Alicent Became Just Like Otto & Aegon Suffered For It 

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Yeah. The only kid she made an effort with was Helaena. I think it's because of her religious beliefs. She probably considers Aegon a sinner, Aemond a grown up because he acts cold, while she's innocent. She always seems disgusted around Aegon. She can't accept that he came out of her.

He r’d Dayana!!! How can you love a son who brutalizes women

@@DaughterchasyaIt’s because of his parenting that he’s like that. Yes he’s a terrible person and a rapist but some of that is on his parents. They should have put more of an effort into raising him right. He wouldn’t have ended up that way if he was loved correctly.

​@@garlantyrell6368no, sorry. That is a complete cop-out.

It's not that Allicent doesn't love her children it's obvious that she loves her children but she resents them you have to realize what Allison has been through in her life her father basically pimped her out to the king and she was forced to have children and responsibility that she did not ask for... she probably particularly feels a way towards aegon because he is her first child... I also believe that she actively resents her sons because she knows that they will grow up with the freedom and a power that she herself could never truly achieve... which is why I also believe she has a softer spot for Helena because she was once in her shoes and understands that she's also a victim of patriarchy... you add to the fact that she herself was used as a pawn by her own father and it's no wonder why she doesn't know how to connect emotionally with her children.

That's why I'm not going to feel a bit sorry for Alicent when Aemond walks all over her.

@@aemondmommasboy78 I don't either. Aemond sees her for who she is, she throws rocks and hides hands

It's some faramir and denethor action

Ooh this makes a lot of sense. I like this theory, and he’s making stuff difficult now instead because he has people in his ear

Spot on. They got used to Viserys staying out of their way, playing with his legos when he wasn't on his deathbed. That's how they wanted Aegon to behave, but unlike his dad he didn't have a strong hobby and no other avenue to feel worthiness or fulfillment from.

yeah but for your mom to be using you like a cloth instead of nurturing you and protecting you is inhuman. but she can't give him something she doesn't have. her mom died young and her dad doesn't love her either

@@carebearsedai3005 Yeah. They assumed Viserys was a puppet when he was alive when the truth is that he allowed things to happen which were in his and the realm's best interest and opposed everyone when they tried to come for his eldest daughter even in sickness at the end of his life. Viserys knew who Otto was, same for Daemon. He kept his brother away because he knew he's too volatile but did it through other people. They're realizing Viserys was actually smart, doing his job and Aegon is useless to them and no one is willing to teach him. They disrespected him from the start so even if he learned, they would not respect his authority.

Exactly this. They never wanted him to be wise enough or respectable enough to be a competent ruler, cause they themselves wanted to rule whilst he just was the face.

Criston is a coone!!!

Did he care or was he concerned that they failed?

Not cuddling and drinking hot milk🤣. I was like damn, not the Westerosi Prince Charles and Camilla

Hes not dornish

I mostly agree, but I think Rhaenyra specifically has more spoiled rich kid energy than anyone else in the story. She wants to be queen and have all the power that comes with it, but finds the responsibilities of being queen, like political marriage, unappealing and puts her own feelings above her responsibility. She condemns the Greens for pressing their claim on the throne, but is happy to steal Driftmark from Corlys' brother on succession lies. She condemns Aemond as an unforgivable kinslayer, but is fine with her husband Daemon murdering a cousin for speaking against her, and is only concerned about him having assassins murder Jaeherys because she thinks he might be plotting to overthrow her too. She hasn't done a whole lot of evil in the show by herself, yet, but she's very self centered, and loves to hold others to standards she does not meet. Certainly not the dutiful, honorable queen people like to paint her as.

@@Ithyldr I disagree with that. Rhaenyra is a little spoiled as a child, but her father confronts her about that when it matters most. She was afraid of childbirth after seeing what happened to her mother; she said as much to Daemon and Alicent. Viserys should have done his duty to marry Laena, but instead he did what he wanted, so it fell to Rhaenyra, and she definitely did what she was supposed to do. It wasn’t her fault that her husband wasn’t into women and couldn’t give her children. Still she did her duty and produced heirs, and she never outed her husband. Let's be real, in Westeros if she outed Laenor as gay and impotent with her, she would have possibly been able to get her marriage annulled and get a husband she wanted. But that would be at the cost of hurting Laenor, shaming the Velaryons, and destroying their political alliance. Rhaenyra made an unselfish choice and hid her husband's "shame". The Greens do not have a right to the throne point blank period. Their claims come AFTER Rhaenyra and her children. This is an absolute monarchy and the King named HER as the heir. The Lords swore fealty to HER. Rhaenyra was taught the Song of Ice & Fire, and Rhaenyra served as cupbearer to her father during council until she sat on the council. While Rhaenyra and her line live, there was no claim for them to press. Rhaenyra did not "steal" Driftmark from Vaemond. Laenor claimed her children as his own, and Corlys claimed Luke as his heir and grandson, and Viserys already told everyone to keep his grandsons' names out of their mouths. If anyone “stole” Driftmark, it was the King and the Lord of the Tides himself. And you can miss me with that other stuff too. Fire & Blood is written by a Maester. The Citadel and the Starry Sept are headquartered in Old Town, the Hightower seat of power. Aside from the Maester offering several versions of what may have happened, I wouldn’t believe for a second that there isn’t a Green bias. Just the way the account talks about Rhaenyra is gross and cartoonish. You can do you and be Team Green or anti-Rhaenyra over there because it’s not for me✌🏼

@@RiseeRee Firstly, Rhaenyra did eventually marry Laenor, but she does so with full intent to pursue love above duty in the background. As gross as it is, the duty of a monarchal regent is to produce heirs with a person of a powerful family. It is the cost that comes with the crown. Laenor also did this, and put love above duty. It's a fair decision to make, but makes him a bad lord of Driftmark. Second, power lies where people believe it lies. The king is only king as long as his lords follow him. As such, the Greens' claim to the throne exists because lords willingly follow them, and more lords follow them than the Blacks. We can absolutely bring up that those lords are dishonorable by breaking their oaths to Viscerys and Rhaenyra, but as long as they are willing to follow Aegon, the Greens have a claim. I brought up the theft of Driftmark specifically because it contradicts Rhaenyra's argument that she is rightful queen because Viscerys said so. By that logic, only Corlys and Rhaenys can dictate their heir. If Rhaenerya is heir because Viscerys said so, then it should have been treason to appeal to Viscerys to make Jace or Luke the undisputed heir of Driftmark on the grounds of blood. Bringing the discussion before Viscerys was hypocritical. Lastly, I brought up nothing from the book in my argument. I prefer the story the book tells, but all my points were in the show. Rhaenyra tacitly approves of Daemon murdering Vaemond by never holding him accountable for it. In the argument where she chastises him for sending assassins to kill Jaeherys, she criticizes him for killing a child and harming her claim, but she never calls him a kinslayer, like she says of Aemond. The rules only apply when they support what she wants. Classic spoiled child behaviour. There are no saints in Westerosi politics, and Rhaenyra is not an exception. She rivals Daemon for the most selfish and power hungry of her faction. I wouldn't call her as morally compromised as Aegon, but I do think her particular version of moral corruption is more dangerous to the realm than his. He's neither smart enough nor ambitious enough to do the damage she is about to.

Aegon stop liking Jace and Luce because of Rhaenyra. He had good relationship with them but then Rhaenyra's kids took Aemond's eye and instead of punishing her son for stabbing someone in the face with a dagger Rhaenyra pressured Viserys into murdering everyone who dared to call her children bastards. Of course the person who was the instigator was Alicent but Aemond pushed the blame on Aegon instead. Then Aegon had a simple choice really either become a spacegoat for Alicent or risk contributing to his mother death. He chose option nr 1 which destroyed his relations with team black. To be honest Rhaenyra still could have somehow mend it by talking to him alone since it was obvious he was covering for Alicent... But she didn't care. A stupid decision really. Rhaenyra should have do every thing in her power to develop a positive relationship with Aegon if only for political reasons because without Aegon her opponents have no claims.

@@s1b3r11 Y’all green stans kill me. You can’t punish a six year old for maiming someone in defense of family. Aemond escalated the situation by bringing a rock into the fight and threatening to bash Jace’s head in. The point is that Alicent is a trash mom for putting that pressure on Aegon and poisoning him against his own nephews. They got along fine till she discouraged the relationship. It’s not up to Rhaenyra to be the one to fix the relationship between her and her brothers when Alicent and Otto were actively scheming against her. Do you honestly think Alicent would have allowed her to be alone with Aegon? After the eye debacle, she had to leave because her kids were in danger and the environment was toxic.

@@AlitaCain It's the black fanboys that are ridiculous. Aemond didn't bring the rock with him to attack others. He didn't even plan on meeting Rhaenyra's kids. It was them who ganged up on him 4 vs 1. It was them who attacked him and it was them who purposefully had taken daggers with them while Aemond didn't have a single weapon. I know that you think that as long as those are Rhaenyra's kids they can stab people in the face with no consequences and the victim should just stay silent but Aemond had every possible right to defend himself, while Rhaenyra's children were the perpetrators. It's thanks to Rhaenyra that the relationship was destroyed. Alicent may have put some pressure on Aegon before but even the show shows clearly that she was unsuccessful until that one particular scene. You know, the one when his brother almost dies but his father behaves like Aemond's life doesn't matter and therefore Aegon's doesn't matter too since they have same lineage. Rhaenyra and Viserys not only don't care, not only protect the perpetrators but also indirectly threaten to kill Alicent his mother which forces him to take the blame for her and this is how good relationship between him and Rhaenyra's children ends. Of course Rhaenyra could have still saved them if she tried to talk to him alone, but she just never did which was stupid. You say it's not up to her. But it IS. It was the best political move to do. "Do you believe Alicent would have allowed her to talk to Aegon?" Yes, obviously. Alicent was an absent mother who never cared about her children, it would have been extremely easy for Rhaenyra to talk with her brothers (or Aegon since at this point the any relations with Aemond was too destroyed) had she wanted. Alicent didn't even have to know. Besides Rhaenyra was much more important to Viserys than Alicent ever was, imagine if Alicent tried to stop Rhaenyra from talking to her siblings XDD If Rhaenyra only metioned Alicent stopping her to Viserys once, Alicent would have been in some serious troubles. Also her kids weren't in danger. Viserys was literally murdering people for telling the truth about their parentage... By leaving Rhaenyra just allowed her opponents to do whatever they please. Had she been smart, she would have tried to do everything in her power to safe her relationships with Aegon and Helaena since he one with Aemond was already destroyed

​@@AlitaCain y'all black stans kill me with the "Aemond had a rock!!!11" rhetoric. He was ambushed by four kids who started the fight (they pushed him first) and kept kicking him when he was on the ground. Four kids versus one! If I was in Aemond's place I would also use the rock to help myself.

@@Skrzacik So Aemond just got jumped for no reason? He didn’t do something inappropriate at a funeral of all places. You guys love to omit information. I know you’re gonna come back with the whole you can claim a dragon at anytime but just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. And I guarantee, if I had taken something that belonged to your deceased family member at their funeral, you would fight me about it too.

Just more proof that he wasn’t breed for this but forced into it. He was content with being Prince Aegon, brother of Queen Rhaenyra with no responsibilites-just wealth and status. He only folded after Alicent and Otto convinced him Rhaenyra would kill every Green to strengthen her claim to the throne.

With all of Otto and alicents sacrifices the end result they got is still this failure aegon. She hates that he represents everything she sacrificed her life and freedom for. And it's for nothing promising

@@mchllyin true. she only sees him as an investment, not her child

@@mchllyin No one is born to serve another's political ends. He didn't fail them. They failed him.

@@joelhenry5489 of course. But he is a failure in their eyes

IKR. The only one of her kids she actually sometimes shows affection for is Aemond, and he is a certified psycho.

She also hates the fact that Rhaenyra is the better mother than her despite never wanting children.

If she's all about following the rules, I'm just smh when she's got her kitty eaten by a Kingsguard at that, same Kingsguard who devirginized Rhaenyra...it's soooo weird for me.

So far Alicent has been sleeping with Ser Crispy even when he's supposed to be a Kingsguard lol, and so shortly after the death of the decrepit King. My theory seems like the two of them have been having a flirty-lookie-loo, before Viserys died. She might not sleep with Crispy when Viserys was alive but, I doubt that the two haven't been having any romantic attachment. Seeing how Alicent discreetly satisfied Ser Larys' foot fetish made me think this lol. Imo, Alicent is not as innocent/righteous/virtuous as she watns to believe.

​@@tracys169 I remember reading comments saying Alicent's and Cole's relationship was hinted at in season one. I definitely noticed it in Laena's funeral.

It's not just that she was jealous. Those kids being bastards, in her perspective and probably others if they were in that situation, should remove them from contention and strengthen her kids claims

@@SuperARCANGEL0 that's what shevtold herself to justify her jealousy. But those children were accepted by their Grandfather, the King. And they were Targaryen Dragon Riders. Alicent was not above the King. And he told her multiple times to drop it. In an alternate world Alicent and Otto should have lost their heads, just like Corlys' brother. The Kings command, was "Never question the legitimacy of Rhaenera's children." He made them the true successors of the throne. But he should have gone a step further and married his sons off to other houses, and removed them from Kings Landing and called Rhaenera back. But he was too sick and doped up.

@@SuperARCANGEL0 her kids had no claim. They stole it.

@@nebulanigrimleonis3883 @nebulanigrimleonis3883 " Not even myself am above customs and traditions Rhaenyra! " ~ Viserys. Customs and traditions say that Alicent shouldn't drop it and that Rhaenyra should at least face some consequences for treason. Jaehaerys, perhaps the greatest King ever in Westeros went trough a similar situation and he exiled his daughter. So in another world, Rhaenyra would at least have her claim removed.

@@nebulanigrimleonis3883 Dragon riders or not, they're still bastards. And they're not Targaryen dragon riders, they are Velaryon's. " The kids with no claim " are actually legimate Targaryens with legimate Targaryen heirs. If Jace ascend there would be a new Velaryon dinasty

And yet, they'd be 100% better for the realm than Aegon's drunk, rapey ass EVER could be! And at least Rhaenyra legitimized those boys by giving them the Velaryon House name too. She made them her heirs, AND it was all backed & supported by the previous king. Aegon's illegitimate kids are all being sent to DIE in underground fighting pits for children ffs! And it's crazy that Alicent found out about that... and did absolutely nothing about it, despite those kids technically being her grandchildren. Nah, Rhaenyra's boys absolutely stood a good chance of ruling one day, **IF** everybody would have kept their damn oaths, and did what they promised they'd do, which was to give Rhaenyra her birthright. Even IF it was contested that her oldest boys couldn't rule after her - her children with Daemon WOULD be fine. But regardless, it shouldn't have been a problem anyway, cuz once a child is given a household name & is made an heir... that's should be that! And nobody should be saying sh*t about it. That's why Cersei's kids were able to sit on the throne after Robert died, in Game of Thrones. Despite him not really being their father, King Robert had looked the other way & CLAIMED them anyway. Therefore they had the name of Baratheon, and that was good enough. Ned Stark only brought up the issue when he saw what a terrible little sh*t Joffery was, and, how wicked & incestuous his mother was too. So the Hightowers know that Rhaenyra's boys have been legitimized. They just don't CARE. lol Cuz let's be clear: even if those boys were truly Laenor's... it wouldn't matter! Otto Hightower had been planning to steal Rhaenyra's birthright from her for over 2 decades. Long before she had her boys. That's why he pimped his teenage daughter out to a 47yr old king. He was hoping Alicent would pop out a child who could replace Rhaenyra as heir. He was NEVER going to respect Vicerys' wishes & keep his vows to him. Bringing up who Rhaenyra's baby daddy was, is just something they can use to excuse all of the crimes they are committing. To excuse all of their scheming, oath breaking, and usurping. They are vile, power hungry people... and they would have done this to Rhaenyra no matter WHO her children's father was, believe that.

Nobody wins in the game of thrones

Without the hightowers and otto they would Have been fine ..

Honestly I will never understand why Rheanyra didn’t get one of the dragonseeds on Dragonstone to have children with. I would have never taken a such a risk. If she liked Harwin they could have been lovers with no children if she just took moon tea. After all the rumours Alicent started spreading about her and essentially declaring war at her damn wedding you would think Rheanyra would have wised up about her precarious situation but noooo!

​@Fictioncrazed Here's the thing considering all the dark haired Targaryens that will come later on the entire dark haired thing was completely idiotic. Especially when you consider that most of the boys grandparents and great grandparents had dark hair and well all know how strong Baratheon genes are. Had they kept the Velaryons black this wouldn't even be a problem.

To be fair to Alicent, Luke cutting Aemond’s eye out and Rhaenyra literally asking for Aemond to be questioned sharply aka tortured for an open secret did more to make Aegon and Aemond feel threatened by her and her sons than anything Alicent could’ve said to them. And while yes Alicent went the wrong way about it she absolutely should make her children aware of the threat Rhaenyra poses as Westerosi and Targaryan history shows that a good way to deal with rivals who could threaten your claim is to end them. And while Rhaenyra might not do it others on her side might for example Daemon.

@@islasullivan3463 Ok, But the seeds were sown before Luke sliced Aemond's eye. What's ironic now is the whole Aemond and Aegon dynamic when supposedly the "threat" was made out to be Rhaenyra. Inadverently teaching them you cant trust your siblings, ANY sibling with a claim to the throne.

​@@islasullivan3463by the way Luke was 6 at the time

^yeah I’m aware Luke was 6 at the time still doesn’t change that Rhaenyra threatened to have her 10 year old brother tortured for calling him a bastard.

@@islasullivan3463 are we talking about the same aemond that told them they would Have died like bastards threatening to Stone lucaerys' Brother to death ,what does rhaenyra shifting the blame have to do when alicent suggested for the heir of driftmark to Have his Eye taken ?

😅

You become a YT streamer pretending YT would be OK when you run the same vids on Twitch and Kick??? 🤣

You should also check out Ellebee she’s hilarious with her N.O. Accent

I just discovered Olurinatti, she's hilarious

@@lalauninterrupted2086 I watch her too!! I keep forgetting her username though so thank you cause I recommend her too

Yeah but that would’ve required Viserys to pay attention to Aegon and his other kids from Alicent.

Feel sorry for Aegon.... 🙄 The boy was ignored, not beaten, abused or mistreated! He was still raised as a Prince of the realm, with every indulgence of life he could ask for. He's a drunk, rapey lunatic. Sometimes I wonder if we're all watching the same show. 😐 lol He's got his illegimate kids dying down in underground fighting pits, like...???

I agree but I wouldn’t frame it as it’s all Alicent’s fault. Viserys was a terrible father even to the child he DID pay attention to. Otto and Viserys are the reasons the realm suffers the Dance of the Dragons.

Yeah, the whole ASOIF insertion hurts when a Targaryen didnt really mean anything for the White Walkers in GOT.

No monarchy would bring forth an even stronger set of wars as westeros civilians are not ready for voting or hidden Mason societies interacting with them

She was around 14 or 15 when she started talking to Viserys. VERY weird that your concern is that Alicent wanted to be Queen or not. Not a peep about Viserys being a super weirdo either

​@SuperARCANGEL0 never said he wasn't a weirdo. All of this is weird across the board that's obvious based on the time period. Like I said she wasn't a damn toddler. She was old enough to know what's going on and already knew an OBVIOUS WAY out of it and she did not take it. Otto did damage to her of course , and the system does damage on women across the board of course I never denied that. Go comment to someone who agrees with you and won't mind you making up shit.

​@@jasminejackson4877these folks are crazy trynna get at ppl for a fictional show all the while sounding detrimentally stupid

@@jasminejackson4877 You're still putting a strange level of responsibility on a underage girl who has been raised to obey her father and serve her house, instead of the grown weirdo (the King himself) who was having secret meetings with a 15\16 year old girl who was also his daughter's best friend. Teenagers aren't toddlers but for sure they aren't consenting adults. But yeah Rhaenyra and her throne and whatever.

@@SuperARCANGEL0Responsibility falls on everyone involved. Everybody down to even Rhaenyra and Alicent played a part in this sad inevitability, no matter how small. Alicent was young forsure but she was still grown enough to understand the implications of what was going on. Otto and Viserys are to blame as well, but had she been a real friend to the Rhaenyra and the Crown, she would’ve told her friend what Otto had planned. Instead she played the part Otto set for her, knowing how manipulative and power hungry he is, and not only forced herself on the king in his lonliness but also destroyed the very relationship between Rhaenyra and the only family left she had left. Not to mention, Rhaenyra came to her in order to stop the war and still she would do anything. I do hope since they changed her character a bit from the books, that she at least tries to put a stop to the war once she realizes she was wrong about Viserys decision… but rn she is shaping up to be just as hypocritcal and prideful as her father.

Preach my good women preach.

Agree with you for the most part but I think it’s confirmed that Aegon doesn’t know about his children in the fighting pits by the actor.

PREACH!!!!!!

where u think rapists come from? it’s not out of a vacuum. sure sometimes it’s not rly the parents fault but SOMETIMES IT IS, especially when no parental guidance is combined with extreme privilege and pressure. and it’s good to think abt why someone might become a rapist, so that, u know, if u have a kid u can know why to teach them abt consent (but also reinforce that with ur behaviors) like at this point the “BUT HES A RAPIST” crowd are just as tired as the “AEGON IS A SWEET CINNAMON ROLL” crowd. like yes. and if this was real life, jail. but this is a fictional series so maybe let’s dig deeper.

like it feels somewhat disingenuous or reductive to say “plenty of people have bad homes and they don’t rape people,” while ignoring the other potential factors that can go into forming a person: friends, religion, history, mental health, genetics (similar to mental health but diff), exposure, external forces. a better comparison maybe is cersei’s kids vs alicent’s kids, because joffrey, for instance, was a character with less nuance. there was no point in the series where u felt like he could have been redeemed or turned out a better person if he’d been raised better, because his siblings had the same parents and are very sweet kids. both sets of kids were raised with the same amount of privilege, and both had arguably bad parents (altho dare nobody say cersei didn’t love her childrennnn or whatever haha). but aegon, aemond, and helaena all ended up kind of fucked up. the common denominator being….

You're the first black I've seen that understands Aegon's character. Every time I see black followers they say that Aegon deserves all the misery.

Bc rhaenrya is viserys heir number one. When was she greedy for power? What? She didn't lie. She never slept with daemon. Team black isn't perfect but they r still not as bad as team green

@@themysticwarriorgal9465 🤦🏾‍♂️

@them she lied when she said her kids were her husband’s, regardless of the agreement between her and Laenor they are not his by blood, which is high treason. She did not sleep with Daemon yes, but she did lie that she was still a maiden, and that Daemon never touched her when he was the one who almost took her maiden hood.

Who? Rhaenyra’s kid or this Aegon.

in this show at least hes the second aegon. dont know about the books