A bank of many smaller capacitors tend to be cheaper than a single 10,000µF capacitor. Also, a big cap tends to take up a lot of vertical space, while a bank of smaller caps will take up a lot of horizontal space. So the dimensions of the box, and the space available on the circuit board plays a role here too. Plus, smaller capacitors will charge and discharge faster than a single large one. This improves transient response time - basically, the speed in which current can flow in and out the capacitor to the rest of the unit. The faster this current can flow, the less the signal is distorted when there is a sudden, high current demand, and the sooner the caps can recover after being depleted (or nearly so). This results high frequencies sounding better at high volumes, and bass notes retaining their "punch" at high volumes. But every capacitor has leakage. This is a tiny amount of current lost within the capacitor. No capacitor is perfect. And when we add a bunch together, we add up the leakage. So we use special capacitors with low leakage - but slightly more expensive. And using capacitors rated at double the voltage for their intended use also lowers leakage - again, more expensive. Thus, a 35v application would use a 70v capacitor to minimize leakage. Cheap engineers and/or manufacturers will use caps at or near their rated voltage to save money. Too much leakage, can reduce the voltage available to the unit, reduce efficiency, and reduce the life span of the caps themselves. Also, each cap has a tiny chance of failure at any given time. So a large bank of many small caps increase that chance of failure by the number of caps. Sometimes you will find a small cap in parallel with a large cap. This small cap is called a bypass cap. It's there to handle those fast transients (high notes at high volume) while the big cap handles the bulk of the current demand. it's not as effective as a bunch of small caps, but the failure rate is far less, and it takes up less real estate on the circuit board. You may notice that some boards have all kinds of free real estate, while others are crammed with electronic components.
This absolute explains why my JL hd1200.1 amp has so much more punch than my previous infinity k1000. Both used the same input signal and keeping same settings it sounded so much more punchy.
High voltage caps have a much higher ESR than lower voltage ones so you will more of them. Using caps rated at higher temperature and voltage drastically improves their lifetime (doubles for each 10deg below their rating)
Wish there was distortion, intermodulation, and also more circuit layout discussion like we get on ASR forums. Parallel caps have lower ESR than usually can be achieved in a single larger can. I think Panasonic doesn’t even make large value snap-in capacitors anymore.
@@Geoff240ti well full disclosure I used to work for JL so have only repaired JL amps but the class ab rockford amps and audio control amps look interesting as well. As for subs though I love my JL 10W7 and that has nothing to do with my history, its just a really smooth, deep and musical sub 👍
Good looking PCB. From my understanding, an array of smaller caps will have for plate and terminal surface area than fewer large caps. This can ensure faster current delivery as well as power and heat dissipation.
He used a sketchy designed subwoofer. Basically a novelty subwoofer, that he previously damaged and cob-job repaired. The sub had a dead short, from it rubbing the top plate under heavy load the first time he "tested" it and the spider lifted. Sub died, and killed the amp. It happens, and could happen to any amp..full or half bridge. Parker isn't the best, at doing actual tests and or reviews most of the time. But he's entertaining.
@@Bassotronics that amp that caught on fire is a common amp sold on Alibaba. Just rebadged. Now, on that same note, the Teampie amplifiers are also sold on Alibaba unbadged with the option of branding it with your own brand if you purchase like 5,000 units. EMF audio , along with many others all use the same amp with their own branding on them.
Oddly enough back in the 90s when I was big into this stuff, you were expecting to pay $1 per watt, for real world clean power. At least in Canadian dollars anyway, which at the time was about 35% less than USD. I do like that JL hasn't sold out it's brand and turned it into garbage.
Many smaller caps will have a lower ESR resulting in faster and higher current capabilities. Also, you can distribute the current across more conductor with many smaller caps to distribute (heat) current load across more conductor, resulting in better cooling.
I have been using my XD400/4v1 and two XD600/1v1 amps for 15 years now. They have never had an issue and always sounded great. It's great when you get what you pay for, quality and reliability.
The smaller capacitors that are tall rather that wide, this has a better geometry to reduce inductance in the capacitor, ESL (effective series inductance) . As a result they can transfer current better at high frequencies. Since the power supply switches at tens of kilo hertz, this is beneficial since it can deliver power with minimal impedance. The effective ESR (effective series resistance), this has to be low to minimize heat generated in the capacitor, this is stated as you can see on the capacitor "Low ESR", this not always the case.
Im glad that the Brands like JL and RF are still around showing the world what engineering looks like. Beyond reliability and quality. There is predictability. You can depend that their ratings are pretty solid and makes it easy to choose the correct speakers to pair. Most blown speakers these days occur. Because some Korean, off the shelf amp, with no real regulation was used. Then they set their gains the "Reddit" way and clip the signal. Pop even more subs.
Had 2 of these amps die at the same time in a build. Power supplies both went down virtually simultaneously. Very surprised. No apparent reason why. Was told this is not uncommon under prolonged low voltage conditions- which were seemingly not the issue on this particular build. Not sure if that’s accurate or not. Owner repaired at $400/each and have been fine since. A couple lemons maybe? Nothing against JL. They’re okay. Basically the Apple of the mobile/marine market though. Price to performance ratio is sub par at best.
You can never expect even the best amps to survive if someone with no knowledge of decent electrics keeps beating on them…All amps will die eventually under those conditions..
@@justkiddin1980 That’s presumptive, but again, since repair there have been no issues with either amp. Going on nearly 2 years since repairs without change in the electrical system (which consisted of HO alt and Northstar AGMs) or non-abusive listening habits.
"Basically the Apple of the mobile/marine market though." Which is why I buy Audiopipe amplifiers for my vehicles. They make their rated power and are not overpriced.
I really don't mind not seeing it blow away the rated power. For ppl not competing in an amp class it makes the most sense to just know what you're getting. These days without a Big D video you might not know if an amp does half or double it's rated power
Gone are the days of the J.C. Whitney catalog where you were pretty much 100% guaranteed what you were getting was no more than 10% the advertised power - or less. So many of us were so uninformed back before the internet.
@@jdlech At least in Europe there are still some brands that claim 1000+W for something like a 2x50W puny thing. In the worst case (Auna) even less power and even more bloated numbers, like 6000 or even 10 000W (6 channels and a bit over 400 W total at 13,5 V and 1 % distortion) and one example (Auna AMP CH 02) that is marketed 1400 W max and has 34 W of total power, or the AB-650, 4800 W max, actual power 96 watts total to SIX channels! Technically they can be compared to something like 80's boomboxes as the amp chip(s) run straight from the 12 volts.
One thing JL Audio always provides is super clean and deep sounding bass, especially when you pair their amplifiers with their subwoofers. I always enjoyed the tonality and accuracy of JL equipment. The numbers on the amp dyno don't really address that (SQ) aspect, but it's very important, and its why they are justified in asking a higher price, imho.
"Fire in the hole" is an excellent catchphrase, and you should be dropping that line before the start of your Dyno test every video. Made me laugh so hard!
20 years ago I would have bought two of those amps, a couple of W7 subs, mids and a matching 300/4. All after spending a couple of hours at my favorite stereo shop killing time with friends and installers. Now I just putz around with my untouched factory stereo doing boring adult stuff.
I had that Amp. Played it in the Arizona summer 110+ degrees windows down no ac. on 3 JL audio w6v3s. Max volume. No issues, never overheated once in 4 years. Sold it for a more powerful amp
Great comment sir. That’s fantastic to hear. The gentlemen who engineered this amplifier live and work in Phoenix. They are acutely aware of real world temps in cars, in the summer, in Phoenix. (I know this because I work with them)
The smaller caps have a few pros. Reliability, life expectation is higher. Better temp stability. Reduce fire hazard IF one fails. Lower internal inductance for a faster response. Cons Cost more the higher price of a single cap is generally less then the combined cost of 3 or 4 smaller caps plus most caps are installed and soldered by hand so more costs with more assembly. Board trace layout and space. When placing multiple round cans you take up dead space between them. Batch control Generally you want all the caps together to be from the same batch or match esr and inductance so they share the load evenly.
I believe many amps who aim for quality still have amps that are only 2 ohm or even 4 ohm stable in bridged mode. I do believe the higher impedance is better for SQ in my opinion.
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. These are a pricey item & they are not giving any breaks. Quoted 1800.00 for a vx800/8i, and not a dollar less, even after trying to haggle for an hour or so. I bounced. It appeared to be an impressive amp, that sounded great.
@@TheTecatemn I bought mine four years ago from Crutchfield for $899.99. I may have been turned on for a total of eight hours since then. It sits in a hall closet now with two JL Audio 300/1v2 amps.
1000 at 2 ohm is not bad. Would be a decent single 12 inch setup. Thinking back I always saw these amps used in installs that for example, a friend of mine who does not work on cars, went to a shop and just had a single 10 inch system installed with the custom made boxes they sold designed for each model of car to fit in spare tire spaces or where the jack would normally be. It would always be an alpine head unit, a CD changer, a JL audio amplifier, those custom boxes and a JL audio sub either 10 or 12 inch class. I remember the one in my buddies firebird was a 10 inch JL in a sealed custom box that came out to be just under one cu ft stuffed with poly fill.
The fixed frequency subsonic is the worst thing about it, in my opinion. It really would make it so that you'd have to build a ported enclosure with that in mind. On an amp of that cost, it should certainly be variable.
Big "D" always rocks and well worth it! The amps, well, that's why we have you, to help us out and everyone has their preferences! Just crank that puppy up and let's rock! 🔈🔉🔊🍻❤️🌎
Hey WA Lab… I wanted to see if you can either answer or both answer and show amps that have best efficiency. By efficiency, I mean amps that do not tax an car’s electrical system too much, and would/could possibly perform well without huge power output upgrades. Many of the amps you show with decent power take so much amperage to run, that an 100-150amp alternator would barely put out to keep up with most of those 1k amps. And since most newer car’s electrical systems are really sensitive to voltage spikes and drops, that would be a cool series to help people that want to bump & retain an unmolested factory electrics- or mildly upgraded ones that just need a cap or additional battery. Cheers
Armchair EE nerd here. Electrically, the equivalent series resistance ("ESR") of a capacitor is a big reason why a choice would be made between giant bulk capacitors and an array of smaller ones (as JL has). Just like with the woofers when paralleled, more small capacitors will have a lower ESR, allowing the capacitor array to handle a much bigger peak power draw, as one would see with a thundering subwoofer in a typical music application. There are other considerations as well: -Heat dissipation (more capacitors = more surface area for cooling) -Space usage -Cost of bulk capacitor vs. capacitor array I don't think any of those are a major concern for JL Audio in this application, because: -The enclosed housing and cluster of capacitors wouldn't do much for dissipating heat from the capacitors -They clearly have plenty of space -JL seems to consistently prioritize quality over cost. (I do too.) Thanks for covering, Big D. 👍
Comments are funny 😂. ANY amp can be blown. Jl isn't a Chinese alibaba catalog amp. They have been in the game a long time. And more geared towards the sq crowd or people that just want a little bump. Had the og w6's back in the day. And numerous pairs ov w6 v2's and v3's. Jl will always have my respect.
I don’t know about the mono XD1000, but the sub channel is definitely regulated on my XDM1000/5 channel on the sub output. It’ll do 600 watts just for the sub channel at both 12.5V up to 14.4v
JL Audio has always been a company that delivers well-thought-out, well-designed and reliable products. And these things shouldn't be cheap. The question is whether it can compete on price with European or Japanese amplifiers. If we talk about real SQ, I will always choose a European or Japanese amplifier for not powerful (60-80 watts per channel) 4-channel amplifier for midranges and tweeters. As for subwoofers or subwoofer monoblocks, JL Audio has succeeded in this. Thank you for your test and review.
@@poohwecampbell7799 I'm actually talking about sound quality and not about SPL. I'm pissed off by cars that can hear bass from half a mile away. Well, to each his own. In terms of sound quality, JL Audio does a great, right bass.
The multiple small value capacitors equal lower impedance, which equals releases the energy quicker with less loss. This was pioneered by Peter Stein of ME Sound in Australia.
I had the small 250 watt mono JL amp on a single dual voice coil 8” and it was awesome!! GREAT headroom, never got hot, and never heard the sub distorting due to the power. They make some great amps, but are DEFINITELY overpriced.
A caps tolerance is typically plus or minus 5%. The bigger your cap the bigger your tolerances need to be. By using smaller caps you can tighten your electrical tolerances.
Using many smaller capacitors in parallel instead of few big ones lowers the ESR (equivalent series resistance) of the capacitor circuit helping with dynamic current delivery.
multiple caps in parallel allows for less resistance.....but can cost more. but each situation is unique (obviously) -JL amps are extremely well designed and very high quality.. anyone who bashes on them has no idea what they are talking about (unless its about price! LOL)
Because it's sound quality you're buying, not SPL output. And these amps are tanks when properly powered. Seen plenty running just fine after 12-15 years.
@smellsuperb1 there other amp that coast less that last just as long when properly used and im positive 90 percent of people aren't going to be able to hear this and say I can tell that it's a JL audio I can hear the sound quality difference . JL good but in my opinion way over priced on a. Lot of there models and most people that are willing to pay way more for some of there models are paying just because of the name like the w7 there cost per sub for the material under 300$ the other 700- 1200$ your pay depending on when and exact model for the name patient and tooling for JL not because the quality that much more. money then any author sub out there again my opinion from what I've seen and if the are so much better you wouldn't see quite a bit of them damage and selling dirt cheap on ebay compared to normal what it originally cost 💯👊👍✌️😉
@@josephsaucedo8691 you're confusing perceived value with actual value. Using FB marketplace as your guide is misleading, bc you're only telling one side of the equation. Also, some people are just selling things out of desperation, they're not concerned about market value. I currently have a car audio store and I've been selling car audio for almost 30 years on and off. JL Audio holds value better than any other US-based brand and I have the sales records to prove it. JL isn't using off-the-shelf motherboards and capacitors, their higher end amps are bespoke. Again, it's not an SPL brand. SQ or SQL, yes definitely. And for every brand that can do similar for a lower price, you have others that can be much more costly (Focal, Audison, Mosconi, Braxton, Morel, etc etc). I'm never going to tell anybody what they should spend, but I will absolutely tell them best overall value for their long-term dollar. And if that happens to be JL for their application I'm going to tell them. You can get better performance from a modern 6-cyl twin turbo Toyota than a 1970 Chevelle SS LS6, but the Chevelle guy isn't wrong for wanting a muscle car.
Love the content and JL! I have had JL Amps, Subs and speakers. It would be cool to see a Slash 1200 on the dyno! Do you still daily a 10w6? This amp would push it quite nicely!
I had the best Pawn shop find a JL HD1200/1 for $200. It looked brand new so I bought with a 15 day warranty. When I got home I noticed the Power, ground remote plug was missing. I ordered one hooked it up and the amp works perfectly!!
i had jl subs when they first came out in the 90's on a fogate power 300........used to eat punch series subs, the jl's just kept going and going......
i noticed that too, im not really sure what warrants going this route over the rd1000/1. i have installed both, and i cant tell the difference for some things
Dunno about this xd line but the HD 1200 is the best I’ve heard. Put up against a taramps 5k and even at same volume or louder the JL is just more detailed. I really tried to make the taramps good enough but it just can reproduce the detail like JL can
The reason I can come up with off the top of my head for using smaller capacitors just faster charge faster discharge with less heat than the larger capacitors. I think the larger capacitors can handle The higher temps were longer and probably the thermal cycles better. I am not an electrical engineer but I do have a understanding of physics and that is my conclusion and nothing more.😊
My friend, check out a hybrid battery/capacitor Hi-Fi Vega did a review on recently... If you have a few free minutes.... It was cool and almost seemed to defy pesky things like physics lol It was sweet though and reasonable price! New technology is awesome! So is old school though! Can't underestimate the OG stuff that got us here 😁🍻❤️🎶 Now, crank that puppy up! P.S. - I apologize I hadn't finished the video yet and I was thinking of external capacitors, but still, if interested, check it out and have a wonderful day!
smaller capacitors with the same total capacitance of a larger cap do not recharge faster or have better thermals. there are caps, big and small that have the same temperature rating. the main advantage to using lots of small caps vs. a few bigger ones would be lower esr (resistance across the cap), handle higher ripple current, and better high frequency rejection.
@@bensonak47 The only reason I brought up the thermal capacitance wasn't the rating but the volume of mass more mass you have the more he can take at a longer period of time before it degrades. And I understand the ripple effect that's what I mean by charging and recharging the cycles are less affected in the smaller capacitors. All things have thermal detegration and usually the slower the Thermo cycles the log or something will last.
The large and few vs small and many...well here's a few reasons: 1. Smaller caps can be arranged in a way that can be an advantage to the board layout, kinda like filling a box with sand instead of rocks - you could fit in MORE 2. Lower overall ESR - effective series resistance. The lower you can bring this number (in milliOhms for switching supplies) the better the filtering and less heat. Even though large caps have the advantage of being lower in ESR overall compared to same capacitance smaller ones they get expensive if low ESR caps are chosen - the smaller caps tend to be cheaper in that sense as they are much more mass produced 3. An ounce of reliability - if the caps to fail, at least there are still some that will still work...if it were just two or three of them that would be trouble As for using large caps it is almost idiot proof, but certain good practices in board layout and design are not fully met. One example is having the caps as close as possible to the rectifier, smaller caps could fit in ahead in that example than large cans.
I've owned 4 JL amps (2 of 'em being V1 500/1 that are still working) and they were all pretty darn good, but I really don't think they'll get any more money outta me. Nothing personal, just think I can get more for the money.
My buddy had the old version 1000.d that he cranked all day long. That thing would get warm and that's it. It powered 2 kicker comp r 12's. Not the most powerful, but you probably won't blow it
In general 1 per watt is the bar and has been for 20+ years in my book. That's just a very general rule of thumb that's rare to go wrong. That obviously changes the more you understand audio. Love the videos big d! Stay cool
@alconyers2003 no I'm definitely not saying that. That's old technology, depending on how old you are that was the height of technology 20 years ago and was the same price, we didn't have those options. So what I'm saying is that this is something that someone buys that has more money than brains nowadays. Now there's so many options it makes me jealous, I can barely keep up. Now big box brands aren't even on my radar.
1$ per watt was always my rule of thumb and expected over the past 30 years or so. But I also remember getting Orions the size of surf boards back then. Amp tech has definitely come a long way, but I do still wonder if the audio quality is the same now as it was back then, or if all people care about nowadays is just pushing the subs, and audio quality comes second.
It’s crazy that I never think of JL as an amplifier company even tho the slash amps are some of the best selling amps of all time. Great video as always
Though i myself do not use any JL audio stuff i can say sometimes the high end priced stuff does last. I have a buddy with a rockford t1500.1 that has been pounding away for sooo many years now without a care in the world.
I thought this was going to be an amp from the mid 2000's based on it's size, looks, 2ohm load and regular rca's. I didn't realize it was an amp that was actually currently for sale. It just appears a bit dated and doesn't seem like it has enough features to warrant it's price tag other than implied quality.
@@Thezuule1 JL simply cost more : Products designed, researched, development, tested, quality control all in house by JL engineers & many of it hand built. Unlike many copy cat brands : No engineer department Only copy & paste Rebranding rebadging using cheaper parts mass production minimized quality control It's like eating a great steak at an expensive restaurant vs. a hamburger from McDonald's ect ect Your gonna remember both experiences but only one was good How they're doing is relevant : Gives consumers choices
JL Audio made some of the absolute best subs back in the day. I had two JL 15s in my Explorer on a chrome Kenwood 1600 watt amp with two watt gauges on the front and it SLAMMED those 15s. I could put a full Coke can on the roof and bounce it 6' in the air on some Trick Daddy joints.
I know it's hard to get excited about an amp like this but I have been stuck on JL audio for almost 20 years now. I won't spend good money on another brand.
