if I don’t want them mocked. Somethings are too precious to share. Like we’re often told, don’t cast your pearls before swine.

Thanks for a unique interview. I have been following Dr Ramani for years (I'm a clinical psychologist) and watch her interviews but notice people keep asking her very basic questions about narcissism. Thanks for having a bigger discussion about other PDs, particularly BPD and complex trauma as that's an area I work in a lot.

Those of us who have experienced/studied the behavior can spot them quickly, often with one look. Super, overly (trying too hard) "charming" loud people are very easy to spot. You can hear them coming. When they observe that you are not impressed (or falling for) their act, the smear will amplify. When the majority becomes aware, and the sick accept treatment, hopefully fewer enablers will be fighting/tormenting us. Thank you for taping this.

Wow! I’m so grateful for my mother, she was the opposite of a narcissist. Being her daughter has always been such an honor. Also that was so intense I’m exhausted. I need to sleep on all this and let it digest! Much thanks for the words and being present for sharing your compassion.

Wow 🥹 I was raised by a narcissistic stepmother. It was a very lonely struggle as a kid and young adult. To this day, the struggle still continues. It is so comforting to hear this being talked about more and more. Thank you. 🕯️✨

Love Alanis!!! Jagged Little Pill helped me get thru alot of childhood abuse back when i was 9-13 years old back in 95’ and beyond. Now I realize why I connected so well with her music and felt the passion she expressed everything you spoke in your lyrics! Love Alanis!

Amen! Dr.Ramani is truly doing GODS work, a gift from God I thank everytime for leading me to Dr.Ramanis you tube in 2022. So much Love for her saving me someone she had never met. There is a special place in heaven for her.

Alanis I’m so excited you have brought back your podcast. I love these so much, they have been extremely valuable to me on my journey. I would love if you had Eckhart Tolle on your podcast someday that would be a dream come true for me!

17:48 and already I pause this vid to sit in silence in order to truly absorb the amazing conversation & information up to this point. What a gift this is and I already see myself watching it multiple times even though I’m working through it for the very first. THANK YOU ladies for sharing this. I could not be more grateful. 🙏🏻 ❤❤🙏🏻 Deeply grateful.

This is a huge synchronicity. I just binged your podcast and woke up to a new episode. Please continue with this series. I feel you have so much to offer in this space

I have often wondered if narcissism is a degree of demonic possession in extreme cases...great conversation thank you, so much love to you both❤

I'm a 48 year old man. Jagged Little Pill came out when I was 20 in university and the cool kids listened to it. By the time I was working in London at 25, Under Rug Swept came out. It took me years to realise it was about gaslighting. For some reason this song comes into my head about once a week. I think my dad acts like the character in the song. 'If it wasn't for me you wouldn't have been successful'. Im a student of literature. From a composition standpoint its so clever the way Alanis speaks the words of the manipulator from the past, then answers the manipulator in the present.

What a great conversation! I love you both. Alanis, thank you for your new album, “the storm before the calm”. Perfectly needed.

Thank you Alanis for this passionate insightful interview with my favourite therapist Dr Ramani. I want to encourage you to keep these types of conversations going. Our world needs celebs with a passionate curiosity to plunge deep into mental health complexities mixed with relational, social complexities that manifest therefrom. And most of all lets talk about solutions to the complexities. I believe "Attachment Theory" would be a very poignant topic in this regard and even deeper and more expansive in awareness if we also include mental health diagnosises noted in the Dsm5. Bless 🙌 🌱🌳🌺

Thank you for having and airing this conversation. It's so hard to live with one with many of these traits for a long period of time. I'm trying to get away from one but it's very difficult.

My friend, you are the best singer I have ever seen.,. I simply love you ❤️

Alanis! I have been a fan of your music for minimum of the last 10 yrs. and beyond. Exactly from your lyric you have always ignited my curiosity regarding all the complexities of narcassism, its nuances and rollercoasters and to learn and gather more info to make better decesions. Dr. Ramni, I have been a student of yours for the last five years and you have been an incredible healing pivotal resource of education in so many ways. So grateful to you for all your work and advocacy of human behavior and what makes ys all tick. I compliment you both for such collaboration sharing your thoughts and the making of this broadcast. You two together mesh and embody eacjh other so beautifully in your conversation> It is absolutely incredible to engage in such informed canidates the flow so well with guidance and enlightenment. Such professional articulation and excellent intelligent effective conveyance of practical and pragmatic views you reveal all of our "Humaness" so amazingly! Kudos and namaste to you both🙂♥✨🙏 THANK YOU! I Survived BDP Post Trauma Dissociate disorders !!

Sooooooooooo glad to have you back!!!!! Thank you for all of your wisdom, and compassion 💖💖💖💖💖🙌you truly inspire the greatest healing ❤️‍🩹

I’m so happy to see you this morning, I’m always excited to listen to you and your amazing guests breakdown topics of interest!! You are my hero I hope to have the honor of shaking your hand and thanking you in person before I die !! ~blessings

Alanis is definitely categorizing the people she's had to deal with :) I would too!

Dr. Ramani has THE most keen knowledge of narcissism.

I've already watched Dr. Ramani's videos when I went through a traumatic breakup from a person with NPD. Now seeing my favorite artist having a conversation with her is the cherry on top. Please continue this. Alanis, you are so well articulated and the curious questions you were putting forth were so intriguing to listen to and watch.

Alanis! Ive been a fan since Jagged Little Pill! So awesome you have Dr.Ramani on, this is an important topic!

Robert Sapolsky and his research on stress is very important to this subject we all know too well. I know a lot about it, as I've lived it my whole life of 53 years. Right out of the gate, youngest of nine.

I am such a fan of both of you Dr.Ramani you have helped me so very much! Alanis, TY for this incredible collaboration of such an important topic! I truly am grateful for this conversation between the 2 of you as it was so informative and has so much gravity that resonates within me. Keep up the good work of self love and healing Alanis as I am inspired by your transparency and spirit! Dr. Ramani, words cannot express how very much you have helped me, especially last year. You are a gift from above for so many! Sending 🤍 to you both! ~ Love~Levity~& Light🕊️🕊️🕊️~Amy~

Alanis Morisette is cool.Always sane songs.❤

Thank you Alanis. I discovered Dr. Ramani also in search of insight and support dealing with a covert narc in my family. What a surprise to see you are a student of hers as well! I love you both. Thanks for sharing!

Not what I expected to have come into my RU-vid mix today, really cool!

Alanis! What a great interview! Thank you. I've been following Dr. Ramani for a while now, but never latched on the the words that you spoke "lack of curiosity". I was not versed and unaware of narcissism during my 30 year marriage to one, however became stunned during 9-11 at his lack of empathy. 'Lack of curiosity' will now be my second bell weather. Thank God he left me after 30 years when I think he realized I had his 'number'. After that I realized my father was also a narcissist and that I was pre-conditioned.

Thank you! So much! Watching a second time… so much shared. Learning about this is a game changer and loved Dr. Ramani’s comment right at the end about showing ourselves compassion and grace… amazing and so validating. 💫

I am not sure if this resonates with other viewers, but it is so refreshing to see one of my favourite musicians have this sort of conversation with an author of such calibre. This convergence explains why I enjoy the music and the lyrics so much, whilst going through similar experiences in life. Thank you both!

Love you so much Alanis I have been singing your music since I was quite young and still do and I'm nearly 40 your music touches my soul ❤

Saying we can't change IS a narcissistic trait. I LOVE how you looked into the camera when you realized just who you were talking to. WE can change & it's this ability that scares them the most because they cannot! Love you girl, I see your shine!

Two of my favourite people discussing such an important topic that affects all of us. Love it so much. xx

Grateful to hear the two of you luminaries share in detail these mental health issues we are ALL affected by. I have been following Dr Ramani on RU-vid for a while- Thank you both for shedding light on these complex human behaviors. More, please.

What awesome humans you both are ❤ your discussion made me think about what the future may hold as awareness around these issues improves…for one to one relationships (between narcissists and non-narcissists) but also for group dynamics and larger societal shifts…. If a group/society yellow rocks someone/certain characteristics (and rightly so to protect themselves) what will the narcissists do? will this lead to more narcissists reducing their abusive behaviours and perhaps seeking more help? I hope so ❤

My first piece of music was her cassette tape i bought at a gas station. Threw it in my colby stereo and wow. Now today i listen to the same songs and hear it so differently. I am so joyful to find this convo.

Alanis. I freakin love you. The only artist I've cared to see or meet in 30 years. I tried suggesting your song Narcissist on Dr Ramanis channel a few years ago. So happy to see you together. I feel like Alanis was my intro to narcissism AND spirituality. And thank God she was there. I also have to say semiunrelated, the most beautiful parts of all your songs to me is the crying out notes and the flute and harmonica solos. They all have their own feeling and each one to me feels like a sometimes painful call to God. And has been a great release for me when I don't have words.

i'm glad this artist went in this direction

My phone died. I’m actually feeling tired. I was so excited to see Alanis but maybe watch the rest when I feel rested up. I didn’t ghost anyone:). I’m actually recovering from the awakening and feel confident in life- It looks like it will take momentum before I am back to the crazy energetic self I had. All my best regards.

2 of my favorite people ever having a conversation about the most important subject of our day. So glad this popped up in my feed! ❤

At 40:00 ❗️Dr. R. makes a very important point of insight everyone would do well to pay attention to. And that is, (1) Who is vulnerable to getting "pulled in " by the charms and manipulation? Anybody. Anyone in any class or socio-economic level can be attracted and interested to some degree. But then... there is the question (2) Who are the people that GET STUCK there in that mess of a relationship / tangled chaos? Thank you for discussing that important difference and how we can educate ourselves and develop a strong defense against that ploy, trick, trap.

I imagine these are a lot of work but I really really wish these could be done more often. It’s so informative and interesting. Thank you for bringing this to us!

I absolutely love how self-aware you are, Alanis! I saw your concert in Nashville on Sept 15, 1996. Always a fan!!

Two of my favs right here! I’ve been to two of Alanis’ concerts back in the 90’s. Love her and Dr. Ramani!!

Thank You both. A lot of knowledge and experience shared.

So deeply appreciative for this conversation… thank you, my friend!!

Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Thank you Dr. R. This August 2024 will be two years zero contact. It took about two years for me to be 100% sure that I was doing the right thing because I knew that zero contact with my mom would alienate me from a lot of my family. Or at least make things quite uncomfortable in a family where we were all raised to put a smile on our face. In addition, over the past 4-5 years I’ve had to end some friendships because I’m a rockstar when it comes to codependency, people pleasing, forgiveness… I love to compliment people and build them up. At one point during my healing journey, I began to wonder if I was actually creating narcissists. Lol! Thank you both!🙏🏼💕

Wow far out, what an amazing and intelligent conversation. So glad to have discovered this channel, thanks @Alanis Morissette 🙏I was raised by a narc caregiver and lost my identity which resulted in a midlife crisis and mental breakdown. I really appreciate what I've been able to learn from others in this topic, and quite interesting to see more than a few child actors talking about similar issues and adverse childhoods with crazy narcissistic parents. There's understanding and connection in sharing. Thanks!

All we LOVE you Alanis!!! ❤❤❤❤❤