Thank you for this! I have lived with an overt narc for over 30 years and after watching this now wonder if I have covert tendencies. ?? very thought provoking.
I escaped a marriage with a covert narcissist, to run right into the arms of an overt narcissist. Dad was an overt narc, hence I didn't notice anything wrong for so long. And I thought Id done so well finding a husband who was the opposite of my father! Not! My husband didn't care about my happiness, and I was just getting sicker and sicker. He couldn't see that he was causing it and only cared about how this looked on him that I was leaving him. He tried to physically restrain me and had a huge psychic grip on me. I don't think he was just antisocial. I did feel something wrong with him at the beginning but I was already so in love with him and needed his acceptance, that I disregarded this early warning that had frightened me. It was his REM sleep disorder that scared me and the types of nightmares he had. I worry about my 21 yo son now. I'm glad he no longer lives with him.
Mum is one. There's another element to the fragile vulnerable narcissist. Others feel confusion around them. Possibly because of the vulnerable narcissist 's up-down spirals. One minute thier superior to everyone else & the next minute thier anxious & fearful. The confusion is the most valuable because that alone tells us that we're dealing with a Covert/ fragile/ vulnerable narcissist.
Coverts also triangulate a lot. They tell us about other people who comforted them today, who entertained them, invited them to a dinner. Making us compete to take care of them, comfort, compliment, pulling them up etc. Very exhausting. Thank you for a great video.
Oh wow, you just described my mother. She will go down a list of people would she could ask for help WHILE on the phone with me asking for help. It’s like she’s treating me like a stranger or acting like I’m complaining when all I’m trying to do is help when she asks. It’s the most frustrating and invalidating feeling ever.
The overwhelmingly exhausting negativity of the covert narcissist also comes with an underlying message that it's your fault they are not happy. You are not working hard enough for them.
Was married to a Covert Narrisist for 28yrs, he portrayed perfect husband outside the house but BY GOD behind closed doors wss COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, Now divorced and live in PEACE
My brother is a covert narc. My breaking point was listening him sharing his latest detailed victim story to his close friend who burried his father an hour earlier. Such lack of empathy, respect and concideration of a person in grief. Unbelievable
Straight up, I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist. I took a weekend trip for the funeral of one of my best friends, and my ex partner called me to tell me she felt like I was ignoring her and having fun with friends and taking the opportunity to get away from her. I was grieving.
Hi Terri, You just described my covert narcissist of 30 years! They abuse their intimate partners & children, everyone else thinks their kind and generous. The passive aggression wears you down. The constant undermining. Finally left him after 30 years of emotional abuse.
Good on you, sounds like the way my father was to my mother. Destroyed all 5 of my siblings life, I was the only one that got away and my mother who was once full of fire, passion, creativity and excitement after years of chaos,devaluation, triangulation died at a very early age of 67 during covid. She adopted poor earing habits as a coping mechanism to what she did not know was psychological abuse. I'd never seen anyone more happy the him as he received so much attention. He smiled and whistled and laughed at all the attention. I'd rather my sweet mom be with the Lord than to have to be constantly vexed by the demons that possess my father. Thank God that He is my heavenly Father who has loved, healed, and validated me through Christ Jesus.
They are the most miserable, self-hating snd loathing, passive aggressive, vindictive, boring energy vsmpires. And they mirror OUR empathy to others. I think they seek empathetic people to feel what it's like to have real emotions and help them navigate the world they simply can never authentically know. Victim victim victim. They are so boring!!!
You've met my sister then? 😂 No one in the world is as hard working, clever, or organised as her, apparently. Can't gain any fun out of anything, was even a misery on a trip to Venice. Total knowitall, but you can't tell her anything. Absolute piece of work!
My mother was a covert narcissist and I agree, they are more dangerous and damaging. I always felt something was very wrong with her and her treatment of me my entire life but it wasn’t until I was nearly 50 and she died that I finally realized that she was a covert narcissist. Her damage to my childhood and growing up created a life in which I married an overt narcissist that ruined my life. I was subjected to many narcissistic people throughout my adulthood and even was lambasted by a communal narcissist. That was the one that I never saw coming and I think are the most destructive and dangerous; this person robbed me blind and took me and everything I worked hard for back to square one and even negative ground to make up. I went into deep learning about myself so I could learn how I was attracting all these narcissists. One is because I’m an empath and HSP, I seem to attract them as well as being somewhat codependent…people pleasing leftover from avoiding my mother’s rage.
I am witnessing you with so much compassion and sending love 💕 In my experience, yes, HSPs and empaths do tend to attract these types of people because they love our light. You might want to check out the most recent interview I did with Ross Rosenberg, as he is an expert in this codependent/narcissist dynamic: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ShnQO7jyBwE.html
This was a perfect explanation of what it’s like to live with a vulnerable narc. It is insidious and very difficult to detect. You just know there’s something going on and your body is feeling it as well.
So real. Even worse, I think, trying to confront them is literally impossible unless you come with a literal binder full of evidence and examples. Their ability to manipulate emotions, especially through guilt tripping, in my experience usually based on the times they have been nice to you (aka meeting the bare minimum of a healthy human relationship) and acting like they've done nothing else and are a veritable saint. The lack of self-awareness is palpable and depressing.
I worked for one for years, and the emotional drain was intense. Only being away from it now for a few months I realized the toll it took on my own mental health. No more walking on eggshells!!
I am married to a vulnerable narcissist and every point you make is spot on, especially the part where you talk about the negativity. I am about to do something about it, an appointment with an attorney next week. The thing is that with a vulnerable narcissist you can be stuck in this relationship for decades before you piece together what is really wrong (25 years before I figured it out). The vindictiveness is what I am most afraid of right now, so I am getting out bit by bit without alerting her to what I am doing. I really hope that a lot of people view this video, since it might just help someone avoid being stuck for as long as I was. Thank you for putting this out there.
I have experienced their lack of empathy and their acting as if! It was the first characteristic of a narc that caught me by surprise - zero gratitude, in large amounts for favours extended to them
I ended up feeling responsible for him, like he "needs" me to protect his fragile vulnerability. All while he treated me like his mommy, took me for granted, used me as a tool/ toy, sucked up all of my time and thoughts trying to make him happy, buying him things, doing things for him that he could do for himself. All the while complaining to anyone who would listen when I wasn't in earshot about how "mean" and "angry" I am to poor little him all the time. And going to other women because he got "scared and confused" about his emotions. ugh.
So happy to have found this channel. An ex friend is def a vulnerable narc. I knew 'something' was off when I first met her but couldn't put my finger on it. Initially, it was the chronic complaining, victim mentality (very quick to share her horrible childhood, horrible marriage - usually people don't overshare right up front - they hold off until they know they can trust you), blaming others for HER decisions in life and on and on it went. Finally, after years, I started to see the entitlement issues - her inviting herself to events that were NOT appropriate for her to attend - my vacations, my family reunions, an invite from a childhood friend who had moved several states away and wanted me to come visit. In all of these cases, the vul narc didn't know any of these people - she just hated the fact that I had a life. I enforced my boundaries (that I have no problem enforcing). In all cases, she pushed back and back and back, played the guilt card. I finally told her, "You don't have to 'get' it but you do have to respect it" - she just had zero insight/empathy - she minimized my feelings, etc. She just didn't think my boundaries (that honestly, I didn't have to enforce with anyone else but her) applied to her because she really felt my boundaries didn't apply to her - when I assured her that they did. She was just that black hole that couldn't be filled - never happy or content. I'm speaking in past tense because I stopped participating in that friendship - her negative vibe was overwhelming. That feeling that I was really dealing with a five year old trapped in a middle aged woman's body - is very real.
You hit the nail on head when you said she had a black hole that couldn't be filled. They're a endless black hole of neediness that will take your soul, if you let them.
Thanks for this episode Terri. I am 71 divorced from a physically and mentally abusive husband over 25 years. 2 days ago I told my 37 married daughter with kids that she is a narcissist through and through because of her verbally abusive relationship with me and her rage. I suspected she did not have real empathy and now I am convinced. I am experiencing a repeat of her father's abusive behaviour to me. I have decided I will not trust her anymore and only tough love will work. She has no remorse about any hurts she causes me.
Covert narcissists also love bomb, invalidate, discard and hoover, they are just usually more introverted about it. So while an overt narc might love bomb with gifts, nights out and physical looks the covert narc will love bomb with fake emotions and instant intimacy, they might say you are their soul mate etc.
Been dating one for 5years i couldnt understand the blame shifting, i thought for a long time something wrong with me. It was always about him, taking care of him, understanding him the minute i raised my need THE AGGRESSION and BLAME became too much. Im not hurt now cos i cried a lot in the 5 years blaming myself, trying to make my relationship work, he would break up with me and i would panic, even though i was not in the wrong i would end up apologising. I would feel so small and one day i saw a message to his friend as to how stupid i was, Im done I cant nurse this person no more
I was married to a VN for 39 years. A psychiatrist. Super dedicated to caring for his patients. Who were so grateful. And he bragged about how every patient wanted him as their doctor. Admitted to living vicariously through my (big and genuine) emotions. Told me he imagined himself as Indiana Jones. Admitted to not wanting to engage in conversations that were beneath or uninteresting to him. If he ever teared up he always made sure I saw it. Arrogant. Superior. Always deflecting blame back to the point that I just stopped expressing concerns about any behaviour. And if I did get angry I was accused of bottling up...why didn't I share that concern earlier. I spent years twisting and turning myself into pretzels, losing myself, to be the person I thought might make him be nicer to me. I actually felt proud of the work I was doing to really take him and his feelings into consideration. And when I went back to therapy prior to finally leaving him he told people that I was "trying to find myself". He refused to have therapy because he was fine. Open to couple's therapy though...triangulation? I repeat, he's a psychiatrist. Agony. I'm just over a year out and every interaction with him (as we divorce) does nothing except reinforce who he really is and how important it was that I left. What I will finally add...it's so important to him that others see him as the Nice Guy that he always behaves when there's someone else in the room. Including the lawyers...
I feel every word. I’m not married but my mother is exactly like this. The negativity is breaking me. It must ruin their mind to see how crap the world is compared to their entire perfection! The insensitive digs about how fat I am, how my clothes are disgusting all in times where I am helping someone or having a good time. She is a bitter and nasty person. She released the true demon last week demanding to do it in front of my 11 yo daughter and my partner. She wanted to degrade, embarrass and turn my family against me… all because I didn’t pick her up from the bus (I have my reasons and I never say no normally, I bend over backwards for her as I know how vicious she is) well the fight turned against her. Everyone saw her true colours. While I think the last fractured piece of my puzzle finally broke, the one that links me to her. I’m done! But I have suffered with INTENSE anxiety since then as I know that her storm will come again, fiercer… soon! I want it all to end. I am a very happy person with a beautiful family and great job. I want to focus all my energy into these positive aspects. Thank you @terri_cole for your videos… they are helping me understand what I have and am going through… wish you could wave a magic wand for me and make it all go away x
You just described my Mother to a "T". It's a highly damaging pattern to grow up with. The child (me) isn't allowed to have boundaries. So, your book and all the info is helping me recover. Thanks, Terri. You are grand.
The part of “believe they’re superior” is so difficult b/c this is a lie that narcissists use when they feel like people who are genuinely kind, giving, considerate and happy don’t absorb their passive aggressive bad moods…like they feel jealous and spread lies like that when others don’t absorb their emotions or tend to their needs or even when other offer advice to help. The part also about “faking empathy I think is nuanced b/c they use this when people don’t get it exactly right with meeting their unspoken needs/expectations (esp if they’re passive aggressive and don’t speak about their needs outright)…like they feel if someone claims to be compassionate and empathetic the person should meet their needs exactly how they want (like people should read their mind and know exactly when they want/need)…so there’s a sense of entitlement there. It definitely can be hard to spot but I think the top is entitlement, passive aggressiveness, triangulation and unwillingness to accept feedback and take accountability. I feel like we all make mistakes are are capable of accountability, but people with really strong narc tendencies are not able to take accountability and don’t consider others
Thank you, this rings so true. I just had brain surgery and my mam has made it all about her. How hard it is for her, that I’m having surgery. I just got out the hospital and she isn’t speaking to me because I haven’t made her feel important enough while I was in the hospital - and of course the filing cabinet of everything I’ve ever done to upset her is opened at the opportunity (including that I didn’t have the tv on loud enough last Christmas 🤯, deliberately to make her feel unwelcome in my home - not true at all). It’s so mind boggling that when I tell other people they think I’m exaggerating or I’ve misunderstood. No one understands, which is why Terri’s videos are so important to me. They give me validation that I’m not the problem and have helped me to understand that I’ve been hoping for a motherly relationship I’ll never receive.
Witnessing you with so much love and compassion, Em ❤ That sounds so painfully exhausting, especially after such a difficult surgery. I'm glad my videos have been validating (your feelings *are* valid!) Sending healing your way ❤
This resonates so much with my experience with my own mother too. I believe you, I hear you, I understand and I feel your hurts and frustrations so much. Sending love and empathy to you xxx
My 4 year old son's father is a covert narcissist and sociopath. This describes him to a T and terrifies me as me and my son are stuck in a very abusive situation he has managed to control. He treats my son like a toy he won't allow anyone else to "play with" meaning I was choked out by him just because my son wanted to sit with me on a rocking chair to go to sleep instead of laying in bed with him. He never has a positive thing to say about anything or anyone. Watching a movie or show is never enjoyable because all you hear is his comments and mostly criticism or what he would do in a particular scene that would be more practical. The revenge is also clarity to hear and I've been on point about. Though I've done nothing, others who have, I'm the scape goat, the scratching post for him to take it out on. I appreciate the confirmation on this type of person and now what to do.
I am so sorry to hear that. I have a video about safely getting out of an abusive relationship here that I invite you to check out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8AQEK62Jogs.html there are free resources that can help you in the description. ❤️
I'd never thought a narcissist could be anything but flashy... Definitely helpful. This part really got my attention: when you say a covert narcissist will pretend they care if you're in pain, but it's just a means to get their narcissistic supply. So they'll mirror your pain and even your tears, but that'll just keep everything going as it is. I can relate to this.
Thank you! I think what they are really great at, is at constantly appearing as the victims. No matter the situation, they are always the ones to indemnify
I always knew my dad was a narcissist but there was a couple things that never added up, but he checks all the boxes for Covert Narcissism and now it makes sense. Thank you!
Wow! You just described BOTH of my parents and both of my brothers! All of them are vulnerable narcissistic. They’re always the victims of everything and they always make everything about themselves. My parents have been divorced for more than 40 years and they never moved on. All they ever talk about is each other, how they’re victims of everything, and how they never got ahead because life held them back. One of my brothers is serving time in prison for attempted murder and he doesn’t think it was his fault. He doesn’t take responsibility for it. My other brother is a drug addict and a thief who refuses to work. I’ve managed to make a good life for myself despite each of them trying to sabotage me and never wanting me to exceed them, even though they did nothing with their lives but make bad decisions. I managed to stay in the military long enough to retire, I completed 2 bachelor’s degrees, and I’m working on my master’s. I stayed employed, I don’t do drugs or do drink, I stayed out of prison, I’m constantly improving myself, and I’m relatively happy compared to them. I rarely talk to or hear from them. In fact I moved 4,200 miles just to be away from them. I wonder why I’m so different? It’s like I’m not even related to them.
Same here, my brother a covert narcissist, sucking my energy and playing the victim role constantly, I wonder how he can be so different even though we are brothers. It's incredible and so sad
Very clearly described. the only way to remain safe and maintain your mental sanity is to distance yourself. These guys are quite insecure and try to control people who they target. They also company with flying-monkeys. Very manipulative and will negative campaign about their target in the community. Distance. Distance. Distance.
Thank you! I was extremely confused about a friend of mine who is so fragile and has so many legit problems and feels so bad about herself. I’d been overlooking some subtle things but woke up when she got blatantly passive-aggressive when I told her I was not in a position to stay with her after a surgery. That had shocked me since I had explained just how much it would cost me physically and financially to be there. A therapist told me she is a narcissist and I couldn’t make any sense of that at first because I’d only been aware of the grandiose kind. I have ME/CFS (like long Covid, but not from Covid) and during the few days she wasn’t talking to me I noticed I had more energy (still maybe only at 50% of normal, but that’s a significant boost from only 40%), so it felt very validating when you said how exhausting it is. I had had no idea I was expending that much energy. It’s been over 4 months since I pulled back from her, but I still struggle with guilt and confusion sometimes because she does have so many physical health problems and a hard life story. But she does this thing where she’ll slant a valid issue to be worse than it is, so I feel bad for her but I also resent the dishonesty in that and realize I can’t be responsible for her problems.
@@terri_cole Your noting that vulnerable narcissists are good at pretending empathy was especially helpful. That was one thing that made me dubious about applying the vulnerable narcissist info to my friend, because at times she has seemed truly empathetic. OTOH, I also wondered why I felt like my struggles were unseen. Now that makes sense. Anyway, that was particularly useful information.
This is such an important topic to discuss. I wish I had this information prior to being in an abusive marriage with a covert narcissist. I had already been through childhood trauma, but that relationship was so incredibly damaging to me in many ways. It felt almost impossible to escape. I made it out though, and I've been seeing a therapist for the past couple of years. Thank you for all that you do, Terri! Your content is very helpful. Wishing you and everybody that reads this the best!
You just described my 87 year old MIL! My husband, his two sisters and I are caregiving for her. She is incredibly mean and cruel to me, but dotes on her own adult children. She insults me in private and then is sugar sweet when others are around. You are so very right…this is extremely frustrating because others do not see it. Luckily, my husband is beginning to see her true colors, and I am starting to set some boundaries with her. Thank you for helping me to have more clarity…this is so helpful!!
Yup my MIL is the same but because I had a narc boss before, I am arms lengths from here and stayed in my ground. She wants to run my household because she gifted money to help ua with down-payment. I said i can return the money if she keep controlling and manipulating me or my husband. It was tough! She asked my husband to choose lol, she or me? No sane mother does that. She always wants her way to be done inside and outside the house (her house ok but mine, F* NO!). I created a distance between me and her. I just pity her husband tor almost 50 years (the old man said he is not happy but he can’t do anything because no one can love him like she does (😮 i’m confused but the old man… he is super empathic to me).
So good explained, thank you dear Terri Cole 🙏 I am in middle of a break up from this former partner who is a mix of both types of narc and I am so exhausted from this... But I feel the black cloud this man was carrying that impacted me too immensely, starting to leave me... But I am so left drained and consumed of this almost 4 years of relationship on the ground. The last year was more on and off but now it's different, he's getting very vindictive and hurtful. He writes for example the worst accusations and nasty drama lies constructions, that I am asking myself: " Who is this person?" I am very hurting and feeling alone... Breaking up with a narc is really a different level of break-up... I just can say from my own experience, never ever go back, it's only toxic 🥺 Sending blessings to everyone 🙏💕
This described my ex to perfect detail, right down to the eye rolling and door punching. It was so accurate it made me nauseous. He made me feel crazy, and I’m so relieved I got out and away from him.
I’d never thought my mother was covert narcissist until I was advised to watch “The Mother” movie by Roger Michell as an example of covert narz behavior. First I could’t get the point: main character’s behavior seemed absolutely normal to me, because that’s what I’d got used to through my childhood. But then, by the end of the movie, and especially after watching the psychological analysis of the movie, which I found on RU-vid, I realised EVERYTHING. All those manipulations that “poor thing” had been using all my life. That mask of a kind woman who helps and cares. I realized her envy. Then I watched dozens of “Narz” videos on RU-vid of any kind. But still I couldn’t confirm my mother was narz (I doubted whether she was codependent empath), but when I found Terri and watched her videos about “How YOU feel when you are in the relationships with narzs” (all I’d watched before was about “How narzs feel inside”, not about their victims’ feelings), finally I accepted. Point by point - everything matched absolutely. Even the point about “Golden child” - the dignity which is not appropriate for me as I have always been a scapegoat (becauseI ’m alike my father), but 100% appropriate for my sister who is so alike my mother.
This lady explained the vulnerable narcissist very accurately, and the differences between different forms of narcissism. It is notoriously difficult being in a long-term relationship with this type of individual and it may not be entirely their fault. It could, and often does, begin in their childhood, and from their experiences.
I am so glad I found this video! I really identified with the secret grudge holding, victimizing of themselves and the negativity. And because this person came off as shy and quiet it’s been hard to see and accept. This is what I needed to hear to help me let go and to walk away.
Thank you Terri. This helped me to realized that someone I work with is a covert narcissist and why I feel so hurt by something that happened recently. Very eye opening!
Thank you so much for this. I feel like I am around many covert narcissists and I myself have "learned" or "copied" some of these traits from my parents - so now I am wondering how much of a vulnerable narcissist I am myself. Would you have some tips on navigating healing from this? Again, thank you so much for all your work Terri! 💖
You may just want to work on different aspects of your behavior (which we all need!). You can identify your behaviors towards others that you don’t like and little by little change them to less self-centered or hurtful behaviors.
@@terri_cole mmh, yes. From reading your answer I just realized that "little by little" is not the easiest thing to hear, I guess I also need to learn patience with myself - and others for that matter. 😅Thank you 🙏🏼
I have the same problem! I've been around covert narcissists my entire life, my mother was one, and so were most of my relationships because I thought that's what love looked like. So now I have some of the signs and feelings and I have to sit here and worry about if I'm a narcissist or not. 😭 It's maddening!
I was also scared to see that I had some of these traits, even though I didn't use them to put people down on purpose I definetly probably annoyed a lot of people around me. Always in victim mode or always in a "Crisis". I am cringing at my self. Thinking back to how much a victim I made myself. Also refusing help from people because I was scared of being a "burden", as I was always told as a child that I was or that I always caused family problems. No more victim, just getting rid of toxic people, environments and my own self sabotaging.
My MIL is a covert/vulnerable narcissist. It was heartbreaking once I figured it out. Strangely enough my mom was also very narcissistic. I have no idea how I married a man who also had a mom that I believe is incredibly narcissistic-but it’s reality and something we have to accept. I never saw it coming and I got completely caught up in her manipulative behavior. It’s impossible to try to set boundaries with her, and whenever we try, she acts soooo hurt. She says things like “I just care so much! You have to tell me everything and let me do what I want bc I worry about you and I can’t help but care!” She’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. She’s incredibly exploitive and will jump on any chance to use people for supply. She does it in a way that she’ll be overly helpful and giving. So much so that makes others feel uncomfortable bc its fake! Its not bc she has a truly giving heart-it’s bc she’s keeping a ledger of things she does so that people feel so indebted to her and guilty and that’s how she keeps control over them, and is able to manipulate them. Keeping total control is her M.O. and she cannot be in situations where she’s not in control. When you say insidious, you are spot on. The abuse they hand out is so brutal, and I think it’s bc they appear so wonderful and their selfishness and toxic narcissism is hidden, and the world thinks they’re perfect-the gaslighting and brainwashing their victims/targets go through is torture bc it causes a sense of profound inner shame that victims carry within themselves, therefore, always thinking every issue or problem is their fault. She’ll never take any accountability for anything inappropriate she does or mistake she might make. This alters the way those who are abused function in life (or rather are unable to function) and the way they live their life and see themselves. It took awhile to finally catch on to her, but I tell anyone who might happen to read my comment; I cannot stress this enough: Be careful with people who appear overly humble, and who feign excessive empathy. If someone presents as a martyr or who just can’t help but help-BE VERY CAUTIOUS AND CAREFUL. They may very well be a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Is it possible to be a malignant vulnerable narcissist? Just curious bc I think that if it is, that might very well be what my husband and I have been dealing with. The level of exploitation she pursues, along with how cold and disturbed her true self really is can be quite scary. She’s definitely got a dark side to her that gives me the chills sometimes 😳 FYI: Two great books about these types of personality styles are: Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing, and Character Disturbance, both written by Dr George Simon. I highly recommend them both! ♥️🥰
Hi there - I would not get too caught up in the label. Sounds like someone you need to protect yourself from so be sure to have good boundaries in place to protect your peace! ❤️ Thanks for sharing those resources and your experience.
I've learned recently that covert narcissism and vulnerable narcissism aren't the same thing. Rather, that the two polar spectrums are overt/covert and grandiose/vulnerable. This makes sense to me as I am struggling in my life with an individual who embodies the overt vulnerable narcissistic model. I'm interested to find out what others have learned about this distinction.
I remember being so exhausted in a conversation once that I just said to them, "Conversations with you are exhausting!" They were not very happy about it and I felt like the rude one. It's just confusing and makes me think I am crazy. It's like they don't have an identity and they keep changing it so you can't know really anything about them. Thankful for finding people like Terri to keep my brain straight. We're not the problem, they are!
Great video!! This was definitely my ex wife. She was a psychology major. She ran circles around marriage counselors. It was such a twisted nightmare. I bent over backwards to be the best husband and would never measure up. I would have never thought she was a narcissist until I came across this particular type. Now I’m watching my children go through the same experience.
Thank you so much for this, Terri. I have gotten off track on staying aware of these traits...this helps a lot with a recent event had hosted with a few family members. Good warning ⚠️ for me to get back on track to stay aware as I am practicing and holding healthy boundaries . Love your book Boundary Boss and courses, they are great tools for me in my journey. Thank you for all love, expertise, compassion vibes you share on daily basis🙏✨💃💜🌻
ugh this is so true. more insidious for sure. My covert narc half older sisters cancer is back, or so she says. i don't think i'll be that lucky, but maybe there's a miracle out there.
When he watched me cry in physical pain from surgery and did not even flinch or offer comfort, I knew. Once I recognized the pattern I could not un-learn the truth. I was able to then take the pattern and overlay it against past issues and it fit like a glove, everything made sense. That's when the mourning period began. I am on the other side now, just happily working towards my Independence Day. Look for the patterns and prepare for the mourning period so you don't get hoovered and take the bait!!
I was married to one. The victim of nearly all past relationships even though she was an angel in those relationships. The control was off the hook with no empathy and no respect of boundaries. Basically you sign over your pay and do unlimited trade projects to keep her happy but she will never actually be happy. You do what your told or it will be endless comments and arguing until you fall back in line. All the rules constantly made on the fly that you best follow. God forbid you go to subway for lunch because that will be a month of fighting about it while she determines how all money gets spent. Brutal existence. Interesting dynamic how she loathes the thought of you being with someone else. Almost like she can't fathom the loss of control over you after the relationship has ended. Always on the best of behaviors for long periods of time while trying to lure you back in.
I had flash back as I was listening to this, I remember my ex bf said “I can’t believe he got a better car than me with a better price “ as he talked about his “friend” whom he didn’t like. And I responded, “you should be happy for him” (not knowing he had these narc tendencies) and I even said lol “well he has a family and a new baby so this is a good thing, I know you probably wanted a better price for your car but i guess he got exactly what he needed for his family” And then, when his friend crashed his car .. he seemed weirdly happy about it. He laughed … and I thought that was weird.
This women came like a mentor in my life saying she's 20 yrs older than me she has seen life and used to say she's a feminist and loves to empower women but she stayed with her husband who cheated on her. She also used to say stuff like oh Ur photographs look good is it because u use face apps😮. Finally got rid of her
My exboyfriend told everyone he was extremely abused by his parents, a massive web of lies involving so many people, to get sympathy. He would beat me up and then say that I had done that to him, and eventually he told everyone that the things he did to me, I did to him, and they believed him! Apart from the few close friends that had been in a car with us, as he used to scream at me while I was driving! Thankfully i took photos of my injuries, and hopefully I will see some justice!
I have an issue with a family member who will constantly talk about everything that's wrong in the world when I call them, but they very rarely ever call me. So I carry the burden of contact and then I get anger because I don't call enough when they never do. Also the conversation always comes back to how great they are. They also have very meticulous ways of trying to get you to do what they want but it's only for their benefit. They don't let you talk much because they need to boast, and if you do talk you're quickly cut off. They can't stand not having the attention. It's got to a point where I rarely talk to them anymore because they drain me.
Hi Terri, thank you so much for sharing this. Have to say it is something of an epiphany in my long term relationship and clarifies so much of my partners behaviour that until now I just really didn't understand. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Isn’t the arrogance a defense mechanism though? The belief that they’re somehow special a way to get some temporary relief from the shame and insecurity?
You hit it right on the head Doctor! The covert narcissist in my life is driving me crazy! But I’m taking steps to move on. Thank you for the great video! 😊
I've been married to my wife for 18 years and ive lost a leg i recently had a stroke just trying to live with this person. She's stopped all love and attention and started her devaluation stage. Everything you've said is soot on.😊
Thank you & so true always complaining about everything and talking about themselves & how they want plastic surgery all day we couldn’t even watch a TV show with beautiful women or she would tear them down & point out every flaw she can find even when there is none !
Thank you so much for this video and how clearly you have explained differences between these two types of narcissist and symptoms. Very interesting and valuable! 🙂🙌
Hi Terri, I watched this video this morning and afterward, I was feeling like I may be a covert Narcissist. My mother is 100 percent narcissist, being raised by her, I feel like I have developed traits of covert narcissism. Is this typical? I want help to change this about myself. Looking back I have hurt my adult children unintentionally with my reactions from my mother.She has alienated them from me now and after watching this video I can’t help but think, maybe it’s me, I don’t want to be this way. Thank you for all your posts, I have followed you for 4 years now and the information you have shared has been incredibly helpful. As I’m still trying to heal, I’ve started to look inward and focus on what I need to do to change my ways. I am in therapy, trying to establish boundaries in every aspect of my life. Thank you again
I get great comfort from what you are saying ref has their narc rubbed off on you,as l feel I’m not alone . I too wonder if I’m a covert narc in some ways. I did read recently about this topic & what was said is that as a child we naturally mimic our parents behaviours/traits so l guess it’s naturally we pick up some bad traits too. The fact we’re researching about narc”s & seeking advice says we can’t be narcs ourselves. I hope that made sense 😄 please don’t beat yourself up, healing from narc abuse ( especially a parental one) is bloody hard going … l think it runs deeper ,
@@jeanettewoodhouse4348 Thank you 😊 You have lifted me up too. I have to wear my shield of protection anytime my mother is involved. I’ve noticed that I can be passive aggressive( stems from not trusting anyone, especially those that associate with her) and have repressed anger that I’m trying to get help for now. I don’t want to be a narc, or mean to anyone. Any happiness or pleasure I may experience is always short lived when she is around. Now my daughter has become her new narc supply, since I’ve cut ties with her and it worries me, she’s not aware of the danger and hurt that’s sure to follow. Anyway, thanks again for the comment you definitely lifted me out of a funky mood today 😊 stay strong 💪 and keep going! 💜
Yes, it is common to learn behaviors that were modeled but you don’t have to continue that way and from what you shared- it is obvious you want better for yourself and your kids. Keep doing the work and little by little change the behaviors that are painful to others. ❤️
After studing this both in myself and family/others; It made me realize everyone has this to a degree. In that anyone who has a sense of self and is actualized in any way, can express any of these traits as seen as "confidence" or self love/etc. It seems to be a subjective phenomena, in that as a self, one can see it and look out for it in others but it's hard to see in yourself i.e. if your naturally outgoing, or comedic, or in a leadership position one naturally has these traits. The world is filled with leaders and followers and everywhere in-between, thus everyone is experiencing some form of personal evolution at all ages, and things we were in youth can change in adulthood and vice versa. Understanding CPTSD and the growing awareness of the litany of psychological disorders that are getting more and more overlaping and nuanced simultaneously. It pays to see things from a compassionate lense as I have personally seen the more one feels victim to narcs the more one becomes a covert narc as described in this video. A victim of a narc and a covert narc share the same characteristics of being a victim to another's perceived neg influence in their lives. Healing from it seems to removing one self from the topic entirely as to develop a sense of self outside of being a victim of anything. I see so mamy quick to call out being a victim of narcissism as a way to promote themselves as superior by proxy as to say they are "good" and the other "bad" give me love and attention. Thoughts? Thank you for contributing to the conversation.
Interesting perspective! Narcs (including covert narcs) will be able to always see themselves as the victim, and in your words, “promote themselves as superior by proxy.” I also agree that everyone has certain traits of narcissism, as we all have an ego, and will show traits of being self-interested. There’s a healthy amount of ego that is expected in all of us, and thankfully there is a difference between confidence and narcissism. I believe that learning and growing, rather than distance, helps most of us to understand these differences. However, I appreciate that it sounds like distance has helped you to see the gray space and not view things in black and white!
My former partner Was a Wolf in Sheep Skin Checked all the boxes of a covert/vulnerable narc. Unimaginable the damage that can be done in 15 months. Blocked her from any access from me. Digging deep into CPTSD and healing childhood wounds with a coach. My best to anyone that is going through this or is recovering. Most people don’t understand this and it is hard to explain or get even get professional help.
Hi Terry. I am a 75yo female who is just learning about narcissism. I find that I was brought up by a covert narc mother and either a lesser narc father. Or maybe he as a codependent. At any rate I was abandoned emotionally and grew up feeling strangely separated from all my friends. I always felt very awkward and am working on correcting that at this age. My health is poor also. So I am wondering how much can I expect to improve at this late age. Codependency was my strategy for survival. I fooled most of my friends into thing I wa normal but now I have told them the truth. They are all shocked because they all think I am so sweet and giving. Thank you for exemplifying a strong tough lady who knows how to handle narcs.
Thank you my x is one and he was belittling me. Made me feel horrible. He lives with his folks. A year went by. This is very helpful. Thank you very much seeing things a bit clearly.
my ex told me he thought of me as his therapist, yet refused to actually get into therapy until after i broke up with him. he showed almost all the signs of a vulnerable narcissist and looking back i realize how easily manipulated i was
here after finding out I was being cheated on by a covert-vulnerable narcissist.. 10 years wasted. Completely ghosted me after I found out. It’s been hard, but thank you for the videos. it is bringing me some comfort to know I am not crazy.
I just left a relationship with a person like this. He has since moved on to a relationship as of a week ago. I moved out six months ago, because i reached my limit after 5 years.
Omg you are describing my mother 100%. Still suffering from her emotional abuse. Also my brother the golden child is a narcissist. He but me down my whole life. How am I surviving at all.
Another flash back: I remember he said to me, “I don’t think anyone that I know will ever make more money than me” And i said “what if I make more than you?” And he said “oh sure I want you to make good money but i doubt you’ll make more than me” I was like wtf? Why would that matter in the first place 🤷🏻♀️ said the guy who wanted to marry me.
life is neither fair or unfair, its always about what you do with the time given to you in the name of life, sometimes you bear something which was not supposed to happen but if that was not your fault you should not make it a burden and close the door on that, life is based on choices and actions and the resulting outcomes nothing more than that, you can choose ,you can act but you cannot escape accountability of your actions ,eventually you have to pay for it
I am still coming to grips with this. I have enthusiastically used excuse after excuse for reasons why a person would or could possibly act in certain ways. Especially, the woman who is supposed to love you, care for you, support you, uplift you and protect you more than anyone in the world. I have been glancing at this possibility for about a year but each time I started to really research, my wonderful mom would be there with open and loving arms. This is and always has been a very rare occasion, to say the least. About 10 days ago, she treated me, as usual only this time, company was over. I actually witnessed a mask come off and it has been a whirlwind since then. I see absolutely everything now and have finally been able to start putting the pieces together. The pieces that I have been seeking for many years because all I want is a peaceful, joyous, loving and fulfilling life. I want and will have the opposite of what has been shown. I find that harboring anger, which is beyond justified, only harms me. I truly forgive her for whatever happened to make her believe this is the best way to navigate throughout life. Distancing and placing boundaries immediately. Slowly making my way out. Thank you for you guidance.
Everyone is talking about there relationships with these people but she just described me and I don’t know how to stop it, or even if I can, but this perfectly describes me and it hurts myself to think about how badly I have treated other people and how much regret I have felt once I realized what I was doing but for some reason I can’t stop it
OMG. I have heard that even though he knows I paid for school myself and was on my own at 17. He is very passive-aggressive. He has that and can only compete
Thank you soooo much for this video, Terri. I have been watching videos and reading articles on narcissism for the past year to try and make sense of my last relationship (which I am writing a book about now). Your video resonated with me harder than any other I have seen.
My mother is a covert narc, I haven't seen or spoke with her in almost three years.. She stole my home life, I just hear you today.I am a Norwegian woman and take more to write about this difficult things in an other language..I have developed complex ptsd. She is all that you speak about, and more , she is pure evel..I write more an other day. She is by the way playing the victim..
Can a person swing between covert and overt? As if they have bipolar disorder with their presentation? - loud, outgoing, arrogant bragger about accomplishments with the appearance of no self awareness when they do so, quick to rage and lash out at any minor inconvenience. - however, bragging also about their victimhood, always one-upping in the grief department, constantly defensive, lives on the need of reassurance, very sensitive, causing all to walk on eggshells, wildly jealous and envious with “must be nice” and constantly comparing, passive aggressive.
Yes, narcissists may alternate between covert and overt behaviors depending on where they are and who they are with. At work, where they feel confident and in control, or in high-status social situations, they may display more overt behavior.
Wonderful video, you’ve described my brother! I was struggling to understand my situation with him and never thought this could be a possibility. Totally opened up my eyes, thank you! Now that we’ve identified the covert/vulnerable narcissist… any tips on how to deal with them, especially when they are your family? I find it hard to keep boundaries clear and not enable them, while trying to show them care and empathy because of the hard situations they get themselves into, and their depression/anxiety… and if you gently call them out on their behaviour, they will deny any responsibility and make you the problem! Any recommendations?
I think that self-protection has to be your top priority when dealing with any type of narc. It can be difficult, but accepting their emotional limitations is a part of having a relationship with them.
It is truly hard…This is what I do when my parents trigger my inner 7 year year old child. I close my eyes and envision me holding my seven year old self. I tell her I got you you are safe and I walk into the room where they are at. Don’t be scared of them. Hold your head high. I see God over us protecting us. Then I handle my business. I do not entertain these fools. You will have your good days and bad. Practice Practice…we have a good coach 🦋
I've just ended a relationship with a covert narcissist. I didn't even know it was a thing until I sent my boss an email of what I'd been going through and he gave me all the research on CNPD
