Jessica & Paul should have protected her more. Even though she was one of the most powerful characters in Dune, thinking she was indestructible was a big mistake on her mother & brothers' part.
Ehhh, they are characters in a book, not real persons. And as a character in a book you cannot influence the writer who needs mayhem in order to sell books and pay for food for his children ;-)
An uncaring manipulative mother, a fragile identity overwhelmed by the toxicity of family history, drug use and abuse and finally a state like untreated schizophrenia and a society that did not know how to help her.
Well she would literally kill anyone who “threatened” her. No one could have put her out of her misery but Leto 2. Jessica really did not do her right as she was prioritizing Paul’s survival and success. Alia was treated like an afterthought.
Alia is by far one of my favorite characters. I love these videos so much. I appreciate that you don't give the history from only 1 source, but include from BOTH previous movies as well as the book.
When I read Children of Dune I was blown away with the depiction of the Baron taking possession of her. The mini-series really did a good job of it, especially because the live Baron floated on suspensors and her the mental remnant of him, he did so also. Wild.
Fun fact, according to the first book, a reverend mother had only the female line as memories. So the Baron as dominating personality over Alia was probably a mistake.
She was exposed to the spice before she was born which unlocked everything same as Paul and Leto 2, except she was not strong enough to keep them at bay and allowed the Baron, a malicious domineering presence,to take over. that’s why the Bene Gesserit wanted the Kwisatz Haderach to access all ancestral memories men and women. Alia was a tragic character who was never really in control of her own life. She was driven to madness by the voices.
Jessica did NOT take the water of life for power 🤦♂️ she did it to save Paul. Had she not become the new clan mother, Paul would have been executed, eventually by the clan. This bought him entrance into the clan. 🐻
And power. Jessica was driven by wanting Paul to take his fathers position as the new Duke…..so yes, power was definitely a factor. Alia came a very long last in her mothers estimation and consideration.
@@paulinemegson8519 I disagree. I don’t believe power had anything to do with her choice in the moment. In the moment, her only wish was that Paul survived. If Paul was executed, all her dreams for him would have died. All her suffering and sacrifice would have been for nothing. The loss of her duke would have been for nothing. She risked her life to save her son, the power gained through succeeding in changing the water of life and the position it gained them both, was incidental, in the moment. Because she would have done it regardless of gaining power. But I do agree that, unfortunately, Alia was barely even a consideration in her equation, until she awakened during the transformation.
@@rochellemcdonald2610 dude. Read the book again. Not everyone thought he was the voice from the outer world. And even those who did, were wise enough to allow it to unfold as it would and not try to force prophecy into existence, they weren’t space Jews, lol
Interesting portrayal of Alia in Part 2. Mostly as an embryo communicating with Jessica and then later with Paul. We see Alia once as an adult p,aged by Anna Taylor-Joy.
Its all about Alia. She's the reason I'm a Dune fan. Well, her and Ian McNeice's Barron Harkonnen....I loved the way they interacted in both Sci Fi Channel shows.
It's kind of insane seeing the entire life story of the character that my parents named me after. They had told me growing up I was named after a powerful yet absolutely insane witch and I can see what they were talking about now!
She was insane because she was "preborn" when her mother became a Reverend Mother. Her sister, one of the twins (Her brother becomes the God Emperor.) that Paul had did survive being preborn, but in an odd way. Read "Children of Dune" to learn about that.
@Corey Canham I don't think she really understood all the consequences though. My impression was she thought it might kill the fetus not create a preborn. Her thought before drinking was should she risk them both. Obviously Jessica couldn't be preborn but could die. Her thought didn't differentiate 2 outcomes. Acolyetes aren't generally given specific information to avoid tainting the "test" . We do that even now in some tests to avoid bias and causing false outcomes. Science especially because of what they call the observer effect. Not staying yeah that was cowardly but as she admitted to ghannima she was terrified and after years under extreme stress she broke. Kinda like the batter wives that snap even committing murder or helping to commit crimes.
Jessica was never considered for a Reverend Mother, she was a royal consort and in the breeding program to produce a daughter, to marry a Harkonan heir, end the "Feud" and then she produce the Bene Gesserit "Chosen One". Jessica was not given Spice knowledge or how Reverend Mothers train to survive the "Spice Agony" or die trying. Her role didn't require it. She didn't even know her father was the Baron.
@@sigma80 None of the regular Bene Gesserit know who their biological parents were. The only ones who know are the ones in charge of the breeding program.
That's not the issue. The twins Ghani and Leto II proved that foreknowledge wasn't the instant path to abomination as the Bene Gesserit imagined. The difference was that the twins had protectors in their genetic background.... Chani for Ghani, and Paul for Leto. They stopped the poisonous ancestors from having sole voice while they were still too young to develop their own personality. Also in the outside world, the twins had protectors and each other for support. Jessica on the other hand, left Alia alone with no support... Ofc she fell for the Baron Harkonnens blandishments... She never really had a chance and both her mother and brother should take equal responsibility in her fall.
@@elizabethjansen2684 Jessica didn't try.... she ran away. Nor did Paul help his sister, and at the time, he was probably the only person who even "could" understand her. . They both abandoned Alia to her inevitable fate. Fear, however "justifiable" you feel it might be, is no excuse. It doesn't take the responsibility away from Jessica as Alias mother.
@catz Keet yes Jessica did run away, she admitted it to ghanima. But you fail to take into account she had several years of unrelenting stress and fears. As far as she knew there wasn't much that could be done. It wasn't until the twins discovered a way that there was enough knowledge to deal with it. Paul had only the faintest idea of what she dealt with. You might as well expect a grade school teacher to perform surgery.
i woud argue that, of all tragic heroes in the atreides line (Leto I, Paul, Alia, Leto II). the God Emperor is the champ. At a human level, yes, Alia takes the throne (pun intended). At a universal level, Leto II knowingly and presciently sacrificed himself for the entire humanity. Great video, btw.
Maybe spoilers... I've heard they've written out Saint Alia in some lame way. Why? Time, complexity, who knows. We'll have to wait for the next reboot.
@lordcrunk4790 Look at the new trailer, at 02:50. I don't think that's Paul walking with the worm behind him, but the girl that can be seen to the right behind Stilgar in the frame right before the worm.
@@lordcrunk4790 If Villeneuve followed the book as he's bragged he's done (in spite of some real whoppers that show he really didn't follow the book), Alia will appear as an infant and a toddler. By the end of the book, she's 4 years old. Since she's the one who kills the Baron, writing her out would prove beyond all doubt that Villeneuve has no clue at all what he's doing. And no, I don't give a damn about spoilers. The book has been in publication for 58 years.
Was the original movie good? Yes. Was it a representation of the books...Not really. The SciFI mini series did not have the same production value, but it really is the BEST representation of the lore and characters for the most part. That is, until Dune 2021. I just hope the Villeneuve sticks to the original lore, and have Leto II and Ghanima as their actual ages rather than aging them up.
That would make some scenes in Children of Dune a bit awkward, when it comes to Ghanima mating with Farad'n and Leto having that scene with Sabiha. Besides, what 9-year-old actors could begin to do justice to this material?
Great character. Great video. I am so happy I hunted down the dvd set of children of dune and watched it. One of my priced nerd lair posessions! Wish my friends would dare to watch it!
If only. They failed here in the 2nd new Dune movie. It so sad really. Much of the current remake is good. They should have made Paul's ascension take a few years. But they crammed it into a handful of months, which in and of itself is silly, since gaining the trust and consolidation of power among the Freeman would have taken years, not months. And also, they left Alia in the womb, castrating this aspect of the story. Creepy Toddler-preschooler Alia is one of the best parts of the story. Ruined.
Come to think of it ,, there's possibly many more movies from the various books of this series . There's Dune , Dune Messiah , God Emperor of Dune , Children of Dune and Charterhouse Dune
These "Origins" videos repeatedly use the epithet "witch" in reference to sisters of the Bene Gesserit. I'm certainly aware that this phrase is used in the novels, but if my memory serves me, it was always as a pejorative, and never used self-referentially. I'm certainly also aware that its a bit absurd to advocate on behalf of characters of a work of fiction, I do think that the phrase is perhaps inappropriate, as these videos otherwise seem to intend a neutral description of Herbert's characters and narratives,
@@constancepullen810 LOL. KJA and BH have pretended for years that everything in their abominable books was based on the Holy Notes That Frank Left, but there is no way in hell that FH would have left notes that directly contradict his own decades' worth of work.
Please, Bene Gesserit are not “magical” or perform “spells”, it is all about mind and body control. Saying the former is ridiculing a master piece of philosophical science fiction.
St Alia of the Knife because after the battle of Arrakeen she finished off wounded troops. While Alicia Witt was the best so far I think Briella Guiza may be a good stand in.
How are they gonna portray her in part2?? Im really intrigued, CGI or child actor with CGI elements. I love the way Lynch did it with dispatching of Vlad but this is a whole new generation with full Hollywood money behind it. #LONGLIVE THEFIGHTERS 💯✊🏾⚔🤺⚔
@Shan_Dalamani Yes, Mohiam is Paul Atredies Grandmother. So since Lady Jessica is her mother, that makes Mohiam her OTHER Grandmother I believe. Mohiam and Baron Vladmir Harkonan begat Lady Jessica, and Jessica begat Alia with Duke Leto, before his death. So Mohiam is definitely her Grandmother. I think you're mixing up Paul's Twins with Chani.
@@sigma80 So you didn't bother actually reading what Frank Herbert wrote. You're just going by the bullshit that Kevin and Brian wrote. 1. It's stated in Dune that the Baron is Jessica's father. 2. It's stated in Children of Dune that Jessica's mother was Tanidia Nerus. 3. It's made abundantly clear throughout FH's books that love and sentiment have no place among the Bene Gesserit, and are to be avoided. There is no way in hell that Mohiam would ever be allowed to be Jessica's teacher in the Bene Gesserit school if she were her biological mother. 4. Where do you get the notion that I'm mixing up the twins with Chani? Chani is their mother. Paul is their father. Alia is their aunt. Liet-Kynes and Duke Leto were their grandfathers (note that Liet-Kynes is a man, not a woman). Faroula and Jessica were their grandmothers. This is all explained either in Dune or in the Dune Encyclopedia (which was approved by Frank Herbert). 5. Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about. Go read the first three books by Frank Herbert and leave the nuDune shit out of it. I've seen fanfiction that's better than their crap.
You would think the female atredeis who hated Harkonnens for long time would be able to over power the barons personality. ESP if also trained benne gesserits. But I don’t know. I ain’t pre born. Yet……
@@lordcrunk4790 I'll treat as a rumor until something official says so but like you said she integral to the story especially her infancy when she freaks out the Fremen women.
Voxe reescrevera esse texyo e fara cpm que seus coleguinhas sigam minha orientacoes Voces sao pessoas miito poderosas. Muito ricas. Tem muito a perder. Nao ha nenhuma possibilidade de ela ser nwgociada. Nenhuma. Seus politicos escrevendo com inteligencia é tao INSANO que vcs deveriam se preocipar. Eu sei que nao é a A.I. Obrigado.
@@Shan_Dalamani That's right...Count Fenring was a genetic eunuch....His wife Margot told the Count she needed to get Feyd's bloodlines for the BG breeding program...but she also probably wanted a working D
@@johnkonig865 *shrug* That's what Quinn from Quinn's Ideas said in his famously detailed videos about Dune. I have read the first three books and seen all the media: movies, mini-series, the Jodorawski documentary. Many things in our own real world are unexplained. This is just an example of the same thing in fiction. How do the BG women choose the gender of their children? Who knows?
Try reading ALL SIX BOOKS. A lot about the Bene Gesserit is explained in them. I know the story after three is less thrilling and more complex. A lot of people don't like having all their sacred "cows" gored by what Herbert says. Nothing in those books, about politics, religion, power, the natural tendencies of people and societies and government is wrong. Everything he says is true, and most people despise being "unmasked" as the Bene Gesserit do. In the end, Herbert points out the many flaws of the Bene Gesserit. His son and another famous writer's sons wrote the intended sequels to "Chapterhouse Dune" so you see where Frank wanted to go. The writing is not at Frank's level but you get to see how it is supposed to end. The son (Brian) and Poul Anderson's son wrote a huge body of preequals to the Dune books. A book about the Atreides tells how Paul's grandmother give Baron Harkonan that horrible disease he has. He is supposed to breed with her (Voluntarily) but he gives her a toxin that totally paralyzes her, then rapes her. Jessica is a result of that rape, but Reverend Mother Mohiem gave him a "Gift that keeps on Giving" as punishment for the unnecessary rape. The memories of the female side of a Reverend Mother are a result of surviving the "Spice Agony". It's implied at a few points a Reverend Mother type transformation might be possible without Melange, but never explained in any detail. The Bene Gesserit are not "Magic" and everything is explained in the books. Supposedly his son has book of ALL the Canon and background of the "Dune" universe, and it is all explained by (Some fictional of course.) science. Well outside Paul. His prescience is never fully understood, even by him.
@@sigma80 Where did you GET all this bullshit? 1. Frank Herbert never intended Dune 7 to be about cartoon robots. 2. Where do you get the ridiculous notion that Kevin J. Anderson is the son of Poul Anderson? Poul Anderson had only one child - a daughter, named Astrid. Astrid Anderson married Greg Bear, who also wrote science fiction. 3. Mohiam never gave the Baron anything. Mohiam is NOT Jessica's mother, and the Baron's physical traits are clearly explained in Dune. The Baron allowed himself to become too large to move without suspensors partly because he saw no reason not to indulge himself, and partly because he knew others found it offensive - and he enjoyed offending people. 4. Mohiam was not raped.
@noe842 No, she doesn't have Paul's DNA. She is his sister, not his child. And she was born before Paul drank the water of life. She drank the water through Jessica's pregnancy, but that gave her Bene Gesserit powers, not Kwisatz Haderach powers.
@@kristinestout1170 no shes the same, but she was not prepared not supported, nobody knew how to deal with a preborn, in capacity she could do as much as Paul (having also access to both male and female ancestors)…even more things actually, but unlike him she could not control the voices…
@@kristinestout1170 read the books never said she was Paul’s daughter, you know the reason why the twins (children of Paul) didn’t turn out like Alia was because they had Chani as a protective figure in all those ancestors, they didn’t go crazy, Alia was hated by the BG and the only voice who seemed to « care » (well he manipulated her) was the baron, her grandpa, therefore she listened to him…
Watching this I realize maybe it wasn't just streamlining the plot and timeline down, but now I realize maybe it's to skip the typical overreacted response of the media to a toddler assassinating her grandfather, yes it's a 60s book & already an 84 movie and a 00s TV show, but we all know how the media has dementia and amnesia so that everything that happens is the first time it's ever happened to be as narcissistic as humanly possible in all things.
@@Shan_Dalamani Yes. Of course, Paul did the action part of the deed, yes. Like a dad/older brother who left home(the teenager and his newborn twins) when his side chick which he loved died at childbirth. To the woman, his legal wife, who he repeatedly told he hated, and not even touched tenderly once, and who drugged his side chick so she couldn't bear children too. Yes left his babies and a teenager sister (who all of them had much nonstandard minds) to a known drugger and a hated person by himself. What would a younger side of the grandmother hood certainly healthy and capable grandmother do in this condition? Leave the kids to such a stepmom? And leave the teenager to rule an Empire, hope the best that said stepmother would do her best with best intentions to help the teenager? And so what! if said stepmom didn't do the usual but did above and beyond for the grandkids? She had to save said grandkids from said teenager! Meanwhile, Jessica the mother, the grandmother, and a bene gesserit, aaand a reverend mother, aaaand a sayyadina aaaaand holy mother of fremen, aaaaaaaaaaaand more importantly a Queen mother! of an Empire! with a preborn! which she herself bore on the steering wheel of!; certainly did the "Inaction" part of said deed. Paul had sort of kind of a reason(let's say meh, why not). Yes yes of course he was being a tiny bit cowardly by not accepting the golden path.(would you accept becoming a worm for four thousand years?) Jessica s reason? Oh she had bad memories on dune. Everyone has bad memories in the empire now! Sorry only the ones who aren't killed by Paul's troops, my bad. And, so does Alia too?! And she is a lone preborn now. Shouldering an Empire! It's so unbecoming of a reverend mother if not all other titles she yes admittedly deservingly owns! (well, being a mother to Alia is a bit suspect but hey, she didn't kill her the moment she realised Alia was preborn so not as bad as it could be as a bene gesserit) Fear is the mind killer! Did you forget?! As a reverend mother?!
Jessica ran back to Caladan...perhaps (if she had any conscience at all) wracked with regret over what she had wrought, in order to be a powerful and revered figure...her mad daughter Alia and the bloody Jihad
@koko40800 to me as a fan of both the books and the movies yes it matters it makes the video very hard to watch because every time it gets mispronounced it makes you think of that instead of what he was trying to tell the audience about
Who would we like to see cast as Alia Atreides? ~ELMO~.....In a dress, wig n' make-up perhaps? The eternally present accusatory telepathic voices of his Sesame-Street compadre's torturing him/her day n' night, until she makes as alliance with both Oscar The Grouch & ANIMAL the drummer to keep the monsters @ bay!...;)
The Elmo version of the gom jabbar scene was hilarious. Elmo asked the question I've been asking: "Why are you wearing a blanket on your face?" In the Lynch movie, the Bene Gesserit are bald. In the miniseries, they wear funny hats. In the Villeneuve movie they wear doilies on their heads. Will any version ever be made where they don't look completely ridiculous?
@@Shan_Dalamani Oh man! It IS pretty hilarious eh? I dig the part where Elmo gets flattened by the fire truck...HA! One thing about this 'ol planet & its human inhabitants: We've surely got an OVER-assortment of absolutely GOOFY-ASS hats n' headgear! Take care...
I read all of the books years ago and the new Dune was a big disappointment. To me, it didn't seem like whoever made the movie read the books at all, maybe he just skimmed through the parts that were in the first Dune movie made in 1984. The first Dune was far better than the new one, which is a huge shame considering that in 1984 CG was in its infancy and there is so much that could have been done in the new movie with that. Jessica was a huge disappointment in the new movie in every way. Her acting, her look. Half the time you can't understand or her what she is even saying. And the scenes with her leave out so much. For instance, you never at any time in the new movie get a clear understanding of how Jessica disobeyed the Bene Gesserit to give Leto a son because of her deep love for him. That is never even mentioned in the new movie, nor is it shown that the Bene Gesserit were not even supposed to fall in love, they are placed in their positions to have political control and advantage. Not even a clue of that in the new movie. Also, the scene where Duke Leto dies, Jessica puts her head down on her knees, Paul looks at the Duke's ring, there is no clear indication that they 'knew' that the Duke had died. Worthless scene and lame portrayal of the what was supposed to have been what happened. They may have well have skipped that scene in the new remake altogether for as worthless of a portrayal of the book as it was. Another scene in which the first movie was better. Jessica cried out in the book and in the first movie and there was a clear reaction from Paul also in the first movie that let the viewers know beyond any doubt that both Paul and Jessica had sensed Leto's death. The scene was a nothing burger in the new movie version. Unless you had read the books, there was nothing in the new movie that would have let you know what was going on in new movie's scene, you would have not been able to tell that they were aware that Leto had just died. Also, the scene where the Harkonnens were taking Paul and Jessica into the dessert to kill them, that scene in the new movie was a big let down compared to the first movie and the books. There was no part in the new movie where Jessica says in the voice "There is no need to fight over me" That part was done very well in the first movie and left out completely in the new movie. The entire new movie was a big let down for me. I'd been waiting for decades for a remake of Dune what a disappointment it was. Alia is perhaps my favorite character. If I remember right, the emphasis is on the first A of her name like A' lia rather than on the second syllable A li' a like in how the beautiful and talented late R and B singer's name was pronounced. So, another let down right from the start. I have no doubt that the new movie will also screw up Alia's character as whoever made this last movie screwed up so much else of the new movie remake. I'm hoping that he will have at least read the books by the time the second movie comes out, but I doubt that he will trouble himself to do that. And btw, the Baron Harkonnen was not Alia's grandfather as this review states. I don't understand where they get that from. At least it did not come from the books, idk if it was warped into that in the later series or somewhere else. The Baron killed Alia's father, Duke Leto, so Alia got revenge for that. The Harkonnen's were not related to House Atreides at all and in fact, they lived on different planets and were enemies. At least it is written that way in the books.
Actually, Baron Harkonnen was Alia's grandfather. Jessica was his daughter, by a Bene Gesserit named Tanidia Nerus. This is clearly stated in discussions in Dune and Children of Dune. Mohiam was NOT Jessica's mother.
Oh, FFS. Learn to pronounce the characters' names correctly, and I'll watch your videos. At this point - less than 2 minutes into it, I can only conclude that since you can't even read a name correctly, what else will be wrong with this?
You paint Jessica as this sort of irresponsible parent that was motivated by power and that's completely wrong. Jessica was motivated by survival and wanting the best for her children just like Leto but also made bad decisions just as anyone does. I think Frank was a master in capturing human motivation and complexity. There's so much nuance and depth to the characters that this video doesn't even acknowledge. Really bad take I'm sorry
I am going be That Guy: At first, I was delighted to explore a new perspective of Alia. Then...Bene Gesserit SPELLS and MAGIC? Bloody hell. Did you read the books??? Any of his original series?? @bufboston1 is absolutely correct. Consistently referring to the Bene Gesserit as witches is pejorative, completely. In addition, @kimberlyprice3030 is also correct. You consistently mispronounce names, which leads me to believe you haven't read a jot of Herbert's original series. @bryanmalone1496 is also correct: Paul Atredies was never a 'savior' of the Fremen. For the love of all that is holy and unholy, read the damn books! An absolute travesty of an analysis.
